Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[origin-nknwn]

With Lindsay, mild curiosity and optimism turned into boredom, pessimism and annoyance.

Same here. I tried to like her, really I did. But the more time has gone on, the more annoying I find her character.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Question for everyone: Are we saying then that physical attraction has absolutely no bearing on how we perceive characters? Like if Danny had a beer belly, really crooked teeth and a comb-over you would still adore him as much as you do now?

If said beer-bellied man had the same acting skillz as Carmine does, would you still like Danny?

You seem to be fixated on the characters' looks. Why does it have to be all or nothing? First it was implied people were using looks as the main or sole basis for their opinion of a character. When that is refuted, now it's asked if it has absolutely nothing to do with opinion of a character. :wtf:

I and others have already said that we've talked about how perceptions/judgments would change if characters were less attractive, a woman instead of a man, etc. Yes, it does affect people's judgments to a certain degree; but many don't see it as the main or deciding factor on overall likability of a character.

 

[Top41]

On the topic of a character's attractiveness having anything to do with whether or not I like that character, I can give a firm 'no.'

Dwight from The Office isn't really attractive--I love him and think he's a fantastic character. I remember being shocked that a character who looked like Willow on Buffy was on TV--I love the character and the actress and her looks, which I was hard on at first, grew on me. I could probably trot out more examples if I took the time to think of them.

The only difference Danny being hot makes is that if he was a real person, I'd probably find him attractive.

Let's take this to real life--I've known some very attractive people I've found downright despicable, and some not attractive people I've found to be great. I could go far down this path, but I will leave it at the fact that me finding Lindsay to be plain and Danny to be hot has nothing to do with me disliking her and liking him.

Look, I don't want to be disrespectful, but that's NOT what I was saying. I own up to what I say. If I wanted to suggest that people dislike Lindsay only because she's dating Danny, I would say it.

I apologize if I misinterpreted this:

Originally Posted by Surreal_44
Given that many objections surround Lindsay's relationship with Danny, and that most (if not all of them) also are attracted to Danny, I think it is in fact fair to say that Danny's prettiness has as much to do with people liking him AND for them disliking Lindsay.

If you want me to be totally honest, I will. I think that there is probably at least one person in the world (not on this forum, necessarily) who dislikes Lindsay solely because she's romantically entangled with Danny. I've seen it happen in other fandoms, so I don't think it's unrealistic that someone would fall into this category.

There is probably at least one person in this world that thinks just about anything you can dream of, as evinced by the lady in tinfoil in last week's CSI episode. :lol:

Again, not to be disrespectful, but I don't think there is enough canon evidence to suggest that Lindsay is purposefully emotionally manipulative, and there is little to no evidence to suggest that Lindsay is selfish, let alone pathologically so.

Again, interpretation. You sympathize with her and excuse her actions while I don't. Fair enough, but I think in this thread there are plenty of examples of where people believe she's been emotionally manipulative and selfish.

She certainly is no more manipulative than Mac or Danny or even Stella are, and in the case of selfishness I think Danny probably wins hands down.

They are each selfish in their own ways, but what I have seen on screen convinces me Danny cares about other people. I've seen very little to convince me Lindsay does.

Also, not to get into a pissing contest over who has had the worst experiences, but I've known my fair share of manipulators and selfish people, and I gotta say Lindsay doesn't even come close to what they're like.

There are definitely far worse people than Lindsay, people who are much more manipulative and selfish than Lindsay. There are degrees of everything. I didn't say she was Hitler. :lol: I just don't like her because I believe she is manipulative and selfish.

Explain the whimsical and inconsistency to me. If you're going to talk about Season Three, we know that there was a cause for the mood swings. Danny seems to be having the same issue now, if I recall. He's grieving over Ruben, ignoring Lindsay then suddenly he's back to teasing/flirting with her at work and we still don't know what he feels for her.

Danny has been inconsistent, although nothing we've seen as yet (and I haven't seen tonight's episode yet, so this may change) has shown him as anything but a guy who changed his mind about a girl and who pulled away. I do think he led her on if he doesn't have feelings for her.

She was the one who accepted a date, didn't show up, and didn't offer an explanation until chased down. She leaned on him in "Oedipus Hex," taking advantage of his feelings for her. And then after he did what he said he'd do--be there for her as a friend--she went from pushing him away to pulling him in for a kiss and screwing him on a pool table.

Are you sure? What in canon says that she wouldn't have said it to Mac? And what supports your belief that it's calculated and not just a knee-jerk reaction to desperately not wanting to do something?

Lindsay has not been shy about being unenthusiastic about doing things to Mac before, even if she was resigned to doing it. Those are actually some of Lindsay's best scenes. I think if Mac had been there he probably would have made her talk to the mother, but I think he would have taken note of her reaction as well and had a little sit-down with her about it.

Lindsay has complained about things Mac has asked her to do, but it's always behind his back. I don't recall her ever complaining to his face. She pulls it with Danny to play on his sympathies. The only other time she's tried to worm out of something was with Stella, but thankfully Stella didn't let her get away with it. She's never tried it with Mac, most likely because she knows she wouldn't be able to get away with it.

I don't think that the writers are trying to make you go "Poor Lindsay" anymore than they try to get me to say "Poor Danny" or "Poor Mac" or "Poor Stella". I think they like to write angst and put most of the characters on the show through the wringer, and they succeed.

I feel like Danny and Mac and even at times Stella are written to be seen in an unsympathetic light, because they're well-rounded characters with believable flaws. I feel like we're always supposed to give Lindsay a pass, much like Mac, who never gives people passes, did in "Like Water For Murder" because all her friends died in a shootout a decade ago or her mean boyfriend is pushing her away. I don't like to feel like I'm being manipulated into feeling something for a character. Even with Ruben's death, while I feel for Danny, I also blame him. His first duty was to that child, and it's at least partially his fault that Ruben is dead. I don't give characters a pass, even when I like them.

I'm surprised any of the characters can still function after everything they've been through. :lol:

On that we can definitely agree.

 

[Redsiren]

*tugs at her hair* Seriously? SERIOUSLY!?!

Spoiler: episode 19

Not only was she pushing him away tonight, but she seemed downright mean to me in this episode. Not in what she said or anything, just in her body language and her tone of voice with Danny.

At least SOMEONE on the team gets it. Thank you, Flack.

Bless Danny, the guy's trying his hardest, but it seems like Lindsay's just out to hurt him now.
And is it just me or was the first scene with her, Danny, and Flack EXTRA awkward. It seemed like no one wanted to be doing that particular scene. Maybe I'm overreading, but that's the vibe I got out of it.

I'm just...frustrated with her.

Dear Lindsay.

Please make up your damn mind, 'cause I'm runnin' out of rope here.

 

[origin-nknwn]

There are definitely far worse people than Lindsay, people who are much more manipulative and selfish than Lindsay. There are degrees of everything. I didn't say she was Hitler. :lol: I just don't like her because I believe she is manipulative and selfish.

Ohnoes...Godwins. *runs* :lol:

 

[Faylinn]

Spoiler: 419

Oh hai, I'm Lindsay. I completely suck the life out of scenes by being completely boring and sucking you down into my vortex of emo woe.

Oh, and it's not okay to talk about personal stuff at work! It's inappropriate! Except when I wanted to talk about it, of course, then it was okey-dokey. And you want to talk to me about the zomg dramah and tenshun? Well, tough shit! I'm not going to talk about it.

...Well, if you revert to your lapdog mentality and crawl back to me, I'll consider it.

:brickwall:

 

[origin-nknwn]

Spoiler: 419

Oh hai, I'm Lindsay. I completely suck the life out of scenes by being completely boring and sucking you down into my vortex of emo woe.

Oh, and it's not okay to talk about personal stuff at work! It's inappropriate! Except when I wanted to talk about it, of course, then it was okey-dokey. And you want to talk to me about the zomg dramah and tenshun? Well, tough shit! I'm not going to talk about it.

...Well, if you revert to your lapdog mentality and crawl back to me, I'll consider it.

:brickwall:

Oh, ew. :wtf:

And Danny had only just gotten his balls surgically reattached...

 

[Redsiren]

Spoiler: 419

Oh hai, I'm Lindsay. I completely suck the life out of scenes by being completely boring and sucking you down into my vortex of emo woe.

Oh, and it's not okay to talk about personal stuff at work! It's inappropriate! Except when I wanted to talk about it, of course, then it was okey-dokey. And you want to talk to me about the zomg dramah and tenshun? Well, tough shit! I'm not going to talk about it.

...Well, if you revert to your lapdog mentality and crawl back to me, I'll consider it.

:brickwall:

I could not agree with you more. And it's obviously taking a toll on Messer, or he wouldn't have

Spoiler: 419

looked so damn hurt tonight.

Ugh.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

After she once again chastised Danny after he apologized for being selfish enough to want to grieve the death of Ruben on his own terms, thus returning him to his lap dog persona, and made sure to inform him how hard he was to love I really wanted Lindsay to end up in the killer cabbie's taxi and wind up dead. I'm just sayin'. :scream:

 

[origin-nknwn]

After she once again chastised Danny after he apologized for being selfish enough to want to grieve the death of Ruben on his own terms, thus returning him to his lap dog persona, and made sure to inform him how hard he was to love I really wanted Lindsay to end up in the killer cabbie's taxi and wind up dead. I'm just sayin'. :scream:

Tonight just showed how truly selfish and manipulative she really is. She seems to only be telling Danny what he's doing 'wrong' - a term I use loosely - so she can behave like a petulant child when he tries to put things right. Danny's self-esteem must be at an all time low to put up with this shit off her and to keep going back for more.

It's not okay for him to push her away to deal with things in his way, yet it's fine for her to do it to him. What a hypocrite. :scream:

 

[Top41]

^Agreed. If she was chewing him out for sleeping with Rikki, that would be one thing. After seeing this episode, I think maybe possibly perhaps they were together? We haven't really gotten anything from Danny other than an attempt to placate her.

And it was downright rude and hypocritical of her not to hear him out, or at least tell him when she would. As far as she knows, his only sin is shutting her out...so she does the same to him? Hypocrisy, thy name is Lindsay Monroe. And immaturity, too.

 

[origin-nknwn]

^Agreed. If she was chewing him out for sleeping with Rikki, that would be one thing. After seeing this episode, I think maybe possibly perhaps they were together? We haven't really gotten anything from Danny other than an attempt to placate her.

I'm still not totally convinced on the 'together' thing - at least not that they are on the same page as far as 'together' goes. I think Danny's about ten chapters behind and struggling to catch up.

I hope she never finds out about Rikki - my brain couldn't cope with Anna's inability to emote such a scene. :wtf:

And it was downright rude and hypocritical of her not to hear him out, or at least tell him when she would. As far as she knows, his only sin is shutting her out...so she does the same to him? Hypocrisy, thy name is Lindsay Monroe. And immaturity, too.

She was just so callous about that. If she really loved him, she wouldn't be putting more reasons to hurt on him.

 

[Faylinn]

She was just so callous about that. If she really loved him, she wouldn't be putting more reasons to hurt on him.

I can't help but compare her to Rikki (and no, I'm not trying to turn this into a ship thing, I'm just pointing it out)--Danny didn't even know she was moving (no chance for angst or for him to try to convince her otherwise, I suppose). She arranged things quickly and quietly and then came to him to tell him in open, honest terms. She didn't want him to apologize (you know he must have felt like he'd done something else wrong and failed again), she told him he was sweet, and the way she touched his face was tender and caring.

Basically, she was making a change to try to lessen her own pain, but it was obvious that she didn't want to hurt Danny either. This is the woman who could, by rights, blame Danny for her son's death. She clearly cares about Danny, but she doesn't love him, not the way Lindsay claims to. When you compare the way they act toward Danny in this episode...

I'm not saying Lindsay being upset isn't believable or understandable or whatever--I'm just saying, how long is she going to act like this without even TRYING to think about the man she supposedly 'loves'?

 

[Shytownmofo]

After she once again chastised Danny after he apologized for being selfish enough to want to grieve the death of Ruben on his own terms, thus returning him to his lap dog persona, and made sure to inform him how hard he was to love I really wanted Lindsay to end up in the killer cabbie's taxi and wind up dead. I'm just sayin'. :scream:

Truly.She needs to get over herself. He needs to grow his balls back and just let it go. Hopefully she's going to "try" to resist "loving" him. The bad part is that if she'd gotten in the killer cabbie's cab, the team probably would have rushed to save her, and most likely succeeded. Then they would have declared their "Lurve" for each other. :scream::brickwall:

Tonight just showed how truly selfish and manipulative she really is. She seems to only be telling Danny what he's doing 'wrong' - a term I use loosely - so she can behave like a petulant child when he tries to put things right. Danny's self-esteem must be at an all time low to put up with this shit off her and to keep going back for more.

It's not okay for him to push her away to deal with things in his way, yet it's fine for her to do it to him. What a hypocrite. :scream:

Totally Hyporcritical. She pushed him away for a year, and yet she chastizes him for doing that for a couple of months.

^Agreed. If she was chewing him out for sleeping with Rikki, that would be one thing. After seeing this episode, I think maybe possibly perhaps they were together? We haven't really gotten anything from Danny other than an attempt to placate her.

And it was downright rude and hypocritical of her not to hear him out, or at least tell him when she would. As far as she knows, his only sin is shutting her out...so she does the same to him? Hypocrisy, thy name is Lindsay Monroe. And immaturity, too.

Totally. Why can't they just get rid of her, slash her role (Make her a labtech, that would be good) or better yet, take her back to Season 2, where she was a smart, sassy, yet sometimes abrasive person, who was a competent CSI and interrogator who found clever ways to do things, not a selfish, whiney, unprofessional hypocrite.

I'd love to see her find out that Danny and Rikki had gotten it on. I think her head would explode and she'd spontaneously combust. Problem solved. She'd probably go running back to Montana with her tail between her legs.

 

[Shytownmofo]

^Agreed. If she was chewing him out for sleeping with Rikki, that would be one thing. After seeing this episode, I think maybe possibly perhaps they were together? We haven't really gotten anything from Danny other than an attempt to placate her.

I'm still not totally convinced on the 'together' thing - at least not that they are on the same page as far as 'together' goes. I think Danny's about ten chapters behind and struggling to catch up.

I hope she never finds out about Rikki - my brain couldn't cope with Anna's inability to emote such a scene. :wtf:

I'm confused about the together/not together thing, too. After the one episode with Quinn (can't remember the title) it seems as though they were "friends with benefits." Now, it seems as though they did have a mutual understanding, and that when Danny suggested they rent Jaws together, he was being deliberately hurtful.

I may be a bit mean, but I'm kind of hoping she does find out. Her head a splode with that bit of news. Enough to give her a nervous breakdown.