Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[Top41]

I wondered why back in Season 3 it was OK for Lindsay to stand Danny up on a date, and actually leave him alone like an idiot in a restaurant, without even calling him or explaining to him why she did that. And from what I recall Danny didn't start acting up all cranky and moody, instead he offered a hand out for help, when she explained that she couldn't be in a relationship with him. She didn't tell him about what happened with her friends and why it was affecting her so much, instead Danny barged in the courtroom. So from what I recall while Lindsay was going through a tough time she pushed Danny away from her. Now when Danny is in her position all of a sudden she demands to know what is wrong with him and why. Well Lindsay, if something that happened in your teens still affects you, imagine how affected is Danny since Ruben died very recently.

Because Lindsay is a hypocrite and it's okay for her to pull away from Danny and stand him up, but heaven forbid he doesn't beg her to listen to him talk about Ruben and doesn't take her up on her offer of lunch. Why is it okay for Lindsay to treat Danny like shit?

Something else I was wondering about--why would the fact that Danny wants to grieve alone about Ruben and that he turned down a lunch date with Lindsay make her feel like she has to "let go" of her love for him? What, because he didn't go to you for comfort you can't love him anymore?

I don't get it.

Exactly. That to me reeked of passive agressiveness, surpassed her selfishness even of SD and made her more of a drama queen than the resident drama queen. Oh, poor me, I've done nothing but love you and try to be there for you; but your unwillingness not only to let me be there for you but to get over the dead kid after less than 2 months makes loving you impossible so I must try to move on.

Yeah, that was just disgusting all around. She's manipulative and that whole speech reeked of her trying to make him feel guilty for what...not expressing his feelings to her? Not confiding in her? That's just shitty all around.

Oh, what a sweet, spunky little country girl. There's true love at it's finest, folks. :wtf: :scream:

That's the thing...she says she's in love with him, but apparently not enough to let him grieve the way he wants to or respect his right to be unhappy over Ruben's death for more than, oh, say a week or two.

I reeeaally want to see Danny get beyond pissed at her and let her have it, but I doubt that'll happen.

I would love that, too, but he's already apologized and I'm guessing her manipulation will have the intended result: to make Danny feel more guilty.

Yes, he did show signs of irritation towards her (FINALLY)! It was great of him to call her out on her childish behavior by asking her what's wrong with not wanting to have lunch with her. And the interesting thing is, she never directly answered him on that. Just went straight into her monologue to make it look as if she's the wronged one. Me thinks she's way more manipulative than people think ...

There was definite anger in his voice when he called her on making a big deal of the lunch thing. But I suspect that her manipulation move worked and he's just feeling guilty now.

Here's a question...did Lindsay's confession that she's in love with Danny make you feel any more sympathy for her? Do you believe she actually loves him?

 

[origin-nknwn]

Here's a question...did Lindsay's confession that she's in love with Danny make you feel any more sympathy for her?

Not really, no. Even if I loved her character - which I absolutely don't - I'd still find that act to be manipulative and an exercise in making Danny guilty. Rather than give Danny space to grieve how he wants to - which probably involves not listening to Lindsey make shit about her - she's just given him more baggage to carry. Now instead of their just being guilt about Ruben, he gets to know he's hurt someone else as well. Whether he actually cares that way about her is neither here nor there - I think Danny is going to feel he might have strung her along and actually feel bad about that.

Do you believe she actually loves him?

Maybe she does but part of me finds her very emotionally immature and I'm not sure if how the rest of us would define 'love' tallies up with how she's defining it in this relationship.

 

[miss_blue]

Here's a question...did Lindsay's confession that she's in love with Danny make you feel any more sympathy for her? Do you believe she actually loves him?

No, I don't feel anymore sympathy for her. Along the seasons I have tried many times to get myself to like but that didn't happen. The whole love part, I think it was and unnecessary stretch. Of course, you can say that you cannot dictate to your heart and blah blah but I think that what Lindsay is feeling towards Danny may be clingyness not love. I got the vibe that she is confused, not sure what to think, and maybe after the events that took place back in S3 (I am talking about the fact that he went after her in Montana, and Snow Day), she thought that Danny was sharing her feelings too. But to me, he was clearly in shock when the words "falling in love" came off her mouth.
So as a conclusion: no it's not love (at least I didn't get the love vibe from Lindsay).

 

[Kimmychu]

Top41 said:
That's the thing...she says she's in love with him, but apparently not enough to let him grieve the way he wants to or respect his right to be unhappy over Ruben's death for more than, oh, say a week or two.

To me, saying it and meaning it can be two very different things. It's absolutely possible she's telling the truth, but it's just as possible that she's playing things up just for the sake of guilt-tripping Danny and manipulate him into doing what she wants him to do.

Here's a question...did Lindsay's confession that she's in love with Danny make you feel any more sympathy for her? Do you believe she actually loves him?

Considering what she said before that 'I've fallen in love with you' line, no. In fact, I feel even less because the whole monologue reeks of emotional manipulation to me.

On the subject of love, I'll just say this: When you only think about yourself, how everything affects only you, you just assume the other person knows what you're thinking and expect him to do what you want, it is not love. That's ... the complete opposite of love, actually.

I'd love to see Danny finally outright call her out on her self-centeredness. It's about damn time!

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

She probably thinks she's in love. But since day one Danny paid attention to her. Pulling the "he likes to be called 'sir'" joke when they first met, calling her "Montana" pretty much from the get go, doing her a favor by carrying her on the roof top when they weren't on the same case, going to "Cozy's" when she asked him, asking her to grab a slice when they were on a case together. When he decided to pursue her romantically he allowed her to treat him like shit and flew across the country to support her, when they got back from Montana he let her dictate the direction of their relationship, he let her be the sexual aggressor.

For someone as self involved as Lindsay, Danny has been her dream guy because he's pretty much done everything to accomodate her as a friend/co-worker/romantic interest. Now that he's going through something and it's not about her she takes it as things are falling apart and she has to do what she needs to do to protect herself from hurt. Another thing, too, is that she could have convinced herself she loves him because if he hadn't taken her shift in SD she could've been killed. She feels grateful and guilty and is mistaking those feelings for love.

These things would be emotional and compelling if another actress portrayed Lindsay, and I think that is what we are supposed to feel for the character, but AB can't handle the role so Lindsay just comes off as selfish, childish and petty.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

That was from her interview in CSI Magazine. She stated that in order to do the crying scene in the courtroom (or at least, her attempt to do so), she thought about her baby and 'how much she loved her'. Makes it even more WTF, right?

Clearly someone should have just stuck with the Menthol Crystals :lol:

Here's a question...did Lindsay's confession that she's in love with Danny make you feel any more sympathy for her? Do you believe she actually loves him?

No. Her whole Oscar worthy monologue reminded me of something my good friend would do. Start ranting about issues that she could have somewhat been resolved herself had she taken matters into her own damn hands. Then finding a way to make you feel guilty about it. If she wanted him to talk to her about Ruben and she really loved him that much she should have made the effort and not sat on the sidelines assuming he would talk to her. And like other have said she probably thinks she's in love.

It's weird I almost did her monologue for an audition (I figured I could do it better than her ) But in the end I decided against it because every time I went over it I saw her and it made me mad and i just couldn't do it.

 

[Top41]

She probably thinks she's in love. But since day one Danny paid attention to her. Pulling the "he likes to be called 'sir'" joke when they first met, calling her "Montana" pretty much from the get go, doing her a favor by carrying her on the roof top when they weren't on the same case, going to "Cozy's" when she asked him, asking her to grab a slice when they were on a case together. When he decided to pursue her romantically he allowed her to treat him like shit and flew across the country to support her, when they got back from Montana he let her dictate the direction of their relationship, he let her be the sexual aggressor.

For someone as self involved as Lindsay, Danny has been her dream guy because he's pretty much done everything to accomodate her as a friend/co-worker/romantic interest.

I couldn't agree more. Interesting analysis of how Danny has come across through her eyes. He's kind of been the perfect pushover for her--she's called the shots and been in control the entire time. At first it was her making the overtures and he went along with them, but when he started making his own, she shot him down. If you look at it that way, she's kind of done a number on his self-esteem over the last two years, and really almost trained him to let her be the aggressor in their relationship. In that regard, him turning to Rikki was an act of defiance and self-assertion, and maybe a reminder to him that he's his own person.

Now that he's going through something and it's not about her she takes it as things are falling apart and she has to do what she needs to do to protect herself from hurt. Another thing, too, is that she could have convinced herself she loves him because if he hadn't taken her shift in SD she could've been killed. She feels grateful and guilty and is mistaking those feelings for love.

I do believe that she thinks she loves him, but she's so selfish and self-involved that I wonder if she's capable of loving anyone but herself. If she was, I think she would have reached out to him differently, told him she wasn't good at this sort of thing but asked what she could do to help him. Or even told him that she was searching for a way to help him and couldn't come up with one and felt like she was losing him as a result of it. But instead she went the passive-aggressive route and tried to make him feel bad.

These things would be emotional and compelling if another actress portrayed Lindsay, and I think that is what we are supposed to feel for the character, but AB can't handle the role so Lindsay just comes off as selfish, childish and petty.

Agreed.

 

[origin-nknwn]

She probably thinks she's in love. But since day one Danny paid attention to her. Pulling the "he likes to be called 'sir'" joke when they first met, calling her "Montana" pretty much from the get go, doing her a favor by carrying her on the roof top when they weren't on the same case, going to "Cozy's" when she asked him, asking her to grab a slice when they were on a case together. When he decided to pursue her romantically he allowed her to treat him like shit and flew across the country to support her, when they got back from Montana he let her dictate the direction of their relationship, he let her be the sexual aggressor.

For someone as self involved as Lindsay, Danny has been her dream guy because he's pretty much done everything to accomodate her as a friend/co-worker/romantic interest. Now that he's going through something and it's not about her she takes it as things are falling apart and she has to do what she needs to do to protect herself from hurt. Another thing, too, is that she could have convinced herself she loves him because if he hadn't taken her shift in SD she could've been killed. She feels grateful and guilty and is mistaking those feelings for love.

These things would be emotional and compelling if another actress portrayed Lindsay, and I think that is what we are supposed to feel for the character, but AB can't handle the role so Lindsay just comes off as selfish, childish and petty.

I couldn't agree more with all of this. I wish I had something more intellectual to say at this point, but really, that sums it up pretty damned well.

 

[Springmoon]

Here's a question...did Lindsay's confession that she's in love with Danny make you feel any more sympathy for her? Do you believe she actually loves him?

I think she really believes that she is in love with him, but her timing and the other things she said at the time don't indicate that she loves him. I think that she should have gone to him right when Ruben was shot and she made her little admission to Mac that she didn't know how to deal with his grief. She should have said that she loved him, and she wants to help him deal with this, could he please let her in and help her to help him. Instead, she waits however long and makes the entire admission all about her, completely confounding him in the process. That's not love, it's selfishness, and I feel less sympathy now for her than before, if that was at all possible.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

Here's a question...did Lindsay's confession that she's in love with Danny make you feel any more sympathy for her? Do you believe she actually loves him?

While her voice was convincing to me, her face wasn't. If I closed my eyes and listened to her voice, I could tell that she was hurting and did love him. When I cover my ears and just watch her face, it's blank. She could have been talking about the weather, for all I knew. Anna's lack of ability to bring her character's emotions to her eyes or her face is another big thing that makes me doubt everything Lindsay does or says. It never rings true to me.

However, I did think that she had fallen in love with Danny, or at least believes she has. I hate to go back to the old country girl from Montana thing....but I think I have to. She's from what I assume to be a farm from Montana, way out in the west away from civilization. In my eyes (and this is all infered), she hadn't had much expirience with men, and her affection with Danny was much like her first real crush. She was immature and naive about how to proceed, since she hadn't done anything like that before, and assumes that sex=true true love, and it never occurs to her that it wouldn't mean that. In that way, I do feel sorry for her, in the way that she probably didn't realize that Danny was just being nice to her after the Snow Day sex scene. Like I said, I have a feeling she hadn't felt that way about anyone before and didn't know what to expect, so she assumed his sweet nature toward her was exclusively for her.

Anyway. That's my theory.

 

[Kimmychu]

PerfectAnomaly said:
Another thing, too, is that she could have convinced herself she loves him because if he hadn't taken her shift in SD she could've been killed. She feels grateful and guilty and is mistaking those feelings for love.

That is one intriguing point! If that is the case and that actually comes up in whatever discussion Danny and Lindsay may have, it'll make a huge difference in how the current Danny/Rikki/Lindsay situation is viewed, and it also corroborates with the theory of Lindsay and Danny seeing what's going on between them very differently.

Lindsay, who was literally detached from everything that happened in Snow Day until the very end when it was already over, only experienced the situation as a spectator. Danny, on the other hand, was the guy who got beaten up and had his hand broken and worse and it was just his bad luck he got caught in all that because he changed shifts with Lindsay. So it isn't surprising they would each have very different views on what happened and be affected by it in very different ways, just like it isn't surprising Danny could view their one time sex as nothing more than that while Lindsay could view it as a sign that they're in a relationship.

I will say this: If TPTB paints Lindsay as this naive country girl who isn't smart enough to know that sex can have very different significance for different people, I'll just laugh my ass off. She's an adult, and supposedly a professional one at that. Even kids these days know better than to assume sex automatically means the other person wants to be in a relationship or is in love with you.

 

[MichelleK]

I think if everyone else had said the speech to Danny or any other character I would probably have had more sympathy to the situation and character but as I don't like Lindsay it just annoyed me.
I genuinely think Lindsay is in love with Danny. It is easy to fall in love with a bad boy and all the situations where he has proved he would be a door mat for her. She had him well trained.
I just wonder what happens now because she said the ultimate thing to him and he looked horrified. She misjudged the situation.
I agree sex is thrown around so easily these days so to assume that you're in a relationship after one night where someone slept with you to pay off a bet is ridiculous.
I have no idea where they are going to take the character of Lindsay and that scares me more than knowing to expect the usual from her.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I will say this: If TPTB paints Lindsay as this naive country girl who isn't smart enough to know that sex can have very different significance for different people, I'll just laugh my ass off. She's an adult, and supposedly a professional one at that. Even kids these days know better than to assume sex automatically means the other person wants to be in a relationship or is in love with you.

I agree. Hailing from Bozeman, MT, shouldn't equal "pure as the driven snow virgin." Considering she went to his apartment, got drunk and asked for sex as payment for a $100 bet that would be really stupid. I'm not saying doing what she did was wrong, hell if she had stayed with the spunky, sassy personality up to that point I would have loved that she was the aggressor; but it would just be even more of a cliche than this whole thing has already been. I just really can't see the show doing something so cheesy. I mean, that's not even cheese; that's Cheez Whiz. :wtf:

 

[Kimmychu]

PerfectAnomaly said:
Hailing from Bozeman, MT, shouldn't equal "pure as the driven snow virgin."

Oh man, that cracked me up! What made me laugh as well was the hilarious idea that Lindsay was a virgin until she had sex with Danny. :guffaw:I, uh, I'm not gonna poke that one with a ten-foot pole, no sir.

Considering she went to his apartment, got drunk and asked for sex as payment for a $100 bet that would be really stupid.

Bingo! It tells me she knew exactly what she was doing, so if TPTB suddenly turns her into some naive country girl who never knew what sex was until Danny ... :guffaw:It also tells me that, if they are confirmed to not be a couple and they only had sex once, she is far too assuming of relationships for her own good. Communication, communication! Does she not know how to talk to people without reducing herself into a whiny, self-centered brat who presumes everything around her should follow her whims?

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

PerfectAnomaly said:
Hailing from Bozeman, MT, shouldn't equal "pure as the driven snow virgin."

Oh man, that cracked me up! What made me laugh as well was the hilarious idea that Lindsay was a virgin until she had sex with Danny. :guffaw:

OK, so that was an exaggeration. But if TPTB make Lindsay naive enough to think sex automatically = love they might as well say that Danny was her first time.

I, uh, I'm not gonna poke that one with a ten-foot pole, no sir.

This whole mess could've been avoided if Danny had just taken that approach. Damn you, Messer!

Considering she went to his apartment, got drunk and asked for sex as payment for a $100 bet that would be really stupid.

Bingo! It tells me she knew exactly what she was doing, so if TPTB suddenly turns her into some naive country girl who never knew what sex was until Danny ... :guffaw:It also tells me that, if they are confirmed to not be a couple and they only had sex once, she is far too assuming of relationships for her own good. Communication, communication! Does she not know how to talk to people without reducing herself into a whiny, self-centered brat who presumes everything around her should follow her whims?

I just went back and watched the DL scene from SD. I had a reason, it wasn't just for kicks - I'm not a masochist. After Danny wakes up Lindsay, they exchange the "hey's" and "what time is it" and Danny says he'll wake up Lindsay in time for her shift. All small talk and normal. After that, the first thing she says about what happened between them is, "I dreamt that I woke up and you were gone. You left a note." And Danny's response is, "Where would I go? This is my place." I highly doubt TPTB knew where Danny and Lindsay were going when that was written, but it ends up being very telling. I mean most guys would've jumped off the pool table and ran screaming and naked from the apartment regardless of it being their place if the woman they slept with said that right from the get go. It just shows that from the start these two have never been on the same page.