Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[Shytownmofo]

Shytownmofo said:
I'm sure they do see this stuff. However, I think they either don't care, or their reading comprehension is rather selective.

Me, I'm gonna say it has something to do with Zuiker, if his prepubescent babbling about Lindsay and D/L is anything to go by. :guffaw: Embarrassing, man. 'Perfect heart' that turned out to be total BS, anyone?

Oh God. That's just a perfect spot for a puking smiley. Makes me lose respect for Zuiker, especially if he thinks the whole D/L thing is a great Idea. Makes me really wonder why it was that Vanessa Ferlito left the show, now. Perhaps they were thinking of doing the same with her and she was having none of it. IIRC, wasn't her reason for leaving something about how she was homesick for New York, or something? that just reeks of PC, non-answer. (I know that's just pure speculation, so slap me if I'm off base there)

I agree, she can't have that with Danny, but she could work more with Mac, Adam, Hawkes, etc. Or, they could show more of her life outside of work, presuming she has one.

There's a big chance that's what TPTB intends to do with her character in season five. Hill Harper's most recent interview kinda gave ominous vibes about that, even though he's assured it won't be his character that gets saddled with Lindsay. :lol: Unfortunately, even he doesn't know whether what he's said is confirmed or not, so who knows?
[/quote]

That's what I don't understand. Why does she have to be pinned to just one particular character. Why can't they spread her around? I think the biggest mistake they made with her is "saddling" Danny, and seemingly Danny alone, with her. It really hampered any kind of character development, limited acting skills aside. Then, the problem became that when the whole romance thing fell apart/became a farce, there wass noone left that she has/had a really strong bond with (except to act all ooc and not let her have consequences when she screws up). So, they're screwed, IMO. I say, reduce her role, let her do things with other characters equally, and don't pin her to Hawkes or Adam or even Mac. You notice that none of the other characters are solely pinned to one other person on the show.

Yep. She's pretty much like a pot full of random ingredients. Each on their own, they're useful, but now they're mashed up in a way that's useless and need to be thrown out.

:guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw: I like that. It's so damn true. A lot of great and not so great tastes that don't taste great together. I think they DO need to restart from scratch, or just get a new recipe.

 

[Kimmychu]

Shytownmofo said:
Oh God. That's just a perfect spot for a puking smiley. Makes me lose respect for Zuiker, especially if he thinks the whole D/L thing is a great Idea.

:lol: How do you feel finding out that Zuiker thinks Anna's crying performance in the court room scene was 'jaw-dropping'? :lol: (I think he is, even today, the only person from TPTB who's said something remotely positive about that scene.)

Makes me really wonder why it was that Vanessa Ferlito left the show, now. Perhaps they were thinking of doing the same with her and she was having none of it. IIRC, wasn't her reason for leaving something about how she was homesick for New York, or something? that just reeks of PC, non-answer. (I know that's just pure speculation, so slap me if I'm off base there)

Heh, you're not alone in thinking the reason reeks of fishiness. The word was that Vanessa Ferlito 'didn't want to be stuck on a TV show'.

The funny thing is, a while after she left CSI:NY ... she filmed a pilot episode for a cop TV show. Why she would leave a primetime cop/crime TV show like CSI:NY with the reason that she didn't want to be 'stuck on a TV show' and then end up filming for another cop TV show is beyond me.

The fact TPTB completely killed off Aiden shortly after Lindsay joined the cast reeks of fishiness to me too.

Yep. She's pretty much like a pot full of random ingredients. Each on their own, they're useful, but now they're mashed up in a way that's useless and need to be thrown out.

:guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw: I like that. It's so damn true. A lot of great and not so great tastes that don't taste great together. I think they DO need to restart from scratch, or just get a new recipe.

Seriously! Say for example, you have chocolate sauce, potato wedges, spaghetti and meatballs, tea and cheese cake. On their own, each food/drink is good. You mash it all up in one pot, and you try eating it without puking. :lol: I guarantee even with the bribe of money, you'll throw up after a few mouthfuls.

Ya know what's even sadder? That TPTB has continuously fed us this icky grub for years on end and went to the point of trying to force viewers into thinking it's delicious. Sure, it might have worked on some people but there are some of us who actually use our brains and know better than to rely on someone else's opinion to make our judgements.

You made a good point about TPTB saddling Danny with Lindsay as a huge mistake. That's why restarting from scratch may be the only option left if TPTB intends to keep her on the show. However, I dunno how they'll do it without retconning at least 85-95% of everything related to Lindsay since her introduction. Her character has been so fickle that, well ... she has no character. She's a proxy the writers keep changing to fit whatever story they come up with, and now that it's apparent her actress can't handle any heavy emotional scenes, period, it's costing TPTB and Carmine Giovinazzo (who has had the misfortune of being her prop for three years running) big time.

 

[Top41]

I do think it's interesting that after three seasons, Lindsay doesn't really have a strong connection to any other character but Danny. I know I always compare her to him, but in his first season, Ryan Wolfe on CSI: Miami established a protege/mentor relationship of sorts with Calleigh and a somewhat antagonistic relationship with Delko, as well as a bond with Horatio before he became the King of Remoteness. Lindsay has only really ever had Danny--she hasn't formed any real bonds with any of the other members of the team. That really illustrates what a prop Danny has been for her, and how much she needs him to give her a reason to exist on the show. Look at fourth season--she was wallpaper until Ruben died and Danny went into a downward spiral. Then she suddenly had something to do. She hasn't had a single storyline that hasn't involved him in some way.

 

[jolein]

I do think it's interesting that after three seasons, Lindsay doesn't really have a strong connection to any other character but Danny.

I think that is also one of the problems with her as a character.
The interaction with the other characters is so limited that there is almost none.
In the few scenes she had with some,the one which clicked most was with Mac(although lately that has been going down as well).

 

[privatename]

Would everyone please stop trying to force Lindsay onto Mac! :scream: :lol:

I've read a number of times on the boards over time that the only one people see that Lindsay has chemistry with is Mac. Frankly, I don't see it. And I really don't want Mac to be the new Lindsay prop. I love the character of Mac and love his interactions with the rest of the cast and don't want to have to all of a sudden have a good number of those scenes be with Lindsay. Because, quite frankly, I like to fast forward or ignore her scenes where possible and I don't want to skip scenes with Mac in them.

I do get that no one is really suggesting that Mac be the new Lindsay prop, but I kind of feel like if that is the only one others see she has any chemistry and if TPTB decide to pull back on the D/L stuff then Mac is who they will most likely put her with and I can't really express how much I would hate that.

 

[Kimmychu]

:guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw: Yep, ya know the situation's bad when nobody wants Lindsay hoisted onto anybody on the cast. There's only one way for her to go, right? *points at thread title*

I think the only reason people are mentioning that Lindsay has chemistry with Mac only because of that arrow shooting scene in season two. Ya know, the one where she *le gasp* actually managed an expression other than a scrunch face for a few seconds? :lol: That's about it, really. Apart from that, Mac was either boss-neutral, OOC or mocking her, like in episode 4x02.

privatename said:
I do get that no one is really suggesting that Mac be the new Lindsay prop, but I kind of feel like if that is the only one others see she has any chemistry and if TPTB decide to pull back on the D/L stuff then Mac is who they will most likely put her with and I can't really express how much I would hate that.

:lol: Seeing as Lindsay told Mac to his face how stupid it was of her to have ever gotten involved with Danny, I doubt TPTB will be pairing Mac with Lindsay anytime soon, if ever.

 

[Top41]

I think a lot of the reason Mac is mentioned as being the only one Lindsay has any chemistry with on any level (not even necessarily romantic chemistry) is that Gary Sinise is so good he can transcend Anna Belknap's bad acting and even bring her up a little. So really it's just a compliment to Gary, not a call to saddle Mac with the albatross that is Lindsay. :lol:

 

[Kimmychu]

Top41 said:
I think a lot of the reason Mac is mentioned as being the only one Lindsay has any chemistry with on any level (not even necessarily romantic chemistry) is that Gary Sinise is so good he can transcend Anna Belknap's bad acting and even bring her up a little. So really it's just a compliment to Gary, not a call to saddle Mac with the albatross that is Lindsay. :lol:

:lol: Okay, I can go with that. And yes, Gary Sinise is a fantastic actor. The work he's produced is more than enough evidence of that.

Hmm, now that I think about it ... do you guys think TPTB may have deliberately written Mac to be 'nicer' lately to Lindsay for a specific reason? Some of us have noticed his odd OOC-ness towards Lindsay and pointed it out in this thread. The romance angle is totally out, but can you guys imagine Mac becoming Lindsay's new, dare I even say it, BFF? :lol:

 

[Caprian]

Top41 said:
I think a lot of the reason Mac is mentioned as being the only one Lindsay has any chemistry with on any level (not even necessarily romantic chemistry) is that Gary Sinise is so good he can transcend Anna Belknap's bad acting and even bring her up a little. So really it's just a compliment to Gary, not a call to saddle Mac with the albatross that is Lindsay. :lol:

:lol: Okay, I can go with that. And yes, Gary Sinise is a fantastic actor. The work he's produced is more than enough evidence of that.

Hmm, now that I think about it ... do you guys think TPTB may have deliberately written Mac to be 'nicer' lately to Lindsay for a specific reason? Some of us have noticed his odd OOC-ness towards Lindsay and pointed it out in this thread. The romance angle is totally out, but can you guys imagine Mac becoming Lindsay's new, dare I even say it, BFF? :lol:

Ouch, that hurts! :guffaw: :lol:
In my point of view Mac became nicer to Lindsay after the slaughter -Lindsay was involved in some years ago- turned out.
We can say Mac make exceptions with Lindsay by that point.

 

[privatename]

I don't think they would go the romantic route with Mac and Lindsay either --- as others have said that would just be ridiculous. However, I could see TPTB trying to return what little credibility the character had back to Lindsay after the debacle of this season by having her play off of Gary Sinise, someone who really is a great actor and hoping that his greatness makes her shine, too. I just hope that they don't go that route to try to redeem a character who, as someone above said, really does suck the life out of the scenes she is in.

Kimmychu said::guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw: Yep, ya know the situation's bad when nobody wants Lindsay hoisted onto anybody on the cast. There's only one way for her to go, right? *points at thread title*

Yep -- only one way for her to go! Out! If she must stay and unfortunately I really think she is here to stay, then please keep her in the background with no emotional scenes.

 

[Kimmychu]

Caprian said:
In my point of view Mac became nicer to Lindsay after the slaughter -Lindsay was involved in some years ago- turned out.
We can say Mac make exceptions with Lindsay by that point.

That's an interesting point! Do you mean when Lindsay returned to Montana for the trial? Yeah, both Mac and Stella hugged her and said goodbye to her in the labs (and boy, did I wish it was a permanent goodbye ) but hmmm, Mac already knew about Lindsay's Big Dark Secret even before he hired her. That's why he ordered her to go back to the labs in that teen multiple-homicide case even though she wanted to process the scene. (Her eagerness to stay at a gory scene like that was at such odds with her break down later. Don't even get me started on how weird-sad it was of her bragging she'd seen such oh-so-scary stuff back in Montana like nothing could possibly scare a tough country girl like her and then freaking out in the morgue out of the blue.) So, why would Mac only be nicer to her over a whole year after the trial?

Oh, Mac, don't you know overly coddling a child will only result in turning her into a selfish, spoilt brat? Oh wait. You're too late already. Carry on.

Questions: So Mac knew about Lindsay's Big Dark Secret before hiring her. Why do you guys think he hired her anyway? More importantly, him ordering her to go back to the labs instead of processing that multiple-homicide scene, does that mean he always knew Lindsay was ... unstable?

 

[Elsie]

I do get that no one is really suggesting that Mac be the new Lindsay prop, but I kind of feel like if that is the only one others see she has any chemistry and if TPTB decide to pull back on the D/L stuff then Mac is who they will most likely put her with and I can't really express how much I would hate that.

I don't see it that way to be honest, for a start Mac is the main guy and we only see Lindsay for about two minutes per episode anyway, and I'm not sure I can see that changing much. I wonder if they may have actually moved past really putting her with anyone, she seems to me to have been relegated to playing a bit part.

I think a lot of the reason Mac is mentioned as being the only one Lindsay has any chemistry with on any level (not even necessarily romantic chemistry) is that Gary Sinise is so good he can transcend Anna Belknap's bad acting and even bring her up a little. So really it's just a compliment to Gary, not a call to saddle Mac with the albatross that is Lindsay. :lol:

:lol: Well, Gary Sinise is really good.

Hmm, now that I think about it ... do you guys think TPTB may have deliberately written Mac to be 'nicer' lately to Lindsay for a specific reason? Some of us have noticed his odd OOC-ness towards Lindsay and pointed it out in this thread. The romance angle is totally out, but can you guys imagine Mac becoming Lindsay's new, dare I even say it, BFF? :lol:

I can only think of his niceties to Lindsay when he should have been reprimanding her in Like Water for Murder, I haven't noticed him being specifically nice to her other than that. And absolutely not, Mac himself said that he doesn't get involved in the personal lives of his staff, I just can't see him getting closer to Lindsay in any way. Nor would I want to. :lol:

eta: I'm totally multi-tasking so I missed Kimmy's last post. He hired Lindsay because she's great at interpreting blood spatter right? :lol: Just because she's been the victim of a crime wouldn't necessarily make her unstable, and no one ever gave the impression that she was bad at her job previously, so why not hire her? He hired Danny even though everyone told him not to, maybe Mac likes to give chances to those that others wouldn't take a risk on? The whole 'dark secret' nonsense was too much for me to be honest. I'm not sure that Mac has been nicer to her since that either, I'm not sure he has been much different at all. Some of their interaction in season 2 was good, as was some of it in seasons 3 and 4 (maybe, I can't even think of any examples, but my point is that it hasn't changed imo).

 

[Kimmychu]

Elsie said:
He hired Lindsay because she's great at interpreting blood spatter right? :lol:

:lol: Really?! I can't remember the last time she ever used her expertise. Oh, wait, she never has.

Just because she's been the victim of a crime wouldn't necessarily make her unstable, and no one ever gave the impression that she was bad at her job previously, so why not hire her?

Yeah, it's true that her being a victim of a crime wouldn't necessarily make her unstable. It was the fact that Mac felt he had to order Lindsay to go back to the labs rather than process the multiple-homicide scene that made me wonder if he had knowledge that Lindsay was still shaky when it came to particular homicide scenes like that. And if he did know Lindsay was like that even though she's a CSI, he took quite a risk to hire her. Heh, if that was the case, his decision kinda blew up in his face, huh? :lol:

He hired Danny even though everyone told him not to, maybe Mac likes to give chances to those that others wouldn't take a risk on?

That's a good point. Mac hurled that into Danny's face in On the Job, right? I can't recall whether Danny and his Tanglewood Boys association had something to do with it as well, or whether it was just Mac claiming that people told him not to hire Danny because Danny's a problem, so to speak. The funny thing is, Mac was always hard on Danny, especially in season one. Mac taking Danny off the promotion grid was proof. With Lindsay, it's the opposite. Was her Big Dark Secret all it took to make Mac Mr. I'm-More-Worried-About-You towards her? :lol:

The whole 'dark secret' nonsense was too much for me to be honest.

:lol: It's such a shame it was resolved the way it was because it had massive potential for Lindsay's development independent of Danny. But nooooo, he had to be written to fly to Montana and attend the trial which ended up making Danny and D/L twu wub the focus instead. I think that was when I wrote her off as a character unworthy of being on the main cast. If she needed propping even for a plot line where she's supposed to be the 'star', she's done for.

 

[Caprian]

Caprian said:
In my point of view Mac became nicer to Lindsay after the slaughter -Lindsay was involved in some years ago- turned out.
We can say Mac make exceptions with Lindsay by that point.

That's an interesting point! Do you mean when Lindsay returned to Montana for the trial?

Yeah, you're right. When she got the letter about the trial she cracked up. Maybe Mac felt sorry about her. Or I really don't know why Mac treats her differently as the others. The hydrogen sulfide was a perfect example for that.

In Silent Night she cracked up too, she can't go into the house to do her job. She borrowed/demanded Sheldon's car to go away as fast as she could. And here's my question: Why did she became a CSI if she can't face with a murder of a young girl? (Okay, I know that it was TPTB's poor attempt to show us and point out Lindsay's 'dark secret'. BUT...) :scream:

 

[Surreal_44]

What makes me wonder is,if the writers and producers don`t see all of the things people here(and on other boards )notice.

Sure they probally can`t fire her or anything but I can`t imagine that maybe a writer must feel that it`s tough to write for Anna because of her limited acting skills.

Or maybe -- although this might shock you -- the people on the show actually like Anna's performances! I realize that there is a fairly vocal segment of fans that don't like Lindsay/Anna, but this does not remotely speak for the majority of fans or for everyone involved in the show.

These statements on the forums are only opinions, not absolutes, right? So it isn't an actual fact that Anna is a sucky actress.

What you see as bad acting may be perfectly fine for others. I myself find Carmine to be below par when it comes to acting; half his delivery makes me cringe and I don't get drawn into his character simply because I think he's either too over-the-top or he's too dull to take much notice of. Sometimes I am convinced that he is simply bored of his character and doesn't put any effort into making Danny likable. Not to mention he is always having some sort of Issue, and although I enjoy Issues for characters, Danny lacks the grace to deal with any of his problems in a way that does not make me want to strangle him to end his miserable existence.

Of course, just because I think this does not mean that this is ultimately true. It's just my opinion on what I find to be an overly-dramatic, annoying, self-involved wanker who just happens to have nice upper arms but who manages to fail in every other respect as a character for me.

One thing I can agree with is the writing of Lindsay's character. No, I don't think she's as all over the place as some of you do, but I have to agree that the Danny/Lindsay storyline was badly written and was absolutely the most dreadful thing that could happen to either of their characters.

I do disagree about Danny being a prop for Lindsay; Lindsay can do just fine on her own...if the writers would let her. Unfortunately, they wanted to force Danny and Lindsay together as a couple and contrived as many reasons as possible to have them work cases together or have scenes together. It's not so much as having Danny as a prop for Lindsay as it was to have them in as many scenes together. Blech.

In scenes where Lindsay is without Danny, she really manages to shine. Although most of you find her acting horrible, I recall that the first time I saw "Silent Night" she made my heartache with her quiet breakdown in the lab. Her geeky delight over figuring out a clue is fun to watch, and she is great working with Mac. She has a fun, teasing tone that Mac responds well to when they work together. They cut back a lot on that at the end of Season Three and almost entirely out of Season Four; I hope they try to give her more scenes like that.

Am I saying Anna is a spectacular actress, worthy of great adulation? Nope. She's ok, but not great. But I don't think she is as awful as people say she is.