Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[PerfectAnomaly]

I love you too.

So, thoughts on Lindsay after tonight's episode?

I understand her feeling hurt, don't get me wrong--I'm not a total heartless bitch, I get it. However, her 'monologue' was...odd. (And if someone tells me that's the writers and not Lindsay, I'll hafta smack them.)

Although I don't think the writers did Lindsay any favors in this episode, Anna gets the blame too. I would understand her feeling hurt to a point, too. But to me she acted more pissed than hurt. It was like Danny was to blame because his way of dealing with Ruben's death didn't revolve around her. When she did sound hurt while delivering the line about falling in love with Danny, her facial expression was totally off. Like a lot of us have said, her acting doesn't reach her face and that makes anything she says unbelievable. To me her response to Danny was as if she already knew about Danny and Rikki when she doesn't. I blame that on Anna's acting, because Lindsay has never come off as being intuitive enough to suspect anything other than Danny is pushing her away.

 

[privatename]

So, thoughts on Lindsay after tonight's episode?

My thoughts on Lindsay after tonight --- pretty much same as they were before tonight. Again, she is just completely self-centered. As PerfectAnomaly pointed out, Lindsay doesn't know about Rikki yet (and I have to say Danny sleeping with Rikki is bad.) But, Lindsay is just feeling hurt and angry because he hasn't turned to her for comfort and she feels like she lost her best friend and in the midst of this crisis he is having she has decided that she needs to figure out how to fall out of love with him or something. Arrgh. So self-centered. It hasn't been that long since Rueben died and if Danny wants to deal with it in a way other than talking to her about things, then he has that right. She can't demand he talk to her. That is ridiculous -- especially since she has already admitted she is no good dealing with someone else's grief. Even if there is some jealousy involved because she suspects he is talking about it with Rikki, she should get over herself a bit and realize that it is completely natural for Danny to share his grief with Rikki because it is a shared grief in a way. People grieve in their own way and a good supportive friend lets them know they are there for them whenever and in whatever way they need. They don't demand they be the one they pour their heart out to and they certainly don't demand it be done on their timetable.

Sorry for that rant, it is a subject that hits a little close to home for me right now. I get that she is hurt and it is too bad if they are as close as she suggests that he doesn't turn to her, but right now for whatever reason that is not something he can do. She should be more understanding. And I even understand that if it drags on for a really long time and he still keeps pulling away then there is a point where she may have to end things, but seems way to soon for it to come to that if, as she professed tonight, she has fallen in love with him.

And, how completely unprofessional of her to have shoved that thing (whatever it is) into Danny's hands and storming off after being told by her boss to catch Danny up with what is going on.

As usual, I did find her acting a bit off in all her scenes, but the scene I really couldn't tolerate her in was that scene where she was explaining things to Mac and Stella. She does these little reveals with this smug smile or some other odd expression on her face and this tone in her voice that aren't excitement about her discoveries that may lead to solving the case (like I think Hawkes manages) but smug and kind of gloating that she knows something they don't and wants to be praised for it. Does that make sense?? The way she plays those scenes just really grates on my nerves.

 

[Kimmychu]

privatename said:
It hasn't been that long since Rueben died and if Danny wants to deal with it in a way other than talking to her about things, then he has that right. She can't demand he talk to her. That is ridiculous -- especially since she has already admitted she is no good dealing with someone else's grief.

EXACTLY. Can we say, multiple personality disorder?! Lindsay, quit being so freakin' contradictory and GROW UP. You're an adult woman with a professional job, not a ten-year-old brat!

Even if there is some jealousy involved because she suspects he is talking about it with Rikki, she should get over herself a bit and realize that it is completely natural for Danny to share his grief with Rikki because it is a shared grief in a way. People grieve in their own way and a good supportive friend lets them know they are there for them whenever and in whatever way they need. They don't demand they be the one they pour their heart out to and they certainly don't demand it be done on their timetable.

Agreed 110%. Her being angry about Danny not going to her for support on HER terms and conditions was what really annoyed me. Those are not the words of a caring best friend. Those are the words of someone who thinks the whole world revolves around them and that her way is the only way.

Oh, and did anyone feel like hurling something at the screen when she accused him of 'reducing her to a shallow, clingy girlfriend'? Okay, I laughed my ass off first and then I felt like doing that. :lol: It's amazing how she did not see the extreme irony of her own statement!

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Kimmychu said:
and did anyone feel like hurling something at the screen when she accused him of 'reducing her to a shallow, clingy girlfriend'? Okay, I laughed my ass off first and then I felt like doing that. :lol: It's amazing how she did not see the extreme irony of her own statement!

I just laughed at that part. What made me want to hurl something at the TV was when she went on about trying to be there for Danny and chastized him because "you've decided to do it all on your own." What really irked me is she didn't sound hurt by him not turning to her, she sounded pissed.

Um, hey, Linds. Remember S3 when you did nothing but push Danny away when he tried to help you? Remember how Danny was completely understanding even though you treated him like shit and didn't even bother to come up with lame excuses not to have dinner with him, but instead accepted the invitation and stood him up and then gave him no explanation for your behavior? Remember how he let you have your space while letting you know he was there if/when you needed him? Remember when Danny flew across the freakin' country after three days or whatever it was of no sleep because he thought you needed a friend and some emotional support? Oh, you do remember all of that? Well then, STFU, you selfish, bratty, bitch. :scream: :brickwall:

Also, I understood when she did the Monologue of Doom at work. If Danny's avoiding her, where else is she going to do it? And she did do it in the privacy of their shared office. But shoving the case file at Danny and storming off in front of Hawkes and then obviously ignoring Danny in front of Stella was inexcusable and made her look like a 10 year old throwing a temper tantrum.

 

[Kimmychu]

PerfectAnomaly said:
What made me want to hurl something at the TV was when she went on about trying to be there for Danny and chastized him because "you've decided to do it all on your own." What really irked me is she didn't sound hurt by him not turning to her, she sounded pissed.

I knew my brain wiped out most of that Monologue of Doom for a reason. :lol: Yes, that was probably the most awful and most self-centered part of it all. I also agree with you about why Lindsay did the monologue at work. I guess that also implies Danny avoids her outside of work then.

My mind will be utterly boggled if Danny is still interested in being with her. This'll probably get wank started but I feel Rikki is so much better a significant other for Danny than Lindsay ever will be.

How about we start a Why Rikki Must Stay thread? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Springmoon]

Thoughts on last night's episode? That, more than anything else before, this episode cemented Lindsay's status as completely irredeemably selfish. I was stunned at the speed and efficiency with which she turned her confrontation with Danny from mildly sympathetic into being all about her. She is wronged. She felt like she lost her best friend. He should have turned to her. Sorry, lady, but it's really not all about you. Yes, Danny is totally clueless about why she was really mad at him (my husband and male friends do this with such regularity, I'm beginning to suspect it's encoded in male DNA), but it is normal for him to have turned to the person with whom he shared the experience for comfort rather than his purported best friend. And, considering his reaction at her little speech, he did not consider her as such.

And once again: professionalism please? I agree that there was probably no place else for her to confront him if he has in fact been avoiding her, but why not take him up on his offer for coffee and talk to him outside the confines of the office? And, that childish behavior in front of both Hawkes and Stella was just ridiculous. Just grow up already!!

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

Right Next Door only even more cemented in my mind how self-centered and completely shallow Lindsay really is. No, Danny didn't want to go to lunch with her--at this point, she doesn't know he's sleeping with Rikki--and she acts like a bitch to him afterwards. Later, when he offers a coffee date, she goes ballistic, saying "don't reduce me to some shallow, clingy girlfriend". Well, duh. The writers might be reading our comments here after all, because they just had Lindsay "defend" herself with those same words that embody her character and that we've all used to describe her here.

The whole episode, she acted like a whiny child, blowing off Danny and his attempts to talk to her simply because "he didnt have lunch with her" and has been grieving for Ruben by himself. She claims she only wants to comfort him and he wont let her, but what about when Ruben died? Where the hell was she then? No, she waited until it was convienent for her to come and comfort him, and is a complete bitch about it when he wont fall into her arms. Its obvious that he has given up on her for everything, because he seems to finally have realized that she is only there when its convienent, and even then, its only for herself. Her "comforting" him about Ruben in last night's ep went quickly to how she feels, not him.

I hope the writers are finally understanding how self centered they've made her, and either get rid of her or keep her out of everyone else's way. I'm truly sick of seeing her.

 

[MichelleK]

You know what really gets me - Danny hasn't been going through it alone, he has spoken to Mac, Flack, Riki and even Angell asked how he was. She has made no effort to even ask how he was so for her to turn it around like that - oooh it grates on me.
There is obviously something wrong with why he didn't confide in her.
I haven't even seen the episode but it seems like she is back to her normal, whiny, selfish all about me routine.
Good on Danny for not falling for it - he needs time to grieve himself.

On a side note I read that in the next episode Lindsay leaves some evidence unattended - could trouble be ahead for Miss Monroe?

 

[Top41]

I agree with pretty much everything that's been said here. I was inclined to feel bad for Lindsay, and do to some extent, but it's always about her. And I get it--when a friend or loved one is hurting, you want to be there for them. I'm a very open person and I don't always get it when someone doesn't want to talk about something, but I always, always take a step back and respect their wishes. It's not about me, it's about them. If they want to talk, they can; if not, that's their call, too. To act otherwise is selfish.

And that's basically what Lindsay did to Danny. She made him into the bad guy because he doesn't want to talk to her or confide in her. That's not fair at all. That's just the height of selfishness.

What Lindsay said was bad, but I think a big part of the problem with Anna is how brittle and utterly lacking in compassion or warmth she is in her performances. Try as I might, I can't like Lindsay when she's so darn unpleasant.

I just laughed at that part. What made me want to hurl something at the TV was when she went on about trying to be there for Danny and chastized him because "you've decided to do it all on your own." What really irked me is she didn't sound hurt by him not turning to her, she sounded pissed.

Um, hey, Linds. Remember S3 when you did nothing but push Danny away when he tried to help you? Remember how Danny was completely understanding even though you treated him like shit and didn't even bother to come up with lame excuses not to have dinner with him, but instead accepted the invitation and stood him up and then gave him no explanation for your behavior? Remember how he let you have your space while letting you know he was there if/when you needed him? Remember when Danny flew across the freakin' country after three days or whatever it was of no sleep because he thought you needed a friend and some emotional support? Oh, you do remember all of that? Well then, STFU, you selfish, bratty, bitch. :scream: :brickwall:

Exactly. Danny is doing exactly what she did to him in season three, and really, just going on the established pattern of their relationship so far. She's confided in him, but has never shown any interest in his feelings or concern for him on that level. But of course, she's not thinking about that--she feels him pulling away, she knows why, so suddenly he's the bad guy for shutting her out.

Also, I understood when she did the Monologue of Doom at work. If Danny's avoiding her, where else is she going to do it? And she did do it in the privacy of their shared office. But shoving the case file at Danny and storming off in front of Hawkes and then obviously ignoring Danny in front of Stella was inexcusable and made her look like a 10 year old throwing a temper tantrum.

Agreed. Talking to him at work when they were alone was fine. But the bratty behavior was just childish. How are we supposed to respect this character, let alone like her, when she acts like a spoiled, unprofessional child?

You know what really gets me - Danny hasn't been going through it alone, he has spoken to Mac, Flack, Riki and even Angell asked how he was. She has made no effort to even ask how he was so for her to turn it around like that - oooh it grates on me.

Agreed. All of those characters reached out to Danny in some way or another: Mac was with him right after he saw Ruben in the morgue, Flack chased him all over Manhattan, Rikki brought him the funeral program and well, reached out to him physically, and Angell asked how he was doing. Lindsay? Except for one half-hearted attempt, nada. She could have chased after him then. She could have tried harder. But she didn't, and she really doesn't have anyone to blame but herself for that.

 

[MichelleK]

I completely forgot that Lndsay acted like that in season 3 (I do try and block out certain episodes). So she just has one set of rules for one person and another for herself.
I watched the scene where she tells him she has fallen in love with him. If anyone else had said that I would have felt so sorry and so upset for them but in Danny's time of need again it's all about Lindsay!
I did love the shocked look on Danny's face when Lindsay said she was his girlfriend.

 

[owlki]

I did love the shocked look on Danny's face when Lindsay said she was his girlfriend.

Yeah, me too. It was like "Are you, really? Never thought of it this way" or "No... Not shallow and clingy at all..."

People are saying "Danny is a bastard, he lied to Lindsay." You know, even liking to see Danny and Rikki together (awesome chemistry there), I did thought "Poor Lindsay" when I watched the kitchen scene. It lasted until she made her "monologue of Doom". Then, I was wishing he had said on the phone "I can't have lunch with you because I'm planning on pulling a double with Rikki!" She so deserved to hear that!

I would understand her "monologue of Doom" if she knew about Danny sleeping with Rikki because her perception of their relationship is that they're an item but, as she doesn't, her reaction to him not reaching out for her is ridiculous and downright annoying. I cannot blame him for avoiding her and wanting to be with someone else. Jeez, Lindsay is a pain in the ass, of course he's avoiding her! And looks like since Ruben's death, besides the guilt and grief, Danny has been dealing with Ms. "You must lean on me even if I didn't do the same" and "You forgot the most important event on Earth, my birthday!". Patience has a limit.

When he thought she was still mad at him for forgetting her birthday, she talked to him like he was crazy, like her being all angry about that was a figment of his imagination, like he was hallucinating if he thought she would bitch about her birthday for so long.

And she must understand that her 'being in love with him' doesn't necessarily mean he reciprocates. Observing his reaction to her monologue, he didn't see them as a couple. Have they been sleeping together since SD? I'm sure they have, at least until Ruben died. Does it mean to him they are girlfriend and boyfriend? Obviously not. He was shocked to learn she saw them that way and was rooted to the spot when he realized she sees love where he sees sex.

Also, if she was really his best friend, as she claims to be, she would understand he needs space. As a lot of people pointed out, various characters reach out for Danny (Mac, Flack, Angell, ...) but none of them forced him to talk to them about it when he changed subject. He clearly didn't want to talk about it with them and they respected that. So, if he decided to talk about Ruben with Rikki, to whom he feels linked through his and her pain, I would expect Lindsay to understand and say "I'm here for you if you need to talk". But she didn't, resolving to shove her "pity me" show down his throat instead.

I was disgusted that she implied he didn't know that she knew what was to grieve and miss a friend. Of course he knew. He was there for her even if she wasn't talking. Now, if she was still grieving after ten years or so and she still didn't want to talk about it after all that time, why is Danny obligated to talk to her about what he's going through after some weeks?

I'm sure that she didn't want to talk about it right after the shooting of her friends happened (she couldn't bring herself to do so after ten years) so she should be able to understand him shutting everyone out. But she can't, obviously, because she suffers from the same illness that affects Mac: "Rules are for the others. They don't apply to me. I can be selfish, I can be bratty, my suffering is far more profound than yours and no way you can choose any person other than me to talk to."

Besides, in Danny's case, it's more than grief. It's guilt. People can say she felt guilt for not helping her friends but it's still different. In her case, she knows that she couldn't have done anything, that she would be dead if she had tried to save them instead of hiding. In Danny's case, he knows very well that he was responsible for Ruben and probably could have saved him, had he noticed earlier that the boy had been shot.

Now, we know clearly that Danny doesn't confide in Lindsay and her behavior annoys him (his face when she has her tantrums says it all). So, please, TPTB, don't make him magically discover he's in love with her too because he isn't. I might puke on my laptop and the repair won't be cheap.

 

[kinkapoodles]

I would expect Lindsay to understand and say "I'm here for you if you need to talk". But she didn't, resolving to shove her "pity me" show down his throat instead.

She should very well understand that but she's too selfish to comprehend it apparently. Danny told Lindsay that same line in Love Run Cold in the hallway when she walked away from him. He let her know she could come to him but she ignored that so why would he want to come to her with his grief now? She didn't offer her support. She didn't do anything.

I was disgusted that she implied he didn't know that she knew what was to grieve and miss a friend. Of course he knew. He was there for her even if she wasn't talking.

Remember how she acted when Aiden was killed? Questioning Hawkes and making remarks to Stella. She didn't come off as concerned to me, she came off as jealous like Aiden was an obstacle.

"You forgot the most important event on Earth, my birthday!". Patience has a limit.

Maybe he didn't forget her birthday. Maybe he just didn't give a damn.

And she must understand that her 'being in love with him' doesn't necessarily mean he reciprocates. Observing his reaction to her monologue, he didn't see them as a couple.

He looked a bit shocked to find out that she's in love with him and I'm betting that he doesn't feel the same way. I still don't understand why she had that big talk right then. It seemed a bit much considering all he did was make up excuses for not going to lunch. Does Lindsay not remember anything she's ever done to Danny? She turned him down for lunch in City of the Dolls, Love Run Cold (I think it was that one - somewhere around there), and then stood him up. She's a selfish person and and it only matters when it affects her.

 

[miss_blue]

After Right Next Door, and after the talk about her feelings and her feelings only, I wanted to grab a baseball bat and kick her out myself. She came off as arrogant, self centered, unprofessional, egocentric.

After the phone conversation with Danny I was like :brickwall:. Woman, can you be more selfish and not caring than that? While Danny was trying to tell Lindsay to ensure Stella about his full support and hand out for help, while he asked in a very concerned tone if I might add that he cared about her, Lindsay quickly brushed him off by saying "She'll be fine". And in the next two seconds "All Access" came to mind and Lindsay's attitude over Stella's problem. Although that whole "I'm so upset for what happened to Stella that I can't work well" attitude Lindsay showed had absolutely no freaking sense to me, I expected to see Lindsay upset this time too. But surprise surprise! She only cared about going to lunch with Danny.

And not so-surprisingly Lindsay keeps up with the good work on the hall way at the lab! Wow! Just wow! Bare in mind that she doesn't know about Rikki yet, and she brushed him off, and made a fool out of Danny because he refused to go out to lunch? The whole "catch up yourself on the case" line was . Bringing personal issues to work Lindsay, AGAIN? GOD!

Even when she explained evidence to Stella and Danny made the mistake of being in the same room she came off annoyed (this time she emoted a little bit) just because Danny was there, and from her point of view the dude's only mistake was not eating out with her. *applause for Lindsay*.

And now, to the cherry on the top of the cake, the Monologue of Doom. Where can I even begin to describe it? Cringeworthy is such an understatement right now. Yes Lindsay, why don't you pull out your gun and shoot Danny - who is trying to deal with the death of a child he was responsible for (and from what we know had some kind of relationship with him) - just because he ignored your feelings and left you out. Poor you! I feel so sorry for you [/sarcasm]. I understand how difficult it is to be you when you know how it feels to lose someone you care about. Breaking news honey! Everyone lost someone who they loved! You're not alone on the planet! And that scumbag of Danny who didn't run after you around the lab screaming "Lindsay let's talk about Ruben's death and help me because you must know how to help me!". Please, you're a 30 something year old woman, start acting like it!! "Clingy girlfriend", really? Gosh..I have absolutely no word for that. And can someone tell me if it was crying that she was trying to convey at the end of the scene, because she used the same voice from the Montana courtroom

 

[Top41]

Also, if she was really his best friend, as she claims to be, she would understand he needs space. As a lot of people pointed out, various characters reach out for Danny (Mac, Flack, Angell, ...) but none of them forced him to talk to them about it when he changed subject. He clearly didn't want to talk about it with them and they respected that. So, if he decided to talk about Ruben with Rikki, to whom he feels linked through his and her pain, I would expect Lindsay to understand and say "I'm here for you if you need to talk". But she didn't, resolving to shove her "pity me" show down his throat instead.

Exactly. He tried to get her to talk to him in "Love Run Cold," but when she didn't, he didn't throw a snit-fit or do anything but respect her right to deal with what she was going through in her own way. Hell, she stood him up and he didn't even get mad at her! Not so with Lindsay. Every time I want to feel bad for her, I keep coming back to the whole, "Me, Me, Me!" thing. And honestly, her self-absorption is what needs to change if they're going to have a real, meaningful relationship. Not to say Danny doesn't have his problems--he does--but Lindsay has to get over her enormous self-involvement.

I was disgusted that she implied he didn't know that she knew what was to grieve and miss a friend. Of course he knew. He was there for her even if she wasn't talking. Now, if she was still grieving after ten years or so and she still didn't want to talk about it after all that time, why is Danny obligated to talk to her about what he's going through after some weeks?

That was just atrocious and entirely unsympathetic, especially since this was the first time we've even seen her bother to try to reach out to him.

I'm sure that she didn't want to talk about it right after the shooting of her friends happened (she couldn't bring herself to do so after ten years) so she should be able to understand him shutting everyone out. But she can't, obviously, because she suffers from the same illness that affects Mac: "Rules are for the others. They don't apply to me. I can be selfish, I can be bratty, my suffering is far more profound than yours and no way you can choose any person other than me to talk to."

Of all people, she should be the most sympathetic to Danny. But whatever, I guess his pain comes second to her needs and her birthday.

Besides, in Danny's case, it's more than grief. It's guilt. People can say she felt guilt for not helping her friends but it's still different. In her case, she knows that she couldn't have done anything, that she would be dead if she had tried to save them instead of hiding. In Danny's case, he knows very well that he was responsible for Ruben and probably could have saved him, had he noticed earlier that the boy had been shot.

And what bugs me is that she doesn't even try to understand that or address it. Contrast that with Flack, who is probably the most ethical character on the show and yet he bent the rules for Danny because he saw how torn up Danny is about this. And he did everything he could to get Danny to believe that Ruben's death wasn't his fault.

Now, we know clearly that Danny doesn't confide in Lindsay and her behavior annoys him (his face when she has her tantrums says it all). So, please, TPTB, don't make him magically discover he's in love with her too because he isn't. I might puke on my laptop and the repair won't be cheap.

Seconded.

]She should very well understand that but she's too selfish to comprehend it apparently. Danny told Lindsay that same line in Love Run Cold in the hallway when she walked away from him. He let her know she could come to him but she ignored that so why would he want to come to her with his grief now? She didn't offer her support. She didn't do anything.

It just shows the difference between Danny and Lindsay. He's a genuinely good, caring person. She's just selfish.

He looked a bit shocked to find out that she's in love with him and I'm betting that he doesn't feel the same way. I still don't understand why she had that big talk right then. It seemed a bit much considering all he did was make up excuses for not going to lunch. Does Lindsay not remember anything she's ever done to Danny? She turned him down for lunch in City of the Dolls, Love Run Cold (I think it was that one - somewhere around there), and then stood him up. She's a selfish person and and it only matters when it affects her.

Agreed, completely.

 

[origin-nknwn]

All I really have to say on this matter at the moment is I give my whole-hearted support to the sentiment of Lindsey being shot out of a cannon into orbit. Her selfish antics just make me cringe and she is probably the most boring and annoying character in the entire franchise - even Horatio comes above her cos at least the sunglasses schtick gives me and my mates something to take the piss out of.

I'm sure I'll have more to say once I've caught up with the thread, but so far, on the issue of the most recent episode - yeah. The Monologue of Doom - *criiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinge*