It's been a while since I participated in this conversation so thought I'd rejoin the party!
Welcome back!
I've never really seen Flack not telling Danny that Lindsay was concerned as being terribly significant. I certainly don't think Lindsay should have used Flack as a go between in order to relay that message to Danny. Not that I'm saying she did that, but I do think by that time she had probably lost all ability to communicate directly with Danny on a personal level. Thinking about the whole Flack thing, I wonder if he just didn't want to get involved in anything other than supporting Danny. It's likely that Flack knew things were not great between him and Lindsay and it's also likely that he saw that as something they needed to sort out between them. Even relaying Lindsay's concern may have felt too involved for his liking. I also wonder if Flack saw how close Danny was getting to Rikki while trying to support her and could envisage the train wreck that was coming and wanted to keep his distance from that!
That's a fair point. I can see Flack leaving Danny's personal life for him to sort through. Flack seemed to make what happened in that episode about him and Danny and not anything external, which fair enough--Flack was the one who chased Danny all over town and risked his neck for Danny. Who Danny is sleeping with or doing whatever with is Danny's business, and Flack would respect that.
As for the whole timeline thing it's hard to say for certain that Danny and Lindsay were okay during any of the Ruben story arc. I really don't believe that the time in the morgue was the only time Lindsay reached out to him. The fact she turned to Mac for advice on what to say to Danny (bad move imo), then moved to leave in the direction that Danny went was a pretty strong indicator that she certainly intended to talk to him. It's very likely that if she did take Mac's advice and tell him that she wasn't very good at 'this sort of thing' then Danny may well have seen that as a brush off, particularly if that was her only attempt. I struggle to believe that Lindsay wouldn't have at least attempted to talk to Danny again, if she didn't there's little point to her conversation with Mac and her asking what to say to him.
I think she intended to, but I think Lindsay may have been putting it off. If she'd been hellbent on talking to Danny then, she wouldn't have stopped to talk to Mac. And as much as I think what they said to each other was honest, I think Lindsay kind of felt let off the hook a little bit. Mac isn't good at dealing with Danny either (he's better than he thinks he is, actually, and certainly better at it than Lindsay is), so Lindsay kind of found a kindred spirit on the issue in that moment.
But, I do think that any attempt on her part was minimal and likely to be clumsy e.g. 'I'm not very good at this sort of thing' which Danny may have interpreted as 'I'm not the best person to be there for you so get back to me when you've sorted it out'.
Yeah, I could see that if she did go and say that to him, he'd take it as a form of rejection or her saying, "I don't want to deal with you now. Take it to someone who can." Which isn't what she meant, but how insecure Danny would take it.
I honestly think Lindsay backed off from him because she genuinely believed he needed his space to deal with things. It seemed as though she really didn't know how to handle him which isn't a surprise as he's so unlike her with emotional fallout. While she clams up he bleeds all over the place. At the time I wondered if she had been so closed off that she just didn't know him that well, but now I think she did know him and that's what probably scared her - she knew she couldn't really deal with his raw emotion. She'd only seen it from a distance before e.g. RSRD and since then he'd been the strong one for her.
I can see that. She was giving him what she would have needed, not what he needed. But if she really knew him, she would know he needed the support and to talk about it--in which case she took the coward's way.
As for her birthday. It's pretty obvious that Danny forgot because of everything else that had been going on. It also supports the theory that they weren't spending much time together at that point. As for Lindsay being pissed that he forgot I always saw that as being so much bigger than a forgotten birthday. I suspect that Lindsay had seen it as a sign that his distance from her had grown from 'needing space' in her mind to suddenly being so far away that she had the first indicator that he may not return. I also think that's where the lunch invitation in RND was the final straw for her, where she felt she was putting herself on the line and he'd rejected her again.
Agreed... for Lindsay it was much more, a sign of how their relationship was devolving. Danny took it literally--she was mad he forgot her birthday. Good point about the lunch being the final rejection, though again, I can't help but come back to her needing to reach out to him in an apparent way--"I want to be there for you"--rather than going about it the way she did, in ways that could be misinterpreted.
I appreciate that tptb have indicated that they weren't an actual couple during the Ruben arc but that's never really been explained well enough for me not to see Danny's actions as a sort of betrayal. That's not to say I blame him for it because I don't. I understand that he was seeking and giving comfort and he'd not received any comfort from Lindsay. I just can't bring myself to blame Lindsay for that either. I really do see them as screwed up and damaged as each other, albeit in very different ways.
I do think Lindsay's inability to be there for him pushed him away, and I think it just highlights why they're not good for each other. Ultimately, their problems add up to bad communication, which they've never bridged, even now that they're married and have a child.
There's no doubt that their problems have been glossed over to bring family Messer to the fore in S5. That's probably the most frustrating thing of the season. But, I guess it does give tptb a lot of fodder to draw another wedge between them further down the line. I'm really hoping not, as I'd like to see them learning to communicate with each other better. One of the good things of S5 was that Lindsay seemed to be more understanding and accepting of Danny and his beliefs/faults. What I'd like to see now is a little more exploration into Lindsay's faults and Danny calling her out on them. We'll see.
I would very much like to see that as well!
Yeah, I remember her telling Flack that same thing about calling him, and he didn't pick up. It's true that offscreen assumptions are really tricky (it's impossible to therefore tell what really went on). But I don't know, I always assumed Danny knew about the covered shift because that was the only way I could explain his renewed friendliness with her in Playing With Matches (especially when coupled with her initial sullenness in that same episode).
Maybe, though I don't think Danny was ever unfriendly to her (except for when he confronted her in RND)--reserved maybe, but Danny is a pretty warm guy.
Very true - but even Danny demanded to know why she "needed" him to take the mother in Oedipus Hex, and like you said, he tends to be a doormat when it comes to Lindsay's random whims. I can believe Lindsay would've found it hard to bring up, but I still have to believe she at least asked why she had to do a double-shift for him.
Possibly, but she might have done it in a way that seemed confrontational, which would have led him to try to brush it off or diffuse the situation in one way or another. Unless she sat him down and said, "I need to know what's going on with you," which I think we can safely say she didn't, it seems to me that it's likely whatever conversation happened between them wasn't very meaningful or deep. They communicate very badly.
Well okay, but I thought that scene made it clear how Lindsay's irritation/anger was not about her birthday at all (the sad way she looked at him after he left?). I know she brought it up, but that whole birthday exchange really sounded like Lindsay was at least as unsurprised as I was about Danny missing her birthday. He was grieving, but I can't really see him remembering her birthday even if Ruben was still alive.
I do, however, think (agree, I guess) that Danny thought she was just mad about her birthday, and it honestly didn't occur to him that she might be mad about anything else - he basically said so in RND. Which, yeah, might explain why he skipped lunch. It's much of what drew me to the conclusion that he didn't take Lindsay seriously once she became his girlfriend, because he might have his reasons for thinking Lindsay was self-centered, but I really think he gave her more credit back in seasons 2 and 3.
He did give her more credit back in seasons two and three, but I can see why that kind of eroded during season four. Here he is in his time of need, and his girlfriend--who he was so supportive of and good to in season three before they were even dating--can't be bothered to return the favor. Danny probably did think less of her seeing her not reaching out to him. I think that's why part of the reason he did want to get back together with her, or at least be on good terms again--he realized she actually cared about him.
I saw concern, yeah, but I definitely saw tension too - it wasn't just the scene in the police station; if it had just been that, then I would've seen it as levelling, but he also seemed kind of hostile to Stella when he and Danny found her coming out of the Professor's house, which is why I drew the conclusion that he was still irritated over the Angell thing.
I didn't notice that--just intensity coming off of Flack. I might have to go back and re-watch that scene! I think he was also surprised to find her there.