Why Lindsay Must Go

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Gnimaerd said:
Sweetheart, this thread is all about reasons. You're not furthering your 'cause by being so blunt.

1. I think adding a new character to a show very quickly after another charcter leaves can ruin the new charatcer's potential.

2. It seems as though Lindsay is too eager to please Mac, and will end up back-stabbing her colleages. I think she's going to try and prove herself better than the rest and end up filing miserably.

I'm sure I'll have more later on.
 
needmorecsi said:
1. I think adding a new character to a show very quickly after another charcter leaves can ruin the new charatcer's potential.

I'm sure I'll have more later on.

needmorecsi, what is your reasoning behind this? I don't want to sound as though I'm picking on you, I'm just really interested as to where that statement comes from. ;)

I'm not sure that Lindsay would have been better off coming into the show a couple of episodes later. If she did, would the writers have written her character differently?
Me, I don't think so. It's true, she came in awfully quick after Aiden had left. But then, the writers knew Vanessa Ferlito was leaving, didn't they? Thus, they had some forewarning.

I'm trying to come up with an example from a different show about replacing characters, but nothing fitting comes to mind. Maybe NCIS? After Kate had died, she was almost immediatly replaced with Ziva. And it worked.
( I don't want to get into a NCIS-discussion, and it's terribly off-topic, I know. But that was the only thing that came to my mind right now.)

I'm not sure that timing was important in this case, as Lindsay is so differently to Aiden. It's not the timing, but what the writers do with her character.

Hyzenthlay came up with an interisting statement:
Then after those first few episodes we were given nothing else until she was suddenly attatched to Danny's arse and her character brief did a quick 180. Instead of a girl who watched and learnt and tried to imitate her peers, she suddenly became a bull in a china shop; trying too hard to sound tough with clearly innocent subjects, seeking constant pats on the head and acting like a rookie CSI, not just someone who was new to the lab. Meanwhile the other characters are left reacting to two different Lindsays, because the writers refuse to acknowledge the inconsistancies in the writing.

Absolutely. My main problem with Lindsay is how the writers began to portray her so differently. I like her most of the time: I like her when she's really into her work, when she gets all playful. Remember in 'Stuck On You' (I think) when she got to try the bow? It's nice to see her like that.

On the other hand, the scenes between her and Danny are getting - I'm in lack of a better word here - pathetic. It seems as though the writers come up with these scenes just for the sake of them. Maybe they're doing them to add to Lindsay's character (what my suspicion is), but WTF? Is the reasoning behind this that a series is in need of a love story? Trust me, the fans are pairing up the characters according to their own taste, anyway. ;)
If the writers want to add more layers to her character, then they need to sit down and make sure where they want her to come from.

As always, I'm digressing terribly. And sometimes, my English just isn't enough to convey what I'm thinking. Forgive me for that. :)

Re: Anna's acting - what do you other guys make of it?
The question came up a couple of posts before and, although I'm not gonna give my two cents to it, I'm interested in how other people see it.
 
I watched only few episodes of season 2, cause in Italy we had only season 1...well, she seems to me totally unexpressive, always the same look on her face (thinking "oh my god, what am I doing in this show?")...this is my first impression....
 
FIrst of all i just wanted to tell y'all that this is a great thread coz it's not simply attcking Lindsey without reason. I couldn't be bthered to read the whole thing, though i agree with most of what ppl have said.
I think that the initial character traits given to Lindsey were great. But now she doesn't have a character anymore!!! she's here she's there she's everywhere! the writers din't define her character or allow it to open up at all. Now she is just THERE.
the acting on her part is not great either, maybe because she doesn't get along with the cast (?). Anna gives the feeling of wanting to be done with the lines and she doesn't seem to be understanding her own character. I think the writers would have done better to make annna a native new-yorker and from there build up her character as a driven scientist who enjoys her work.
i don't know if y'all agree but that's my opinion...

cheers
 
LiquidCrystal said:
Regarding the rating comments...While Ratings don't necessarily = Quality, we do have to remember Ratings = Viewers = Advertising = Money. In TV Land that's what matters most, to either your pleasure or pain. See I'm better at explaining myself with equations, but then what can you expect from someone who was disappointed they couldn't take Economic Calculus because there weren't enough students. Next I'll posting pie charts, and linear regressions with trend analysis, SCAREY! :lol: *SIGH* Some of us just can never get our words out straight, I guess. As long as you get the jist of it, really. What we need is some psych major who can draw up a Myers-Briggs profile for Miss Monroe. That would solve EVERYTHING. Maybe not. Maybe I'm just one more too many of the Educated Idiots who needs to kick back and veg like the Illiterate Prodigies out there.

No one is denying or arguing in here that higher ratings mean the networks can assign a higher value to advertising, in fact I believe I stated as much in the Aiden or Lindsay thread, possibly in response to one of your posts, so I derive neither pleasure nor pain. Having a father who is a former network man I am more than familiar with the concept. However, we also have to follow the logic of the statements made and not take any of them out of context. The original statement was that NY was on the verge of being cancelled, a falsity stated by Gnimaerd, which Kidder countered with the fact that the statement was entirely inaccurate. Gnimaerd countered with the notion that because people keep tuning in (ratings) the quality must be status quo, therefore Lindsay cannot be a detriment, and finally, I countered that high ratings have nothing to do with quality. The notion of revenue never played into the equation. However, if you are suggesting that Lindsay is the sole factor for the slightly higher than last season ratings, well first I would chuckle softly to myself knowing that in television and with ratings it is never that simple, then I would say that NY’s ratings have been higher since the beginning of the season, the first episode in fact which was pleasantly Lindsay free, and there was no abrupt spike with Lindsay’s arrival. I would also note that the lowest rating for the season occurred while she was on the show. However, I attribute neither her arrival nor presence to the ratings highs or lows. I am not a network executive and my only concern when it comes to NY is quality and I feel the way Lindsay is written and portrayed leaves a blemish.

Maybe after the writers give her a character she can be the subject of a Myers-Briggs test, but she is lacking the most important factor for the test, a personality, maybe it could help her find a career to which she is better suited though.

Ali
 
Lots of good stuff again, but two people have posed a question about Anna, so I'll answer it.

I'm starting to think that part of this might be a simple miscasting. As others have said, Lindsay often doesn't convince as a cop or a CSI, and a lot of that really is Anna. She's good in the light moments, but in the darker and intense ones she's greatly lacking. I rolled my eyes at her when she was working the Lillian Stanwick case and when she went off on Charlene, and that's not how I should be reacting to a character I'm supposed to take seriously.

I think Anna's performance is uneven overall, but I guess recently it seems to have declined a bit in my eyes. Even though I didn't like Lindsay when she was showing off to impress Mac (and now Danny), she is believable in those scenes. As someone else noted, it's darn frustrating when Lindsay is supposed to be giving evidence and she feels the need to show off by bragging about how she got to it. It grates, much more than when the other characters do it, because Lindsay seems to do it all the time. But again, Anna convinces in those scenes.

Her best scenes are ones of genuine excitement--like when she shot the arrow in "Stuck on You" or went over the guitars with Mac, or eagerly waited for Danny to show up at the bar and then proved her point about Mac. I believe her and even like her in these scenes. Anna has a girlish enthusiasm that translates well to the screen.

But I don't buy her "tough" act--she comes across as shrill (with the first phone sex guy or Charlene) or false or just off. Melina absolutely has me convinced and right there with her every time Stella takes a suspect to task, but for whatever reason, Anna just doesn't. She's better in the scenes where she's inquisitive rather than judgmental and condemning.

I believe Lindsay wants to do her best and that she wants Danny. But do I believe that she is tough enough to be a cop? Not really. And that's probably part of the problem of it for me.

EDIT: I also find the perspective of people who liked the character initially but don't now very interesting. I wonder if anyone feels the reverse--didn't like her initially but now does?
 
However, if you are suggesting that Lindsay is the sole factor for the slightly higher than last season ratings, well first I would chuckle softly to myself knowing that in television and with ratings it is never that simple, then I would say that NY’s ratings have been higher since the beginning of the season, the first episode in fact which was pleasantly Lindsay free, and there was no abrupt spike with Lindsay’s arrival.

I never said Lindsay was the sole factor. She's more like a "dummy variable" in the equatian, though I will say she doesn't have a negative coefficient to that ratings equatian, which in the end may or may not have a high degree of correlation. Oh friggin' hey, now I'm talking stats. Someone please stop me before I hurt myself. :lol: I sound like a text book. Wasn't I supposted to stop being an Educated Idiot??? I AGREE she needs some character development. Take or leave it the Myers-Briggs thing was a joke, sheesh.

Top, I donno if "shrill" works for me, maybe a little desparate? Shrill suggests some sort of intensity, to me at least.
 
LiquidCrystal said:
However, if you are suggesting that Lindsay is the sole factor for the slightly higher than last season ratings, well first I would chuckle softly to myself knowing that in television and with ratings it is never that simple, then I would say that NY’s ratings have been higher since the beginning of the season, the first episode in fact which was pleasantly Lindsay free, and there was no abrupt spike with Lindsay’s arrival.

I never said Lindsay was the sole factor. She's more like a "dummy variable" in the equatian, though I will say she doesn't have a negative coefficient to that ratings equatian, which in the end may or may not have a high degree of correlation. Oh friggin' hey, now I'm talking stats. Someone please stop me before I hurt myself. :lol: I sound like a text book. Wasn't I supposted to stop being an Educated Idiot??? I AGREE she needs some character development. Take or leave it the Myers-Briggs thing was a joke, sheesh.

Top, I donno if "shrill" works for me, maybe a little desparate? Shrill suggests some sort of intensity, to me at least.


Dummy variable, descriptive, correlation coefficients, inferential, regression equations, so on and so forth, my point was Lindsay’s presence is insignificant on the ratings, for better or for worse, however I care not a bit because quality is my concern and she is not quality, she is vapid, moronic, shrill (yes, shrill), as in austere, inhospitable, callous, piercing, and basically an unnecessary addition to the cast.

Your caps lock got stuck again, remember when that happened in the Aiden or Lindsay thread, but this time a bolding and underlining of the letters was thrown into the mix, almost as if you had stated in your earlier post that Lindsay needed character development, which by the way you did not, perhaps you meant to do so and forgot. However, nice to see that you think she needs some character development, I would take it a bit farther and say she needs character period.

I am, however, willing to consider what Top said, that a better actress may have proved better at creating a likeable character, but then I step back and say that might make Lindsay harmless, but it still wouldn’t fix the writing problem. The problem is absolutely at least two-fold, acting and writing, but the acting is probably the greater of the two. The two have combined and made for wasted scenes, space during an episode where we could have continued to know Flack or Hawkes better, a moment where a dead body could have continued to be a dead body, anything, everything, anybody, and everybody.

Oh, *hit forehead with hand* the Myers-Briggs thing was a joke, as opposed to my statement that fictional character should take a test in order to facilitate a career change, I see now, thanks for the clarification, surely I would have been lost without that necessary clarification.

I think it is interesting that quite a few people liked Lindsay and now do not, the reasons in all your posts are compelling and add a new dimension to the problems with the Lindsay’s presence and Anna’s performance on the show. She has always been a self-satisfied, over-eager, ass kissing, know-it-all to me, since then she has upped the ante by showcasing rudeness and pathetic attempts to secure Danny’s attentions, but through it all Anna has failed to deliver and it is getting worse not better, the acting has steadily deteriorated from inoffensive to painful.

Ali
 
JDonne said:
I think it is interesting that quite a few people liked Lindsay and now do not, the reasons in all your posts are compelling and add a new dimension to the problems with the Lindsay’s presence and Anna’s performance on the show. She has always been a self-satisfied, over-eager, ass kissing, know-it-all to me, since then she has upped the ante by showcasing rudeness and pathetic attempts to secure Danny’s attentions, but through it all Anna has failed to deliver and it is getting worse not better, the acting has steadily deteriorated from inoffensive to painful.

Ali

I liked her at first, you know, giving the character a chance, letting her prove herself and live up against everyone else but as the season progressed, it never happened. Lindsay is a train wreck waiting to happen. She keeps going at this pace that the writers seem to believe is working for her. But in reality? It's not. It simply makes (as JDonne has stated above), a pathetic put together character. She has no personality except that of impressing others.

We've heard spoilers about her and her background (or emotions, what ever that may be) and turthfully enough, I believe Anna will not be able to pull it off. She can not do it. She can not do angst, drama or even, anything closely related to real emotions. The only real thing she can do well is being a pain in everyone's ass. Yes, she can be quite cute and funny but when it comes down to a drama show such as CSI:NY, looks and pathetic attemps at fitting a cop position is not going to cut it.

Bringing in a new character was a waste. Yes, perhaps if we had a different actress (perhaps one with a New York background would have been nice - maybe that's why Aiden's character was so believable), Lindsay character would have still not made it far. You can not replace and move on as in something never happened.

Yes, it's both the writers and Anna's mistakes for the reason why Lindsay is the way she is.
 
I am so sick of having her shoved down my throat. She is getting far too much screen time and nothing is coming of it. It's taking away from the other character who if Lindsey wasn't there maybe we'd get to know them better.
 
Well last night, she really wasnt involved that much in the show. Just processing the evidence for Mac and going to Danny. Other than being at the hospital with Mac, she really wasnt there that much. Can't say that that's an absoloute good thing, but it helps.
 
True, we actually had 27 min before she even made an apperance. I was shocked.

Though I don't understand why we needed her at all. Her scenes seemed to me like they were just there for forcing a her and Danny thing. That was the only reason the writers put her on the case at all I feel.
 
Imzadi83 said:
True, we actually had 27 min before she even made an apperance. I was shocked.

Though I don't understand why we needed her at all. Her scenes seemed to me like they were just there for forcing a her and Danny thing. That was the only reason the writers put her on the case at all I feel.

The meaningful glances, the camera-alightly-too-long-on-the-face you mean? Yes, I noticed it. But I think I was looking for it. I was kind of dreading how they would deal with it. It could have been way worse, but really, Lindsey and Hawkes seemed to just be fodder - have them there for the sake of showing the whole cast. Someone mentioned they were interchangeable and could have had the same lines, and that's a bit worrying, as far as "characters" go.
 
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