Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[Kimmychu]

:lol: I hate to say this but even Sid was already dragged into the mess. The writers had him telling Lindsay that Danny called her Montana 'because he had a crush on her'. Seriously made me roll my eyes, that one.

The only one who's still untouched is Adam. I sure as hell hope TPTB doesn't ever bring him into it.

Geez, how many props does she need?!

miss_blue said:
I have only one image since you mentioned that Lindsay should be put to lab work: she doing the wrong experiment and destroy evidence, hence her getting fired. I like to call that wishful thinking.

:lol: I can actually see that happen. But even worse, I can also see her trying to blame Danny for it, and Mac letting her off the hook because she's Ms. Perfect Who Apparently Must Be Loved By All.

 

[miss_blue]

^ When you're right you're right. I forgot about that thing. it was in S2 I guess, man, if I forgot then I must have really hated it :lol:

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

miss_blue said:
I have only one image since you mentioned that Lindsay should be put to lab work: she doing the wrong experiment and destroy evidence, hence her getting fired. I like to call that wishful thinking.

:lol: I can actually see that happen. But even worse, I can also see her trying to blame Danny for it, and Mac letting her off the hook because she's Ms. Perfect Who Apparently Must Be Loved By All.

She already left evidence on a huge serial killer case unattended while the lab was under observation for reaccreditation . If that isn't a fireable offense - given her track record, that wasn't the first unprofessional thing she's done at work - I don't think there is one. Maybe if she killed someone (not a regular but some random lab person), but I can see TPTB even finding an excuse for that.

 

[Top41]

Yeah, it's ridiculous that she didn't get written up for leaving the evidence given that the lab was under observation at the time.

I was thinking about the whole "Montana" nickname and why all the Montana references are so irritating, and I think it's because without them, viewers would never know she's from Montana. There's nothing unique or interesting about Lindsay that suggests a different background from the others, or any sort of interesting background at all. She doesn't have a drawl. She doesn't have a fresh perspective. Her wardrobe doesn't scream country girl. There's nothing about her that denotes she's from Montana, hence the heavy-handed references. Otherwise the audience wouldn't know/would forget that she's from Montana.

Just another instance of the character being poorly written/portrayed. They tell you in grade school to "show, not tell."

 

[Surreal_44]

Aw, come on guys. Lindsay isn't that bad.

Actually, considering Lindsay's behavior and the fact Quinn pointed her out as not doing her job well and the fact she actually heavily implied to Mac that Danny would automatically clean up after her when Mac called her out on her unprofessionalism ...

Actually, Quinn stated that aside from the anomaly with Lindsay, the lab and the team are fine. There is no indication whatsoever that Quinn seemed to believe that Lindsay was a bad employee.

And regarding her conversation with Mac; Lindsay stopped herself and realized her mistake. She acknowledged what she did was wrong immediately after saying that Danny would have cleaned it up.

who knows, Lindsay getting demoted to lab tech is a very plausible storyline. It's about damn time she experienced consequences for her actions. The writers writing off any wrong she does without so much as a slap on the wrist ends up making her look bad too. That contributes to her two-dimensionality.

Lindsay got a pretty stern lecture from Mac -- in fact I can recall at least three other occasions where Lindsay has been lectured to or spoken sternly for various reasons. No, she hasn't been written up, but then again, neither have any of the other characters. The only person we've seen with any real consequence is Aiden, and that was absolutely the proper thing to do.

She already left evidence on a huge serial killer case unattended while the lab was under observation for reaccreditation . If that isn't a fireable offense - given her track record, that wasn't the first unprofessional thing she's done at work - I don't think there is one. Maybe if she killed someone (not a regular but some random lab person), but I can see TPTB even finding an excuse for that.

It's TVLand, where things like having your gun stolen don't matter either, right? Leaving your particular piece of evidence with another person is not quite as bad as having your gun stolen and then not reporting it, right? Or with-holding evidence that ties you to a victim from your boss? If you want to hold Lindsay accountable for her sins, you should have the same standards for others, right?

Not that I'm expecting any of my ideas to sway anyone's opinions on Lindsay, I just thought I'd point out those few things. You will all hate Lindsay and love Danny the way I hate Danny and sorta like Lindsay.

 

[Top41]

Aw, come on guys. Lindsay isn't that bad.

She's worse?

Actually, Quinn stated that aside from the anomaly with Lindsay, the lab and the team are fine. There is no indication whatsoever that Quinn seemed to believe that Lindsay was a bad employee.

Or Quinn seemed to think that Lindsay was the anomaly on an otherwise stellar team. Hey, I think I like her even more! :lol: Quinn wasn't going to burn the lab based on one unprofessional employee. And that was the right call. But the fact that she mentioned it to Mac, twice, makes me think she didn't think it was completely inconsequential, either.

And regarding her conversation with Mac; Lindsay stopped herself and realized her mistake. She acknowledged what she did was wrong immediately after saying that Danny would have cleaned it up.

Yep, her first instinct was to dump the whole thing in Danny's lap. What a stellar employee, not to mention friend/girlfriend/whatever the hell she thinks she is to Danny. You could read it as her realizing Mac wasn't going to swallow the BS, too.

Lindsay got a pretty stern lecture from Mac

Were we watching the same scene? "I'm more worried about you" isn't really stern.

-- in fact I can recall at least three other occasions where Lindsay has been lectured to or spoken sternly for various reasons.

What three? I remember Stella chewing her out a little bit in "Silent Night" after being spoken harshly to by Lindsay when she tried to express concern.

No, she hasn't been written up, but then again, neither have any of the other characters. The only person we've seen with any real consequence is Aiden, and that was absolutely the proper thing to do.

Danny got taken off the promotion grid.

It's TVLand, where things like having your gun stolen don't matter either, right? Leaving your particular piece of evidence with another person is not quite as bad as having your gun stolen and then not reporting it, right?

That only turned out okay because a) Flack saved Danny's ass and b) Lindsay covered for Danny. See, I give credit where credit is due.

Or with-holding evidence that ties you to a victim from your boss?

Hawkes got chewed out for that.

If you want to hold Lindsay accountable for her sins, you should have the same standards for others, right?

We do, in other threads. This one is about Lindsay, so criticism of her behavior is what you'll find here. Kinda goes with the topic of the thread, you know?

Not that I'm expecting any of my ideas to sway anyone's opinions on Lindsay, I just thought I'd point out those few things. You will all hate Lindsay and love Danny the way I hate Danny and sorta like Lindsay.

Why does it always come down to Lindsay vs. Danny for you? I'm just curious, because loving Danny doesn't equate to hating Lindsay. Plenty of people love them both, and plenty are indifferent to/dislike him and dislike her as well. So much discussion of her character seems to come back to Danny...which just further proves that he's pretty much the prop holding her up.

 

[origin-nknwn]

Aw, come on guys. Lindsay isn't that bad.

She isn't bad, she's horrific. But then, that is my perspective.

Actually, Quinn stated that aside from the anomaly with Lindsay, the lab and the team are fine. There is no indication whatsoever that Quinn seemed to believe that Lindsay was a bad employee.

And regarding her conversation with Mac; Lindsay stopped herself and realized her mistake. She acknowledged what she did was wrong immediately after saying that Danny would have cleaned it up.

The fact that it was mentioned more than once says to me that Quinn actually does think there is a problem there.

As to her conversation with Mac, there is no excuse for her trying to shift the blame onto Danny. That to me reeked of her trying to get him into trouble for the wrongs she perceives he's done to her and then back-pedalling when she realised who she was saying it to.

Lindsay got a pretty stern lecture from Mac -- in fact I can recall at least three other occasions where Lindsay has been lectured to or spoken sternly for various reasons. No, she hasn't been written up, but then again, neither have any of the other characters. The only person we've seen with any real consequence is Aiden, and that was absolutely the proper thing to do.

Hmmmm, I'm pretty sure Danny got taken off the promotion grid for the whole Minhas situation in 'On The Job'...

It's TVLand, where things like having your gun stolen don't matter either, right? Leaving your particular piece of evidence with another person is not quite as bad as having your gun stolen and then not reporting it, right? Or with-holding evidence that ties you to a victim from your boss? If you want to hold Lindsay accountable for her sins, you should have the same standards for others, right?

Danny and the stuff with his gun is totally irrelevant in the discipline stakes since Mac does not appear to know anything about it. Yes, it should have been reported, but bear in mind Danny has two accomplices in that action - Lindsay who lied to Mac about Danny's whereabouts and then used lab resources to find out Danny's private business. And Don who also did not report what was going on. Who's ass are we kicking first there?

As to withholding evidence, I assume we mean Sheldon and the girl who died on the blue train (can't remember the episode name). In which Sheldon got a public bollocking for not telling Mac those details. Very professional of the boss. Who's writing him up?

Not that I'm expecting any of my ideas to sway anyone's opinions on Lindsay, I just thought I'd point out those few things. You will all hate Lindsay and love Danny the way I hate Danny and sorta like Lindsay.

I agree with what Top41 said about this. The fact that so much about Lindsay's character comes back to Danny when it is discussed just proves that he's being used as a prop for a useless character.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Aw, come on guys. Lindsay isn't that bad.

Evidently some people think she's beyond bad, as this is the third thread dedicated to why she shouldn't even be on the show.

PerfectAnomaly said:
She already left evidence on a huge serial killer case unattended while the lab was under observation for reaccreditation . If that isn't a fireable offense - given her track record, that wasn't the first unprofessional thing she's done at work - I don't think there is one. Maybe if she killed someone (not a regular but some random lab person), but I can see TPTB even finding an excuse for that.

Surreal_44 said:
It's TVLand, where things like having your gun stolen don't matter either, right? Leaving your particular piece of evidence with another person is not quite as bad as having your gun stolen and then not reporting it, right? Or with-holding evidence that ties you to a victim from your boss? If you want to hold Lindsay accountable for her sins, you should have the same standards for others, right?

Whether or not other characters have done things wrong or should have been disciplined/fired is irrelevant to my opinion of Lindsay's worth as a character, just as my feelings for other characters is irrelevant to my dislike of Lindsay.

 

[Kimmychu]

Top41 said:
Or Quinn seemed to think that Lindsay was the anomaly on an otherwise stellar team. Hey, I think I like her even more! :lol: Quinn wasn't going to burn the lab based on one unprofessional employee. And that was the right call. But the fact that she mentioned it to Mac, twice, makes me think she didn't think it was completely inconsequential, either.

origin-nknwn said:
The fact that it was mentioned more than once says to me that Quinn actually does think there is a problem there.

Seconded, and that was exactly what I was inferring when I said Quinn was pointing Lindsay out as not doing her job well to Mac. Quinn thought there was definitely a problem there and so did Mac, or he wouldn't have talked to her in the first place. His 'admonition' was lame compared to how he chewed out other team members for far less grievous misdoings. Anyone recall how badly he told off Adam? And right in front of other people too?

Top41 said:
Yep, her first instinct was to dump the whole thing in Danny's lap. What a stellar employee, not to mention friend/girlfriend/whatever the hell she thinks she is to Danny. You could read it as her realizing Mac wasn't going to swallow the BS, too.

Hah, yeah, Lindsay doesn't strike me as the type to ever apologize for anything unless she's caught red-handed in a corner and can't get out of it any other way. The fact she even did dump the whole thing on Danny's lap already shows her unprofessionalism. And she did it in reaction to Mac, her boss, who also happens to be Danny's boss and knows it's not Danny's responsibility at all. She got off way too easy for that.

I don't know what the writers hoped to achieve with writing that Lindsay gets just a lame slap on the wrist while other members get chewed out by Mac. The suspension of realism in that aspect is not helping Lindsay's character at all.

origin-nkwn said:
As to her conversation with Mac, there is no excuse for her trying to shift the blame onto Danny. That to me reeked of her trying to get him into trouble for the wrongs she perceives he's done to her and then back-pedalling when she realised who she was saying it to.

Now that's an interesting perspective on it. So, she's so damn petty she's more than happy to make Danny look bad in front of their boss just to make herself feel better and only backs up and 'apologizes' for it when she figures out Mac isn't going to believe that for a second. Hmm, petty, selfish, incapable of seeing her own faults and has bloated self-importance.

Yeesh, that sure sounds like her, alright! :lol:

Top41 said:

Not that I'm expecting any of my ideas to sway anyone's opinions on Lindsay, I just thought I'd point out those few things. You will all hate Lindsay and love Danny the way I hate Danny and sorta like Lindsay.

Why does it always come down to Lindsay vs. Danny for you? I'm just curious, because loving Danny doesn't equate to hating Lindsay. Plenty of people love them both, and plenty are indifferent to/dislike him and dislike her as well.

I'll just say this much: I love the Search option of this board and the past posts it can dredge up. :evil:

It's hilarious some people keep presuming we dislike Lindsay just because of Danny. Is this good ol' Mr. Projection at work as usual or what?

So much discussion of her character seems to come back to Danny...which just further proves that he's pretty much the prop holding her up.

:guffaw: BINGO!

 

[Shytownmofo]

I agree. Lindsay has NEVER been held accountable for any of her unprofessional actions. Anyone else would have been chewed a new one, given disciplinary action, or outright fired.

Also, I know that in CSI: LV, and in Miami, there's some sort of policy about interoffice romances. What's the deal with New York? The way Quinn pointed that out, it almost seemed like there is a policy in place.

However, her unproffessional behavior includes:

The thing with the evidence in LWFM

Running away from the crime scene in Silent Night

The way she just slammed the clipboard or whatever it was into Danny's hands in RND

Her Monologue of Doom speech

Trying to pass the buck onto Danny, saying that she thought he'd take care of the evidence.

Note that both when she left the evidence out and ran from the crime scene, she really didn't get any consequences. Yeah, when she told Stella to mind her own business, she got a talking to, but then, because she wigged out in the morgue it became okay.

Then, in LWFM, all Mac said was "I'm worried about you." I shudder to think what would have happened if Adam, Danny, or Hawkes would have done that. Heck, if they'd have done anything listed above, they'd be in a world of hurt. TPTB need to stop giving Saint Lindsay a free pass with everything, and let her have consequences.

Also, don't even get me started on her hypocritical behavior towards Danny.....

 

[Faylinn]

Surreal_44 said:

Actually, Quinn stated that aside from the anomaly with Lindsay, the lab and the team are fine. There is no indication whatsoever that Quinn seemed to believe that Lindsay was a bad employee.

No, that means that Lindsay's mishandling of evidence was an anomaly in the otherwise up-to-standards evidence handling of the whole team. Being the only wrong thing doesn't make it any less wrong. Quinn was giving her assessment of the entire team, not just Lindsay--it's just that she was the only one that f*cked up.

Quinn did Lindsay and Mac a big favor by not including it in her official report.

It's TVLand, where things like having your gun stolen don't matter either, right? Leaving your particular piece of evidence with another person is not quite as bad as having your gun stolen and then not reporting it, right?

The fact that Flack had Danny bring Rikki to the station implies to me that the situation was reported. He didn't bring her by for a tour. Even if Flack pulled strings or they went easy on Rikki, I would assume that the question of where she got a gun to point at Ollie came up. So it wasn't so much a matter of not reporting the incident as it was waiting to report the incident.

Or are we supposed to cuss Danny out for not keeping his gun in his pocket when he's at home and therefore leaving it open to be stolen? Yes, he should have reported that the gun was stolen, but instead he made sure a possible murder wasn't committed. We could debate whether or not that deserves a reprimand or official write-up all day long, but it really shouldn't be in here of all places.

Kimmychu said:

Anyone recall how badly he told off Adam? And right in front of other people too?

Grr. Yeah, Adam, how dare you give your results to Gerrard! Mac was not only mean, but he was also unreasonable (why shouldn't Adam give the results to someone who not only has authority over him, but over Mac as well?)--and he didn't coddle Adam afterwards and tell him he's a special snowflake.

Lindsay: the speshulest snowflake in the crime lab.

 

[jolein]

The fact that Quinn pointed out that Lindsay left evidence unattended because of something that Danny said,shows enough about her character.

Also,you can`t compare Danny`s behaviour with Lindsay,simply because they both come from different sides.
Danny does the things he does out of instinct,which sometimes goes wrong and sometimes goes right.
Lindsay does things calculated and she is manipulative.
She wants everything to go her way and when it doesn`t she looks for a scapegoat to blame.

 

[Top41]

The fact that Quinn pointed out that Lindsay left evidence unattended because of something that Danny said,shows enough about her character.

Yeah, I think the fact that her first instinct was to try to pin it on Danny says a lot about her and her integrity.

Also,you can`t compare Danny`s behaviour with Lindsay,simply because they both come from different sides.
Danny does the things he does out of instinct,which sometimes goes wrong and sometimes goes right.
Lindsay does things calculated and she is manipulative.
She wants everything to go her way and when it doesn`t she looks for a scapegoat to blame.

Really good point. With Lindsay, it's always someone else's fault. Mac sent her back to the lab rather than letting her process the bloody crime scene--no fair! Stella asks her why she left a crime scene so she yells at Stella rather than saying she messed up/telling Stella she had to leave for personal reasons. And Danny, well it's always Danny's fault: she makes him chase her for an explanation as to why she stood him up, she gets mad at him for not confiding in her during his grieving process, and she tried to pawn the evidence stuff off on him.

In real life, I can't stand people who don't take responsibility for their actions. It's a pet peeve of mine--if you mess up, own up to it. Don't blame someone else and don't play the "poor me" card. Own up and apologize and don't let it happen again. So maybe that's part of why I don't like Lindsay.

 

[Kimmychu]

Top41 said:
Mac sent her back to the lab rather than letting her process the bloody crime scene--no fair! Stella asks her why she left a crime scene so she yells at Stella rather than saying she messed up/telling Stella she had to leave for personal reasons. And Danny, well it's always Danny's fault: she makes him chase her for an explanation as to why she stood him up, she gets mad at him for not confiding in her during his grieving process, and she tried to pawn the evidence stuff off on him.

Work-wise, that already makes three strikes. If this was a baseball game, she'd be out and long gone by now.

Personal-wise ... geez, I am amazed she hasn't been slapped yet for being such a self-centered, manipulative brat.

In real life, I can't stand people who don't take responsibility for their actions. It's a pet peeve of mine--if you mess up, own up to it. Don't blame someone else and don't play the "poor me" card. Own up and apologize and don't let it happen again. So maybe that's part of why I don't like Lindsay.

Same here. Personally, they are pretty much right up there with hypocrites for me. And Lindsay, she's both. So yeah, Lindsay being a hypocrite who never takes responsibility for her own actions, always blames it on other people and tries to paint herself as the victim AND unrealistically gets away with her bull***t to the point other characters become OOC makes me want to hurl tons of bricks at her.

 

[Sammy11]

Grr. Yeah, Adam, how dare you give your results to Gerrard! Mac was not only mean, but he was also unreasonable (why shouldn't Adam give the results to someone who not only has authority over him, but over Mac as well?)--and he didn't coddle Adam afterwards and tell him he's a special snowflake.

Lindsay: the speshulest snowflake in the crime lab.

First of all Fay, :guffaw:

Now onto the point, rather that just reiterate what you have all laid out above I think that is one of the main problems I have with Lindsey. She is treated differently.

I think with the exception of Sid (Maka and Angell) all of the team have at one point or another been ripped a new one by Mac. Hawkes and Adam publically which was incredibly unprofessional by Mac (and something that still bothers me), he has laid into Flack who by all accounts got quite bratty (which is one of Flack's negative traits) but at least it showed the audience that guess what nobody is above being reprimanded when they play up, make a mistake and so on.

She isn't special and the weird thing is I think TPTB try to show us she isn't with all the "Bad" stuff that happens to her, dead friends, guy she likes not in love with, blah, blah, blah, but actually fail to write her like a normal human being when it comes to her functioning as a working adult.

It wasn't even a formal slap on the wrists, Mac asked her to explain herself. Where as Hawkes and Adam didn't even have a chance to open their mouths to defend themselves.

Fair enough the actress did want to leave but at least Aiden got fired.

I'm not biased, I though Stella was actually pretty hard on Lindsey when she shouted at her in the office when Lindsey was trying to make sure Stella was looking at the other angles (and not just domestic violence) but we could all sees Stella's reasoning, so regardless on where you stood on that scene you knew why Stella behaved like she did. Lindsey's behaviour gets explained after the event, which reeks of excuses.

And like Top and Kimmy, sorry but if you can't take responsibility then you need to learn to grow up.

Lindsey back pedalled, why? Because your boss doesn't want to know why you didn't do something, they actually want to know that you know it was wrong, that you are sorry you did it and that it won't happen again. End of. And they certainly don't want to know that your personal time is taking up your paid hours.

The point is though that TPTB needed a scene for Lindsey where we saw a little more of her thoughts on D/L.

It's stopped being a prop, it's now scaffolding!