Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[Kimmychu]

:lol: Okay, more info on the 'listen to Det. Lindsay Monroe' thing ... season four of CSI:NY has just started airing on a cable channel where I am right now. I knew something was up when every episode promo featured Lindsay at least twice when previous seasons never had that. So it turns out the cable channel is holding one of those typical, "Look for clues by watching the show and win free prizes!" contests.

However, in the past, this cable channel only limited it to adverts on the channel itself plus its official website. This time, to promote season four of the show, a major radio station has been added to its pimping arsenal. And the major catch for winning those free prizes was revealed on air: You wanna get those prizes, you're gonna have to log onto the channel's website and, word for word, 'listen to what Det. Lindsay Monroe has to say about the show'. :guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw:

That's right, ladies and gentlemen. TPTB has resorted to bribing people with free gifts just to generate any interest in her character. They've never had to do this with any of the other CSI shows. In fact, when the huge Miniature Killer arc was happening in CSI:LV and the finale was coming up, the pimping was mostly on the channel itself and that was more than enough to get people to watch! Even CSI:Miami has yet to be pimped on the radio like Lindsay has in this fashion. It's hilariously sad.

Jaer said:
Maybe they hope that if you're paying attention to what Detective Monroe is saying you won't notice how atrocious her acting is. It's a theory.:lol:

:lol: There is that! Unfortunately, they are still letting her loose on screen, so I'm afraid her atrocious acting will be noticed every week.

I've been reading up on a mental illness called Borderline Personality Disorder. We've always wondered about Lindsay's erratic, bizarre behavior and mood swings as well as her self-centeredness and manipulativeness and heh, I think BPD might be the answer.

Take a read of the following BPD symptoms:

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

- Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
- Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
- Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
- Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.
- Dissociation is the state in which, on some level or another, one becomes somewhat removed from "reality," whether this be daydreaming, performing actions without being fully connected to their performance ("running on automatic"), or other, more disconnected actions. It is the opposite of "association" and involves the lack of association, usually of one's identity, with the rest of the world.

Also, there is no "pure" BPD; it coexists with other illnesses. These are the most common. BPD may coexist with:

* Post traumatic stress disorder
* Mood disorders
* Panic/anxiety disorders
* Substance abuse (54% of BPs also have a problem with substance abuse)
* Gender identity disorder
* Attention deficit disorder
* Eating disorders
* Multiple personality disorder
* Obsessive-compulsive disorder


Even more interesting is the relation of BPD with emotional abuse, specifically BPD people abusing other people. Many non-borderlines are verbally or emotionally abused by the person who has BPD.

The following are quite reminiscent of how Lindsay's treated Danny for a long time:

ABUSIVE EXPECTATIONS: The other person places unreasonable demands on you and wants you to put everything else aside to tend to their needs. It could be a demand for constant attention, frequent sex, or a requirement that you spend all your free time with the person. But no matter how much you give, it's never enough. You are subjected to constant criticism, and you are constantly berated because you don't fulfill all this person's needs.

EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL: The other person plays on your fear, guilt, compassion, values, or other "hot buttons" to get what they want. This could include threats to end the relationship, the "cold shoulder," or use other fear tactics to control you.

UNPREDICTABLE RESPONSES: Drastic mood changes or sudden emotional outbursts (This is part of the definition of BPD). Whenever someone in your life reacts very differently at different times to the same behavior from you, tells you one thing one day and the opposite the next, or likes something you do one day and hates it the next, you are being abused with unpredictable responses.

This behavior is damaging because it puts you always on edge. You're always waiting for the other shoe to drop, and you can never know what's expected of you. You must remain hypervigilant, waiting for the other person's next outburst or change of mood.

GASLIGHTING: The other person may deny that certain events occurred or that certain things were said. You know differently. The other person may deny your perceptions, memory and very sanity. (If a borderline has been disassociating, they may indeed remember reality differently than you do.)

An alcoholic or drug abuser is likely to act this way. Living with someone like this is tremendously demanding and anxiety provoking, causing the abused person to feel constantly frightened, unsettled and off balance.


So the big question is ... do you think Lindsay suffers from BPD? If yes, does this influence your opinion of Lindsay in any way?

 

[Faylinn]

If it's intentional, I might be vaguely interested to see where it goes from there. If, as I suspect, it isn't intentional and Lindsay is really meant to just be awesomesauce and we're supposed to share her emo tears--well, I got nothin'.

However, she better hope Flack doesn't wind up researching this on Google. Nobody abuses Danny and gets away with it.

 

[Elsie]

So the big question is ... do you think Lindsay suffers from BPD? If yes, does this influence your opinion of Lindsay in any way?

No, I don't think that Lindsay suffers from BPD. To be honest I don't really think that any of the symptoms particularly reflect Lindsay. Although I do agree that some of the 'emotional abuse' characteristics are very reminiscent how she has reacted on occasion, especially the 'unpredictable behaviour' and some of the 'abusive expectations' examples. She certainly displayed some of them during the latter half of season 4.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

At this point if they suddenly tell us that the whole time it was intentional, part of me would believe they were trying to pull a M. Night Shyamalan, The Happening kind of thing. Where the movie got bad reviews from both critics and regular people who saw the movie and then all of a sudden he was all "It was supposed to be bad. Have a B Movie feel".Point is at this point I think it would just be TPTB trying to fix the mess which they call Lindsay that they made.

But if BPD was the case I would still think that Lindsay should go. Anna's acting skills and the whole D/L non chemistry thing aside, the chances that the NYPD would keep an individual after finding out they had BPD is slim.

 

[Shytownmofo]

:lol: Okay, more info on the 'listen to Det. Lindsay Monroe' thing ... season four of CSI:NY has just started airing on a cable channel where I am right now. I knew something was up when every episode promo featured Lindsay at least twice when previous seasons never had that. So it turns out the cable channel is holding one of those typical, "Look for clues by watching the show and win free prizes!" contests.

However, in the past, this cable channel only limited it to adverts on the channel itself plus its official website. This time, to promote season four of the show, a major radio station has been added to its pimping arsenal. And the major catch for winning those free prizes was revealed on air: You wanna get those prizes, you're gonna have to log onto the channel's website and, word for word, 'listen to what Det. Lindsay Monroe has to say about the show'. :guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw:

That's right, ladies and gentlemen. TPTB has resorted to bribing people with free gifts just to generate any interest in her character. They've never had to do this with any of the other CSI shows. In fact, when the huge Miniature Killer arc was happening in CSI:LV and the finale was coming up, the pimping was mostly on the channel itself and that was more than enough to get people to watch! Even CSI:Miami has yet to be pimped on the radio like Lindsay has in this fashion. It's hilariously sad.

WOW! That is bad. Indescribably bad. Even here in the States, they did nothing like that. During the Miniature Killer arc in Season 7 of Vegas, they did a thing where you could bid on one of the miniature scenes, and the money could go to charity, but nothing like bribing people to watch a character with free gifts. I think this is a new low for TV Period, because I've never, ever heard of them doing this at that level.

Last Year on NY they had you text some things to a number for a chance to win either money or a prize, but it was something simple about a crucial plot point ("Like in Can You Hear Me Now" what the viewfinder thingy at the Statue of Liberty was fixed with. )

Jaer said:
Maybe they hope that if you're paying attention to what Detective Monroe is saying you won't notice how atrocious her acting is. It's a theory.:lol:

:lol: There is that! Unfortunately, they are still letting her loose on screen, so I'm afraid her atrocious acting will be noticed every week.

I've been reading up on a mental illness called Borderline Personality Disorder. We've always wondered about Lindsay's erratic, bizarre behavior and mood swings as well as her self-centeredness and manipulativeness and heh, I think BPD might be the answer.

Take a read of the following BPD symptoms:

(Symptoms edited out for Brevity)

So the big question is ... do you think Lindsay suffers from BPD? If yes, does this influence your opinion of Lindsay in any way?

My take, as a social work grad student, No, I don't necessarily think she has Borderline Personality Disorder. There are a number of other personality disorders, Hystrionic Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, etc. I think that she shows more of the of the symptoms of Narcissistic or Hystrionic Personality Disorders than Borderline. Particularly Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I do agree that she's unstable and manipulative/borderline abusive, but I'm not sure she's borderline.

Here's some stuff from the Mayo Clinic's website about NPD, I think it really fits Lindsay:


Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. They believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem, vulnerable to the slightest criticism



Signs and symptoms




Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:

• Believing that you're better than others
• Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
• Exaggerating your achievements or talents
• Expecting constant praise and admiration
• Believing that you're special
• Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
• Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
• Taking advantage of others
• Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
• Being jealous of others
• Believing that others are jealous of you
• Trouble keeping healthy relationships
• Setting unrealistic goals
• Being easily hurt and rejected
• Having a fragile self-esteem
• Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional

Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem, it's not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem don't value themselves more than they value others.
When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may have a sense of entitlement. And when you don't receive the special treatment to which you feel entitled, you may become very impatient or angry. You may also seek out others you think have the same special talents, power and qualities — people you see as equals. You may insist on having "the best" of everything — the best car, athletic club, medical care or social circles, for instance.
But underneath all this grandiosity often lies a very fragile self-esteem. You have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have a sense of secret shame and humiliation. And in order to make yourself feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and efforts to belittle the other person to make yourself appear better.


Now does that sound like Lindsay, or what?

Here's a the link where I got the info. Also a lot of info on the other Personality Disorders:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/personality-disorders/DS00562/DSECTION=2

They have detailed pages on BPD and HPD as well.

 

[Kimmychu]

:lol: :lol: :lol: BPD websites do say there is no 'pure' BPD, so she might very well have some traits of BPD and major NPD instead.

I think she really fits the following NPD traits:

• Believing that you're better than others
• Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
• Exaggerating your achievements or talents
• Expecting constant praise and admiration
• Believing that you're special
• Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
• Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
• Taking advantage of others
• Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
• Being jealous of others
• Believing that others are jealous of you
• Trouble keeping healthy relationships
• Setting unrealistic goals
• Being easily hurt and rejected
• Having a fragile self-esteem
• Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional

Huh, look at that. I copypasted the entire list. :lol:

EDIT:

Shytownmofo said:
WOW! That is bad. Indescribably bad. Even here in the States, they did nothing like that. During the Miniature Killer arc in Season 7 of Vegas, they did a thing where you could bid on one of the miniature scenes, and the money could go to charity, but nothing like bribing people to watch a character with free gifts. I think this is a new low for TV Period, because I've never, ever heard of them doing this at that level.

Oh, yes, I remember hearing about that. Now that's a cool contest!

It isn't the contest itself that makes me :lol: so much as them specifically using Lindsay for it. Some people have told me that in other countries, Gary and Carmine are the ones usually used to promote the show, especially Carmine for eye candy.

So for them to specifically use Lindsay, to the point of making people listen to her talk about the show just to get freebies is ... yeah, it's hilarious and sad. :guffaw: Even free gifts won't make me listen to her talk in an episode, much less what she 'thinks about the show'.

 

[PalmettoHunna]

I just wanted to add my two cents to this disscution...again. I know that someone wrote (and I don't feel like looking for it) that the storyline about her past came out of the blue. I do seem to remember listening to the audio comentary from season two that their were hints that were written into the script to clue us into Lindsay's past. The problem seems to lie in Anna's poor acting ability, because the hints were suttle and her flat fish like delivery caused noone to take notice.

Just the simple line in Manhattan Manhunt, "I have seen blood, worst that even" or something to that effect with a better actress really could have been a catalyst for sparking interest in her character's past, but instead it comes off as nothing more than words read off a page with her. One might wonder do they not give Anna the script util the day of shooting? She often comes off as if she were doing a cold read.

As for the arguement that Danny was prop for Lindsay...the characters on the show seem to be able to show emotion without the help of a partner forcing it out of them (Danny in CP and Trapped, Mac in Blink, Stella at the end of All Access, ect.) Anna has never been able to pull of an emotional scene by herself especially one without words. That is why I don't like the character and could do without her.

It has also been mentioned that when she was not there no one noticed I agree. It barely even registered that she was not there. When any other the other characters are gone absent for a even apart of an episode I wonder where they went, but not Lindsay. Sometimes when you hire people for a job you think they may be good for one can be mistaken.

I haven't been here in forever I was out of the US for a while but I'm back now.

 

[Shytownmofo]

Hmmm. I've been thinking about it, and way back, in one of Carmine's last interviews, he said something about the D/L thing (don't even want to call it a "relationship"), and that it would be resolved soon, that they'd either have a child together (no, no NO!) or he'd find out that she wasn't "all he thought she was."

Now, that sounds like a perfect way to end the relationship, where her Narcissistic Personality Disorder, with touches of Borderline starts to show, and we can see "Evil Lindsay" rather than whiney emo Lindsay and manipulative Lindsay. Then, that can set the stage for her to fade into the background or be fired.

However, I'm not sure Anna B. has the acting chops to pull it off. If she can't pull even simple emotions out without help, I don't know how they can make her diabolical. I've seen her be manipulative (Like Water for Murder, Oedipus Hex, All in the Family) Emo (Silent Night, Sleight Out of Hand) and Greedy/posessive (Snow Day, where she all but snatched Danny away from Flack) But I don't know whether she can be convincing at all of the above. I mean, I agree, no one noticed when she wasn't there/didn't have some Danny related Drama to propel her, so can she do it?

What do you guys think? Can Anna Belknap pull off an evil, manipulative Lindsay Monroe convincingly? I think if they do it subtly, she can pull it off.

BTW, PalmettoHunna I love your sig. One of the best ones I've seen, ever. Pithy, but brief. And oh so true.

 

[JellyBelly]

Lindsay doesn't have a personality disorder at all. It's all very well reading a list of traits from a website and trying to fit them into a character's personality but honestly we would all fit into one of the many different typologies if it were that simple.

And yes, I do have a certain amount of informed knowledge on the subject having worked in mental health services in the past, in fact back in the day when PD's were not acknowledged as a diagnosed condition but people were categorised as antisocial and often excluded from access to much needed services.

Narcissistic PD is one of the hardest (imo) to work with, there is no reasoning or logicising with someone because they are so self absorbed that they cannot reason beyond themselves as the central player. Now I realise that many of you see Lindsay as completely self absorded (which I don't agree with) but honestly if she had NPD she would not have been able to hold down the job she has and certainly not to the extent of being hand picked to join the team. The kind of scrutiny that she would be under as an investigator would have revealed the flaws in her mental health long before now if that was the case.

IMO she is someone who has likely experienced PTSD and as a result has not developed relationships in the way that most of us have by the time we reach our 30's. That's not unusual and it doesn't mean she has a mental disorder. Yes, she has moments of self interest and emotional outbursts, but honestly who doesn't? We may not like her portrayed like this but I think it's interesting and somewhat realistic considering her history. Part of the problem here is that most of the other characters are much more sturdy so in comparison the inconsitencies with Lindsay are more transparent. The other unstable character is Danny but he's been developed in a much more appealing way and while I don't necessarily think fans side with him because he's hot I do think there's an issue of him not being able to do any wrong in the eyes of some fans that it then makes Lindsay's flaws and their impact on him cloud his own flaws and make them more acceptable to some people.

I love Danny as much as the next person and understand his appeal and yes, I do think that's largely down to Carmine's portrayal. I just don't think Lindsay has been given a chance to shine and that is so much more than Anna's acting ability. There have been many inconsistencies with her character but I think that's largely down to the writer's and inconsistent storytelling.

To me they keep changing their minds about her and where they're taking the character and yep, they've spent too much time centering her around Danny. A lot of people who don't like her now did like her in S2 and I do think a lot of the dislike has come from her apparent mistreatment of Danny. I honestly believe that mistreatment was down to the storytelling rather than an intent to make her character that way.

As for Anna, she's not the best actor by a long shot but I really do think she portrays a complicated character well. My one concession will be that I'm not sure she cries all that well. I say I'm not that sure because when I've seen her scenes in SN and SOOH I have viewed them differently each time. I can see what people say about her inability to cry but at the same time I think those scenes sit well with a character who isn't meant to show emotions after years of trying to hide/control them.

As for the 'dead fish eyes' and her inability to portray emotions at all, I don't see it. I think she's handled other emotional scenes well. I liked her monologue and felt she portrayed Lindsay's hurt, frustration and pissed offness rather well.

I do agree (with those who commented way back) that the scene with Hawkes calling her Montana was odd. It came across as awkward and kinda pointless and wasn't at all emotional. I can't believe though that if they'd intended for that scene to be angsty that someone didn't shout 'cut' and reshoot because if it was meant to be that way it is obvious she'd missed the memo. I honestly think tptb put that scene in as a reminder that D/L were still an issue and as a subtle attempt to show that in some way Lindsay had moved on from the emotional angst that any mention or interaction on a personal level re. Danny had been previously portrayed. That theory is kinda supported by Hill's comments re. that scene that it was really there as a reminder. The problem (as has often been with D/L) is that tptb start something then don't seem to know how to finish it in a believable and consistent way that doesn't leave people still trying to guess as to who Lindsay is.

Apologies for the length of my post but I've been away for the past month (in NY of all places) and have only been able to lurk accasionally so have a lot to say and respond to.

 

[Shytownmofo]

Lindsay doesn't have a personality disorder at all. It's all very well reading a list of traits from a website and trying to fit them into a character's personality but honestly we would all fit into one of the many different typologies if it were that simple.

I beg to differ. Yes, it is easy to start diagnosing everything under the sun in people when you do have some informed knowledge, especially in people you know quite a bit about someone, even a character on a TV show.

And yes, I do have a certain amount of informed knowledge on the subject having worked in mental health services in the past, in fact back in the day when PD's were not acknowledged as a diagnosed condition but people were categorised as antisocial and often excluded from access to much needed services.

Just because you've worked in Mental Health services doesn't mean you can say someone doesn't have a disorder. People are misdiagnosed all the time, even by trained professionals who know the DSM backwards and forwards.

The thing is, looking back, even from the first time she appeared, Lindsay's shown traits congruent with NPD.

Her first day in the lab in "Zoo York," she was very hyper and hypervigillant. She was bouncing off the walls, seemingly eager to impress Mac and the rest of the team. She didn't lay back even the tiniest bit until Stella told her to breathe.

Then, in "Dancing With the Fishes" the experiment scene, where she put the "odor gel" under Mac's nose and did the thing with the Hydrogen Sulfide. That feels as someone trying very hard to make a good impression.

Then, in "Trapped" and "Manhattan Manhunt," and "Bad Beat" where she didn't seem to take any perceived criticism very well or took it personally. "Trapped" where she had to look in the pool of lube she was not happy about it at all.

I thought she was going to have kittens in "Manhattan Manhunt" when she was sent back to the Lab. Ditto with dumpster duty in "Bad Beat" She even said "This new girl stuff has GOT to stop." Please, kitten, get over yourself.

Don't forget the bugs in "Fare Game" Was a bit impressive, but looking back, it's a bit creepy.

Ditto finding out where Mac plays bass. Now, it comes across a bit creepy and stalkerish. (though to be fair, I don't know how much the rest of the team knew about that, and they are investigators.)

I found her meltdown in "All Access" strange, as well as her pointed curiosity about Aiden in "Heroes."

Then her manipulativeness and emoness in Season 3. I found her sudden inability to deal with grieving mothers to be odd. Grieving parents weren't a big deal in Season 2. Where she gets Danny to talk to the mother, in "Oedipus Hex", the way she jets from the scene in "Silent Night" The crying scenes, etc.

Season 4 her monologue of doom and chastizement of Danny for not dealing with his grief on HER terms. Passive-Agressive at best, but coupled with the way she pushed him away inscessantly in Season 3....

Narcissistic PD is one of the hardest (imo) to work with, there is no reasoning or logicising with someone because they are so self absorbed that they cannot reason beyond themselves as the central player. Now I realise that many of you see Lindsay as completely self absorded (which I don't agree with) but honestly if she had NPD she would not have been able to hold down the job she has and certainly not to the extent of being hand picked to join the team. The kind of scrutiny that she would be under as an investigator would have revealed the flaws in her mental health long before now if that was the case.

IMO she is someone who has likely experienced PTSD and as a result has not developed relationships in the way that most of us have by the time we reach our 30's. That's not unusual and it doesn't mean she has a mental disorder. Yes, she has moments of self interest and emotional outbursts, but honestly who doesn't? We may not like her portrayed like this but I think it's interesting and somewhat realistic considering her history. Part of the problem here is that most of the other characters are much more sturdy so in comparison the inconsitencies with Lindsay are more transparent. The other unstable character is Danny but he's been developed in a much more appealing way and while I don't necessarily think fans side with him because he's hot I do think there's an issue of him not being able to do any wrong in the eyes of some fans that it then makes Lindsay's flaws and their impact on him cloud his own flaws and make them more acceptable to some people.

I agree that Lindsay does have a ton of PTSD issues, however, I don't think that's all it is. Remember, people with Personality disorders are master manipulaters and charmers. They know how to get what they want/need through things like charming emo tearz and learned/perceived helplessness.

I love Danny as much as the next person and understand his appeal and yes, I do think that's largely down to Carmine's portrayal. I just don't think Lindsay has been given a chance to shine and that is so much more than Anna's acting ability. There have been many inconsistencies with her character but I think that's largely down to the writer's and inconsistent storytelling.
[/quote]

I once again disagree. She had the whole PTSD storyline in Season 3. She just dropped the ball on that one, IMO. Imagine if Hawkes had that storyline, if Stella had that storyline, if Flack or even any of the characters on any of the other CSI's had that storyline they would have rocked the house with it. Anna/Lindsay didn't.

To me they keep changing their minds about her and where they're taking the character and yep, they've spent too much time centering her around Danny. A lot of people who don't like her now did like her in S2 and I do think a lot of the dislike has come from her apparent mistreatment of Danny. I honestly believe that mistreatment was down to the storytelling rather than an intent to make her character that way.

Well, Danny's the only one she's really close to, and people with Personality disorders treat the people they're closest to like complete and utter garbage quite a bit of the time.

I'll admit, I'm upset with her about the way she's treated Danny, but it's more than that. It's her unconvincing emo tearz, her lousy portrayal, etc. that I've mentioned above.

As for Anna, she's not the best actor by a long shot but I really do think she portrays a complicated character well. My one concession will be that I'm not sure she cries all that well. I say I'm not that sure because when I've seen her scenes in SN and SOOH I have viewed them differently each time. I can see what people say about her inability to cry but at the same time I think those scenes sit well with a character who isn't meant to show emotions after years of trying to hide/control them.

As for the 'dead fish eyes' and her inability to portray emotions at all, I don't see it. I think she's handled other emotional scenes well. I liked her monologue and felt she portrayed Lindsay's hurt, frustration and pissed offness rather well.

I just don't think she emotes well at all. Her times of Anger, like the meltdown in All Access and her anger with the suspect in Super Men just seemed out of place. We can't feel what she's feeling, or at least I can't. In her "Monologue of Doom" which was completely out of place at work, as well as when she shoved the clipboard or whatever it was into Danny's hands, it felt out of place and it's like "Okay, she's feeling/doing this WhY?" or that's the way I saw it.

Also, as mentioned elsewhere on the board, and as you've mentioned very eloquently, Danny has a truckload of issues, as well.

He reads very well for Dependent Personality Disorder. He's always with/ trying to seek approval from the ones who treat him worst, with the exception of Flack, who in "All in the Family" had to really get on his case and get borderline nasty with him, then Mac in Season 1. He can't stand disapproval, whether it's from males or females. He has trust issues, and uses his sexuality in an unhealthy manner.

Now, I know it's impossible to diagnose someone with something like that unless you really know them/spend time/do therepy with them but IMO, she does portray the signs. Would I go out on a limb and say she has NPD, or Danny has DPD? No. However, I would suggest professional evals on both of them, especially Danny after the Ruben Sandoval mess.

/sorry for the book as well, but as a social work grad student, it is a fascinating case study. Plus, I have a lot of strong opinions about things.

 

[Poppet]

I really don't think Lindsay has any kind of personality disorder mainly as that would mean her behaviour/character was planned this way from the beginning and I really don't think it has been.

I think it is more the case of Aiden is leaving we need to bring in another female character ......lets make her a country girl as that will make her stand out from the rest of the cast.....OK she is not standing out so let give her a flirty thing with Danny......Still not standing out, let give her a big dark secret......OK that didn't work as well as we thought, lets stick with the flirting with Danny.......not sure what to do with D/L so lets just leave it for awhile.......she really is fading into the background let bring back D/L but with more dram this time, like her totally over reacting to someone dealing with the guilt of a child murder forgeting her birthday........didn't go down as well as we had thought ...what next....

I hate to think what they will come up with for next season, but if they were to use a personalily disorder/another dark secret it would only be back peddling. I think the reason the big dark secret didn't work as well as they probably hope was that there was no sign of it when Lindsay first arrived - her being annoyed at being sent back to the lab in Manhattan Manhunt when all the victims were school kids but then in later episodes she struggled with crimes involving young women. There is no consistency in her character, which is why for me the character doesn't work.

 

[Kimmychu]

I'll be commenting on previous posts in a while but I wanted to mention that there's an Anna Belknap interview in a Malaysian newspaper, which you can read here. It's old news if you've already watched season four because it's basically an article that's part of the cable channel's promotion for the latest season. It's hilariously sad to me that the article actually used that so overly beaten-like-a-dead-horse phrase, 'breath of fresh air'. Just screams to me of TPTB possibly telling them, "Just use the dang line, alright?! It's the only nice thing we have to say about her!"

So because most of us already know all that's happened, some of the following lines are ... amusing:

When asked what will happen with Danny and Lindsay's 'romance': "Trouble ... trouble in paradise."

:guffaw: I just loved that it was written as if she had to think real hard on how to phrase it. I think TVGuide termed what happened in Snow Day far more accurately; a hook up. No wonder Belknap had to think some on what to say about Danny turning to another woman who treated him better than Lindsay ever has in three whole seasons! And if Danny's standoffish-ness and distancing himself from her immediately from the premiere episode is anything to go by, 'paradise' ain't the word I'd use.

When asked about being a part of the show: "I like the role and I like the part."

When asked about what she contributes to the show/Lindsay: "I am not ever going to be super-glamarous and I think that is what they wanted. It is what I am and if they wanted something else they are not going to get it."

Well, guys, I think we finally got a major clue why Lindsay is the way she is. :guffaw: If somebody thinks they're super awesomesauce and don't need to change no matter what ... there's only one way to go, and it's definitely not up. Lindsay being Ms. Super-glamorous? Don't care either way because people just want her to act and EMOTE EFFECTIVELY.

Now we also know she's only working part-time on the show. I can't help but be thankful it's not full-time. However, I'll just LOL my head off if people start claiming that 'her acting wasn't so good this season because she's only around part-time'. Yeah, just like last season her acting wasn't at its best because she was pregnant and that the season before that, it was because she was 'new', right?

 

[jolein]

Okay,so I just finish reading that article and laughed,shake my head and roll my eyes at the same time,well almost.
She comes across as a bit arrogant when they ask about the show and her character and it just sounds like she doesn`t know her character at all.

 

[La_Guera]

I'll be commenting on previous posts in a while but I wanted to mention that there's an Anna Belknap interview in a Malaysian newspaper, which you can read here. It's old news if you've already watched season four because it's basically an article that's part of the cable channel's promotion for the latest season. It's hilariously sad to me that the article actually used that so overly beaten-like-a-dead-horse phrase, 'breath of fresh air'. Just screams to me of TPTB possibly telling them, "Just use the dang line, alright?! It's the only nice thing we have to say about her!"

So because most of us already know all that's happened, some of the following lines are ... amusing:

When asked what will happen with Danny and Lindsay's 'romance': "Trouble ... trouble in paradise."

:guffaw: I just loved that it was written as if she had to think real hard on how to phrase it. I think TVGuide termed what happened in Snow Day far more accurately; a hook up. No wonder Belknap had to think some on what to say about Danny turning to another woman who treated him better than Lindsay ever has in three whole seasons! And if Danny's standoffish-ness and distancing himself from her immediately from the premiere episode is anything to go by, 'paradise' ain't the word I'd use.

When asked about being a part of the show: "I like the role and I like the part."

When asked about what she contributes to the show/Lindsay: "I am not ever going to be super-glamarous and I think that is what they wanted. It is what I am and if they wanted something else they are not going to get it."

Well, guys, I think we finally got a major clue why Lindsay is the way she is. :guffaw: If somebody thinks they're super awesomesauce and don't need to change no matter what ... there's only one way to go, and it's definitely not up. Lindsay being Ms. Super-glamorous? Don't care either way because people just want her to act and EMOTE EFFECTIVELY.

Now we also know she's only working part-time on the show. I can't help but be thankful it's not full-time. However, I'll just LOL my head off if people start claiming that 'her acting wasn't so good this season because she's only around part-time'. Yeah, just like last season her acting wasn't at its best because she was pregnant and that the season before that, it was because she was 'new', right?

"I am not ever going to be super-glamorous and I think that is what they wanted. It is what I am and if they wanted something else they are not going to get it."

Wow. Now we know where Lindsay gets it. No, you self-important idiot, I didn't expect you to be glamorous. I expected you to be competent in your job as an actress and not make me long to shove super-heated tongs up my ass every time you steal precious screen time from the other, more profoundly talented actors, chew it to ribbons, and pound it into the ground.

I love Hill Harper, but I'll never quite forgive him for going to bat for Anna Belknap.

 

[JellyBelly]

Just because you've worked in Mental Health services doesn't mean you can say someone doesn't have a disorder. People are misdiagnosed all the time, even by trained professionals who know the DSM backwards and forwards.

Of course, I'm no more able to diagnose than those who believe she does have a PD (or at least show some of the traits). That was really my point. But, it is my belief that she doesn't have one, at least there has been no consistent evidence to support that theory.

The thing is, looking back, even from the first time she appeared, Lindsay's shown traits congruent with NPD.

I get that you don't like her and to you those scenes will likely be irritating but I don't really get how you can see any evidence of NPD in any of your examples. Really, to me the examples you give support the fact that anyone privvy to a list of PD traits could interpret any one of us as having a PD.

A common psychiatric term a few years ago was "a normal reaction to a life event". I think the problem with Lindsay has been the storytelling in terms of her actions. They have consistently portrayed her as reacting to situations (All Access, LRC, Oedipus Hex, RND - to name a few) without giving the viewer any real understanding of where she's coming from. Some of us have been able to justify her earlier actions in terms of her past coming back to her when she found out she had to testify but even then it's not been clear. An example is her standing Danny up, we can speculate that it happened because she'd just found out about the trial but we don't really know. They've done it again recently which is why some people see her as being passive aggressive and demanding Danny to grieve on her terms. The problem is we see her actions but the 'life events' are not clear. If she did know about Rikki (and she and Danny had been in a relationship) then it would have been understandable. Unfortunately they've left too many gaps which I doubt we'll ever get filled now.

I honestly believe the writers have sacrificed her character development in the persuit of drama, drama, drama.