Re: CSI:NY Spoiler Discussion - Bring on Season 6!
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy though, and if Danny believes it's him (which I think he does), he probably think it's inevitable that it will end that way. And he had more at stake with Lindsay, who was both a colleague and a friend. It wasn't about the extra effort--he truly couldn't see it ending any other way. Even now, Danny still doesn't quite seem to believe that they're really together, and they're married.
I know! The fact that they're married now is what makes it downright creepy. If Danny believes he's the problem, thus thinks it will inevitably end in his being dumped....well then, it just seems like the logical choice would be to
not go down the road in the first place. Leave it at the hookup. I'm not sure Lindsay wouldn't have been hurt by just being a hookup, but I do think she would have gotten over it faster. I know it's not the typical-guy response, but I really can't see that as being a good excuse for what really seems to be flat-out lack of compassion.
Instead they're married. He's thinking there'll be no other way for this to end except by her leaving him - which is probably going to lead to him leaving her first, like he did before. (Which may be understandable, but isn't any fairer to Lindsay than her always thinking the worst about him is fair to him.) Only now there's Lucy involved and he has Lindsay actually believing (or at least hoping) that he loves her. And when she finds out he doesn't, she's not going to handle it that well emotionally, either. How is this not the quick road to divorce?
If he doesn't think he has anything of value to add, how can anyone be hurt by him not putting himself out there? I think that's his take on it.
Yeah, I can see this being his take on it. I think what gets me more is that people
are hurt by him not putting himself out there. I can't believe that Lindsay is the first.
Only when she was coming on to him at work or trying to get overly affectionate. I don't think he was ever disrespectful or dismissive of her when they were just working together. It was when she tried to cross the boundaries he'd set up... much in the way she was with him in season three.
Yes. He was great with her when they were just being casual and friendly at work, just like he's always been. They were great when they were friends. It's when the more personal aspect of their relationship came up that he always seemed to pull back. Their being at work makes it harder to say whether
that was the factor in his pulling-back, or whether that was just a natural pattern in their relationship. But honestly, I remember the first time I watched DOA for a Day, I wasn't the least bit surprised that Danny had forgotten Lindsay's birthday, because that seemed consistent, in keeping with his part in their relationship during S4. I was more sympathetic, because I knew he was grieving. But if Lindsay's birthday had been during Boo, or one of the other earlier episodes, I don't think he would've remembered it anyway.
Perhaps if season four was all she had to go off of, but he showed nothing but concern for her in season three. He sent mixed messages about their relationship, but he never implied he didn't care about her as a person.
Yeah, but a lot of that S3 concern only seemed to come when Lindsay was someone that was definitely unattainable to Danny - a lot of it disappeared once Danny already had her. And by S5 he'd ...already had her. I know this probably wasn't Danny's thought process, but I can totally see how Lindsay might've seen things that way. I still see things that way, though I have the luxury of not being directly involved, and so can take into account Danny's massive insecurity. I wouldn't be surprised if Lindsay couldn't. She seems to be the one most frequently hurt by this insecurity.
Yeah, exactly. She only wanted to try because she was in love with Danny and was invested in him on that level. She couldn't not want to try because of her feelings, but it wasn't something she was comfortable with or relished doing. And I'm sure Danny, as sensitive as he is, picked up on that reluctance--and shied away from it.
Yeah, but I don't think that was a good enough reason to shy away. Which I guess is why I see them both as equally culpable. She didn't do everything she could to try, possibly because on some level she didn't want to. But Danny more than anyone should know a) that Lindsay's reluctant with emotional things just in general, and b) it's not easy to relish wanting to get into those messy, emotional things. Because Danny's not exactly the go-to guy for emotional help, either. One thing I've noticed - and I think I've seen this in an interview somewhere, though I'm not sure which one - is that it's always Flack who's there for Danny, we rarely if ever see the reverse. And it was emphasised in Pay Up. It was very obvious that Danny felt bad for Flack, but at the hospital it looked like the last thing he knew how to do was help him. And so he was wary of trying. I think the most supportive thing I saw him do during that episode was the pat on Flack's back at the end. He may be the most emotional character, but I think he's at least as successful as Lindsay is when it comes to giving emotional support.
ETA: Sorry, I know I should rephrase that last line. He's good at giving emotional support to Lindsay. Not really anyone else, as far as I've seen.
More likely they just didn't know what to say. Danny's comment about that just proves what a big open wound he was during that time--he was constantly aware of it, and if he was totally unwilling to talk, he wouldn't have made that comment. Lindsay can bottle up her feelings for the most part, but Danny has never been capable of that. I still don't feel he brushed Angell off so much as he didn't know what else to say.
I guess Mac and Angell might not have known what to say. But I found it telling, because if that was the case, then none of the people on this team really know how to help with emotional problems. And you'd think that would make Danny shy away from them, too, but he didn't. (Which would also mean he was basically turning to everyone but Lindsay.) So I can't think he made that comment wanting to talk - I think he was just referring to what happened, as a way of blowing off steam and emotion, maybe. I don't think he expected them to say anything, and I don't think Mac and Angell ever would have.
I think it's probably safe to assume she found out about the trial that day...but she still could have cancelled the date rather than just leaving him hanging. It was cruel. I think she subconsciously did want his attention or else why not downplay it? Why do something so outrageous that he has no choice but to confront her?
I think the fact that she forgot to cancel was supposed to emphasize the trauma of the trial - I think Danny probably would've confronted her anyway, even if she had called to cancel (because during his speech at the end of the episode, he didn't mention the date once). Danny did ask her if her "phone wasn't working" when they were at the scene, and she apologized - it didn't sound like it made her look good in his eyes. So talk about a misfire, if she did it to get his attention.
Oh, I agree completely about him taking the wrong approach, but this is insecure, needy Danny. He probably saw it as the only approach. As for Lindsay taking the baby from him--I don't know that it wasn't a real possibility. I can totally see where he's coming from on that. She didn't even want to tell him about the baby in the first place, which in his eyes said she was reluctant to have him be a part of the child's life. To Danny, that was a rejection of him, especially coupled with the "I know you" comment. Why wouldn't she think the baby might be better off without him in its life if she really thinks so little of him (at least in his mind)? Keep in mind, this is all being filtered through his massive insecurities.
Yeah, but considering Lindsay's filter when it comes to Danny doesn't make her behaviour any less harsh to him. I can see totally see why she misjudged him when she said "I'm not expecting anything", but I do think she misjudged him. Similarly, I can see the filter Danny was thinking through - over the top, but that's kind of characteristic for him - he was all "she'll take Lucy and never come back if I don't give her a reason to stay". But it was still a misjudgement of Lindsay, and kind of cruel, considering he used the one thing he knew was guaranteed to make her stay. Her feelings for him, which he already knew for a fact she had.
I'm pretty sure she has, like in the episode where they were at the black tie gala (blanking on the name at the moment!).
Oh yeah, I remember what episode you're talking about. The moment in his new girlfriend's apartment, right, where Stella was all "she's going to get all kinds of invitations to the in parties" - or something?
I think Flack is way too healthy to put up with what Danny did from Lindsay--he'd never go for that.
Exactly.:hugegrin: It's a healthier start already, and I think Lindsay honestly needs someone to tell her right away that if she wants a relationship, she has to want it all right from the start. She can't just decide she wants some parts of it one week, and then not want any of it for the next couple months,
then decide she wants all of it (emotions and everything), and then get pissed off because the guy suddenly doesn't want all of it.
Lindsay's part in the D/L mess is very in keeping with her character. I just wish they didn't need the D/L mess to be a part of it.
I don't think Flack would put up with it for a second, but I really think Lindsay needs that. (Or she would, if she wasn't into self-destructive relationships.) Additionally, Flack has a degree of reserve to his character that isn't in Danny's, but is very reminiscent of the reserve in Lindsay's.I don't think there would be as much emotional yo-yo-ing.
Danny was clearly hurt--dragging him anywhere wasn't a good idea, and Flack seemed to know it. If Flack had thought moving Danny was a good idea, he would have picked him up. :lol:
Lol, I'd've been up for seeing that
I doubt Flack knew everything Lindsay put Danny through, but I'm sure he knew she cared about him. At that point, I still think Flack's comment about Danny revealed more about his deep concern for Danny than it did about what he thought about Lindsay. He was too worried not to say anything.
If he was just venting his worries, he could've vented to one of the other members of his SWAT team. I do think Flack's comment revealed a lot about how concerned he was for Danny, but I still found it a little touching that he knew Lindsay would be just as concerned. That he thought so at all doesn't speak to resentment or rivalry, in my eyes. It seems to me if he actually resented her or saw her as a rival, he'd probably try to downplay her feelings, especially given what happened in S3.
I've always been under the impression that Flack knew a lot about what was going on between Lindsay and Danny (because, best friend, and even Hawkes seemed to know).