I don't ship Ryan and Calleigh either (I do love their playful friendly banter like in the begining of SGIYC when Ryan was talking about Cal being a bad driver or something lol), but I do agree with you that there is chemistry there.
Eric/Calleigh romance - why we dislike it. **spoilers**
- Thread starter mjszud
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Florry86
CSI Level Three
We can't deny that EP & JT are great friends also b/c they used to run together, but the chemistry between their characters is undeniable too.
I mean who's the person who didn't enjoye their playful banter right at the beginning of SGIYCSIs when Ryan told her she was a bad driver?
I mean it was playful & funny? And what about also some other cute scenes since s3?
I've never seen somthing like this between Calleigh & Delko & the fact that they're now supposed to be a couple, this thing is even worse.
God forbid the end of the most enjoyable couple of the show ever, our latinlover Bulletman & his blonde hotchick
.I can really picture this show ending with an atomic explosion or something like the earthquake we just had here in Italy with everyone running desperate, devastation & dead people everywhere & so on & so forth with them saying "oh thank god I have you". That's how it's gonna end this show
luvcsimiami
Hit and Run
Deleted...Shouldn't have commented in this thread. Sorry.
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luvcsimiami
Hit and Run
Deleted post.
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mjszud
Captain
We all watch the same show luvcsimiami, & we all have our own opinion. There is nothing wrong with anyone here expressing thier feelings/opinions about disliking the e/c romance, even if it sounds harsh to those who disagree. Not everyone has to like the couple, these characters, or the relationship.
The intention is not to offend fans of this ship, & it isn't meant to be debated. If there are issues here that you don't like then you may want to look past this thread; & if you do peek in, please be sure to leave your emotions at the door.
EDIT: I can see a lot of this "talk" here lately seems to be more about the Ryan/Eric relationship than the dislike of the E/C romance, which is the topic of this thread. It may be wise for someone to open a new thread about that matter instead of attempting a debate here.
Since some of us feel that part of it has to do with the e/c romance, it's fine to add that opinion along, so long as it's part of the topic of this thread, otherwise the heated debate between Eric & Ryan, who's right & who's wrong, needs to be discussed somewhere else.
The intention is not to offend fans of this ship, & it isn't meant to be debated. If there are issues here that you don't like then you may want to look past this thread; & if you do peek in, please be sure to leave your emotions at the door.
EDIT: I can see a lot of this "talk" here lately seems to be more about the Ryan/Eric relationship than the dislike of the E/C romance, which is the topic of this thread. It may be wise for someone to open a new thread about that matter instead of attempting a debate here.
Since some of us feel that part of it has to do with the e/c romance, it's fine to add that opinion along, so long as it's part of the topic of this thread, otherwise the heated debate between Eric & Ryan, who's right & who's wrong, needs to be discussed somewhere else.
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starzsgirl
Captain
First this is a dislike thread, the term that you have referred to is considered out of bounds and offensive. Second the title is very clear about what the thread content is about.
Unfair or not, these are our opinions and we have backed them up with why we feel this way. You are the one who choose to come in and read, no one twisted your arm and forced you.
Yes they have both made mistakes but Ryan is usually the one thrown under the bus, it's rare to see Calleigh or Eric get turned on by the entire team. And lately they have been double teaming a lot of things, including the way they treated someone who is supposed to be a friend. In my opinion friends do not accuse until they hear the whole story and neither wanted to hear what he had to say, nor accept that there was a reason why he could not explain right away. Therefore Eric and Calleigh have been adding the word I or we into team and it does not belong there, they need to band together before the mob gets another person, unless of course they are too busy playing house to care about anyone else.
Ryan was doing what he had to to save Billy, but that doesn't seem to matter that he was putting his life our for another. Eric has been a jerk since he got shot in the head and in my honest opinion he uses the injury as a crutch and expects people to feel sorry for him, and I don't because of how he feels entitled to sympathy and all that jazz.
No Eric didn't wait and that in itself was out of place, perhaps Ryan could not explain because H didn't want anyone else to know quite yet. And no Eric is not responsible for Ryan getting tortured, but instead of staying out all night looking for their team member he and Calleigh went to play house. I find that disgusting and horrible that they would rather play in bed than look for Ryan. He was right there looking for Calleigh when she was kidnapped and worked tirelessly until she was found, seems the favor couldn't be returned. Honestly it's crap that they wouldn't turn out all hands on deck to find Ryan, but they would do so for Calleigh.
Compared to how strong Calleigh used to be and how independent she was, it does come off that she changed herself to fit with Delko, and that is never a smart thing for a woman to do.
I think you contradicted yourself in this statement....discussing different viewpoint is a great thing as well as being able to discuss why or why not a character is a favorite. Just because someone does not like a character does not mean that they have to to fear being picked on because the choose to express said opinions. History can hold a point, but sometimes what matters more is the here and now and how the characters says and does things in the present.
Again you choose to read this thread, therefore what is stated in the title is what content will appear within. It's easy to avoid comments you don't want to deal with, simply do not read them. Also hate is another word that does not sit well on this board, for your information. And your snarky comments about Ryan really have nothing to do with this thread, it's about why people do not like the Eric and Calleigh relationship. If you want to debate Ryan and any other characters, as mjszud suggested, open a new debate thread.
This comment was truly uncalled for, you stated you didn't want to start a fight, but frankly this is why this thread was opened. So people who wanted to express a difference in opinion would not feel attacked or put down because they do not go with the grain.
luvcsimiami
Hit and Run
mjszud
I agree and it wasn't my intent to state that there was anything wrong with disliking them, my issue was with the constant bashing I was seeing of the characters without any examples of where that applied. For instance my stating Eric/Ryan or whoever is a jerk doesn't have much substance without anything to back it up. However, that's my own personal preference for wanting an episode or an example to refer to and I shouldn't have stated how I felt about it here. My apologies.
As for debating I should have used the word discussion as I do like to see other people's point of view and have them see mine even if we disagree.
As for checking my emotions at the door I do that every time I come to this board otherwise I wouldn't look
However, I guess by saying that I felt the criticism was a little harsh implied I myself was taking it personally and that's not what I meant. It was merely an observation that I should have also kept to myself. I've deleted my response to the thread and offer my sincere apologies for debating Eric & Ryan here as well as for commenting at all. Thanks for the feedback.
luvcsimiami
Hit and Run
starzsgirl,
My sincerest apologies for commenting. First and foremost I've only delurked like four times now so I am still learning the rules and I didn't realize that saying something was anti vs dislike was considered out of bounds and offensive. Yes, I read the rules just didn't see this and I apologize I really was not trying to be a smart aleck.
You are correct the thread is clear and I have commented previously but hadn't been back in a while and by the time I caught up it seemed to me that non E/C fans were really put out with these two even more so than before and I was a bit surprised. That was all I meant.
True. Since I actually did agree with some of the issues on the E/C relationship I thought it would be ok for me to state what I thought seemed a little unfair. Apparently I shouldn't have said that either. Unfairly misjudged or not it is others opinions and I shouldn't have commented. My apologies again.
I actually just chalked this up to a problem with the writing as it didn't make much sense that they couldn't find him so everyone called it a day and went home. It's definately an inconsistency with what they did previously and it didn't make much sense so unfortunately it makes E/C look bad again althought they weren't the only ones that went home. Everyone did and that whole piece didn't work especially since no one bothered to ask Ryan where he was or why he didn't answer his phone.
Are you saying that because of her lack of response at the end? Not sure what you're referring to here that's why I'm asking.
You're right I did as I do like to come in and add my own comments about what I don't like about the E/C ship. I was adding my comments to others who were discussing Eric/Ryan. However, those the dislike isn't limited to one thread and when I saw it here as well and it included E/C I thought I would post my comments here as well. My mistake as the debte about Eric and Ryan should go elsewhere.
Now, I have a question. Why is it when someone says something like Eric isn't a man or he's a sap or he follows her around like a puppy dog it's ok. If I say Perfect Ryan then I'm being snarky? Just a question but nevertheless if it offends than it was out of line and I shouldn't have said it so again, my apologies.
I agree my last comment was uncalled for and beleive it or not I didn't mean to post this part. I actually did delete it before posting but I was timed out of the board and so I copied and pasted my response from Word again (I like to spell check there before posting) and forgot to take this last comment out the second time I posted. That's what I get for not checking my post a second time before hitting submit. I'm just now getting the hang of editing my posts so guilty as charged on that one.
That all being said I wasn't trying to attack anyone...I know full well everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I removed the post. I don't know how to delete it but I did remove all the commentary and put a one liner that said it shouldn't be posted.
My sincerest apologies to you starzsgirl and anyone else who read my post before I had a chance to delete it.
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MJ, there is a Ryan/Eric thread here somewhere (not a ship thread, obviously lol).
luvscsimiami, you can edit your posts for up to 24hrs after posting, that way you don't have to double post. About deleting posts, when you click on edit, there's a button that says "go advanced". If you click on that button, at the top you should see a place to delete the post. Hope that helps.
As for the scene at the beginning of WISC, while I would have liked it to have been flashing back and forth between Ryan and the whole rest of the team (mainly Nat who barely gets screentime and no speaking part in this episode), I do understand that the reason for the E/C to Ryan flashing was probably partly due to the writers trying to convey the difference in the secrets the three of them kept. Ryan's kidnapping and being forced to botch a case in order to save an innocent boy, and E/C keeping their relationship secret. As much as I am not an E/C shipper and would rather have not seen these scenes in a Ryan-centric episode, I do understand that partial reason for it was about the secrets.
I also have a technical problem with the scene. It flashed too quickly and I had trouble keeping up. I couldn't even see Ryan's fish decoration or the same leveled bottles on his bathroom shelf in the scene itself. Never saw those until I saw screencaps from the ep. :lol: Although, I am glad that they did the flashes of Ryan's torture rather than show the whole thing in full. I just wouldn't have been able to handle that. :lol:
luvscsimiami, you can edit your posts for up to 24hrs after posting, that way you don't have to double post.
About deleting posts, when you click on edit, there's a button that says "go advanced". If you click on that button, at the top you should see a place to delete the post. Hope that helps. As for the scene at the beginning of WISC, while I would have liked it to have been flashing back and forth between Ryan and the whole rest of the team (mainly Nat who barely gets screentime and no speaking part in this episode), I do understand that the reason for the E/C to Ryan flashing was probably partly due to the writers trying to convey the difference in the secrets the three of them kept. Ryan's kidnapping and being forced to botch a case in order to save an innocent boy, and E/C keeping their relationship secret. As much as I am not an E/C shipper and would rather have not seen these scenes in a Ryan-centric episode, I do understand that partial reason for it was about the secrets.
I also have a technical problem with the scene. It flashed too quickly and I had trouble keeping up. I couldn't even see Ryan's fish decoration or the same leveled bottles on his bathroom shelf in the scene itself. Never saw those until I saw screencaps from the ep. :lol: Although, I am glad that they did the flashes of Ryan's torture rather than show the whole thing in full. I just wouldn't have been able to handle that. :lol:
luvcsimiami
Hit and Run
Thank you GregNickRyanFan, I looked all over for this and finally asked a moderator. I appreciate the help and the paticence with a newbie who has gone back to lurking for the time being.
mjszud
Captain
In part I do agree. The big problem for me is the simple fact that we're still on this E/C story, & it's anything but subtle. What would've been nice is if TPTB had opened a new storyline with someone else who could've had a secret & made the parallel with them. Why does it have to be E/C again? It feels like a rollercoaster ride minus the excitement & added more nausea - exactly where the hell are they going with it?
I see a lot of people just suggesting to put it more in the background so they can keep it around forever. In all honesty, I don't feel like that will do any good. Character arcs are powerful on a show like this - if there's anything going on with one of them, in a relationship, or having some kind of issue - whatever it may be - that "story" tends to stick with them & thier presense - it isn't going to fade into the background until they do away with the story itself.
There was a time when TPTB yanked Yelina from the scripts because they wanted Horatio to "act" on his own & without her. I can see now why they chose that route, because with her in every episode she still would've had that "romantic link" to Horatio (whether it was focused on or not) & it would've felt like we were still on that particular story.
That's how I feel about ECR - when & if they ever give Calleigh some type of story outside of the relationship with Eric, it will still wind up somehow a connection to the relationship, just as Eric's other stories have constantly gone back to being a play off of Calleigh.
NYPTB have done this with Danny, & as much as I'd prefer D/L over E/C, I find it annoying now to see that "unbreakable link" that's now connected to Danny's character - it suddenly gives off the impression that there is no individual left there - you rarely see them on thier own, & that's now what I see with Eric & Calleigh as long as they're in this relationship together. It's very hard when your a fan of a character but not a fan of the relationship that character is in - it tends to suck the life right out of that person you once were so fond of.
I liked Eric & Calleigh as individuals, & when I could see different people from the team be played off thier individual arcs. That was always great to see because you got different perspectives from the characters & it also allowed us to see the difference in thier personalities when interacting with specific characters - they all seem to have a great bond in some way shape or form, whether it's a good solid bond, or needs repair - either way it's still there, & it's a damn shame that we rarely get to see it anymore since E/C have become thier own "unit".
Well, I definitely agree they should have had someone else had a secret. Actually they do, Tara. As much as I don't like Tara, I would have rather they had the flashing back and forth between Ryan cleaning his wounds to Tara stealing pills, taking them, etc. In fact that secret of hers parallels a lot better to Ryan's... because Ryan is forced to do something "bad" and Tara is doing something "bad" of her own accord. Would have made much more sense in the parallel department.
Well, on NY, they do show Danny interacting more with the rest of the cast, investigating cases with them more than with Lindsay. But, that's probably due in part to the fact that she can't go in the field as pregnant as she is. :lol:
I do wish we'd see them separately working cases with the other CSIs more often. I don't think that's too much to ask really. I actually like the D/L pairing to an extent, but even I would get sick of the writers always only having the two of them work cases together and not with the other CSIs.
Delynn
CSI Level One
I liked them as individuals as well. I also liked how they interacted with other team members. I like how they all interacted with each other.
Eric and Natalia made a good team. They really seemed to like each other and enjoyed each other's company without all the heavy drama. For me, Eric is the most likeable when he is around Natalia.
Calleigh and Horatio WERE an outstanding and very impressive team. This is completely and absolutely NOT true anymore so PLEASE tptb, don't make us suffer through another scene with those two. It's painful and they both look like it's all they can do to stand within 10 feet of each other.
Ryan and Calleigh have moments when they work very well together and appear to like each other. As I've stated previously, I don't see the close friendship that others see, but I've seen moments of mutual respect and caring.
I've actually never been much impressed with Calleigh and Natalia as a team. Can't put my finger on it, but they've never been my first choice together.
I love watching Horatio and Natalia work together. While Calleigh forced Ryan to give Natalia a chance when Horatio and Eric were in Rio, Horatio was the one who appeared to spend the most time mentoring Natalia when he returned. They're good together.
Ryan and Natalia are an amazing team. It was really too bad that Natalia didn't play a bigger part in Ryan's episode. I have no doubt if she'd been given a bigger role, and her character had been writen true to form, Natalia, along with Horatio, would have been a compassionate and understanding friend for Ryan.
Ryan and Frank have a way of being snarkly with each other that still leaves no doubt they care about each other. I usually end up laughing as they take a dig at each other and then walk away with a smirk on their face.
I usually enjoy watching Eric and Frank although as with Horatio and Eric, I enjoyed it much more in the past than I do now. Again, I just don't know how to put it into words. I think so much of it is I just don't like Eric and what he's become any more.
NO Ryan and Eric please. Ryan could use some TLC right now, so he needs to be teamed up with Horatio, Natalia or Frank.
Eric and Ryan, imo, are no fun to watch at all. I just don't enjoy the aura of hostility and dislike that always seems to surround them. When Ryan grabbed the guy who shot Eric and declared, "You shot my friend." I was truly surprised. It never dawned on me that Ryan or Eric thought of each other as friends. To be honest, it'd be hard to sell me that Eric ever felt the same for Ryan. The nail in the eye incident was guilt.
Way back when this show first started they mixed and matched everyone. Horatio gave assignments on the scene because the whole team showed up. Horatio worked with Calleigh and Megan, he also worked with Eric and Speed and, as supervisor, he was always on the move checking up on everyone. Eric worked with everyone and so did Calleigh, Speed and Ryan when he came aboard.
Not anymore. As I indicated in a previous post, it's like Eric and Calleigh are a unit and they are above working with anyone else now. They are a team on and off the clock and everyone else can just suck it up and deal.
I'm actually starting to wonder what the hell happened to Horatio's supervisory skills. His character has already taken a beating in the last couple of seasons, now because Eric and Calleigh must be a pair, Horatio gets to look like a incompetent supervisor. But that's for another thread.
SomewhereApart
Prime Suspect
It was also a mirror of an earlier episode -- Power Trip, I believe -- where we saw Eric, Ryan, and Calleigh getting ready before work. So I think it both serves to compare their secrets, and to show how the characters lives/routines (altho the morning was anything but routine for Ryan) have changed in the last half a season or so. It sucks that they didn't balance that with Natalia (aka She of Little-to-No Screentime) or Tara, but I suppose there is only so much time in a teaser. The major arc this season seems to be the Russian mob, and so far that is a Ryan-Calleigh-Eric arc, not any of the other characters.
And I'm with luvcsimiami on the issue of them not looking for Ryan -- that is just all around crappy writing, not necessarily Calleigh and Eric ignoring a friend. You're telling me a guy gets kidnapped from his COUNTY VEHICLE which we know has GPS tracking, and nobody finds it the least bit suspicious that the car spends the night on the side of the road? Calleigh had evidence thrown out because she left her car alone for fifteen minutes. We know that Ryan wasn't answering his calls, we know that at the end of the previous episode H told Eric to keep calling, and then the next morning the whole team is just tra-la-laing like he was never unaccounted for. That's not crappy character choices, that's the good ol' CSI:Miami "continuity? what continuity?" policy rearing its big ugly head.
And can I just say... I ship Calleigh and Eric, but for the love of all that's holy, give someone else some screen time once in a while. Let them work cases with other people, let Natalia on a friggin' case again, and where exactly is Valera??
I think the writers are giving us lots of E/C right now to wrap up the storyline for the season, and hopefully when season 8 rolls around, their relationship will just be part of hte backdrop. There, acknowledged, but not a focus of every storyline.
Florry86
CSI Level Three
Totally agree with you on this. I mean when Calleigh went missing (& hey it was just few minutes Natalia last saw her) everyone went all nervous trying to find her b/c they all knew she was in danger. Not to mention that when she wasn't answering the phone call Eric & Natalia looked immediatly at her GPS tracking, something they NEVER did with Ryan.
I agree that it is about bad writing. I know that CSI:Miami has probably the worst writers ever (except for very few people, like Corey Miller. BTW to me it's a tragedy he left the show) & I'll never stop telling this even if they're reading this thread, b/c that's what I think about them
.But, at the same time, I do think that their writing has been worsening since they first came up with the possibility of E/C storyline. I mean how is it possible they did care about Calleigh's kidnapping (Eric, above all, who almost killed Cooper).
I mean when I see a lot of difference of treatment between some characters & others I do think that the crappy writing isnt' the only reason for crappy storylines.
Look, Calleigh went missing & everyone was worried for her, especially Eric who attacked Cooper (btw I loved it). Everyone wanted to find her.
What about when Ryan went missing? Eric phoned him once & didn't find him & he was like "oh H I can't find him
" with H answering "CALL HIM AGAIN" This wasn't just about crappy writing, this was a ridiculous reaction Eric had towards Ryan's missing.And let's not forget that this bad writing was about Eric & Calleigh sleeping in Calleigh's house (probably also having sex *sorry I have to throw up after this image* ) while Ryan was beaten up like hell??? And you call that just bad writing? I mena their intention was to show us exactly what they showed. Otherwise they would have showed Natalia having a shower or just Calleigh having brakfast (w/o Eric in her bed!!!!).
They did show that Calleigh & Eric are now a couple, they did show them having a normal day as if anything had happened in the meantime, while Ryan was bleeding like hell.
Bad writing or not, that's what they did show to us & that's what people could think of while watching this episode.
I know that Miami has the worst writers ever, but I also know that their intention is all about E/C, right now. Surely that's a bad writing also for the last scene between these 3, but, at the same time it's also about crappy character choices b/c Calleigh (the one before Eric) wouldn't have been calm in that scene. She would have said something or, at least she would have tried to understand what was his problem. I mean he wasn't gambgling, for god sake & she treated him like shit along with Eric in that scene!
And I'd like to add this:
writing a show like this consists also in writing its own characters & their developmente. Once you have bad writing, you'll obviously have also crappy character development.
So, IMHO, telling it's all about crappy writing is like admitting it's all about crappy character development choices, at the same time.
But I guess no one among you E/C fans will ever agree with me
and I won't be mad at it. Just, please, don't post it here so that we'll have a shipping debate, something which, IMHO, should go in a completely different area of this forum I really hope you're right, but I highly doubt it knowing TPTB & also b/c of the fact that writers learned something about continuity, too bad that they learned it just with E/C
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