Why Lindsay Must Go

I have to agree on that, It didn't sound natural and it kinda ruined the whole scene... It looked like she read it of some board someone was holding up in front of her.
It could have been so cute.

 

It could, because we know Anna can do that. She did it with Mac in the archery scene. Maybe the actors themsleves are getting tired of the forced 'ship scenes, I don't know.

 

Exactly! I love forensic science, so much that I am getting my masters degree in it, so when someone asks me about school or science, then I get EXCITED! It is something that I am truly interested in and LOVE.

When Lindsay spewed off the football statistics to Danny is was well, scripted. Yes, she is an actor and she was reciting from a script, so then.... ACT like it is something that you are interested in.

 

I'm a little surprised that people expressing an opinion is considered bashing that should sound a warning bell for democracy. I'm further surprised that people who haven't read this thread have declared it bashing, I call that interesting. It is a little like declaring Keynesian economic theory bashes a free market economy having only read one. Nevertheless, I digress.

I agree with everyone here that has taken Anna's performance to task. I've read in other threads, being a lurker, some theories on her up and mostly down performances; people first blamed the writers and now the directors. Sure, directors change and writers change, but no one else in the cast seems to have trouble maintaining excellent form with the ongoing switch, so that brings us back to Anna. I can't see the problem in telling someone that for part of the audience their performance is not good enough, if those are words she can't handle then she is in the wrong field, because critique comes with the territory. Unless you happen to be her manager, publicist, agent, sibling, friend, spouse, why take it to heart no one is criticizing you liking her, liking her performance, thinking she is cute or sweet. Though I would say wild animals are cute and sweet until they chew off your hand.

Can Anna up the bar and maintain good form in the future, well that remains to be seen, but if the past episodes are any indication the answer is no. What it comes down to is does the show need her, would it suffer without her? I don't know, but it is suffering with her. Her barely animated screen time could be passed onto Hill Harper, an actor more than worthy of some face time. Carmine could find is groove once again without being bothered with staged and annoying encounters that the writers are stabbing us in the eye with of late. Stella, an amazing woman, could whip all those men into shape and subdue the testosterone quotient all by herself. Eddie, brilliant in his delivery of wicked one-liners and portrayal of emotional distress could have more scenes. Then there is the mighty Sinese surely an actor of his proven caliber can recognize mediocrity.

I’m not convinced that the writers are solely at fault and I wonder if a better actor could have pulled off the role with greater success. Her emotional response is never what it should be, something I notice as a viewer. The writing issue comes into play during a scene where Lindsay is explaining her latest discovery in pained and drawn out detail, but I’m of the opinion that better acting could make even that quality a little endearing and quirky even. The attempts at flirting have to be stopped; they aren’t cute, interesting, or mutual. I’m not even sure it is actually Lindsay who has the crush, if you get my meaning, and Danny looks like he has had more than enough, but that could be Carmine, it could be me because I have had enough.

I wouldn’t throw a party if she left, but I would look forward to watching the show with some renewed vigor.


Never thought I’d be compelled to write so much.

Thanks,

f

 

Thank you. That was a wonderful, intelligent post and I enjoyed reading it. I agree with you totally - I'm trying desperately to like her, trying to be objective and see both sides, but the more I do it, the more I get frustrated. Cute and sweet, or even "refreshing" do not a character make. Especially not in a crime show.

If, like you've said, the other characters can step in and fill her role, then I have to question the need for the character. That one paragraph has pointed out that Lindsey has neither her own role, nor her own personality. The flirting with Danny IS now painful and if it gets much worse I think I'm going to stop watching. Which is a horrible thing for me to say, because I love the show.

 

i love lindsy, i don't seem to notice her bad lines...i also don't think you can compare adian with her, since they are very different....

she is one of the few csi character's that actually make believalble scientists....i find the scientific stuff flows from her very well, and as for the way she talks, well, i do that too, when i am talking about anything, i try to take out emotion, and speak in scientific, logical terms. yeah, it probably is boring since i talk like i am a biology textbook, no matter what i am talking about, but i am a scientific person, and thats the approach i see coming from lindsey

the thing that really matters though, is the ratings. the first season was on the verge of being cancelled, and the second season is now up in the top 20, so whether or not it her character is bad or good, the ratings did take a huge increase, so she isn't going anywhere...

its really about perspective. i like lindsey, so i don't find her and danny's chemistry forced at all, i think they are cute together

also, she has had some great lines this season.... "I'll get my boots" lol, her and Mac work great together as well

but i didn't like adian at all, i found her annoying, so thats probably why i do like lindsey. i found adian's lines forced, like whenever she said anything scientific, it really wasn't believable that she actually knew what she was talking about. plus her accent was painful to listen to....danny's is borderline, but hers was thicker...i was actually pretty happy when i heard she was leaving

 

I don't think anyone in this thread has compared Lindsay and Aiden that is a different thread. I feel Lindsay is an inadequate addition to the cast without any comparison necessary.

Television viewers need to make an emotional connection with the characters. They aren't just scientist they are also officers interacting with the community and with each other. Robotic acting just isn’t the best way to achieve a connection.

Your statement about the ratings is absolutly false, the show was not always in the Top 20, but it never veered below the Top 30, and as certainly never in danger of cancellation. The show's renewal came before the season concluded. The original CSI by the way was not a runaway ratings success when it originally premiered. Lindsay is hardly the reason for the ratings boost, but if you are a fan of hers, it is comforting to believe that is true.

It sure seems that for you the issue is not liking Aiden, a funny fact since earlier in your post you stated people should not compare the two characters. This is not about the rest of the cast, but you brought up accents, so do you feel the same way about Danny or Flack's?

It's great that people can name a few cute moments, but I want more than just a few moments here and there I want a character that is consistent and interesting each time she appears on screen.

f

 

Okay, I've read this entire thread through, and I don't thin anyone is really bashing anyone. Bashing is mindless people screaming hateful things in block capitals - that isn't happening. People do have genuine points here, and I have some genuine rebuttals.

People who've read my posts before know that I LOVED Aiden, and that I'm equally head over heals for Lindsay, so I'd call myself balanced.

I don't think Lindsay is inadequate. I think she's not being given a chance by the writers to develop. Since CSI isn't a character-based show, the way the characters are developed is through interaction with others, and Lindsay will never develop whilst only interacting with Mac and Danny (which she mostly does, with occasional bits with Stella thrown in for good measure). I really, really want to see her develop a relationship with people outside Danny and Mac. D/L moments are cute, but frankly, that's not what I'm looking for in a character. My favourite 'ships are where both characters are strong and well-developed, and can stand on their own. I like D/L but I WILL loose interest if Lindsay doesn't start to branch out. I want to see her talk to Hawkes. I want to see her talk to Flack. I want to have her relationship with Stella developed. THEN we can think about what romantic relationships (if any) should be developed.

A lot of the posting here has made me think long and hard about why exactly Lindsay appeals to me, and, in turn, why others are so turned off by her. I boils down to this - Lindsay reminds me of myself. I'm a kid with an English accent in a Scottish school. For those who aren't from the UK, this is not a good thing. I stand out a mile. It's less of an issue now I'm older, people just don't care as much, but I know what it's like to feel completely out of place and out of depth and surrounded by people who look down on you.

Lindsay isn't an immediately likable character. To be blunt, she's a suck-up. She's foisted herself onto Mac, managing to get into his good books early on, because she's insecure and desperately wants approval from the man in charge. I didn't like her in her first few episodes, but frankly, that kinda made me more interested in her. I wanted to know why I didn't like her. Going over those first few moments again and again I realised that I didn’t like her for the same reason people don’t like me. She’s insecure so she’s being pretentious, a little too enthusiastic, too eager to please and generally over-zealous.

People mistake it for a weak, 2D character. It isn’t – she’s over-compensating for her insecurity by hiding it. I’ve seen 2D characters (I still watch Power Rangers, so I know 2D characters) and I’ve seen ones written who are protecting their weak spots (Horatio, Mac, Logan from Law and Order, Elizabeth from Stargate: Atlantis to name but a few) and Lindsay is being written as an insecure person who is covering herself by being over-enthusiastic.

Is it the best way to go about introducing a new character? No. Should the writers let her out of her shell a little more to let the viewers get to know (and like) her? Yes. But does that mean she’s useless, neigh, detrimental and should be thrown out before she even gets a chance.

Hell no.

And frankly, the ratings for this series of CSI New York have been consistently high, meeting and surpassing the bench mark set by last series. So I can’t honestly believe that Lindsay’s presence is having any noticeable effect on the quality of the show.

So I don’t think she should go. People who do can have their opinions, I accept – neigh, respect that. But I don’t think anything said here will make me agree with them. Some do have valid points – that Lindsay isn’t being expanded enough, that she doesn’t have enough interaction with other characters – but I don’t think that’s any reason to junk her. In fact, I think that’s a crappy one. The Lindsay thread here is active and has a healthy and growing population of posters and lurkers. She is loved and appreciated by many people here, and not just the D/L ‘shippers. Hundreds of fledgling fans will go into mourning should she depart - and could a new show like CSI:NY survive the loss of yet another main character, the second in as many years?

I honestly don’t think so.

Edit: Besides, who would they replace her with? Would you like the next character who came along? Do you want Aiden back ? Because Venessa Ferlito left of her own accord, so that really isn't going to happen (sad as that may be). Do you want them to just be a team with Stella as the only woman? 'Cause that seems like a horrible loss. People want Lindsay leave - have they thought about what would happen after her departure? (Seriously, I'm curious.)

 

From my view point the writers are trying to hard to force chemistry that isn't there and to me personaly that is a turn off, the scene with the football stats had me hiding behind a pillow.

Lindsay does have some great one liners but they are mainly with Mac and Stella, she needs to spend some time with Hawkes.

From what I understand there is a episode coming up that should help to add more depth to Lindsay and I really hope that my opinion of her will change. I want to like Lindsay but at the minute I find myself unable to, hopefull in the upcoming episode's this will change.

BTW I think your banner is awesome.

 

Thanks! I find it helpful in a fandom that frequently takes itself too seriously to stand back and poke a little fun at ourselves every now and again. Helpes everyone get things into persepctive. (I mean seriously, I just spent half an hour coming up with an in-depth character anylisis of the sort I usual reserve for doing English plays on Shakespear. How OCD is that?) :lol:

 

I don't think anyone here would disagree with you, in all honesty. That's what a lot of us have been saying from day one. It's those smaller interactions which leave room for the fans to interpret and discuss that makes a character appealing, and makes for stronger ships. Forcing her into relationships with two of the characters isn't helping her characte development, especially when it's the two most popular characters in the show. It hints that they're using Danny and Mac to "bump" Lindsey, instead of letting her stand on her own and interact in a much more natural way. I'm personally disappointed that they've not had her working more with Stella - she's the heart of the NY team.

Beautifully put, and I honestly think you're right. I kind of wish that was expanded on a little more, with moments in-between the over-compensating - have her doubting herself, or asking for help. I think if people DID see more of her weakness, it'd put the character in a rather more favourable position - the same way people love Danny's flaw and weaknesses. Falling or failing isn't always a bad thing for a character.

I'm maybe assuming, but I'm wondering if you connect her insecurity with moving to NY, and maybe her "dark secret"?

The problem is, for me, is that the writers haven't given Lindsey a role in the group. The point is, at the moment, Lindsey doesn't need replacing. If she were to leave, then the rest of the team work just as well. Hawkes was Aiden's replacement, effectively.

I don't want her there because she's a woman. Calleigh has already proven that a male-dominated team can work just as well. I want Lindsey to have her own role within the lab in NY that makes her different from everyone else. (Stella is a strong character on her own - I don't doubt for a second she can carry being the only woman on the team.)

Going back to your previous point - yes, this is down to the writers. She doesn't really stand up on her own at the moment - Lindsey's character almost seems like an afterthought. She's a lovely girl, but has no definition as a CSI. I don't think anyone wants her to be Aiden II, but we would like her to be a woman in her own right. And I do think a large part of that due to her not interacting with most of the team. Give her something that sets her apart, makes her special, and I think she'd grow into an awesome character.

The other thing that was addressed in the thread... was that even with the material they are giving her, Anna often comes across as flat, and that's frustrating. She's not always convincing in the grittier scenes, although she shines when Lindsey is enthusiastic. Being a CSI isn't just about being cute or sweet - it's hard work and takes a good set of brass ones. If Lindsey is lacking in confidence, the writers need to start bringing that out, and Anna needs to work it more.

 

CSI: NY is in fact a character based and character driven show, as Zuiker himself as said numerous times, so this show cannot hide behind the science, it must develop, effective and interesting characters. Characters on character driven dramas are developed through not only their interactions with others but also their interactions with the audience. Anna needs to work better, with whatever the writers give her, it is part of her job to sell a character that is what actors do, they convince you the person they inhabit on screen is real and genuine. Frankly, I think Stella eats her alive in the scenes they share another sign of weak acting. Blaming all the problems with Lindsay on the writers is simply not fair. You can’t truly blame the coach of a football team if his quarterback throws interceptions all year, the blame lies with the coach, but it also lies with the player, in this case, Anna is the player.

Immediate likeability and likeability 17 or 18 episodes into the season without any positive signs on the horizon are worlds apart. This isn't 24, we aren’t dealing with real world time, and Lindsay has been there long enough to get some character development. I don’t think anyone has asked for the keys to her closet so that all of her skeletons can fall out and slam into our heads, but a little something is better than nothing at all, especially when the acting is less than stellar. Characters need to appeal to those that can’t identify with them, I doubt many of us can identify with every character on the show or every character on television, but to an extent escapism is the point so why should we have to see similarities in order to find pleasure.

While Lindsay may be over-compensating, I too have seen enough two-dimensional characters to say that I agree with you, she is not a two-dimensional, because in fact she is not a character at all. She is in fact a set of caricatures, a group of mannerisms, and repetitive actions that should be part of making a character, but the writers have not made it so, so it is exactly what we see on screen each week, heavy breathing when she is confused and thinking, unnecessary information spouted before she finally reveals her information, an obnoxious need to be right. You are right not two-dimensional, but certainly not three-dimensional.

I think she has had a chance, the writers and the actor. How many episodes are enough, 18, 28, 38, Season 6, episode 13?

Sorry, but ratings don’t have a direct correlation to quality. Think reality television.

I think it could, Aiden had her fans and a strong showing in the shipper thread with both Danny and Flack, and the show survived that upheaval. I hardly think Anna’s fanbase leaving is enough to sink the show, she is hardly the reason the majority of viewers tune in, she is hardly the reason the majority of posters on this site tune in, so survive it would.

I don’t think anyone posting here, at least not most, are doing it because they want Aiden back and looking back over the thread I haven’t seen anyone say so. Why would Stella as the only female be a terrible loss, Calleigh handles it just fine (so others seem to think)especially if people believe that Lindsay is a weak addition, better one strong woman than two with only one being quality. I don’t think the show needed Lindsay after Aiden’s departure to begin with and a season or a half season with only one woman, while the writers work on the character, rather than a rush job, and finding someone suitable for the role would be better, at least to me, than what we have now.

f

 

Edit: I should say that this is in reply to Lyn - the next poster posted after I started typing. Hang on, I'll read it through and get back to you.

You make some very valid points. Have you seen Anna in any of her other shows? Medical Investigation, specifically, because the same problem you mention here occured there, too. Anna came over flat with a lot of the grittier stuff she had to do, especially early on. In an interview she said that she started off the series really not liking or connecting to the character (Eva Rossi) that she had to play, so that could have been part of the problem.

However, Anna really can act. Medical Investigation is not the best example because it was never that great, but what little good material DID appear in some of the episodes, Anna eventually ran with beautifully.

Specifically, there are various bits (the season finale, what turned out to be the last ever episode of the show, for a start, in which Eva meets and befriends a frightened litte boy,) in which Anna is fantastic. What most comes to mind, however, if the end scene in 'Little Girl' which was incredibly touching, (Eva reveals herself to have been in the foster-care system as child and talks about being rejected by her birth mother).

It was a sensitive and emotive portrayle of a situation that, without due care, would definitely have come across as corny. Anna made sure it didn't. By the end of it, we had a whole new side of Eva to deal with and the audience were MUCH more resceptive to her. Plus Anna had proved that she is, in fact, amazingly talented. The scene wasn't even that long (around two minutes, right at the very end) and the dialogue was fairly minimal, but the emotion was right there.

If the writers would give something like that to Lindsay then I know Anna could carry it off, and Lindsay would display a part of her that people would find easier to empathise with. I think part of the issue is that she's very difficult to empathise with, only certain people in certain specific situations are really going to 'get' the character at the moment. She needs to show a weakness which EVERYONE will 'get'.

I definitely agree with your point about how the team would pretty mcuh function as is should Lindsay be lifted out right now. I, for one, would miss her, but the team would continue on. The dynamics would hardly change. That's a problem that the writers need to work on. You're right - she definitely needs more of an individual presence.

I do connect her insecurity to moving to NY, more than her 'dark secret', though that could be part of it. I think she's anxious because she's in a new place that is not at all similar to the place she started fro. Her 'dark secret' is liable to remain one for some time and if it's half as dark as it's supposed to be, she's probably buried it.

I do agree that she needs to be shown between her over-compensating. She did ask Danny for help in 'Necrophelia America', and it was a pretty funny moment, but I actually would have found it more interesting if she'd had that conversation with Stella (not about anymous callers, but about how phone-sex can be enough to keep a guy interested). That would have set up a much better defined relationship between the two women on the team, had Lindsay shown herself to be confused and more than a little frustrated with the notion, and Stella, in her infinite wisdom, attempted to explain it to her.

We need more Stella-Lindsay cases, definitely. Stella is the emotional core of the team, just as Mac is it's professional one, and in order to have any standing, Lindsay needs a definite relationship with Stella so that the others can... I don't know - 'triangulate' around it, so to speak. If we were to view the team as a sort of professional family, (and this is a VERY rough approximation being thought up at twenty past midnight by a bored insomniac, so bare with me for a moment here, folks) you'd have Mac and Stella as the mother and father, Flack as the big brother, Danny the younger one and Hawkes as the sweet, distant cousin who's sleeping in their basement - with perhaps Hammerbach and Adam the DNA guy as their creepy neighbours from down the street who always keep the curtains drawn.

But it's not clear where Lindsay fits into all of this. To make it clear, she needs an individual relationship with everyone on the team. She seems to have a vaguely parental relationship with Mac, and a flirty sibling-ish one with Danny. But that's it. She mighth just about qualify as Stella's neighbour-who-is-never-in-but-occasionally-pops-round-to-borrow-a-cup-of-sugar-at-two-in-the-morning, and she has NO relationship with Flack or Hawkes.

CLEARLY something needs to be done about that.

Anna did say in an interview that she wasn't being allowed to work with Hill Harper (Hawkes) because both Lindsay and Hawkes were rookies and so couldn't be partnered up until they had more experiance. She has expressed an interest in working with him more often (they've been on another show together and are still friends), and did mention that the writers were working on something where they get to work together, so there IS hope, at least on that count. As for her getting to know poor old Flack, we can only hope that the writers heed this distant call from the dim and distant land of fandom.

 

Lindsay is so enthousiastic about science, which I love. I don't need to know WHY she's a CSI. She just loves to be one. There doesn't have to be something deep which made her do this job, y'know.

 

Okay, kidder, what you're saying makes sense but I don't agree with a lot of it. However, I really can't start answering all the points you made right now - it's quarter to one AM where I am, and I'm exhausted, so I'm going to bed right now. I WILL get back to you in the morning, as soon as I have my brain on straight.