Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[origin-nknwn]

I can't help but compare her to Rikki (and no, I'm not trying to turn this into a ship thing, I'm just pointing it out)--Danny didn't even know she was moving (no chance for angst or for him to try to convince her otherwise, I suppose). She arranged things quickly and quietly and then came to him to tell him in open, honest terms. She didn't want him to apologize (you know he must have felt like he'd done something else wrong and failed again), she told him he was sweet, and the way she touched his face was tender and caring.

Basically, she was making a change to try to lessen her own pain, but it was obvious that she didn't want to hurt Danny either. This is the woman who could, by rights, blame Danny for her son's death. When you compare that to Lindsay...

I actually think this is an interesting comparison and I'm glad you pointed it out.

When you consider how Rikki dealt with Danny in this episode, when she has every reason to despise him, it makes Lindsay look even more pathetic.

 

[Redsiren]

I can't help but compare her to Rikki (and no, I'm not trying to turn this into a ship thing, I'm just pointing it out)--Danny didn't even know she was moving (no chance for angst or for him to try to convince her otherwise, I suppose). She arranged things quickly and quietly and then came to him to tell him in open, honest terms. She didn't want him to apologize (you know he must have felt like he'd done something else wrong and failed again), she told him he was sweet, and the way she touched his face was tender and caring.

Basically, she was making a change to try to lessen her own pain, but it was obvious that she didn't want to hurt Danny either. This is the woman who could, by rights, blame Danny for her son's death. She clearly cares about Danny, but she doesn't love him, not the way Lindsay claims to. When you compare the way they act toward Danny in this episode...

Absolutely agreed. If Rikki took things the way Lindsay has been taking them, Danny wouldn't have even been here now, 'cause she would've shot him for killing her son.

Instead, she's mature enough to realize that it was an accident, and doesn't blame him in the slightest.

Meanwhile, all Lindsay's got to complain about it that he didn't come to her for comfort? GROW UP, Montana.

 

[Kimmychu]

Lindsay is too immature and shallow to be in an adult relationship, pure and simple. The way she's been written this season (and even in past seasons), it's like she lives in a bubble of her own and assumes the entire world revolves according to how she thinks it should, just like she assumes Danny should fit her expectations of what a man in her life should be like, right down to how and when he approaches her. :wtf::wtf::wtf:

What does she do when he doesn't act according to what she wants? She becomes a self-centered brat who treats Danny like a dog and emotionally manipulates him into believing it's all his fault even when it isn't.

And all this ... when a child he cared a lot for died in his care.

UGH. Disgusting. I totally agree with PerfectAnomaly who mentioned in the grading thread for episode 4x19 that Lindsay's behavior set women back by 30 years. :scream:

And the huge WTF to me is that there are people who actually think Lindsay is being 'too nice' to Danny and that Danny's the one who's doing her wrong all the time! Oh, I forgot. Lindsay's perfect because Danny wuvs her forever and ever and anything that's wrong with her has to be the writers' fault for making her look bad. Oh, and even though he's a scumbag cheater if he goes grovelling back to her feet and worships her like a goddess, that's just fine! Hah.

 

[privatename]

Lindsay is too immature and shallow to be in an adult relationship, pure and simple. The way she's been written this season (and even in past seasons), it's like she lives in a bubble of her own and assumes the entire world revolves according to how she thinks it should, just like she assumes Danny should fit her expectations of what a man in her life should be like, right down to how and when he approaches her. :wtf::wtf::wtf:

What does she do when he doesn't act according to what she wants? She becomes a self-centered brat who treats Danny like a dog and emotionally manipulates him into believing it's all his fault even when it isn't.

And all this ... when a child he cared a lot for died in his care.

I agree with what you said here. Self-centered brat is a great description of Lindsay and her behavior. It truly is amazing to me that there are many people who don't see that Lindsay has been selfish especially in this context. If you truly love someone, and that is apparently what we are supposed to believe here, why would you so completely disregard what they are going through? It is completely selfish for her to make it all about how she wants him to act and her time frame.

 

[Kimmychu]

privatename said:
If you truly love someone, and that is apparently what we are supposed to believe here, why would you so completely disregard what they are going through? It is completely selfish for her to make it all about how she wants him to act and her time frame.

Precisely!

And if you truly love someone, you wouldn't expect them to act the way you want them to and when you want them to, would you? You'd love them for who they are, without expecting them to change themselves just to suit a fantasy in your head.

Also, did anyone else make a disgusted face when Lindsay mentioned how 'hard' it was to love Danny?

 

[origin-nknwn]

And if you truly love someone, you wouldn't expect them to act the way you want them to and when you want them to, would you? You'd love them for who they are, without expecting them to change themselves just to suit a fantasy in your head.

Also, did anyone else make a disgusted face when Lindsay mentioned how 'hard' it was to love Danny?

Yes, I did. It was just so trite.

If you really care for and love someone, it should never ever be hard to have those feelings for that person. Love is unconditional - when you start saying it is difficult because of a person's behaviour, you are attaching a condition that a person should not do certain things that make it hard for you.

 

[JellyBelly]

If you really care for and love someone, it should never ever be hard to have those feelings for that person. Love is unconditional - when you start saying it is difficult because of a person's behaviour, you are attaching a condition that a person should not do certain things that make it hard for you.

I actually think there are very few relationships that are unconditional. In fact imo unconditional love tends to fall mainly between a parent and child. That's not to say people fall in and out of love easily dependent on each other's behaviour, but I think there are conditions placed on relationships all the time.

I think Danny was less bothered by her telling him it was hard than most fans. He smiled. I think that was just Lindsay reiterating that she loved him, not wanting to appear weak by letting down her guard and just blurting out that she loved him. Makes sense to me.

 

[PalmettoHunna]

Hi guys! *waves* I'm new in the way that I have been lurking around the board for a while...but let me get to my point.

Lindsay's character is written to be a perfect fit on Gossip Girl rather than a show focused around the work and lives of people 30+. I personally do not know whether it is Anna's performance, the writing, or a combination of both. Fact is (and by fact I mean imo) that TPTB are constantly using valuable time and great characters and actors (Danny obviously, Stella, Mac) to elevate an incomplete and non-dynamic character.

Honestly, I cannot be the only one who every time they watch Anna/Lindsay pine after and then push Danny away like some distressed Homecoming Queen that wants to beat themselves in the head with a banana, because she just set adult women back to the age of King Henry and his eight wives. As first I thought it was Anna Belknap, but I am beginning to think the person writing the DNA storyline is 35-year-old man who still lives with his mother and has never had a girlfriend.

She is selfish.... end of story. There is no excuse for her to be mad at Danny for not going to her to grieve. What happened in her past was tragic, but in no way her fault...while I do not think that Rueben’s death was Danny's fault he carries the guilt of being the adult in charge who failed to keep is charge safe. But to Lindsay it is perfectly okay to pile more guilt on top of someone because how he or she grieves isn't to her taste; real mature glad to see she was heart.

Come on no real person could ever be that cold and not have someone drop kick them in the face...twice! She is rude and inconsiderate...nothing personal but I don't think they could change the character enough to make her tolerable short of giving her a lobotomy (not realistic), so the only real option is get her off the show.

This is why I would not be heart broken if TPTB wrote her off the series. Besides if they get rid of her there is nothing standing in the way of Flack and Danny from making out like horny teenagers on her old desk...just a thought.

 

[Kimmychu]

JellyBelly said:
I actually think there are very few relationships that are unconditional. In fact imo unconditional love tends to fall mainly between a parent and child. That's not to say people fall in and out of love easily dependent on each other's behaviour, but I think there are conditions placed on relationships all the time.

Even between a parent and a child, the love isn't necessarily unconditional. I think it all comes down to individual cases of relationships and looking at each one without placing them into any general category. That's because everybody's different and that also means every relationship is different in some aspect or another.

The thing about Danny/Lindsay is that it has been very one-sided with Danny being the one always to bow down to Lindsay's demands, even now. And when he doesn't, well, we've seen on screen for ourselves what she does to him when she doesn't get what she wants from him. In fact, it seems whatever's going on between them has the most biased conditions and terms I've ever seen set on one person to cater to another's whims, packaged with condenscending punishment if those conditions and terms aren't met.

Even conditional love is way better than that.

I think Danny was less bothered by her telling him it was hard than most fans. He smiled. I think that was just Lindsay reiterating that she loved him, not wanting to appear weak by letting down her guard and just blurting out that she loved him. Makes sense to me.

Considering what Danny's gone through in his past and throughout the seasons of the show (yeah, I don't just selectively view certain episodes or scenes, I watch all of it), to me, his smile when she said it was hard to love him was him getting confirmation of where she felt she stood in relation to him and knowing what to say to her so she'd be appeased and finally talk to him instead of ignoring him like an immature teenager.

And if she didn't want to appear weak, she should have just talked to him like a mature adult from the get go. How ironic that her saying it was hard to love him made her sound weak to me, as well as manipulative. Now that I think about it, Danny could very well have smiled because he knew what Lindsay was trying to pull and wasn't going to fall for it this time. Heh, having thought about that now, him asking her to come over to his apartment to tell him in person could also very well have been him testing her to see just how sincere she was about what she said.

(It isn't the first time he's done it, by the way. He did it just a couple of episodes before, directly in the labs when he said to rent the Jaws movie. He sure didn't look sorry about it, even after she said 'this is hard' and walked away.)

As of right now, we don't know whether she actually went to his apartment or not. The way she ended the phone call seems to indicate she didn't.

PalmettoHunna said:
Lindsay's character is written to be a perfect fit on Gossip Girl rather than a show focused around the work and lives of people 30+. I personally do not know whether it is Anna's performance, the writing, or a combination of both. Fact is (and by fact I mean imo) that TPTB are constantly using valuable time and great characters and actors (Danny obviously, Stella, Mac) to elevate an incomplete and non-dynamic character.

:lol: Gossip Girl! In other words, Lindsay's a bratty, two-dimensional teenager in a world of three-dimensional people? You could say the general opinion here is that it's a combination of both. Some people tend to place the fault more on the writers and some people more on the actress. Me, I lean more towards the fault being more on the actress because Melina Kanakeredes has gotten bad storyplots to act out before on the show, and she did them just fine because she can actually act.

Honestly, I cannot be the only one who every time they watch Anna/Lindsay pine after and then push Danny away like some distressed Homecoming Queen that wants to beat themselves in the head with a banana, because she just set adult women back to the age of King Henry and his eight wives.

:lol: Interesting analogy there. Yeah, what's going on now, I blame a lot of it on the writers. Plain bad writing, I must say. It is a sad day when I must say that it's on par with online badfic. Gah.

But to Lindsay it is perfectly okay to pile more guilt on top of someone because how he or she grieves isn't to her taste; real mature glad to see she was heart.

You want even more WTF? That there are people who actually think she's 'awesome' for treating Danny that way and that she should be even more self-centered. :wtf::wtf::wtf:

 

[origin-nknwn]

Honestly, I cannot be the only one who every time they watch Anna/Lindsay pine after and then push Danny away like some distressed Homecoming Queen that wants to beat themselves in the head with a banana, because she just set adult women back to the age of King Henry and his eight wives.

To be honest, the thing I find most distressing is that there are female fans who do not even realise that the behaviour she's displaying on the show is setting them back. They think that a character that manipulates to get her way is the definition of a strong and independent woman. It makes me wonder what crack these people are smoking.

At this rate we might as well go back to the times where women's intuition was seen as a paranormal ability and women were burned as witches...

 

[AbbyD]

I originally posted this on the Personal Foul thread, but I'd like to run it up the flag pole for this crowd.

I admit I'm not a Lindsey fan, but I did like Rikki even though I thought stealing Danny's gun to shoot the bodega robber was completely stupid. Understandable under the circumstances, but stupid. I'm with Flack on this one. It could have gotten Rikki and Danny both in prison for murder, or attempted murder. And add the additional insult that the robber gets off scot free.

What are the opinions of this thread? How far away did Rikki move?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSINYMIA000

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyD
New Question:

From reading the posts it appears that some people believe that Rikki has moved out of NYC entirely.

Why?

I remember her saying that she was moving. I took that to mean that she was moving out of the apartment which she had shared with her (now dead) son.

I can understand her moving out of the apartment and that particular apartment building. Maybe even out of the neighborhood.

But why would one assume that she is moving from the city?


Any thoughts?

Well, she did say she needed a fresh start..............."too many memories"

and if she stays in NY - there is a chance they may run into each other

again...which wouldn't be good for either one of them, especially now that he wants get back with Lindsay
(maybe for good)


Just a thought...............

Leaving the city seems a bit extreme. She'd also have to leave her job and family. The only way it makes sense to me is if she was not a native New Yorker and returned to her place of origin (OK, that made her sound like an alien from outer space :lol We have no info on that either way.

What's the population of greater NYC? 8 or 9 million? It would be pretty darn easy to avoid Danny if that was what she wanted to do.

For me, I find her the only one to come out of the whole D/L/R triangle as a functioning adult. I like her.

Granted, she lost it a bit for a while there. But now she seems to have the grit to start rebuilding her life.

I like to think of her in NYC. Maybe she'll show up in a couple of months and snap Danny into realizing that Lindsey isn't all he thought she was. BTW, what exactly does Danny think Lindsey is?

 

[Elsie]

To be honest, the thing I find most distressing is that there are female fans who do not even realise that the behaviour she's displaying on the show is setting them back. They think that a character that manipulates to get her way is the definition of a strong and independent woman. It makes me wonder what crack these people are smoking.

At this rate we might as well go back to the times where women's intuition was seen as a paranormal ability and women were burned as witches...

I'm rather confused. Why is Lindsay's behaviour supposedly setting women back? That statement gives Lindsay rather more credit than I personally would usually attribute to her. Lindsay may be behaving rather oddly, and whilst I believe that her continual refusal to have a talk with Danny or to give him any indication of when she will stop behaving so immaturely definitely paints her in a negative and somewhat ridiculous light, I'm not sure what part of that sets women back in general? Unless I'm missing something, or we are all in fact poorly conceived and badly written characters acted in an unconvincing manner.

eta: AbbyD, I haven't really given any thought to how far Rikki was planning to move. I think her motives were complex and that where she was living had too many memories, maybe she moved just out of the borough or completely out of NYC, either way I doubt we'll see her again.

 

[Faylinn]

I don't know that Lindsay is 'setting women back', but she's not doing herself--or Danny--any favors with the way she's acting.

I'm also not sure that all women are "poorly conceived and badly written characters acted in an unconvincing manner", but I like to think I could be more sympathetic in that situation. Someone I care about is grieving and going through a rough time, and sure, I might feel like I could help (and maybe I could), but having a bit of a shit-fit that the person doesn't come to me, and subsequently pushing them away when they try to make up for something they probably didn't even realize they were doing--I like to think I'm not programmed to act that way.

PalmettoHunna, welcome to the thread. I'm not sure they could make the character seem worthwhile to me after three seasons of mediocrity, and I honestly think the best thing to do would be to get rid of her. Sheldon could get more CSI time, and they could always bring in a female lab tech (preferably not Kendall, but beggers can't be choosers) to make sure there's enough estrogen in the lab--although Stella's boobies could possibly count as a character of their own.

As for Rikki, I get the feeling that wherever she's going, whether it be across town or across the country, Danny won't be seeing her again any time soon--she wanted to get away from the memories, and Danny is part of that. She made sure to tell him he was a sweet man, and I'm sure she realized that Danny would be hurting over her decision, but she had to do it and he can't blame her for that. Not sure what that has to do with Lindsay aside from the fact that now Danny isn't trying to please her and Rikki, so Lindsay gets more 'Me' time, but anywho...

 

[Top41]

I think Danny was less bothered by her telling him it was hard than most fans. He smiled. I think that was just Lindsay reiterating that she loved him, not wanting to appear weak by letting down her guard and just blurting out that she loved him. Makes sense to me.

Danny smiled because Danny's a damaged character who doesn't expect anything better than to be treated like shit. I think that's Lindsay's number one draw for him--he seemed totally uninterested in her when she was being nice to him. But the moment she starts treating him like crap, he goes back for more. Her saying, "Do you have any idea how hard it is to love you?" affirms everything that Danny has ever thought about himself, most specifically that he doesn't really deserve to be loved or treated well.

Hi guys! *waves* I'm new in the way that I have been lurking around the board for a while...but let me get to my point.

Lindsay's character is written to be a perfect fit on Gossip Girl rather than a show focused around the work and lives of people 30+. I personally do not know whether it is Anna's performance, the writing, or a combination of both. Fact is (and by fact I mean imo) that TPTB are constantly using valuable time and great characters and actors (Danny obviously, Stella, Mac) to elevate an incomplete and non-dynamic character.

Welcome to the board and the thread, PalmettoHunna! And I could not agree with you more--not only is Lindsay a waste of space, but she sucks time and development away from the other characters. And that really is to the show's detriment.

Honestly, I cannot be the only one who every time they watch Anna/Lindsay pine after and then push Danny away like some distressed Homecoming Queen that wants to beat themselves in the head with a banana, because she just set adult women back to the age of King Henry and his eight wives. As first I thought it was Anna Belknap, but I am beginning to think the person writing the DNA storyline is 35-year-old man who still lives with his mother and has never had a girlfriend.

Oh, you aren't alone at all! The way Lindsay acts (and to be fair, Danny too) is so incredibly and unrealistically immature that she comes off more as a bratty teen than a believable and complex woman.

She is selfish.... end of story. There is no excuse for her to be mad at Danny for not going to her to grieve. What happened in her past was tragic, but in no way her fault...while I do not think that Rueben’s death was Danny's fault he carries the guilt of being the adult in charge who failed to keep is charge safe. But to Lindsay it is perfectly okay to pile more guilt on top of someone because how he or she grieves isn't to her taste; real mature glad to see she was heart.

Her treatment of Danny is downright cruel. If she'd know about Rikki, I'd be the first to call her justified. But the fact that she didn't--that she was mad about him over the fact that he didn't grieve the way she wanted him to makes her come off as a selfish, spoiled, childish hypocrite given the way she pushed him away just a season ago.

Come on no real person could ever be that cold and not have someone drop kick them in the face...twice! She is rude and inconsiderate...nothing personal but I don't think they could change the character enough to make her tolerable short of giving her a lobotomy (not realistic), so the only real option is get her off the show.

Agreed completely.

This is why I would not be heart broken if TPTB wrote her off the series. Besides if they get rid of her there is nothing standing in the way of Flack and Danny from making out like horny teenagers on her old desk...just a thought.

I love the way you think.

To be honest, the thing I find most distressing is that there are female fans who do not even realise that the behaviour she's displaying on the show is setting them back. They think that a character that manipulates to get her way is the definition of a strong and independent woman. It makes me wonder what crack these people are smoking.

At this rate we might as well go back to the times where women's intuition was seen as a paranormal ability and women were burned as witches...

I'm rather confused. Why is Lindsay's behaviour supposedly setting women back? That statement gives Lindsay rather more credit than I personally would usually attribute to her. Lindsay may be behaving rather oddly, and whilst I believe that her continual refusal to have a talk with Danny or to give him any indication of when she will stop behaving so immaturely definitely paints her in a negative and somewhat ridiculous light, I'm not sure what part of that sets women back in general? Unless I'm missing something, or we are all in fact poorly conceived and badly written characters acted in an unconvincing manner.

I think origin-nknwn is saying that Lindsay's behavior makes us look bad. To go back to what PalmettoHunna said, Lindsay is acting the way a man without much real experience or perspective on women would write her to act--ie, not very realistically. I think men think women act like brats when they're mad, and to be fair, sometimes we don't come right out and say what's pissing us off, but Lindsay storming away three times took it way too far. When the guy is ready to talk, most women will at least hear him out.

So Lindsay's behavior isn't really telling of most actual women, but I see the point about her making women look bad.

eta: AbbyD, I haven't really given any thought to how far Rikki was planning to move. I think her motives were complex and that where she was living had too many memories, maybe she moved just out of the borough or completely out of NYC, either way I doubt we'll see her again.

I think Rikki is gone for good, but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

In the PF grading thread I said this:

Oh, and of course, Lindsay, who told Mac two weeks ago that getting involved with a co-worker was "really stupid" goes running the minute Danny returns to his lap dog behavior and asks her to come to his place. Wow. What a strong, independent character. I think she just set women back about 30 years. :wtf:

What I meant when I said she was setting women back 30 years was that she seems to me to not be able to survive without a boyfriend even if he treats her badly. I don't think Danny has treated Lindsay badly, but I think Lindsay thinks Danny has treated her badly. It also stems from the fact that to me it appeared Lindsay was looking hurriedly for transportation to run to Danny's apartment. They've never even talked about things face to face yet, all he did was apologize to her over the phone. I don't think a strong, independent woman would do that if she was so pissed at her boyfriend that she told him she had to "let go" of her love for him two weeks prior. I just thought it was a bad way to portray a female character who is supposed to be an intelligent professional. I personally don't find her to be an intelligent professional, well I don't find her to be professional; but I think the intention is for the audience to find her to be that. It's kinda like how Stella can be portrayed as so strong and awesome, yet her taste in men has to absolutely suck.