Eric/Calleigh romance - why we dislike it. **spoilers**

[Delynn]

IDK whether there are some behind the scenes issues or not. I'm pretty sure they exist, but we can't speculate on them and, unless we have a confirmation, nothing happened behind the scenes.

I agree that speculation inherently counter-productive.

BUT, this can't justify Horatio's total absence from this scene.

I do have to respectfully disagree here. As a purely hypothetical exercise, if there are circumstances beyond the control of an actor happening behind the scenes that prohibits him from taking part in a scene, it's neither his nor his character's fault.

Better say this can't justify Calleigh behaviour who didn't trust him.
I do think he knows something about this stuff, but he's more worried because of his family.

Actually I don't think they've shown any indication at all that Horatio knows about Calleigh and Eric's "extra curricular activies". And I don't necessarily find that to mean that Horatio is somehow at fault for not knowing. Calleigh has made a habit of distancing herself from Horatio.

I had a supervisor once who had every reason to believe that two of my co-workers who were married (not to each other) were going to start an affair. He tried everything - even followed them a couple of times trying to stop it before it started. They got by him anyway and it turned into a company nightmare.

Possibely Horatio is the only one who can't be blamed for the whole E/C going on especially this particular moment.
Calleigh is a normal CSI, she's not a lieutenant. She may have more power than Eric, but still when something happens to her she should face her problem with H.

Calleigh is senior to Eric and it is my understanding that she is Horatio's second-in-command. That makes her Eric's supervisor when she is there and Horatio is not. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Spoiler: future

In 7x19 someone is going to attack her and will take her gun off. She'll tell everything to H and H will help her to track down the mob guy and to get her gun back. So I don't think it's that difficult for her to talk with H when she has a problem

Thank you. The interaction this promises is nice to anticipate.

I've always said that I'd love to see Delko fired because of everything he has caused to Calleigh, the team and Miami.
As a person with a bullet still lodged in his brain (also Diddy's character mentioned it in the last episode) he shouldn't be working. Not to metnion that he shouldn't use Calleigh to cover all his mistakes. Of course he's not doing it on purpouse, but once the other CSIs will find it out, they'll be pissed off along with me, Stetler and lot of Miami citizens (some of them were put in jail because of him and I'm quite sure that some of them aren't that guilty....especially Kurt Rossi b/c,IMHO, he was the only one right in that episode)

I don't really want to see Eric fired. But I do want to see him get whatever help he needs to do his job without Calleigh having to constantly cover and hide his struggles. It is just one element that is destroying the integity and ethics of the characters.

He's always pictured like the prince charming he's not, like the perfect guy who every woman should get engaged with. Quite honestly, I wouldn't get together with a guy like Eric Delko, especially the one from "Man Down".
Not to mention that he's pictured like the guy you have to pity. Gosh I don't want this Eric Delko :scream:

Well, Eric wouldn't be my first choice. I want someone who would be an equal partner and not someone who is a dependent boy. To be fair there have been instances in the past when Eric has been a support system for Calleigh. The current Eric, however, seems content to just follow Calleigh around like a little boy.

I'd better stop or the moderators are going to kick my butt for spamming!

 

[mjszud]

Calleigh is senior to Eric and it is my understanding that she is Horatio's second-in-command. That makes her Eric's supervisor when she is there and Horatio is not. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That's how I've always understood it.
I don't think there's anything wrong with age differences (my mother is 7 years older than my father) however, in this case it's more about how she treats him & vice versa that makes me scrunch my nose. She seems to be the controlling one on a professional & personal level when it comes to Eric. That isn't very healthy for him when he already has a problem with being overly dependant of her.

I don't really want to see Eric fired. But I do want to see him get whatever help he needs to do his job without Calleigh having to constantly cover and hide his struggles. It is just one element that is destroying the integity and ethics of the characters.

I fully agree here. It's always baffled me that they've continued on with the aftermath (in numerous accounts), yet he still hasn't faced his issues. Summer hiatus would've been a good time for him to seek some treatment (a mini vacation off screen), maybe take a step down from his CSI level & do some more training to refreshen his memory. In my opinion, he needs HELP, not only in the workplace but also in his self-confidence - something to pull him out of this "whiney-boy" stage.

I think Eric suffers from more than what they've actually shown. He's not only very clingy with Calleigh, but there was a moment with Horatio in Resurrection where he asked "why not me?", & then in the end he was like a desperate little boy looking for acceptance & love when he yelled to Horatio "just you & me". He obviously doesn't have the self confidence that he used to, in love or with his job. It's not very appealing.

 

[abstract]

Thank you for starting this thread, mjszud. I have read through every post and so many of you have echoed my opinions. Time for me to add a few comments of my own.

To my eyes, Eric and Calleigh did not show the least bit of romantic interest in each other until Eric took a bullet to his brain, and tptb decided they were going to put them into a romance. I’m not talking about harmless, friendly, flirting - the kind men and women very often partake in when they have no romantic designs on the other - I’m talking about true romantic interest.

What Calleigh and Eric had was a great friendship. They worked well together, they bantered, they flirted, they supported one another, and Calleigh was always straight forward in showing her disapproval regarding some of Eric’s behavior. Calleigh also had that same kind of friendship (once upon a time) with Horatio, Ryan, and even Speed. Since then the characters have been manipulated to fit this romance storyline. The friendship, I enjoyed very much. It was great to see friendship between a man and woman that had nothing to do with sex or romance, and to see it depicted so well.

Then tptb put a bullet in Eric’s brain and everything changed. Has this relationship been brewing for 7 years? Maybe it was in the back of Ann D’s mind, but it was not conveyed on the screen. I’ve watched every episode and I never once saw these two characters pining for each other until we saw Eric become fixated on Calleigh after his shooting.

Does anyone wonder why these two couldn’t have evolved into a romance based on their friendship/support/trust, etc. before Eric took a bullet to his brain? Was it that the timing wasn't right - or was it that the characters, as they were, weren't right for each other? If this romance has been brewing for 7 years and these two were perfect for each other, then why did it take a bullet to Eric’s brain to make it happen? Am I really supposed to believe that it took nearly dying before Eric could mature and appreciate life? Ok, maybe the job alone, maybe having a friend die in the line of duty, and maybe losing his badge because of his reckless, irresponsible behavior wasn’t enough. Some people need more. But what about supporting his sister through cancer and then losing her to a bullet? And what about going off to Rio to seek revenge and nearly getting killed in the process - those life experiences still weren’t enough? Apparently not. So what do tptb do? They put a bullet in his brain and suddenly they have a clean slate to work with; they can now make Eric's character into whatever they want. To my eyes, what they’ve done is manipulate post-bullet Eric into their vision of the man they imagine women swoon over and want to take care of. And let’s not forget, the man Calleigh could swoon over as well because she sure wasn't swooning before then. Of course it took her nearly dying (again) to see the light, but that's another story.

All this leaves me to wonder...if Eric hadn’t taken a bullet to the brain, and Calleigh hadn’t nearly died (again) would these two have ever developed into a romantic pair? Or did it take manipulating Eric’s character into some sort of Prince Charming for that to happen? I find no appeal in a romance that requires that much effort and unnecessary drama to happen.

And while I’m on the subject, Eric is not the only character tptb have manipulated to fit their vision of romance. The character of Calleigh has been manipulated as well. Am I really to believe that the strong character I watched for 6+ years would sit and sulk on a stool unable to look for a bullet after her lab blew up, and that she would need to wait for Eric - her hero - to come and find it for her? This, mind you, is the same character (who, when not paired with Eric) is able to drive a car into a canal and return to work right away, pull a bullet out of her own Kevlar, and stand up to her would-be rapist. And am I truly supposed to believe that this same by-the-book, full of integrity, character would unnecessarily compromise evidence by putting a bridal veil on her head so Eric could make gooey eyes at her? It wasn't essential to the case; they have dummies they can use for crime reconstruction purposes. Would the Calleigh we had come to know really breach ethics and read his personal psych file when nothing they read could ever stand up in court and the act could cost her her job?

Contrived writing and character manipulation aside, where this burgeoning romance truly ran aground was when Calleigh took the proficiencies for Eric. The very idea that Eric didn’t own up to the cheat sheet and take responsibility for his actions with his superiors, and instead allowed the woman he supposedly loved to take the fall for him is the worst bit of character manipulation I’ve seen. That she had already been kidnapped, personally violated, physically assaulted and nearly raped wasn’t enough, now she has to cover his butt. It doesn’t matter that she said she didn’t mind doing it, he shouldn’t have been ok with it! What man would be? I can’t for the life of me understand how we viewers or Calleigh, for that matter, can respect him after that. I realize that Ann D wanted me to see that Calleigh protecting Eric was ‘love’, but I’m sorry, what I saw was codependent, enabling behavior (the kind of thing one sees in the child of an alcoholic). Had she truly wanted to do what was best for Eric, she would’ve said something along the lines of - I’ll support you no matter what, but for your own good, take the proficiencies and prove to yourself that you are ok. But that wouldn’t have made for an...aw, she must love him...scene would it?

As for chemistry, to my eyes, it’s just not there. I can’t say that these two actors don’t have chemistry together, they do, however they lack that certain something that makes a romance believable. The writers shouldn’t have to hit me on the head with it - the characters ought to be able to convey their romantic feelings and sexual spark without trying so hard. I don’t see it, I have never seen it. I see two actors acting out a storyline.

And for the record - I’m not blind, I’m not jealous, and I’m not a hater, I simply see no appeal in this pairing and I’m tired of it being forced into just about every episode.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Am I really supposed to believe that it took nearly dying before Eric could mature and appreciate life? Ok, maybe the job alone, maybe having a friend die in the line of duty, and maybe losing his badge because of his reckless, irresponsible behavior wasn’t enough. Some people need more. But what about supporting his sister through cancer and then losing her to a bullet?

You know, that's a good point. On Vegas, it only took Nick nearly dying when he was buried alive before Warrick realized it was time for him to settle down with Tina. It didn't take a tragedy happening to himself personally, only to someone close to him (best friend).

 

[luvcsimiami]

Hello all, I’m new to the board and was curious when I saw this post. It’s interesting to see the opposing viewpoint of those who don’t like the E/C arc. As someone who actually likes the storyline, I have to admit after reading this thread I do agree with some of the points made here. I would like to add some of my own observations to this intriguing thread.

First, I do agree that in S1-S4 there wasn’t much indication that Calleigh and Eric were anything but best friends. I do think there were a few episodes in each of these seasons where Eric was a bit more protective than someone being “brotherly” warranted. In my opinion S5 is where mutual interest on both sides started to be more evident. Unlike some I don’t necessarily think the relationship is all that far fetched. It’s actually believable to me because they had such a close friendship and usually friendships like this do tend to go this way at some point. I’m one of those that does think that they have chemistry and actually like the fact that they developed the relationship from a friendship instead of the usual, they met, they hooked up and then suddenly it was hot and heavy. I never saw them as a brother/sister relationship because as someone did say they did flirt as friends and last time I checked most people don’t flirt with someone they think of as a brother or sister.

I do think that Eric Delko as he was before wouldn’t have been a good match for Calleigh for the simple reason that he was a bit of a womanizer. I loved his character and his dynamic with Alexx, Calleigh, Speed, and Horatio. He was a great CSI who did his job well but when the day was over he loved to party. He didn’t start maturing as a character to me until they started dealing with his response to Speed’s death and then introduced Marisol into the picture. I think these two plotlines forced him to grow up and start thinking about someone else’s needs instead of gratifying his own. I actually thought the whole “toothing” thing was actually out of character for him and even Calleigh at one point in that episode says his behavior was atypical of late. I was pretty disappointed that the writers couldn’t come up with something else to show that he had gone off the deep end other than this. As a CSI it definitely didn’t make sense. What I did like about the plot line is that when he realized he had screwed up royally he ran to H he didn’t try to sweep it other the rug. I also think they were slowly building to him really thinking about his life and what he wanted out of it when they introduced the Marisol story. They delved into it more after he got shot and it does make sense that a near death experience will definitely make you rethink your priorities and what you want out of life. This change in Eric makes it believable and a lot more viable that Calleigh could be interested in the new Eric.

That being said, I do agree with those who said they spent so much time with the “will they, won’t they” crap that I think it was dragged out too long for some. I actually got annoyed and just wanted them to either make them a couple already or go away from it completely. Now that they are a couple I definitely don’t want the storyline front and center, but in the background every few episodes where it belongs.

As for the character’s themselves, here are my humble thoughts on the matter:

The Team Dynamic
I do agree that it’s been missing of late. However, a few posted about being upset that no one asked about Calleigh when she was in the hospital and I have to admit I didn’t realize that until it was pointed out. I do agree this was definitely an oversight and frankly it didn’t make much sense. On the flip side I also think this episode was kind of a revisit to a similar episode with Marisol in the hospital. They did the same thing in that episode where it was only Horatio and Eric. Now granted most of the team didn’t know Marisol I wanted to point out that it isn’t as far fetched as it seems if the writers were trying to convey that once again here is a woman they have both known longer than any of the other team members, a woman they both care about very deeply who may or may not survive. The tables are turned of course because it’s Eric who has a more vested interest than Horatio. Is this a stretch? Probably, but I still wanted to throw a different perspective out there. I think it would have been more effective it they had shown a few flashbacks to convey some of the emotion instead of Eric sitting there looking worried for ten minutes.

The other thing about this episode that really bothered me was that Ryan didn’t seem to be affected at all. I kept expecting him to pass out halfway though the episode as well and was more than a little annoyed that he didn’t. It doesn’t seem plausible that he had no side effects just because he got out of the attic first. I wasn’t expecting as severe a reaction as Calleigh but no reaction at all wasn’t believable to me.

Once again Natalia was left back in the office to follow the details just like she was when Eric was shot. I have yet to see her visit any team member in the hospital.

While I actually like seeing Horatio, Eric, and Calliegh get more screen time because they are the original members of the team and honestly, I feel like they should get more screen time (not necessarily in a romantic light) but because they are the main leads to the show; I can see how others who like Frank, Ryan, Natalia, and Dr. Price might not be happy about this state of affairs. I for one actually like it when they do the A and B stories and pair the team with different members and wholeheartedly agree that they need to get back to that.

Calleigh

I feel like Calleigh has been a bit slammed in this thread. Especially regarding the comments about her having lost some of her integrity by covering Eric and not being like that before. I have to say I respectfully disagree. I actually don’t think her covering for someone she is supposed to love is out of character at all for her. I’m specifically thinking of season 3, episode 303 “Under the Influence” where she flat out lied to Horatio for her father when he thought he had killed someone because he was drunk driving. Yes, it was her father but my point in bringing this up is that compromising her ethics has never been a second thought for C when it has to do with someone she loves. I thought this episode was a good example of that because she didn’t think twice about doing this for her father and Eric had nothing to do with it. Eric did something very similar when he was buying marijuana for Marisol. I’m not saying I agree with it I’m just saying that Calleigh has compromised her integrity before and Eric was not in the picture.

I think Calleigh ceased being the old Calleigh we knew when she hooked up with Jake. As strong as she is she has a track record for picking either unstable or needy men. Hagen was unstable, Jake was unstable and Eric is needy – but I think he’s moving away from that…bear with me I’ll support my point on that in a bit. To be fair I would say Jake was more reckless and insensitive which could combine to make an unstable combination. What ticks me off about Calleigh is that she had already dated this guy once who dumped her and left her with no qualms…so why revisit something where you’ve been there done that. Still she gives the guy a second chance and he doesn’t think twice about jeopardizing her standing with the department when he has four drinks and doesn’t bother to fess up to it when she’s under an IAB investigation and it comes up (Calleigh’s response here is to keep Jake’s name out of it and cover for him just like she does for Eric and Eric had nothing to do with her decision here either). Jake’s first response is to run the other direction when he finds out about the fraternization rule. He can’t really be labeled as a good cop or stand up guy since we know Horatio felt compelled to tell him that using drugs with the Crypt Kings is skating a fine line and once you cross it, sometimes you can’t come back. Jake’s response was to retort that his partner got killed for playing it straight. Never mind the fact his partner got killed because his wife was following him NOT because he was playing it straight So maybe in Jake’s mind he thinks he’s doing what he has to do to survive up to and including using drugs and probably women in order to survive. Maybe he is, but does that mean Calleigh is going to date someone like this? It didn’t seem likely and frankly didn’t make much sense to me.

My final observation on Calleigh is the comments regarding her recertifying in order to cover for Eric. I blame the writers for this jacked up explanation because it really doesn’t make any sense for two reasons. I really have a hard time seeing Eric letting her take the fall for this and I have a hard time seeing Calleigh doing it just to cover for Eric. Other little things maybe, but this to me was huge and really didn’t make much sense. Totally out of character for both and I just chalk to this up to a sorry explanation in a bigger plot line.

Eric

I also feel that Eric has taken a lot of heat in this thread as well. I really disagree with those who are blaming him for Calleigh getting kidnapped in All In. Especially since neither he nor Calleigh had any idea she was being watched by Cooper. The episode makes it pretty clear through Cooper’s dialogue that he wanted to take Calleigh down a peg or two because he was so angry at her for his getting fired. Also, Eric had no idea he dropped his cheat sheet card until he saw it on the website Cooper created for Calleigh. Calleigh picked it up and looked at it instead of telling him he dropped it and giving it back to him. The other team members apparently knew it wasn’t Calleigh’s because Ryan made a point of asking “isn’t that Delko’s handwriting?” when he saw the card on the website. Calleigh was kidnapped because Cooper posted her new cell phone number on the website and a criminal called her out on false lead. Calleigh’s new number wasn’t on Eric’s card and had nothing to do with why she was taken.
I do agree that it was NOT okay that Calleigh took the heat for the notes and Delko let her. But again I chalk that up to bad writing and the actors worked with what they had. Mainly because it’s totally out of character for the “old” Delko and the “new” Delko and I hate that they wrote it this way as it just doesn’t make sense for either character. Eric has always taken responsibility for his actions. It may take him awhile but he doesn’t usually let others take the fall for what he’s done. Case in point would be when he realizes that he spilled the beans about Calleigh and Jake to Stetler, the first thing he does is pick up the phone to let her know what he’s done. As a matter of fact he says in that episode he isn’t happy about the relationship but he wouldn’t purposely jam her up. So he wouldn’t jam her up on that but he would when it comes to his notes? Not likely. Just inconsistent writing on the part of TPTB.

I will agree that after he came back from being shot he definitely seemed co-dependent on Calleigh and to some extent H. However, I do feel like he’s progressed a lot in S7 to trying to handle things on his own. The Deluca Motel episode comes to mind where he moved into a hotel and is trying to deal with his own problems when he realizes his digging about his past has caused someone to start following him. Everyone asks Eric what he’s doing at the hotel including Calleigh who goes so far to ask if it has something to do with his family, and he only tells her he’s trying to figure some things out. Ryan goes so far as to go to H with a note he took from Eric’s hotel room and H follows it up on his own. While I give H credit for saying maybe we should let Eric deal with it on his own I find it interesting that in this episode a lot of the team is looking out for Eric and he hasn’t asked them to. This doesn’t seem like the needy character we were seeing before. Even when Eric finds his contact dead in the alley, he doesn’t flee the scene and wait for someone to find the guy and call it in. He calls the murder in himself and when H asks him what he’s doing there and why he wasn’t following protocol, Eric gives it up. He takes out his birth certificate and reveals it to H with no begging, pleading, or whiny eyes present.

In short, I actually like how he is now. He seems quiet, more thoughtful, sensitive but definitely not a whipped puppy. I will agree that his confidence has seemed lacking but I also think that has to do with his realization that he really cares more for Calleigh than he ever did before and frankly is afraid of being rejected. For someone who used to be so sure of himself and hardly if ever heard the word no it probably is a frightening experience. I will also note that his confidence also seemed to be coming back in full force with the episode “Power Trip” where the disillusioned cop actually commits a murder in order to frame the guy he thinks committed the earlier crimes. The cop turns out to be wrong and it’s Delko who tells Calleigh that he thinks the cop is capable of murder based on the way he had seen him acting before. Calleigh tries to tell him she doesn’t think he has enough evidence to go on and he needs to be sure before he starts broadcasting his theory and he abruptly, almost rudely tells her he doesn’t agree. He’s strong, forceful and not at all simpering or giving her begging, pleading whipped puppy dog look when he tells her.

Do I think the writer’s stretched some of the credibility here with the relationship being back and forth and then suddenly I love you…absolutely! But again I also think they missed some major opportunities along the way and the Jake/Calleigh fiasco in the middle of what was supposed to have been a developing romance between E/C made it a whole lot harder to sell. I do agree that it made Calleigh seem callous. The horse trainer didn’t make her look any better. I would have to say of the two Eric has been more consistent than Calleigh. Of course to give her credit I think she likes the new Delko and is having a hard time reconciling him with the old womanizing Delko he used to be which is probably part of her hesitancy, especially since he was having a hard time vocalizing how he felt.

All that aside I think without going into to much detail some of the inconsistencies were explained in Sink or Swim. Delko was hesitant because he knew he was in danger and why pull her into that. Calleigh was doing her dancing because she didn’t want to mess up their friendship and she wanted to be sure that he knew what he wanted. Why his almost being deported changed her mind when his almost dying didn’t is beyond me and another case of bad writing IMHO.

Finally, I want to say that as far as the relationship now I’m glad they made a decision to move forward with it. Ann Donahue did say that there will be repercussions for the relationship but I think to some extent that’s already been pretty much outlined since Eric told Calleigh he would have moved to the night shift to be with her and to satisfy the fraternization policy. I agree with those that it doesn’t need to take over the show, however, I do think that after all the hype and buildup they should deliver what they’ve promised. I also don’t think it’s right to take so much time to build it up and then let it fizzle and turn it into a relationship that didn’t work. That’s unfair to those who really wanted to see them develop this after so much time, and after practically changing the characters to this point it better be worth it.

I for one would love it if the show did something original that hasn’t been done any other show that I've seen and that’s show two people make it work without all the dang drama. The mush and gush isn’t necessary. Imagine two professionals in the workplace doing their job and every 6 episodes or so a little snippet like a sweet phone call about a dinner date, or quick one minute scene outside of work to let viewers know they are still a couple. They have two great actors who I think could sell it with no problem (remember I’m one of those who thinks they have chemistry so please don’t blast me) Switch Delko to the night shift and find ways to include him in some of the investigations. That makes it where C isn’t his supervisor when H is out of pocket and make the relationship something that happens in the background with little reminders every once in a while that these two are an item. This would make most of the viewers happy. Those fans that want to see them together are happy knowing that they are an item without the rest of the fans being subjected to what they consider no chemistry, mush, gush, etc, and those fans that want to see the team as a whole working together are also happy because the show has gotten back to this regular premise with the storyline being about the victim that was killed and how the CSI’s work to solve it.

Honestly, I thought a good episode that followed this formula pretty well without the snippet was “Divorce Party.” There was only once scene with E/C together and that was at the end and in that scene they were professional with no hint of romance going on. Dr. Price, Natalia, Frank, Ryan and Horatio all got screen time and the team was doing what they do best. I especially loved that they added an element of mystery about Dr. Price and you know that’s going to be coming up in a scene soon.

Well, that’s my 10 cents. Thanks for letting me share and please note it wasn’t my intent to offend or argue with anyone just wanted to add my perspective to this thread.

 

[forza juve]

For me the problem is the lack of consideration for the team. I know love is supposed to conquer all. But this is a job where people die. Team dynamics cannot be ignored. The guy next to you should not have to worry whether or not his friend is going to save him or run after his girlfriend. It is just selfish and unprofessional.

Infact I was watching a rerun of season 6 epi last night. Eric apologized to calleigh about telling the iab guy about her and jake. He goes on to say something about how he would transfer to another shift if it were him with her. Now I don't want the team to split up but. still no consideration what so ever.

I only hope the writters do not dismiss this because its eric and calleigh. I want to see H have a conversation with them. A seriuos one from supervisor to sobordonate. I don't want him just to stand up for them blindly just because iab are out to get his team. iab this time has a valid reason to investigate this time.

 

[mjszud]

Team spirit & interaction is already a problem with 'Miami'. If it get's to the point where the team is split down the middle just because of this relationship, I'm going to be even more irritated & annoyed.
I personally would hope that Horatio wouldn't just give into them because it's "them". Horatio looks at that team as his family, & despite the fact that here lately he's a bit distant, I wouldn't think he would want his team split up...his family. Not to mention that all kinds of issues on the job could cause problems for E/C...they're at every crime scene together, & in practically every interrogation room together. Does anyone know the meaning of SPACE?!!!
What happens when there's a problem between these 2, when they disagree on a case...what happens if Calleigh isn't really in this for all the right reasons & it falls apart - then what? What happens to the team?
There's a lot at risk here when you have 2 leads in a relationship - for the couple, for the team, & for the audience.
~~~~
Now someone said something about EC getting screentime & to them it was ok because they are the original members of the team. Well, that is correct, however...this show has been going for 7 seasons now, & if you really think about it, EP & AR were only on the show for a complete 2 seasons before Jon Togo came in in season 3, & then Eva in season 4. It isn't as if these 2 have headed this show for 5 years & THEN came in the newbies, so as far as Im concerned, I don't see that these 2 should grab the spotlight & run with it just because they've had a few more measley years than JT & ELR.
E/C & the actors who portray them, have been overplayed, drawn out, & have taken away loads of screentime & arcs for other characters, and team interaction. That's absolute crap - bottom line.

 

[luvcsimiami]

mjszud,

I was the one that said that the E/C characters had been on the show since the beginning and along with H were the leads on the show. I by no means meant that everyone else was unimportant. I do think that they along with Horatio and Alexx before she left and Speed before he was killed off were pretty instrumental in making the show successful. Now there are only three of the original stars left so I could see why they would be untilized more. I will admit I've never been a huge fan of Ryan or Natalia so it doesn't bug me as much not to see them. I can see how someone who loves them though would be pissed not to see them more because of the whole E/C thing. And while I do like the E/C pairing I do agree with those that it shouldn't become the focus of the show. However, like I said in my other thread, they have hyped it up so much the last two seasons it doesn't seem quite right to dedicate two episodes to it and be done with it when the E/C fans have waited so long to see it come to fruition. That being said I think after next week's episode they've done enough for a while and can come back to it sometime in S8 with the repercussions.

As far as the romance thing itself I'm sure it will be addressed at some point by Horatio but I also think it just plain sucks that there are those that think the couple should be given an ultimatium of stop seeing each other or else. Now I know this isn't real life but I would be pissed if my boss told me I couldn't date someone at work just because the team has an issue with it AND there's a simple way it could be worked out (i.e. someone moving to the night shift so the supervisor thing isn't an issue) I know the relationship isn't believable to some but TPTB are trying to sell it that these two love each other and want to make it work. I think they are going with the you can't help who you fall in love with premise...and I happen to think that's true. That being said there has to be an option other than you can't see each other and you both have to continue to work together with the rest of the team and get over it. Now that may work for the team but how selfish is that on the other side? So instead of E/C being selfish it's everyone else being selfish and saying you can't be together because we all have to be a team and the rules say for that to work you all have to be on the same shift. Somehow that doesn't seem quite fair either.

I'm definately NOT trying to start an argument just responding to your post and really wanting to know your thoughts. Seriously, I know it's a show but it does bring up something that happens all the time. People do fall in love with the folks they work with and it's not surprising because you see them all the time. There are rules in place and usually the options are, one moves to another department and works with another supervisor if there is a slot, one or both quit, or they stop seeing each other. In police situations if they are partners they both get new partners and problem solved. I never thought the stop seeing each other was something that should or could ever be dictated by a boss, superior etc. because you can't force someone to squelch their feelings. However as the boss or superior you do have to make sure the rules are followed and everyone else is held to the same standard. Seems to me in the E/C case Eric already posed the solution in another episode by saying "I'll move to the night shift" problem solved. I don't think it's fair for the "my way or the highway" approach either. These folks do have lives outside of work and the job isn't their lives at least in S7 it isn't I'll admit it used to be before and now it's not. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing since there has to be work/life balance for these folks and forcing someone to break up with someone because the team doesn't like it just doesn't seem right to me.

Please don't blast me I'm really enjoying the discussion and would love to hear your thoughts on this one.

 

[Delynn]

As far as the romance thing itself I'm sure it will be addressed at some point by Horatio but I also think it just plain sucks that there are those that think the couple should be given an ultimatium of stop seeing each other or else. Now I know this isn't real life but I would be pissed if my boss told me I couldn't date someone at work just because the team has an issue with it AND there's a simple way it could be worked out (i.e. someone moving to the night shift so the supervisor thing isn't an issue)

This presupposes that Horatio would be the one to tell them they couldn't date. The fraternization policy isn't of Horatio's making, so he's really not to blame for it.

Besides, I have a feeling that when E/C get "found out", Horatio will be the one forced to step up to save their butts - even though Calleigh hardly gives him the time of day these days. Yea, I know. It's in the script!

I know the relationship isn't believable to some but TPTB are trying to sell it that these two love each other and want to make it work.

I know they are. I know they're trying hard. And you are someone who is enjoying the relationship and you see a chemistry between the characters. For those who aren't buying what they are trying so desperately to sell and who don't see the chemistry, all E/C all the time is very annoying.

I think they are going with the you can't help who you fall in love with premise...and I happen to think that's true. That being said there has to be an option other than you can't see each other and you both have to continue to work together with the rest of the team and get over it. Now that may work for the team but how selfish is that on the other side? So instead of E/C being selfish it's everyone else being selfish and saying you can't be together because we all have to be a team and the rules say for that to work you all have to be on the same shift. Somehow that doesn't seem quite fair either.

I think you're getting way ahead of yourself. There hasn't been any indication whatsoever that TPTB are planning on busting these two up or even giving them grief. Everything looks pretty rosie in that 'ship.

I personally would rather see Calleigh switch to nightshift. I don't really want to lose Eric. Give Calleigh a promotion and put her in charge of the nightshift. They did it on LV for a while.

Switch Calleigh and hire someone else to be Horatio's second-in-command and work dayshift.

Please don't blast me I'm really enjoying the discussion and would love to hear your thoughts on this one.

I don't think anyone here would blast someone whose opinions and concerns are presented as thoughtfully as yours.

 

[Orla_Dark]

Now there are only three of the original stars left so I could see why they would be untilized more. I will admit I've never been a huge fan of Ryan or Natalia so it doesn't bug me as much not to see them.

Sorry, but it don't make any sense. They made Ryan and Natalia main characters, now they with H, Eric and Cal on one line. TPTB don't have problem to give Ryan normal screentime and story arc in season 3-5, the same with Natalia. But when they start this romance, Nat and Ryan was forgotten. I'm not a Natalia fan, but feel bad for her, because she interesting character.

I'm not a GSR fan, but when they start relationship (season 7? I don't remember when exactly) Sara and Gil working with other members of team. In Miami it's Eric always work with Calleigh, it looks like tptb say "hey, they should be together, don't think that she\he can be interesting in someone else". They afraid that we can't catch their hints? :lol: If they wanna EC, do it normal.

mjszud, i agree with you about "they wanna them fit, but still they don't fit", you wrote something like that.

 

[greatfan]

mjszud,

I was the one that said that the E/C characters had been on the show since the beginning and along with H were the leads on the show. I by no means meant that everyone else was unimportant. I do think that they along with Horatio and Alexx before she left and Speed before he was killed off were pretty instrumental in making the show successful. Now there are only three of the original stars left so I could see why they would be untilized more.

The show has remained successful since Speed left and the other cast members joined,which has been several seasons so I don't see why the original 3 need to be utilized to the point that the other characters are not used to their full potential. The show was a sucess before the pairing with the same characters that they are now underusing.
Everyone is just not interested in the "original " three only. Some actually started watching the show because of the other characters.
I tune in for the entire team .

 

[luvcsimiami]

As far as the romance thing itself I'm sure it will be addressed at some point by Horatio but I also think it just plain sucks that there are those that think the couple should be given an ultimatium of stop seeing each other or else. Now I know this isn't real life but I would be pissed if my boss told me I couldn't date someone at work just because the team has an issue with it AND there's a simple way it could be worked out (i.e. someone moving to the night shift so the supervisor thing isn't an issue)

This presupposes that Horatio would be the one to tell them they couldn't date. The fraternization policy isn't of Horatio's making, so he's really not to blame for it.

Besides, I have a feeling that when E/C get "found out", Horatio will be the one forced to step up to save their butts - even though Calleigh hardly gives him the time of day these days. Yea, I know. It's in the script!

Very good point! Of course you're correct the policy isn't of H's making and I know that. Which is why I brought up the whole work place romance thing to begin with, it does happen and there are rules that have to be enforced but it doesn't always mean the couple should be made or has to be made to split up.

I happen to think H will be sympathetic but they'll use poor Stetler to come in and be the jerk again. I don't get the H/C seperation thing either but agree it's in the script. Some of the eps are well written and some of them are just mish mash and it's really making the poor characters seem erratic when I really think it's the actors doing what they can with what they've got. Ah well. We'll see what happens.

I know the relationship isn't believable to some but TPTB are trying to sell it that these two love each other and want to make it work.

I know they are. I know they're trying hard. And you are someone who is enjoying the relationship and you see a chemistry between the characters. For those who aren't buying what they are trying so desperately to sell and who don't see the chemistry, all E/C all the time is very annoying.

True and I can actually see why there are those who don't see it. I haven't seen all of S1 or S2 but even so I didn't really start seeing them going that direction until S5. Unless I missed something and I'll be happy to be proven wrong I'm having a hard time with the we were always going there explanation from Ann Donahue. My question is when were they going to let us know? becasue until S5 it sure wasn't evident to me. I'm not complaining about it but beleive it or not I also agree with you about the all E/C all the time being too much. It doesn't need to be every episode or even every other episode. Just occasional in the background we know they are a thing. I would love to see an episode dedicated to the relationship every once in a while but not all the time.

I guess part of the chemistry for me is I actually do think this is the only pairing that could make sense from a length of time standpint (i.e friendship and co-worker respect standpoint) I never saw the Horatio and Calleigh thing or God forbid the Ryan and Calleigh thing so if they were going to do a pairing of any sort this one makes the most sense IMHO. Just my opinion as I know there are others who STRONGLY disagree with me on that.

I think they are going with the you can't help who you fall in love with premise...and I happen to think that's true. That being said there has to be an option other than you can't see each other and you both have to continue to work together with the rest of the team and get over it. Now that may work for the team but how selfish is that on the other side? So instead of E/C being selfish it's everyone else being selfish and saying you can't be together because we all have to be a team and the rules say for that to work you all have to be on the same shift. Somehow that doesn't seem quite fair either.

I think you're getting way ahead of yourself. There hasn't been any indication whatsoever that TPTB are planning on busting these two up or even giving them grief. Everything looks pretty rosie in that 'ship.

I personally would rather see Calleigh switch to nightshift. I don't really want to lose Eric. Give Calleigh a promotion and put her in charge of the nightshift. They did it on LV for a while.

Switch Calleigh and hire someone else to be Horatio's second-in-command and work dayshift.

That is true but for how long? Let's face it TV shows aren't known for making the character relationships easy and I for one don't want to see another run of the mill "make up to break up" crappy downward spiral. I would love for TPTB to keep them together but if the fans on this thread who hate the match up and in some instances the actual characters themselves now become as vocal as the fans who clamoured for the relationship to come to fruition who knows what the writers will do. I think most of the on most shows TPTB just like to jack with fans to keep them watching. I hope that isn't the case here but it wouldn't surprise me and frankly I would rather they hadn't gone there at all if they intend on messing with the characters more by busting them up later and making the workplace even more difficult.

Great idea about Calleigh by the way. I never thought of that and you're correct they did do that on CSI for awhile. Fans did still see the whole team just in different cases with different supervisors. I didn't think it was all that bad. I would prefer they leave E/C as is but I also want to see the majority of the fans happy and most of us getting some of what we want instead of half of us loving it and the other half hating it. I admit it I'm a peace lover. One can always hope they will find the happy medium.

Please don't blast me I'm really enjoying the discussion and would love to hear your thoughts on this one.

I don't think anyone here would blast someone whose opinions and concerns are presented as thoughtfully as yours.

Thank you very much for that. I was wanting to provide some alternate prospectives and not just exclaim over the whole E/C thing. You all have some legitmate points and it's worth those of us who love E/C to really think about it in light of the whole show. If done right it could be great and could actually convert some of you who don't like it :-D (Hey I can dream...) If done wrong all of us could hate it and be listening to I told you so's for seasons to come.

 

[luvcsimiami]

Now there are only three of the original stars left so I could see why they would be untilized more. I will admit I've never been a huge fan of Ryan or Natalia so it doesn't bug me as much not to see them.
Sorry, but it don't make any sense. They made Ryan and Natalia main characters, now they with H, Eric and Cal on one line. TPTB don't have problem to give Ryan normal screentime and story arc in season 3-5, the same with Natalia. But when they start this romance, Nat and Ryan was forgotten. I'm not a Natalia fan, but feel bad for her, because she interesting character.

Hi Orla_Dark. You do make a good point and I guess what I'm trying to say doesn't make sense and I'm not sure how else to state it. My point really was just me thinking out loud as to why we are seeing E/C more whether it's in a romantic moment like Sink or Swim or just working together like in Divorce Party. I guess I feel like C really more than E was neglected for a bit in previous seasons so they are making up for it now. However, I can see your point about not seeing much of Natalia or Ryan although I would have to say we've been seing way more of Natalia than Ryan. Also, I think in S4 Natalia was exposed as the mole so that was the season finale that was focused on her. In S5 they focused on Eric and his injury as part of the finale. Then in S6 they focused on H for the season finale. C had her drama in the middle of S7 so now Ryan is coming up for the season finale ender of S8.

I'm not a GSR fan, but when they start relationship (season 7? I don't remember when exactly) Sara and Gil working with other members of team. In Miami it's Eric always work with Calleigh, it looks like tptb say "hey, they should be together, don't think that she\he can be interesting in someone else". They afraid that we can't catch their hints? :lol: If they wanna EC, do it normal.

I wasn't a GSR fan either and because of that development I stopped watching CSI altogether. I was already losing interest but I honestly thought the GSR thing was farfetched although I can say they did give us clues along the way. I just kept hoping they wouldn't go there. It really did seem to make much sense for Grissom and seemed a little one-sided on Sara's part. Much like the E/C relationship came about but call it wishful thinking I just feel like E/C do make way more sense than GSR ever did. However, I didn't stick around long enough to see if it worked so probably shouldn't comment to much more on that. I agree with you though the blatant hints are a bit much my lord it's so obvious (if a bit unsure) that we don't need a two by four to see it. Your point is well-taken and if they are going to continue can we tone it down and bring in the rest of the team please.

mjszud, i agree with you about "they wanna them fit, but still they don't fit", you wrote something like that.

 

[mjszud]

However, like I said in my other thread, they have hyped it up so much the last two seasons it doesn't seem quite right to dedicate two episodes to it and be done with it when the E/C fans have waited so long to see it come to fruition

I don't see why the rest of the fans & the entire viewing audience should have to suffer just because some fans have waited so long to see it. You've gotten to see it, in almost every episode & every scene in the past 2 seasons! It doesn't matter that they weren't official yet - the fact is they have still used the past 2 seasons to already show the gist of this relationship - it was explored, they're in love (as were supposed to believe), ok , so what now? Now after they've spent the last 2 years in our faces we have to continue seeing them jumping obstacles just because it's what some fans want.
A personal arc is fine & dandy when used & played properly, but after a while, the show must go on - characters need new stories to further develop them, they need cases to work on that will bring them depth & emotion. A romantic storyline is only going to get them so far, & as long as these 2 characters are IN a romantic storyline - that is what will be more of the spotlight when it comes to these particular characters.
IMO, there just isn't that much more to do with them without turning this show further into a soap opera, & while the E/C fans are all in their glory over it, that's fine - BUT if it continues to be this way, it's going to appaul the other viewers, as it's already done.

As far as the rule & selfishness goes - I never said they should be given an ultimatum. The thing is, this is not a show that's based on the character's personal lives with the team/job taking the backseat - this show is SUPPOSED to be about them as a team, so I do think there is a huge difference with this situation opposed to a couple in real life.

Lately, the team doesn't even look like a team. It's Horatio as the boss who digs in when he needs to; Eric & Calleigh as the team; & Ryan & Natalia are just the "helpers" - there doesn't seem to be any connection there, & what is truly sad is that TPTB actually DID have a connection between all these characters at one time. There are other relationships on this show than just e/c. - Eric/Ryan, Eric/Natalia, Calleigh/Horatio, Calleigh/Ryan, Calleigh/Natalia, Natalia/Ryan, Natalia/Horatio.
They all do have some sort of closeness, bond & connection there - it really aggravates me to see that TPTB make it out as if Eric & Calleigh can only rely on each other. Yeah, sell it elsewhere.

That being said I think after next week's episode they've done enough for a while and can come back to it sometime in S8 with the repercussions.

I highly doubt that. We have them in next week's promo, then in epi 19, & in epi 20, which is even worse considering that is Ryan's centric episode - it shouldn't even be there as far as I'm concerned.
Most likely this will all be in our face up to finale.

Please don't blast me

I don't bash posters, & I wouldn't ever want you to think that I am.
I feel very strongly about the issues in this thread, & I've sat on a lot of these thoughts for 2 years now, as most of us here have. We don't share the same opinion that e/c fans do & that is something that just can't be debated. I don't mind the ongoing discussion, however, there is nothing one can say positive about this couple that will change my mind about them.

The show has remained successful since Speed left and the other cast members joined,which has been several seasons so I don't see why the original 3 need to be utilized to the point that the other characters are not used to their full potential. The show was a sucess before the pairing with the same characters that they are now underusing.
Everyone is just not interested in the "original " three only. Some actually started watching the show because of the other characters.

Very good point, Greatfan. Which is why I don't believe that TPTB need to be so desperate in keeping this E/C story going & going.

 

[luvcsimiami]

mjszud,

I was the one that said that the E/C characters had been on the show since the beginning and along with H were the leads on the show. I by no means meant that everyone else was unimportant. I do think that they along with Horatio and Alexx before she left and Speed before he was killed off were pretty instrumental in making the show successful. Now there are only three of the original stars left so I could see why they would be untilized more.
The show has remained successful since Speed left and the other cast members joined,which has been several seasons so I don't see why the original 3 need to be utilized to the point that the other characters are not used to their full potential. The show was a sucess before the pairing with the same characters that they are now underusing.
Everyone is just not interested in the "original " three only. Some actually started watching the show because of the other characters.
I tune in for the entire team .

Hi Greatfan and as I said on my post to Orla_Dark I'm apparently not stating what I want to state clearly so I'm going to leave it alone. Not trying to ruffle any feathers here it was just a thought as to why we may be seeing more of E/C at the moment instead of everyone else. My favorites are actually H, E, and C. I also loved Alexx and hated that the show let her go. I'll admit I could have tunnel vision in that I'm not nor have I ever been a Ryan or Natalia fan so not seeing them so much probably doesn't bother me like it does others. I do agree though that they do need way more team interaction and not so much E/C. E/R, C/R, N/E and N/C need to be paired for a while and H needs to really deal with the Julia drama and remember he has a team.