The Nick Stokes Timeline: Part 2
- Thread starter Destiny
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I agree, and I think that was the idea. Nick was not comfortable being around Grissom. I noticed that Nick did not even really look at Grissom, even when Grissom told him "Good job."
I think they are setting something up. Like I said, Grissom gave Nick a compliment, and a big one (at least for Grissom) and Nick did not react in the least. This is a big change in that Nick has always cared what Grissom thought of him and now he dosen't. How far are going with this I don't know...
Amy777
Rookie
Maybe Grissom is trying to "show" Nick that he is not "disappointed" in him. Remember in Grave Danger when Nick said that he "never meant to disappoint" him. Maybe this is Grissom's way of telling Nick that he is not disappointed, without having to tell Nick that he could read his lips when he was in the box giving his "last words." Grissom may not want to directly address that "insecurity" but he does not realize that what Nick may need is for Grissom to directly address that. Nick may not even know about the "web cam” We do not actually know how much Nick knows. He may have not been told about that. If he was not told then in order for Grissom to directly confront Nick with that statement he would also have to admit that either he heard the tape or he "invaded" the very private moment of Nick's good byes. That might be difficult even for the most "people oriented" person, and we all know Grissom does not really interact too well with people. I think Nick needs to hear the words "you never disappointed me" from Grissom but Grissom is not willing to say them, he prefers to "show" Nick. Nick needs to actually hear them. Nick is either not getting it or has convinced himself that he does not need to hear it. The fact that the tape was kept from him as well may continue to forward the message, inadvertently, to Nick that he is a disappointment to Grissom, even though Grissom does not realize that is what he is doing. If this is the case, no mount of “Good job Nick,” or “well done Nick, “ would ever convince Nick that what he thinks is not the truth.
I guess my 2 cense buys a lot of words. Hope not too many.
I guess my 2 cense buys a lot of words. Hope not too many.
I think you are right in that Grissom is trying to "reach out" to Nick...but being Grissom he has his own way of doing it. I also agree that Grissom is more of an "actions speak louder then words" sort of guy. Nick may need to hear the words in order to beleive them, but Grissom doesn't understand the need or may even think that words are (or can be) hollow. The difference is one of the things that makes the whole Grissom - Nick relationship so interesting to me.
My point was more of Nick rejecting Grissom and moreover his whole attitude and body language during the scenes it was clear that Nick was NOT comfortable around Grissom. I think that Grissom is aware of this (as I said, he is very good at reading people - he just has problems interacting with them) but given his problems with interacting with people does not have a clue as to what to do to help him.
I am looking forward to see where they are going to go with this...because I hope they are going to go somewhere.
My point was more of Nick rejecting Grissom and moreover his whole attitude and body language during the scenes it was clear that Nick was NOT comfortable around Grissom. I think that Grissom is aware of this (as I said, he is very good at reading people - he just has problems interacting with them) but given his problems with interacting with people does not have a clue as to what to do to help him.
I am looking forward to see where they are going to go with this...because I hope they are going to go somewhere.
nickstokesfan
Coroner
You know, I've sort of had it in for Grissom since that whole cassette tape incident... but the more I listen to these discussions the more I'm thinking: Grissom had good intentions. He may have not used the best judgement in keeping the tape a secret from Nick -- maybe he was being overprotective. But it's not like he did it to be mean to Nick. Of course, in his private pain, Nick can't reason that way. And Grissom, in his awkwardness in relating to people like Nick, has no clue how to undo what he's done. In fact, he may be dumbfounded by the change in Nick. But he's not the type to confront -- Cath confronts, Warrick confronts. So does Sarah. But Grissom doesn't confront -- except for work-related case stuff.
I may be wrong about all that but that's my perspective. I think Nick and Grissom are both strugging but they deal with things too differently to be able to find a common ground and deal with this. Who breaks the ice? Who puts his pride aside first? Who admits there's a problem first?
I think this is something to watch for...
I may be wrong about all that but that's my perspective. I think Nick and Grissom are both strugging but they deal with things too differently to be able to find a common ground and deal with this. Who breaks the ice? Who puts his pride aside first? Who admits there's a problem first?
I think this is something to watch for...
lemon_grass
CSI Level Two
Oh yeah. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.
"KKBB":
That's just it, though. Normally when they had a scene this long, tptb always made sure to give them something to joke around about. Maybe it's me, but I don't really remember a scene with just Nick and Archie where they didn't at least share a look or a smile. Here however, Nick had a constant scowl on his face, and Archie seemed a bit more uptight. I think it's just because we don't often see them being so businesslike together, that so many people picked up on it.
"Killer":
In the promo there was a shot where Nick looked over his shoulder at the camera, and it was edited to look like the POV of someone who's following him. Tptb were of course trying to show how the case would be seen through the killer's eyes, but the shot gave me goosebumps because it was kinda reminiscent of when the kidnapper (I still refuse to believe Walter Gordon did it all alone
) was watching him from the alley in "GD". But in the episode it was just a regular shot.Re Grissom trying to show Nick he's not dissapointed by telling him "Good job": I was going to say I don't know about that because Grissom said it in such an offhanded manner without even looking at Nick, but I looked at the clip and realized he said "I think you broke the case", and there was nothing offhand about that. I can't remember the last time Grissom said that to anyone, let alone Nick. I agree Grissom was trying to reach out to Nick in his own way.
I also want to comment on the lack of eye contact between Nick and Grissom since "DLG", which someone mentioned in the "Up in Smoke" discussion thread. In "KKBB" after Nick talked to Grissom about his findings at the party, there was an awkward pause in which Nick and Grissom locked eyes briefly and Nick quickly looked away. Now, most likely I'm reading way too much into this, and Nick just turned away to greet Catherine who just joined them, but it was a moment that made me sit up and take notice. And I can't say I remember any prolonged eye contact between the two since then.
I think you're right about the lack of eye contact. And yet, there's been at least one scene with Nick and Grissom together in every episode since Werewolves. At first they were alone and facing each other (Werewolves, DLG). Lately they've been joined by others and able to avoid eye contact. Given that there were just three Grissom scenes this week, it's saying something that one of them is with Nick.
All this discussion is certainly making me want to go back and look at all of the recent episodes again just to watch the background looks and the physical stances George and Billy are using. I hope it's intentional and that they're showing something is about to boil to the top between Grissom and Nick.
All this discussion is certainly making me want to go back and look at all of the recent episodes again just to watch the background looks and the physical stances George and Billy are using. I hope it's intentional and that they're showing something is about to boil to the top between Grissom and Nick.
wlk68
Pathologist
My concern is that any culminating scenes will come in the last eppy of season 6 and that it will be handled the way Sara's DUI was handled.
All the interesting stuff takes place in between seasons where she "took some time off" and it gets mentioned in the next season opener.
I can see tptb doing the same thing here.
Nick will show up in the Season 7 opener with his old hair style and "feeling much better".
All the interesting stuff takes place in between seasons where she "took some time off" and it gets mentioned in the next season opener.
I can see tptb doing the same thing here.
Nick will show up in the Season 7 opener with his old hair style and "feeling much better".
lemon_grass
CSI Level Two
But, don't forget, there was more to Sara's downward spiral than the DUI and taking time off work. Sara came back, talked to Grissom, and it seemed everything was fine. But then she blew in "Nesting Dolls", and there was the emotional confrontation of her real problem, and we watched her get over it in "Committed". If tptb were to treat Nick's storyline the same way, then we'd actually have some pretty juicy stuff to look forward to.
That said, I've kinda resigned myself to the thought that the "GD" thing is over and done with. So I'd be pleasantly surprised if we got any culminating scenes at all, even ones that are never brought up again afterwards.
Should we move on to "Pirates"..?
That said, I've kinda resigned myself to the thought that the "GD" thing is over and done with. So I'd be pleasantly surprised if we got any culminating scenes at all, even ones that are never brought up again afterwards.
Should we move on to "Pirates"..?
Pirates...
The lovely surprise here was that Nick was the man in charge -- at least in the first half of the episode. He was already on scene with Brass when Grissom turned up; he oversaw the autopsy; and he led the search team looking for the hand. This was a great parallel to the first Lady Heather epi in which the three investigators on that case were Grissom, Catherine and Nick.
I've heard in other forums that this episode, like Gum Drops, had scenes that were supposed to be Grissom's get reworked with Nick saying the lines instead. Thus we got a fairly Nick-concentrated episode. Nick took care of the case while Grissom concentrated on Lady Heather.
Another great surprise was someone finally commented on Nick's demeanor and referred to his Grissom-ness. YAY WARRICK!!!
And finally we got a classic Nick smile for the first time since at least Dog Eat Dog, maybe longer. Again, that was in the sequence with Warrick which shows some hope that if we're going to reconnect with the more carefree Nick it will be through Warrick.
Those are my first thoughts here in the weeeee hours of Sunday morning.
The lovely surprise here was that Nick was the man in charge -- at least in the first half of the episode. He was already on scene with Brass when Grissom turned up; he oversaw the autopsy; and he led the search team looking for the hand. This was a great parallel to the first Lady Heather epi in which the three investigators on that case were Grissom, Catherine and Nick.
I've heard in other forums that this episode, like Gum Drops, had scenes that were supposed to be Grissom's get reworked with Nick saying the lines instead. Thus we got a fairly Nick-concentrated episode. Nick took care of the case while Grissom concentrated on Lady Heather.
Another great surprise was someone finally commented on Nick's demeanor and referred to his Grissom-ness. YAY WARRICK!!!
And finally we got a classic Nick smile for the first time since at least Dog Eat Dog, maybe longer. Again, that was in the sequence with Warrick which shows some hope that if we're going to reconnect with the more carefree Nick it will be through Warrick.
Those are my first thoughts here in the weeeee hours of Sunday morning.
OK, Pirates of the Third Reich:
I was a tad disappointed in this episode after all the hype, but I guess that's normal. Truthfully, I found it a little scattered overall, but whatever. It still wasn't half bad. And as for Nick... well, nice start with the bandana! That's never a bad thing.
The eyeball scene: I was feeling that one along with our boy Nick, lemme tall ya. Grrrrrross! Great facial expressions there- nice work George. It's a nice step back into the humanity of these folks though; all too often they're no longer phased by all the sordid things they see and I think we sometimes forget that even though they're CSI's they're still supposed to be human. Nick's discomfort with the eyeball yuckiness showed there's still stuff that gets to him. I was sort of reminded of Catherine's face when the Doc pulled the snake out of that woman's throat in "Snakes".
I also liked seeing Nick working with both the coroners. I don't know- I guess it's just nice to see the comfort level they all feel around each other, even under such gruesome circumstances.
Man, I gotta say... Nick/George sure looks nice in the dark colours. The browns and blacks he wore in this episode were really doing it for me. I didn't even mind the hair in most of his scenes. Ahem... OK, I think that's all my shallowness finished now.
I liked seeing a bit of the old Nick when he was walking down the hall with Sara, and he asked her, "Where ya at right now?" It was cool when Nick grinned at her reply: "On the way to crazyville." Very cute, and a nice, unstressed and unhindered Nick moment.
Once again, he was walking sort of strangely when he and Warrick were heading up that desert path to meet with all the rookies/searchers. Maybe he really does have a pickle up his butt! :lol: Unlike others, I don't think this is some form of physical acting. I just think that sometimes he walks funny. Probably work-out strains or something. Whatever- it always makes me smile, and that's part of the pleasure for me.
Anyway, Nick quickly takes charge and tells everyone how to start the search, and all I could think was, "Woo. You can tell me what to do anytime, hot stuff!" :lol: OK, maybe the shallowness isn't quite done yet...
And on that note, I actually liked his hair when he and Warrick were at the house and they were in that sheltered area where the plants were. I know, I know- it goes against everything I usually say about the hair, but there it is. I said it out loud! :lol:
And now we have another insight into Nick, thanks to Warrick's comment about him not thinking Nick was a "delayed gratification" sort of guy and Nick said "I'm not." That's a good thing!
I have to disagree with everyone's opinion on "the package", unfortunately. I think the, erm... bulging effect was mostly due to the style of pant and the fact that they were pretty baggy on top of that. But whatever floats your boat, folks! His butt looked really cute throughout that scene, though. And we all know that, unless you get the J-Lo butt implants, you can't fake a nice butt! :lol:
Lastly, I'd also like to say that I loved the tinge of Texan in his voice when he called through the door, "Mr. Wolfowitz, come out now."
Wow, I'm noticing that most of my comments were more Nick-Syndrom related than useful character insights! :lol: I guess overall I should say that there weren't many new insights into Nick's package... I mean character!
:lol:
Anyone else want to contribute something more legitimate?
I was a tad disappointed in this episode after all the hype, but I guess that's normal. Truthfully, I found it a little scattered overall, but whatever. It still wasn't half bad. And as for Nick... well, nice start with the bandana! That's never a bad thing.
The eyeball scene: I was feeling that one along with our boy Nick, lemme tall ya. Grrrrrross!
Great facial expressions there- nice work George. It's a nice step back into the humanity of these folks though; all too often they're no longer phased by all the sordid things they see and I think we sometimes forget that even though they're CSI's they're still supposed to be human. Nick's discomfort with the eyeball yuckiness showed there's still stuff that gets to him. I was sort of reminded of Catherine's face when the Doc pulled the snake out of that woman's throat in "Snakes".I also liked seeing Nick working with both the coroners. I don't know- I guess it's just nice to see the comfort level they all feel around each other, even under such gruesome circumstances.
Man, I gotta say... Nick/George sure looks nice in the dark colours. The browns and blacks he wore in this episode were really doing it for me. I didn't even mind the hair in most of his scenes. Ahem... OK, I think that's all my shallowness finished now.
I liked seeing a bit of the old Nick when he was walking down the hall with Sara, and he asked her, "Where ya at right now?" It was cool when Nick grinned at her reply: "On the way to crazyville." Very cute, and a nice, unstressed and unhindered Nick moment.
Once again, he was walking sort of strangely when he and Warrick were heading up that desert path to meet with all the rookies/searchers. Maybe he really does have a pickle up his butt! :lol: Unlike others, I don't think this is some form of physical acting. I just think that sometimes he walks funny.
Probably work-out strains or something. Whatever- it always makes me smile, and that's part of the pleasure for me. Anyway, Nick quickly takes charge and tells everyone how to start the search, and all I could think was, "Woo. You can tell me what to do anytime, hot stuff!" :lol: OK, maybe the shallowness isn't quite done yet...
And on that note, I actually liked his hair when he and Warrick were at the house and they were in that sheltered area where the plants were. I know, I know- it goes against everything I usually say about the hair, but there it is. I said it out loud! :lol:
And now we have another insight into Nick, thanks to Warrick's comment about him not thinking Nick was a "delayed gratification" sort of guy and Nick said "I'm not." That's a good thing!
I have to disagree with everyone's opinion on "the package", unfortunately. I think the, erm... bulging effect was mostly due to the style of pant and the fact that they were pretty baggy on top of that. But whatever floats your boat, folks!
His butt looked really cute throughout that scene, though. And we all know that, unless you get the J-Lo butt implants, you can't fake a nice butt! :lol:Lastly, I'd also like to say that I loved the tinge of Texan in his voice when he called through the door, "Mr. Wolfowitz, come out now."
Wow, I'm noticing that most of my comments were more Nick-Syndrom related than useful character insights! :lol: I guess overall I should say that there weren't many new insights into Nick's package... I mean character!
:lol:
Anyone else want to contribute something more legitimate?
lemon_grass
CSI Level Two
Hee. I'd say there were plenty of insights into Nick's package. Not to mention the underoo slip. You don't see that every week. :lol: I never really saw the funny walk people have been talking about, though. But then again something else was very distracting in that scene.
Okay, character.
I never noticed this until someone commented on it: in that scene with Nick and Warrick walking down the hill, Nick's voice hitched a little as he said "torture chamber". At first I thought he was just out of breath, but Warrick gave him a skeptical look and asked "torture chamber?", so clearly he sensed something was up with his friend. I thought it was a little out of nowhere, because there was nothing really similar between what the girl and Nick each went through that would bring back the memories. I could only assume that it was meant to show Nick being more sympathetic to other people's suffering, which would go against his newfound Grissom-ness. I guess no matter how hard he tried to shut himself down emotionally, he couldn't help slipping up from time to time.
Speaking of which, what exactly did Warrick say about Nick being like Grissom? There was something other than "delayed gratification", wasn't there??
Okay, character.
I never noticed this until someone commented on it: in that scene with Nick and Warrick walking down the hill, Nick's voice hitched a little as he said "torture chamber". At first I thought he was just out of breath, but Warrick gave him a skeptical look and asked "torture chamber?", so clearly he sensed something was up with his friend. I thought it was a little out of nowhere, because there was nothing really similar between what the girl and Nick each went through that would bring back the memories. I could only assume that it was meant to show Nick being more sympathetic to other people's suffering, which would go against his newfound Grissom-ness. I guess no matter how hard he tried to shut himself down emotionally, he couldn't help slipping up from time to time.
Speaking of which, what exactly did Warrick say about Nick being like Grissom? There was something other than "delayed gratification", wasn't there??
I don't think Nick was comparing the exact circumstances of what he went through and what Zoe went through, but it was the idea...that both went through a nightmare not of their making and were held and tormented for the delight of someone else. And make no mistake, Nick WAS tormented. True it was his friends who were unintentional inflicting some of that torment (turning that light on) but it was still because of Walter Gordon and his twisted need for revenge. I think that was what Nick was getting at...both he and Zoe were pawns in someone's sick game. This unlike many of the crimes that they often investigate were the crimes - however horrible were committed by one person againinst another for more mudane motives.
I found myself kind of thinking "someone's imagnation is working overtime" during that "torture chamber" comment. I just felt it showed Nick is becoming a touch more paranoid and starting to assume the absolute worst about everything which is so unlike Nick (and in this case he was dead on right). It goes right along with the glances over his shoulder and the general timidness he is showing about processing scenes alone at night.Warick did give him a "everything all right with you, bro?" look right at that moment. I would have loved to see how Nick would have reacted to actually being down there,but once again Nick was wisely left out of anything having to do with being underground or buried....I don't remeber why Warick called Nick Grissom, but I think Nick said something about not getting ahead of the evidence or something analytical, cold and "Grissom-like" like that. I also thought that Nick kind of gave a derisive little chuckle at that one, seeing as after DLG he probably would rather be compared to anyone else on the face of the earth than Grissom....
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