Eric/Calleigh romance - why we dislike it. **spoilers**

Discussion in 'CSI: Miami' started by mjszud, Feb 26, 2009.

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  1. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    You know? I really don't see a lot of "jealous" here. I don't "ship" any couple on the show. So my concern with the E/C storyline has nothing to do with jealousy. To reduce it to people being jealous kind of dismisses a lot of valid concerns about this relationship.

    I see people in this thread expressing opinions about a relationship that many feel is very contrived. A relationship that has been shoved down our throats and we have been made to feel like outcasts because we don't see this magic "chemistry". A chemistry many feel is forced and difficult to watch.

    This whole thing was done very badly by TPTB. We have been bombarded and overwhelmed with nothing by E/C while they desperately sell this "relationship".

    As I've stated previously, they've destroyed these characters on the road to this relationship - with Calleigh virtually unrecognizable from the character she was at the start. Her ethics and integrity have been seriously compromised multiple times - somewhat starting with Jake - but she pulled out all the stops then all for the love and protection of Eric. I've lost almost all the respect I ever had for the character.

    When the show started, Horatio and Calleigh were the characters I was drawn to and they became the reason I watched the show - not for a romantic involvement. I felt David and Emily had an amazing chemistry working together and it really showed in the interaction between their characters. Episodes like "Broken" and "Kill Zone" are wonderful examples of two actors with great chemistry making it look effortless.

    Unfortunately HAD is the sad part of all of this. Apparently the working relationship between those characters is gone never to be seen again. I can't help but wonder if part of the reason they don't have those two working together is because it would be a stark example of real chemistry (again not romantic) as opposed to the chemistry they are trying to create that isn't happening for a lot of us.

    Only time will tell when the hype is over (if it ever is) and dust settles if the show gets back to business or we have this "relationship" to in our face every episode.

    But there are a lot of other characters on this show portrayed by some outstanding actors. These characters have the potential for storylines much more interesting to me than E/C in bed.

    So no, jealous is the last word I would use to describe how I feel about this developement. If some fans want to see E/C dating, in bed, in cheesy little love scenes, then create the "Calleigh and Eric" show, spin 'em off and let's get back to business.
     
  2. mjszud

    mjszud Captain

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    Thank you Delynn! That summed up my answer as well. Though, yes, I do obviously ship other pairings, pairings that were once canon as well; my "dislike" for this couple boils down to more than just not liking them.

    As most of us have stated before, it has a lot to do with the lack of chemistry we see between these 2, how TPTB have played it out, & that it's been drawn out & in our faces nearly already taking over CSI:Miami.
    I for one, do not see anything "big" about a couple "hooking up" - not to the extent of it being used the way they have e/c. On this type of show, I don't care to see that much emphasis on any couple. I do watch Miami (& have since the get-go) for reasons beyond "hookups" & "pairings".

    I will be pretty honest here. I know there are a lot of Calleigh fans out there, & I mean no disrespect in what I'm about to say, but everything TPTB have done to build up this relationship has made Calleigh look beyond flaky. I loved this character in the first few seasons, though Eric was actually my favorite. Calleigh's personality & headstrong attitude was what I enjoyed about her.
    Needless to say, now her character just plainly looks nothing more than pathetic, & quite selfish.

    Can anyone honestly tell me that in these past few years they truly believed Calleigh had feelings of love for Eric?! Did it show? Now seriously, ONLY watching the show, & not listening to the actors speak - what would you have taken from her actions in these past 2 seasons?
    Sorry, but I usually go with what I actually SEE in these episodes, & not with what our dear actors like to go out & pimp, & there wasn't a single time that I would've suggested she loved Eric....not even close.

    Now suddenly since her "near death tragedy" she is in love with him. Ok, whatever, but is Calleigh with Eric because she wants to make Eric happy!?! It doesn't look that way to me. Calleigh seems to only be looking out for Calleigh - not thinking about what it did to Eric the past few years while she was with another man; not thinking about the consequences that thier team could face; not thinking about how it could hurt anyone else; not even giving 2 sh*ts that she's been nothing more than dishonest in every one of her actions in the past 2 YEARS. Is that the real Calleigh Duquesne - a selfish ego-driven damsel in distress that suddenly falls for a man because her life has gone to hell?
    After all that they've done these past few years, that is all I can see in her now. If I could see that Eric is what truly makes her happy, then I might feel differently, but everything leading up to that moment in 'Sink or Swim' feels more like a "forced shove" than it does a true feeling from Ms. Duquesne.

    It's very easy for e/c fans like yourself to feel that this will never go stale, or feel that it's been too focused on. You like them, so your opinion is already going to be different in what you see opposed to what WE see.
    The problem is, there are millions of viewers who watch this show weekly. I can guarantee they ALL don't watch for the sake of E/C or any romantic pairing. Keeping e/c together & happy isn't going to make or break this show's ratings. However, an ongoing romantic storyline that's been this focused on will eventually (if it hasn't already for some) go very stale for those folks who watch this show for the crime, science, & drama.
    It's high time TPTB start to think about thier ENTIRE audience & the ENTIRE fanbase!
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  3. inthewind

    inthewind CSI Level Two

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    Great posts here.
    Those who ship fail to realize there are many viewers who don't ship and would prefer those entanglements be minimized in a science-based show such as CSI. A little fleshing out of the characters is needed (especially in CSI Miami) but this over-the-top ratings ploy isn't 'playing in Peoria'.

    Ann Donahue stated in the USA Today article of Eric and Calleigh "needing time to grow out of old identities". Really? How does one grow out of their old identity? Terrific - today I'm 'inthewind' posting on Talk CSI; tomorrow I'll be Angelina Jolie; by Monday I might opt to be Michelle Obama. Huh?

    A personality change made some sense with Eric and his head injury. Calleigh's 'near death' experience was a blatant, but poorly contrived concept, followed by an even less adequate execution. IMO Eric and Calleigh's brother/sister relationship remains that. Such a fuss for such a platonic kiss!

    The chemistry between Horatio/Calleigh in the early years was undeniable. The same could be said for Calleigh/Eric friendship. As Frank says, "It is what it is, it ain't what it ain't; don't make it what it's not". TPTB have lost sight of this along the way.

    One curious question. I thought the intent of this thread was to discuss the feelings of those who are less than ecstatic about this pairing without offending the E/C shippers. A suggestion that they extend that same courtesy to us..........I'm just saying!
     
  4. Florry86

    Florry86 CSI Level Three

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    I haven't been here for ages but I think that everyone wrote such good point even some e/c fans.
    I'm really glad that we're finally having such a good thread where everyone can express their opinion free.

    I have to say that, finally, I enjoyed "Sink or Swim". As much I didn't want them to get together, as much as I hate the kind of storyline they builded up for these 2, I'm really glad they put them together in such a painless episode.
    You can't deny that the premisise weren't good at all.
    So I'm really thankful towards TPTB for having written such a good episode.
    I'm not an E/C, but I enjoyed it &, hopefully, they'll stop with some E/C storylines for a while (I know it won't happen, but let's hope :p).

    I don't consider myself jelaous b/c yes I would have liked them to get together a while ago.
    I've never seen the great chemistry I can see with other people, but still I could have coped with them.
    So you can't say that most of us are jelous. What I saw is that most of us could have coped with this couple, if they had written better storylines for them.
    I do think that Calleigh is not the one I used to like in the past. I can't recognize this "new" Calleigh.

    I'm a Calleigh fan, but I can't deny that I lost my respect for her.
    I'm all for a change/development for a character, but what they did with her moral integrity in term of "helping Eric" went way beyond than changing her life.
    I'm all for her breakdown 'cause she couldn't go on being Bullet Girl, the stubborn girl she has always been. But whenever I see her moral integrity falling down b/c she's helping Eric ( look what she did with his shrink's files), I lose respect for her.
    I can't say she's not my fav. character anymore since it's a fictional character, but I can't deny she's not the one I learned to know &, quite honestly, I don't like her development at all (I do think they did far a better job with Natalia) and if you ask me.....yes I lost my respect for her!! ;)
    Still I love EP :lol:
     
  5. mjszud

    mjszud Captain

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    That's been my qoute for this couple too. ;)
    Sometimes change (SUBTLE changes) can be good for characters, but Ann D. saying that they had to "grow out of thier old identities" is just a huge example of showing how made up this "romance" is! I've been married for 10 years, & I sure as hell didn't need to change my "identity" to fall in love, nor did my husband. :rolleyes:
    It's just not supposed to be that way. If the feelings were there & meant to be so strong then we would have seen it a long time ago, & TPTB wouldn't have had to do a 180 on thier characters just to make them "fit"....& sadly, they still don't fit in my opinion.
     
  6. ThumpyG42

    ThumpyG42 ~Nocturnal Jenn~ Premium Member

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    Before I continue with this post, I'll state that I am not a shipper. As a general rule, I'm against romantic relationships in my CSI shows because they're usually--but not always--handled badly. (NY and D/L I'm looking at you.) So, I'm not coming in here to defend the pairing or tear it down. I have no strong feelings either way. If the writers continue the relationship, fine. If they don't, well that's fine too. I'm an unbiased viewer offering my thoughts, and I speak only for myself. Take them for what you will.

    I can...or at least that there was an attraction between the two. Way back when I first started watching Miami, (when A&E first started showing repeats of the first two seasons several years back), I totally thought the two had been in a relationship in the past, due to the fact that there was a familiarity, an easy chemistry and yes a spark between the two. It wasn't until later that I found out it hadn't happened. Even when Jake appeared on the scene, I still saw the chemistry/sparks between E/C. I still see the chemistry, and think the E/C parts in 'Sink or Swim' were cute, sweet and well done.

    As it's been said before, chemistry is in the eye of the beholder. I see plenty of chemistry between E/C, others see none. I saw zero chemistry between Eric and Natalia, others saw loads of it. I didn't really see much chemistry between Jake and Calleigh, despite liking Jake as a character in his own right...again, others saw chemistry where I didn't. *shrugs* I just hope that whatever route the writers go with this relationship it's handled well.

    (I use E/C, E/N and J/C as examples because they're canon on the show.)
     
  7. mjszud

    mjszud Captain

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    I asked that because I had seen a million times e/c fans be begging in thier posts that Calleigh really had feelings for him - that just sorta tells me that even they had difficulty figuring out what Calleigh felt as well....it didn't always show well if that was TPTB trying to tell us that she loved him.
    I guess for me, I have a problem with a woman who is supposed to have strong feelings for a man & she goes off for 2 years to be with another. ;)
     
  8. vsuga

    vsuga Rookie

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    I think it takes time for intense feelings to develop... You don't start off loving someone from the start... Also sometimes people are blind to whats right in front of them..

    I've said this many times before but I'll say it again... I'm a big fan of Eric and Cal but I don't wanna to see endless epis about their relationship. So i guess I'm in the middle of the ship, LOL
     
  9. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    My interpretation of that statement is, "We need time to totally destroy everything you've come to know and love about these characters over the first 4 seasons so we can fit them into this forced, contrived, no-chemistry love story."

    Agreed with your comment about Eric. While I've always been fond of Eric, I do have to say I've never really had a lot of respect for him. So I didn't really have much to lose. But here's a question. What kind of guy lets the woman he's supposed to love take the blame for his serious issues? Eric let Calleigh take the hit for his "cheat sheet". He let IAB force her to retake her proficiencies, and I'm going to assume that the reason she was forced to retake them appears somewhere in her personnel records.

    I really don't care if she said it was alright and she didn't mind. He needed to be man and step up! Eric has a record of wimping out in the last couple of seasons that seriously calls into question his ability to command any level of respect.

    Calleigh says "jump" and Eric cowers, whimpers and says, "How high, honey?". {puke!}

    And they so destroyed Calleigh I don't know that I can ever find my respect for that character again. I don't know that I can ever like that character again.

    And I agree - that kiss had about as much chemistry and passion as someone kissing a brick wall. :rolleyes:

    Wasn't Calleigh and Eric's friendship the most perfectly sweet and caring relationship? They've completely destroyed that beautiful connection. I sincerely miss that now that I can barely stand to even watch a scene with them any longer.

    Bless Frank! How perfect is that statement for how most of us in this thread feel? I love his way with words and that quote should be the new slogan of those of us who are struggling with the E/C storyline right now.

    I've been a little perplexed by that as well. The thread is clearly marked for content and yet E/C shippers continue to enter and try to justify their ship. Not that everyone isn't welcome, but just as I'm not going to convince an E/C shipper that this relationship contains no elements of chemistry or passion, an E/C shipper is never going to convince me that the E/C relationship is this awesome thing they see it to be.

    I dislike the E/C storyline - intensely. I've grown to dislike and disrespect the Calleigh character immensely, and I'm well on my way to feeling the say way about Eric.
     
  10. mjszud

    mjszud Captain

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    It was very sweet. It's too bad TPTB had to blow it all to hell. What I actually enjoyed was that they were 2 people, both attractive, very good friends & they didn't feel the need to jump into each others pants. It showed that men & women can work closely & it doesn't HAVE to be romantic. Then they go & pull this "love story" out of left field.

    I preferred the earlier days of thier friendship when Calleigh was with Hagen, & Eric knew but could've cared less. Even when Jake first showed up in the first half of season 5, there was no signs that Eric had a problem with her being with anyone else. When he made the comment about Eliiot liking her in 'Urban Hellraisers', again he could've cared less.
    When Eric was dating other women & he talked to Calleigh about them - that was nice; it just showed that there was a great friendship, a brother/sister bond. Those were some of the moments that I really liked about them. Now, like Delynn stated, I can't stand to watch them in scenes together.
     
  11. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    Well, with the ratings in, it looks like the over-hyped E/C "moment" wasn't of sufficient interest help with the numbers. CSI Miami came in second, quite a bit behind The Bachelor. The Bachelor beat CSIM by 65% with the target demographic 18-49. There are qualifiers for DVRs, so a look at the article itself may be helpful.

    I don't watch reality shows and actually find them kind of a plague on TV. But apparently this one was much more interesting to a majority of the target demo than E/C kissing. :rolleyes: Which is really sad when you consider that, to all appearances, the the E/C relationship was designed to bring that demo in.

    Think TPTB got any message from this?

    http://www.futoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20090210abc02
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2009
  12. Maria-EC

    Maria-EC Hit and Run

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    I have to say, I didn't know E/C had so many dislikes. :eek: I mean, I haven't watched the show for very long, but the first episode I saw, I noticed the chemistry between Eric and Calleigh at once. Just by th way they talked to each other, I thought that they could be a couple

    I mean, I think it's wrong to say that E/C doesn't have chemistry, I mean, you MUST be blind not to see that! :)

    I don't have anything against the haters, you are allowed to have different opinions, and I respect them:)

    Oh, and I think that Eric's character will maybe find the happy Calleigh again. Like when she used to be so happy in season 2:)
     
  13. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    [edited out quote as the message had been deleted shortly after being posted; the poster has kindly requested their deleted message not be quoted]


    I have a problem with it, too. But there seem to be many E/C shippers, not all by any means, but some, who are very quick to anger when they see anyone who doesn't agree with them totally.

    Including the statement "you are allowed to have different opinions, and I respect the", and then including a smiley face doesn't negate the passive/aggressive nature of the post itself.

    The reason I was so grateful to see this thread open is because those fans who are of a like mind about the E/C storyline had a place to go and discuss their concerns without their opinions being dismissed or facing an onslaught of E/C shippers telling them there is something wrong with them that they don't see the "magic chemistry".

    I guess it can't be totally escaped. :brickwall:

    I actually see quite well. I will state it again. I don't see any romantic chemistry between Calleigh and Eric.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2009
  14. GregNickRyanFan

    GregNickRyanFan Holographic Moderator Moderator

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    Delynn, I saw that about the Bachelor beating out It may not be because of the subject on Miami and may be more about the fact that it was the Bachelor's season finale.
     
  15. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    True, but 65% of the target audience is a pretty substantial number to lose. Especially since that is who the E/C relationship is designed to attract and "Sink or Swim" was hyped endlessly as the big moment for E/C. It would be hard for me to believe that TPTB aren't somewhat disappointed with all the effort they and the actors involved put out.

    While it may not have been the E/C specifically that caused the substantial drop, it certainly can't be credited with bringing 'em in either.

    All that aside, coming in second to a reality show (for any scripted show) is just sad. I'll never understand what people see in reality shows. :rolleyes:
     
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