On Love Triangles (chock full of *MAJOR SPOILERS*)

[Faylinn]

I wanted to quote this segment about Grissom and Sara:

They do not flirt on the job, they do not make a big thing about their relationship at work and to all intents and purposes, it was only hinted at until we saw them outside of work.

Exactly. When have we seen Danny and Lindsay 'flirting' outside of their jobs? The 'handholding' scene that's so popular among shippers from "City of the Dolls"--they were working. The 'make tracks, cowboy' scene in "Cool Hunter", also popular with shippers--they were working (not even Danny's case, but I digress). Danny asking Lindsay about standing him up on their date in "Love Run Cold"--on the job. Danny whining about going to get pizza in "Love Run Cold"--yep, they were working. Are we noticing a pattern? The only 'moment' they have had that would be considered off-the-job, from what I can recall (which isn't everything, I'm sure), would be meeting for 'drinks' in "Stuck On You." This scene seemed less about Danny and Lindsay and more about Lindsay showing how good of a boss-stalker she is while we watched Mac look smexy playing guitar.

So really, I don't see a reason to expect that things would suddenly change if the writers put Danny and Lindsay in a relationship.

Another of my problems with the idea of Danny/Lindsay, and the one that should really annoy Lindsay fans more than it seems to, is that Lindsay's character in screwed over to accomodate the 'flirting.' "Not What it Looks Like" was a great episode, and gave Lindsay a fantastic chance to show her strength, to lead into her need to prevent other people from seeing their friends die, etc--then came that strange slow-motion-freeze-frame-hug-thing at the end. Wow, what a way to wipe away the rest of that stuff, eh? It suddenly made the whole episode seem like a lead-in to that moment. Not only that, but the ending could have been a chance to show the entire team caring about her, not just Danny. Flack and Stella didn't care about Lindsay? They just assumed she was alright? How did Mac feel when he found out about the situation? Hmm, I guess we'll never know.

That's just one example, but you see what I mean. From what I can see, the pairing doesn't add anything to the show, and instead manages to take away from both individual characters. Seeing D/L in no way gives me any kind of insight into who Danny and/or Lindsay are. In fact, it just makes me wonder if the writers are even aware of who Danny is anymore, and if Lindsay is getting any effort from them. *shrug*

 

[Silencer]

If they do ruin the continuity, it's going to hit them quite hard. Viewers don't like being treated like they're stupid.

And they've used Angell because she's a recognisable character. I agree she shouldn't be used, but for Lindsay to have it out with someone and the threesome drama to work, they have to have a name and some kind of background with Danny. It was established from the outset that Danny knew Angell while she was training and has a fondness for her - hence his and Hawkes' good natured teasing. Viewers aren't emotionally attached to the subway girl, she's not a "good guy" so to speak. Angell is, and it makes for angst within the little circle of our main characters. By creating tension between three major characters, you're drawing everyone else in. Thus, maximum tension. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Angell had been introduced soley for this.

Which is going to make me really really sad, because it's shoddy writing for the sake of ratings, and I don't think they're going to pull it off.

 

[HillHarperHOT]

Okay, I agree with the City of the Dolls episode.

For Cool Hunter, I am a DL Shipper and that still meant nothing to me.

Love Run Cold was after the case and Lindsey looked like she was getting ready to go home, so it was after her shift.

I don't think Lindsey's character is getting screwed over. She still had the dark past like she did when she first got there. Maybe if they were already in a relationship, but since they weren't I don't see how her character is getting screwed over. Plus, she was pregnant and she wasn't around a lot, so maybe they will develop her character later this season or next season.

 

[Silencer]

I'm going to quote this from another thread...

Thing is though... there's "depth" and then there's "depth".

Lindsay has, in all fairness, had a hell of a lot of screentime, mainly in season 2. What, exactly, did we get out of it? Her past is a big dark shadow filled with trauma and pain (and wangst) and she became a CSI because uh... uh... yes. Oh, but she likes Danny. And stalked Mac for a bit.
What do we actually know about Lindsay? What did they do with that massive amount of airtime she got? Answer = they shoved her with Danny. A lot.

As a character - regardless of Anna's acting ability - we know not-much. I don't know why she became a CSI (although I suspect I'm going to find out during the dark!sekrit111!thon we're about to get served). I don't know what her speciality is, what motivates her. I find myself not caring a lot of the time, when they write her stropping about the lab or reacting to things in a totally bizarre way.

Seriously. Tell me what we actually know about Lindsay. And I don't count her "dark secret" as any sort of character development. It was stated in the first to make her interesting and brought up now to deal with Anna's pregnancy. The entire premise of her surviving a massacre in her teens and it suddenly affecting her now, after all of the cases she's done involving teens - specifially the NY/Miami crossover (was it Manhattan Manhunt?) - comes across as hurried and poorly thought out.

What does Lindsay like doing? What motivates her? What is her specific area of interest as a CSI? This is the kind of thing we see dropped into various episodes for the other CSIs - most of Lindsay's development has been with Danny. I believe she is knowledgeable about horses, is up for trying new things and comes from Montana. She has this big vague trauma in her past. Do Lindsay fans not want to know this stuff?

She's being screwed over because they've seemingly put no thought into her at all. She's a main character, and we know about as much about her as we do the secondary characters. I think she's currently on a par with Flack, and she got way more screen time than him last season. They're not allowing her to develop on her own. I know she hasn't been there as long as the others, but we know details of Hammerback's life, and of Adam's. This is what frustrates the life out of me - she was wasted as a main character during season 2, and not there season three because of Anna's pregnancy.

 

[Faylinn]

If they do ruin the continuity, it's going to hit them quite hard. Viewers don't like being treated like they're stupid.

No kidding. Dropping storylines quickly is bad enough, but completely disregarding them like they never existed would piss everybody off.

And they've used Angell because she's a recognisable character...I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Angell had been introduced soley for this.

Which makes me wish they'd drop it instead. I'm all-for the idea of Danny/Angell in principle, but in practice I don't know that the writers could do it. At this point, though, I'd prefer a pairing that we don't know would suck over one that I think already does.

Love Run Cold was after the case and Lindsey looked like she was getting ready to go home, so it was after her shift.

Danny asking if they were 'good' while looking around below the stage where the 'ice queen' was killed was not after anybody's shift.

I don't think Lindsey's character is getting screwed over. She still had the dark past like she did when she first got there. Maybe if they were already in a relationship, but since they weren't I don't see how her character is getting screwed over.

A season and a half into her stay on the show, and her 'dark secret' is all we know about her. We knew more about the other characters within the first season.

Plus, she was pregnant and she wasn't around a lot

Lack of screentime shouldn't keep a character from getting development--look at Hammerback and Adam, for often-used examples of that. I really think we'll have to stop making excuses for Lindsay at some point. She's the new girl, Anna is pregnant, and so on. How many seasons are we going to do that?

ETA: Posting at the same time, Silencer. Good post, and now I feel slightly repetitive.

 

[Silencer]

Which makes me wish they'd drop it instead. I'm all-for the idea of Danny/Angell in principle, but in practice I don't know that the writers could do it. At this point, though, I'd prefer a pairing that we don't know would suck over one that I think already does.

I think that's going to depend entirely on how the actors play it. If there's chemistry, they could pull it off. I just really don't think NY needs a public Danny romance. Maybe the eyesex/hint kind, but we don't need to know what's actually going on. Danny is the one person who I'd do a "Grissom/Sara" with - he's so emotionally complex and Carmine is so good that it could easily be a huge, emotional thing that mainly goes unsaid while he sorts his feelings out. Maybe it's just me, but Danny voicing his love for someone is... weird. Leave us guessing.

We know he's a ladykiller. He can get them. But I think a big, emotional connection for Danny is not going to involve him doing his over-the-top flirt routine. It's going to be more like his relationship with Louie - something he's not entirely comfortable with sharing with everyone and something he guards closely. Shoving him into various relationships is "off" for me.

Which is why I can't get the Danny/Lindsay romance. I guess because it's so...obvious. Didn't Danny once say he'd never date someone from work? Why then go all out to bring a potential romance into the workplace?

Meh, just my two pence.

 

[HillHarperHOT]

Okay, since she is not new any more and not pregnant any more from now on you won't have that excuse used for her. But honestly how could they develop her character, being that she is a main character if she could not do the scenes. I think it is easier for Adam and Hammerback because you don't expect to know much about them. I think once she is back they will develop her character more because we know her secret now. Even though she was pregnant, I think they were waiting for the secret to develop her character.

I still think they can do the not at work thing after there relationship is established.

 

[Silencer]

She DID get the scenes though, in series two. It's sad we learnt more about Lindsay during the first part of series three than all of series two, because they were mainly concerned with her working with Danny.

And they DID get several episodes before Anna left, which were wasted with Lindsay stropping. You know what would have been way better? Had they written Lindsay as confined to the lab for a while after a minor accident, and she's distracted because she's worrying about something. Eventually she goes to see Mac and then leaves - no reasons why, no goodbyes. Mac tells everyone she's gone home for a bit and she'll be back soon.

You then have a cliffhanger which would justify Danny going to Montana to find out why she left, and when he gets there, he learns of the court case. It could also explain the Angell thing, because Danny could feel she's "abandoned" him, and he only later learns the truth. Neat little package.

Instead we got the scenes with Lindsay's histronics, her refusing to work a crime scene, throwing a tantrum at Stella and her breaking down in autopsy. She's a grown woman, and while she's going through a hard time, she's been a CSI for a number of years and should know better. It's disappointing, is all. They could have given her a set of balls and had her behave with dignity and strength.

 

[Faylinn]

Even though she was pregnant, I think they were waiting for the secret to develop her character.

That would make sense if everything about her revolved around her 'secret.' I don't know anybody whose entire life revolves around a single event in their past.

I still think they can do the not at work thing after there relationship is established.

And I still think the show shouldn't have to suffer in any way to accomodate the relationship at any stage.

Silencer, I agree with your stuff about Danny being the type for a less public relationship. I didn't quote you because, well, I don't have anything to add. :lol: *bows down*

The only thing is that I don't recall Danny actually saying he wouldn't date someone from work (unless I forgot something?). I do remember him saying 'that's not funny' when Mac suggested that Danny could fall in love, though, in season 1 ("Till Death Do We Part"). And I flatly refuse to believe that Lindsay walking into the lab in NY would suddenly change Danny's views on everything.

ETA: Posting at the same time, again. :lol: Another good one, Silencer.

 

[Silencer]

Fay - wasn't Danny's remark about dating people at work something to do with Aiden? Gods, this is going to bother the life outta me now. I should maybe ask in a Danny thread.

 

[HillHarperHOT]

Silencer, I think they should have played Anna's pregnancy that way too. It would have made things a lot easier for them filming. In fact until I started reading spoilers I thought that was what they would do.

I do think they could have not had Lindsey's character act so childish, but maybe because they didn't start the story line of her having to leave so well they felt they had to put it there.

 

[Faylinn]

Oh, yes, now I remember. He said something at the end of "Crimes and Misdemeanors" about how 'you're lucky you and I work together, you know that?' (not exact). That's when she made the comment about 'don't get me wrong, you're cute, but I'm way outta your league' (also not exact).

So yep, I forgot something. :lol:

 

[Silencer]

Faylinn said:
Oh, yes, now I remember. He said something at the end of "Crimes and Misdemeanors" about how she was lucky they worked together. That's when she made the comment about him being cute but her being out of his league.

So yep, I forgot something. :lol:

Oh pfft, like I was ever going to remember it in that detail. I just have weird Danny-shaped rememberances. Not that I'm obsessed or anything

But thank you, now I'm not going mad, it's proof that they HAVE altered Danny's character to fit round the romance. And with the remark to Mac about "falling in love", it's really weird he'd go all out to bring this realtionship to the workplace.

Dbl4eva - it's about Lindsay's inconsistancies as a character. They can't decide what they want her to be, and so get these wildy differing responses from her. Had they actually bothered to develop her some and round her as a character, they could have handled Anna leaving a little better than they have. It's sad, because we've had some stunning episodes this season, but running alongside this is this absolutely shoddy Lindsay storyline.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Here's another lurker coming out of the shadows attempting to understand the whole D/L/A "plot."

Faylinn said:
Oh, yes, now I remember. He said something at the end of "Crimes and Misdemeanors" about how 'you're lucky you and I work together, you know that?' (not exact). That's when she made the comment about 'don't get me wrong, you're cute, but I'm way outta your league' (also not exact).

Here's yet another example of where speculation can run amok in this storyline. An argument could be made that Aiden being killed could lead Danny to change his thinking on mixing work and play. The whole "we could all go at any moment so go ahead and take chances, blah, blah, blah." Or something to that effect.

The thing about that scenario, or any other on which has been speculated, is just that. It's all speculation. As many have mentioned before, the story and characters contain so many continuity lapses and big ass black holes where plot and character development should be that almost any resolution seems implausible.

I have never seen S1, but I got S2 DVDs for Christmas. On the commentary it is mentioned at least once, and maybe more, that TPTB are very aware the CSI: NY viewers are not stupid. Perhaps in their attempt to not make a developing storyline obvious, they've gone too far the other way and viewers are going to have to make a Grand Canyon-esqe leap to make sense of the senseless?

Or, maybe TPTB just got trashed one night and someone said, "Hey! I've got a great idea; let's turn Lindsay into a sadist with multiple personalities. Then she can slip Danny the meds. she stopped taking and neuter him while he's unconscious. Danny discovers his balls are, indeed, missing when Angell hits on him at a crime scene. The forensic evidence he uncovers while searching for his balls take him to Montana. He confronts Lindsay, who fabricated her “deep dark secret” so she could hop a plane with said balls - now in a jar of formaldehyde - and bury them on her parents' horse farm. Of course, Danny won't be able to confront Lindsay because - duh - she has his balls in a jar of formaldehyde. His only response will be to take whatever maltreatment she decides to dole out. He also agrees whole heartedly when Lindsay says Angell must be killed for hitting on him. What d'ya think?" And everyone raised their glass of Guinness and shouted in unison, "Brilliant!!"

Damn, after all that speculating, I still haven't made sense of the whole D/L/A "plot." I guess I'm not as smart as the viewers to whom TPTB give so much credit. Back to practicing my Grand Canyon leap.

 

[Faylinn]

Heh, I think I want to marry you and have your babies, PerfectAnomaly. :lol: That was hilarious. But I think you could be right about the writers leaving gaps because they assume we'll be able to fill them in just the way they expect us to. Except that we all have different thought processes and can't read minds. Although that would be handy.

Oh pfft, like I was ever going to remember it in that detail. I just have weird Danny-shaped rememberances. Not that I'm obsessed or anything

Nope, you're not obsessed, and I'm not either. I just, you know, talk about the episodes a lot and remember what happens in them. *shifty eyes* Yeah, that's it.

But thank you, now I'm not going mad

Weeell, you weren't wrong, but to say you're not going mad?...