CSI Fan Fiction Critique Group.

*flops onto the Critique couch*

How can I post around TalkCSI without adding my two cents here? ;) I practically live in this forum, lol. Hope y'all don't mind.

TQ: Stories written in script format, I find, are very effective when presenting a 'case file' plot. (Since the stories here involve CSI) Not only do these types of plots normally require less description but I find it even easier to follow when it's laid out the way RIPTimSpeedle showcased. A happy-medium between the two.

The only time regular script formats may lose their efficacy is when the author attempts to denote intense emotion or extended timing between responses, as description normally isn't the central focus. Though it is possible to portray emotions efficiently if executed correctly. For example, the way RIPTimSpeedle has mixed dialogue and description or the way punctuation is utilized.

Generally, however script format stories aren't always best if one wishes to write angst or smut, unless they will be acted out. Comedy seems to work well though because of the fast-paced nature of it, which requires next to no description.

Critique: I have got to say, I really enjoyed the fact that you have mixed the two format mediums into your story. Having a script-like story of my own, description isn't something I use. I appreciate the way you have integrated them both and they function together very well.

Something I found problematic, however with your story is that it plays out more like a movie transcript and not a true story--Like adorelo stated. And what I mean by this (because I know you purposefully laid it out to make the reader feel like they were in the show) is it's all presented in present tense which, combined with it being in script format, takes away from the story underneath and makes it seem more like it was meant for viewing and not for reading.

That said, I adore that this is a crossover fic which most authors try to stay away from for many reasons. You really gave yourself a challenge and it works with this particular premise. You found a great way to integrate both teams and it's done in a plausible manner. It's made the story more interesting and leaves much room for the characters to be explored.

You've done a great job and I hope you continue with your story! :)
 
OUT OF TOPIC

I practically live in this forum, lol. Hope y'all don't mind.
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Like you care :p :lol: it's a joke sweetie, I don't MIND having you around, you know how much I adore reading your fics (and of course how much I love you ***smoochies**)

END OF THE OUT OF TOPIC
 
Yay! Look at all these wonderful people. And you're welcome to live in this thread if you want... I'm glad to have you here.

-LLK
 
Welcome to the new people. :) Keep the wonderful opinions coming!

New folks: If ya would like your fic featuring at ANY point, PM myself or LLK with the info. If not, no problem. Come hang out and critique ;)

Kisses xx
 
TQ: I don't mind stories in script format, be it either like you did it, RIPTimSpeedle, or in a traditional script format (those the actors see). However, script stories like you wrote are much easier to follow, no doubt because they are more like a story than the traditional scripts. Both types of formats have their pros and cons...yours has more, oh whats the word?...backstory I guess ("Grissom had told him once that death was the most watched show in Las Vages and now Warrick could see why. No matter where they were or what time of night it was there would always be a couple of people trying to be nosey."). Traditional scripts will have the actors lines and direction, but little else. The rest comes out in the actual show, not the script. So, I think your format of script story is effective...the other kind, not so much.

Critique: Not only did I like the format of the story, I enjoyed the story as well. It was well thought out, and obviously researched. Also, the characters are well written, not OOC. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. I haven't watched CSI: LV for a while due to a pairing on the show that just turns my stomach, nor have I read CSI:LV stories in a while...until now, that is ;). And now I'm realizing how much I've missed by not reading the fanfic. So, thank you for that.

As has already been said...with the writers strike on...care to take a stab at it? ;)

Only suggestions I have are (1) Have your stories reviewed by a beta or someone else to help take care of the spelling, punctuation, and grammar errors and (2) this is very minor as I only found something like this once, but the show takes place in America and it's clear from your use of the word carpark instead of parking lot that you aren't... try to use American vernacular.
 
Okay so I can honestly say that this one has taken me a long time to plunge into this one but I’m not exactly sure I can pinpoint a reason why. Either way, I’m glad that I had the opportunity to read this fic, it wasn’t quite like anything I’ve ever read before and it was a learning experience for me.

Uh, one thing I really really liked is how you kept it exciting even though it was in script format. The utilization of cliffhangers just kept my heart pumping a few extra beats a minute. I admit that I expected it to be kinda boring to me and that absolutely wasn’t the case. Something about the intensity of the situations just really struck me. I really wasn’t expecting it. That’s not to say that I wasn’t confident in your ability, just that I wasn’t confident in your chosen medium. I stand corrected.

I have taken a long time to contemplate how to go about this section. I’m afraid that it’s going to be my longest in this critique and I just don’t think that’s so fair. All I ask is that you hear me out completely with this, I’m not trying to be cruel, but I feel like it’s my job to be brutally honest. There were several mistakes that just jumped off of the page at me, so much so I had to read and reread the story several times to actually grasp any hint of a plot. It wasn’t that the plot wasn’t there, I was just distracted.

To begin with I think I’d like to address the problems you had with spelling.
1. I know that this is being overly nit-picky but in the very first line you use the numeral 5 as opposed to spelling it out, five. In this context that is an error.
2. Skipping ahead a little, please take careful consideration of the spelling of character names. Looking at any official character biography. CSI Wiki, Wikipedia, CBS, even Talk CSI could direct you to the correct spelling. The main characters are:
Sara Sidle.
Warrick Brown
Catherine Willows
Gilbert “Gil” Grissom
Greg Sanders
Nicholas “Nick” Stokes
James “Jim” Brass
David Hodges.
Wendy Simms.
Mandy Webster.
Bobby Dawson
Archie Johnson
Dr. “Doc” Robbins
Sofia Curtis
David Phillips
Veronica “Ronnie” Lake
3. Please consider spelling versus pronunciation of words. It wouldn’t be “Am okay” it would be “I am okay.” And something doesn’t hang “Round Grissom’s neck” but “Around Grissom’s neck.”
4. Consider spacing and formatting of paragraphs. The reporter is speaking and then all of a sudden it switches to more stage direction and you really didn’t separate that out.
It is my most deep and sincere suggestion to you that you get a trustworthy beta to look over your work before you post it. This is very good but all of the technical stuff that is getting in the way just seems to distract from the overall power of what you have written. I know I’m probably being dramatic, but it was very difficult for me to read.

One thing that I could kiss you for, however, is the fact that you obviously did research. There is nothing that I find more appealing about fanfictions when there is clear evidence of research. So when reading all of the medial stuff that came up I can honestly say that I was more than a little impressed. I kinda, sorta, wanted to jump your bones but that wouldn’t be appropriate in the setting, I don’t think. Besides I have no idea if you’re even a legal age. So, we’ll just pretend I didn’t say that, eh? It’s just so amazing to find someone that actually does research. Most people are of the mentality that it’s fanfiction so it doesn’t matter, but good writing is good writing. No matter what. I may bitch and moan about grammar and technical stuff. I just adore evident research. I know... I’m just blabbing on about it, but it’s just so important and great that you research.

As for the TQ: Well, I did theatre for ten years so reading things in play script format is absolutely not foreign to me. Film transcript is a little different, but still manageable. I have a habit of overanalyzing cues and little details in scripts though. I have directed and stage managed several shows over the years so I’m used to looking for the little things. You have to be able to pick out every single prop, stage direction, and cue. So yeah, I’m analytical brained. That’s why I was thinking that this story would be boring for me, but it turned out to be quite the opposite. I guess it’s just perspective.

Overall I think with some editing you have a really amazing piece here. Please don't be discouraged by my strong critique.
 
I know that this is being overly nit-picky but in the very first line you use the numeral 5 as opposed to spelling it out, five. In this context that is an error.
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To clarify for everyone. I had a chat with an English Degree student a few weeks ago when beta-ing LLK's fic (I think) and got his take on the whole number thing.

If the number is 10 or under, spell it out (ie. ten or nine not 10 or 9.)

If the number is over 10, use digits (ie. 114 not one hundred and fourteen)

However, if your are writing a cell number, a pager number, a fax nmber, a house number etc; use digits (ie. 'at house number 9' not at house number nine'. 'Call me on 557828 no 'Call me on five-five-seven-eight-two-eight'.)

OK, I'm done. :)

Keep up the great critiques. I'll be selecting a winner for tomorrow. It's going to be tough.

Jodie
x
 
Yeah, I think it was with one of my fics. I've always known that rule, but I was being silly and actally let it slide through. I don't remember exactly when I learned that... something like... uh.. first or second grade. A long time ago either way.

But yeah, it was me that had that error in my fic. So I'm not saying that I'm any more perfect than anyone else. I'm not.
 
TQ: How effective do you think stories written in script format are? Do you think it takes away from the tone of the piece, or adds to it? Maybe you find it difficult to read and understand? Or maybe you like being able to add your own emotions to the characters. Please discuss.

Winner:

speed_cochrane

Stories written in script format, I find, are very effective when presenting a 'case file' plot. (Since the stories here involve CSI) Not only do these types of plots normally require less description but I find it even easier to follow when it's laid out the way RIPTimSpeedle showcased. A happy-medium between the two.


Everyone had such great ideas this week, it was difficult to choose.

Well done everyone. :)
 
CSI Critique Fanfiction #7: CSI: Crime Scene Investigation, no pairing, “Thigns Fall Apart” by: lostladyknight.

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TQ: How do original characters affect the plot of a story? Do you find them an asset, or a hindrance within a fiction? How do they influence your reading experience overall?
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Thank you to everyone who submitted critiques last week and for everyone who has submitted a piece for critique thus far. I realize how frightening it is when you’re putting your work out there like that. Trust me. I’m almost shaking right now.

I mentioned being interested in doing something a little crazy every eighth week so I have this new plan sorta figured out for next week but I want to iron the kinds out with Jodie before I do, so we’ll see. But I’d still like some feedback as to how you all would feel about something exciting for one week.

The next story will be featured on: Sunday, November 25th, 2007
 
This is my first critique for this group, but since I’m not shy in real life, I’ll just jump right in :)

TQ: How do original characters affect the plot of a story? Do you find them an asset, or a hindrance within a fiction? How do they influence your reading experience overall?

Ah, the old OC question. I’m a little biased in answering this one because I find it easier to write from an outsider’s point of view, probably because when I watch the shows it is as an outsider. I’m not a CSI, not a cop or a lab tech, and neither are any of my OCs. But while I love to write OCs, I’ve discovered that I don’t really like to read them and this is why. Cannon characters already come equipped with a personality, a backstory, a life, a history, all ready for any potential author to use, but original characters don’t have any of that until the author gives it to them. This can make them hard to write in a story full of characters the reader is familiar with. It also makes them hard to keep consistent unless the author takes the time to put together all that information for the OC and stick to it. I’ve found many original characters that I can’t (or don’t want to) get to know, or that flip flop all over the place in personality, or that don’t have any personality. When they are written well, though, an OC can really bring another dimension to a fanfic.

Critique

Things to work on:
A couple of things caught my attention as I read through the three chapters, mostly because they were/are issues I deal with when I write, too. Some of the phraseology was somewhat awkward and was occasionally hard to understand (I think perhaps there were words left out in some places), the flow was a little bumpy, not quite smooth and polished yet. I also noticed that you do a lot of “telling” when you write, as opposed to “showing” with words what is happening, and this is a tough skill to acquire. All of these are things that tend to work themselves out as you write more, and I could see some of them easing a bit already. The awkwardness and bumpiness, for example, seemed to smooth out bit by bit as I read along. The second chapter was stronger than the first, and the third stronger than the second, so I can see the effort you’re putting in and that you’re starting to find your groove for this particular piece.

Your use of punctuation, too, I noticed was a little erratic. Sometimes commas appeared where they probably shouldn’t have been, but sometimes commas and periods didn’t appear at all. And one tiny little nitpick—Warrick’s nickname for Catherine is “Cath” not “Cat” if I remember correctly.

Things that are good:
There were quite a few things I really liked about this piece, too. One thing I noticed right away (even if you hadn’t mentioned it in your author’s notes) was that you did a fair amount of research to make the psychology-related parts as authentic as possible, and it definitely shows. I took enough psych in college to know what the heck Abbie was talking about, but she still sounded extremely knowledgeable and very competent. Archie’s explanation, too, of the online game where he met Abbie was very thorough—enough that even I (the girl stuck in the Super Nintendo era when it comes to gaming) got the idea!

Another thing I noticed quickly was your spot-on characterization of the CSI crew: Catherine’s defense of a woman working in a man’s field, Warrick’s speech patterns, and Greg’s friendly awkwardness. You totally nailed Nick, too, from his love of country music to his folksy Texas personality. I laughed out loud when I got to the part where he was rocking out in the car to Garth Brooks because that was vintage Nick. I could hear his voice in my head as he spoke the words you wrote for him, and that’s not an easy thing to do.

I also liked the way you wrote Abbie. You kept her consistent, which is often hard to do with an original character, yet you gave her complexity so that she was more than just a one-dimensional figure. I liked that she was brusque with her colleagues at the lab, but was so warm and open with Archie. I love the mystery surrounding her move to Vegas, too. You’ve set up this backstory well so far, and I can’t wait to see how it plays out.


My gosh, I hope I didn’t talk your eyeballs off! But I was going for informative (occupational hazard, I suppose—I’m a teacher), so if I informed, then good. I can’t promise I’ll get to critique every week, but I’ll be around as much as I can, and I’m already looking forward to next week’s piece :D
 
*takes a seat in a big squishy beanbag chair*

TQ: OC's can be a hindrance or an asset. It depends totally on how they are portrayed. If they are simply 1D characters with no back story who act only in the way you want them to in order to further your story, they are a nuisance. If you spend time, researching, discovering a personality, a back story for the character they become a wonderful asset.

Critique:

Let's start with OC's seeing as I have them in my mind. Abbie is most definitely an asset. Although I already know from all our PM chats how much effort you put into her character, it is also unbelievably clear in your writing. Right of the bat, you had her down to a T and she never deviated from the way you set her up.

I also quite like the fact that she is not 'perfect'. We have so many OC's and family members who are portrayed as being these socially desirable people, but Abbie is not. She has her own baggage which you make her carry so well. Somehow you make this socially inept, tough woman seem curiously vulnerable. Great job.

Only thing I would say you could improve on was that you told the audience what she was like, rather than showing them through her behaviors. Though you do that too when she is with Archie. Maybe you could make more of her lack of confident social skills.

I would also like to take some responsibility for errors in the spelling/punctuation department. I have beta-ed the majority of those chapters and, as you can see, I am not perfect. So I can't criticize any of the punctuation mistakes without first holding my hands up and saying, 'yeah - my bad'.

As most of you probably know, I study psychology among other things and nothing please me more than the sheer masses of research you have clearly done to make your fiction factual. I hate to read stories when the a character cuts open his tibia and bleeds to death... last time I checked, that was a bone....

So yeah, great job on the research ;) I can always be a source for your other fics if you need me, just so ya know. :lol:

Aside from the plot, which was brilliant as always, the best part of this story was, surprisingly, Abbie. I never thought I'd say that because I rarely use OC's except for suspects or victims,. But you gave her such an interesting complex personality, I look forward to seeing what happens with her rather than the case. I also like her interactions with the others, particularly Archie.

A great job, why were you so nervous?

Jodie

Welcome to the group Zelda. Have fun. :)
 
Sorry...guys I promise I haven't abandoned this thread!!!

TQ: How do original characters affect the plot of a story? Do you find them an asset, or a hindrance within a fiction? How do they influence your reading experience overall?

First off, I would like to comment and say that I think this story has great potential, and I look forward to reading each chapter that you send me.

Critique: I do like original characters, but usually I find myself getting annoyed when they are the focus of a CSI related fan-fiction, and the regular cast is basically centered around them. But, I really like the character of Abbie so I look past that.

I think original characters can be an advantage or disadvantage to any story depending on if the audience can adjust to them. Yes, research is very important, but it’s so much more than that because if you leave the audience feeling indifferent towards the new character than the OC is a mere waste of time. What is the point to keep reading something if you could care less about the character that the story revolves around? But, Abbie is by far a complex character because you had me not liking her at all to me really being able to appreciate the character that you had developed. You allow little bits of her to be explained over time so that it’s not overwhelming to understand or relate to her.

An OC can also be a weakness if they are in fact boring, and live in a sun-shiny filled world and have never overcome any sort of struggles. The world we live in is a mean one, and not one that just surrounds us with beauty. Truth is, we don’t live in a perfect world so I think on that note all OCs should have flaws and emotional scars. Seriously, who hasn’t in their life overcome something damaging or emotional? Anyhow, I like that Abbie isn’t perfect, and has unsettling issues. She’s sort of a reclusive, and she seems strong and unbreakable on the outside, but that’s just a front in my opinion. She has many layers to her, and I just think that is important for a well thought out OC! All in all, I view Abbie as a valuable asset to your story, and I’d really miss her if she wasn’t apart of it!

Besides that, we are all human when we write, and things can easily be overlooked. Of course grammar is just as important as the story itself, but truth is if I’m really into a good story I’m probably not going to notice grammar mistakes so much unless it is overloaded with them.

I think however sometimes you try to over describe things which can boggle down what you are actually trying to write.

I notice that a few have mentioned that you are telling the story too much instead of showing it. I think this is something that happens when we write in 3rd person because it’s usually from a view of someone witnessing what is actually taking place. For example, if you are telling the story through Nick’s eyes with what he is seeing… it’s sort of hard to show instead of tell.

Another thing…and maybe I’m just an over anal writer, but I would pay attention to who is actually telling the story, and try not to shift that around too much within a chapter. Other than that, I really think this is a thought out story. You have done an amazing job at making an OC feel real, and just interesting all around. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to reading chapter 4!!!!
 
TQ: How do original characters affect the plot of a story? Do you find them an asset, or a hindrance within a fiction? How do they influence your reading experience overall?

Firstly, I've always believed that an OC can express parts of the author's creativity that established characters sometimes fall short. An author can either put more of themselves into the character which, while it may sometimes be a challenge, it allows for more flexability and an intimate recognition. (On the author's part)

Depending on how prevenlant the OC is in the story, it can affect the plot three ways (from what I've seen)--either the OC is the central focus while the established characters have a small role/support the created character, the OC plays a more secondary role in support of the established character(s) or the OC has as much affect on the plot as any of the others. It's how the author presents it that will determine whether the OC is an asset or a hinderance.

Normally within fiction, I tend to steer away from stories that involve an original character. Now it's not to say that I don't prefer them--quite the opposite, I have quite a few OCs in one of my fics. However if the author veers the fic away from the premise of what was to be presented (in this case, CSI) and their OC obliterates any focus from the plot, then said character becomes a hinderance. I'd say in this case for the author to perhaps write an original fic not involving CSI. Alternatively, a writer might try to integrate the OC in much the same way LLK has and still stay within the bounds of the plot, all the while the CSI characters as well remain a strong presence, thus the OC is a success and an asset in the story.

As a reader, I definitely look for characterization in an OC. Like adorelo mentioned, one dimensional/flat characters are not appealing to the general audience. To any perspective fic writers--Please take some time on your OC! Get to know them better than you know yourself. Make them complex and if not complex, entertaining.

Critique

Abbie is an asset to this story. It was a bit bumpy for me to accept her at first but it's apparent that she's a complex individual with many sides and much strength, however vulnerable she may be at times. The fact that you have her with a social anxiety issue makes her more likable in my opinion. She's not perfect and she knows it. The audience knows it. (There also seems to be some underlying past issues which I can't wait for to be revealed) This presents the ability to develop Abbie in many ways and it won't be likely that she'll become flat or stagnant.

I actually identifiy myself a little with her, because I have a social anxiety disorder. It's great for me to relate with the character in turn, helping the OC to become even more appealing. I understand parts of what she's going through so I can easily emapathize with her and pull for her success in this story. :)

The way you integrated Abbie's expertise into the plot really helped promote the reason she was brought into the story in the first place. A connection between the OC and the plot is a great way to appeal to the reader. They'll see "Oh, she's helping with the psychological aspect of the suspect. So she wasn't just shoved in there!" Abbie has a purpose.

The plot is interesting and has me wanting to read more, however... *dun dun dun*

The psycho-analytical information that is being presented seems a little like it was copy and pasted. Now, I'm not saying it was--for all I know, you're just really good at reiterating in your own words. :lol: I recommend maybe simplyfing it a bit more for the average-joe. (If you don't want to, there's no need. Just a suggestion for those who can't wrap their brain around some of the info)

Personally, I love how much information there is (I'll be studying criminal psychology in the spring) but forcing it all together--especially while a character is explaining it is a little difficult to read. Maybe breaking it up with more exchanging dialogue or a description here and there. It'll still get the information across, but it will be easier to take in.

That said, research = <3. I see how much work you've put into it and I can't help but to be flabberghasted. It seems you have tried to get every fact correct and haven't deviated from it. :) Awesome job! It boils my blood when fic writers put next to no research into their story. Yours was quite refreshing. :D

I can't wait for the next chapters!
 
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