The Nick Stokes Timeline: Part 2
- Thread starter Destiny
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First off, I loved reading everyone else thoughts on the episode.
I am one of those who really did like the episode. In part I think because I didn’t really have that many expectation going in. I generally try not to because I have found that I am not disappointed when things don’t go the way I thought they would or should.
I did like his remark upon seeing the crime scene “…when you run you usually take the car…” and for the rest of the scene we see that is relaxed…at least when you compare it to the most of the rest of the episode. We also see it a bit in the first scene with Archie. He is focused, but he is not hard or cold.
All that changes in a second when he sees Kelly Gordon’s name in the appointment book. I agree that he looks over his shoulder, but I don’t think he was scared – unnerved maybe – but not scared. He then goes and finds Kelly’s section on the tape and listens to part of the recording and then makes the call to the Parole Office to get Kelly’s information. I wonder if once he heard that she was leaving town that he made up his mind that she was guilty – because make mistake, in the scene where Nick interrogates Kelly he was fairly sure she was guilty. He got way ahead of the evidence (even if he turned out to right) and I am not sure why. I would have liked to have seen a bit more of that, but then I am not sure how they could have done that given that Nick is not talking to anyone, so that may be the reason then left it out.
It gets even worse when Nick learns of the tape/audio file. He was just ever so ticked with Archie, but I think that once he realized that hadn’t been Archie’s idea to keep him in the dark I think he calmed down just a bit. Archie didn’t even really need to apologize just the fact that he was willing to seemed to be enough for Nick. I am not saying the two are going best friends or anything, but I think right now his true anger and hurt is directed at Grissom.
I thought the talk with Grissom was wonderful – great acting form both GE and WP. There was so much going on under the surface on both sides. For one, Grissom didn’t even try to apologize, nor did look upset when Nick said he learned of the tape (Unlike Archie who did) He seemed to just watching Nick – as though trying to gauge his reaction and for once he wasn’t able to read Nick. I don’t know if that upset him, baffled him or both. I do think he was trying to reach out to Nick with the “But now she dead…” and then “So…it’s over” and did not what to do when Nick agreed. I think Grissom knows it far from over, that there is something going on with Nick, but he doesn’t have a clue as to what to do – how to reach out and help him.
The end was best. Nick’s reaction when he saw that Kelly was in fact guilty was telling. I think deep down he had hoped she wasn’t – that maybe she could be healed because if she could be healed then there was some hope for him. I loved his reaction to her death because I think in some ways it was a wish coming true in the worst possible way. I am not saying that Nick wanted Kelly dead, but I do think he wanted her…gone. He wanted all reminders of his ordeal gone and Kelly, even she didn’t have anything to do with the crime itself, was a reminder and a big one at that. She was the cause of his ordeal. (I disagree that it was about money – Kelly said the ransom was Silva’s idea, not the kidnapping.)
And I wonder if this episode, even if Nick’ story was the B-plot- was somewhat of a turning point for Nick’s recovery. I think this where we start to see the harder, colder more withdrawn Nick that we see in later episodes such as PoTR. We saw hints of it in the past, but it has been the most recent episodes that it has become much more notable. I think we will have to wait and see how this plays out in the upcoming episodes.
I am one of those who really did like the episode. In part I think because I didn’t really have that many expectation going in. I generally try not to because I have found that I am not disappointed when things don’t go the way I thought they would or should.
I did like his remark upon seeing the crime scene “…when you run you usually take the car…” and for the rest of the scene we see that is relaxed…at least when you compare it to the most of the rest of the episode. We also see it a bit in the first scene with Archie. He is focused, but he is not hard or cold.
All that changes in a second when he sees Kelly Gordon’s name in the appointment book. I agree that he looks over his shoulder, but I don’t think he was scared – unnerved maybe – but not scared. He then goes and finds Kelly’s section on the tape and listens to part of the recording and then makes the call to the Parole Office to get Kelly’s information. I wonder if once he heard that she was leaving town that he made up his mind that she was guilty – because make mistake, in the scene where Nick interrogates Kelly he was fairly sure she was guilty. He got way ahead of the evidence (even if he turned out to right) and I am not sure why. I would have liked to have seen a bit more of that, but then I am not sure how they could have done that given that Nick is not talking to anyone, so that may be the reason then left it out.
It gets even worse when Nick learns of the tape/audio file. He was just ever so ticked with Archie, but I think that once he realized that hadn’t been Archie’s idea to keep him in the dark I think he calmed down just a bit. Archie didn’t even really need to apologize just the fact that he was willing to seemed to be enough for Nick. I am not saying the two are going best friends or anything, but I think right now his true anger and hurt is directed at Grissom.
I thought the talk with Grissom was wonderful – great acting form both GE and WP. There was so much going on under the surface on both sides. For one, Grissom didn’t even try to apologize, nor did look upset when Nick said he learned of the tape (Unlike Archie who did) He seemed to just watching Nick – as though trying to gauge his reaction and for once he wasn’t able to read Nick. I don’t know if that upset him, baffled him or both. I do think he was trying to reach out to Nick with the “But now she dead…” and then “So…it’s over” and did not what to do when Nick agreed. I think Grissom knows it far from over, that there is something going on with Nick, but he doesn’t have a clue as to what to do – how to reach out and help him.
The end was best. Nick’s reaction when he saw that Kelly was in fact guilty was telling. I think deep down he had hoped she wasn’t – that maybe she could be healed because if she could be healed then there was some hope for him. I loved his reaction to her death because I think in some ways it was a wish coming true in the worst possible way. I am not saying that Nick wanted Kelly dead, but I do think he wanted her…gone. He wanted all reminders of his ordeal gone and Kelly, even she didn’t have anything to do with the crime itself, was a reminder and a big one at that. She was the cause of his ordeal. (I disagree that it was about money – Kelly said the ransom was Silva’s idea, not the kidnapping.)
And I wonder if this episode, even if Nick’ story was the B-plot- was somewhat of a turning point for Nick’s recovery. I think this where we start to see the harder, colder more withdrawn Nick that we see in later episodes such as PoTR. We saw hints of it in the past, but it has been the most recent episodes that it has become much more notable. I think we will have to wait and see how this plays out in the upcoming episodes.
G
Guest
Guest
I think you are so right. Grissom is so out of his depth.
A very insightful point. I had not considered this aspect, but it would make 'perfect' sense.
SparkyGirl
CSI Level One
I typed this once......now time for the short form...
Poor Archie was torn, caught in the middle. When Nick brought him that tape, I almost yelled at Nick. If I were Archie I would have smacked Grissom with the tape!
It's over. Not by a long shot in my book. Grissom needs to be intuned to his people more. He should have known that the person sitting before him was not the person he knew. I really wanted to bang their heads together a few times and tell them to quit being stupid. Nick was cold, unfeeling while talking to Grissom. The look in his eyes was...WOW!
Freeze you in place. Ding..ding...round 5.
Nick watching Kelly die. Whack me with a hammer and tell me not to act shocked. I couldn't get the look on Nick's face out of my mind. It was like there was nothing there, no emotion, nothing. How much more can Nick take before he goes postal or gonzo? A little closure would be nice, make me believe that TPTB have a clue!
Poor Archie was torn, caught in the middle. When Nick brought him that tape, I almost yelled at Nick. If I were Archie I would have smacked Grissom with the tape!
It's over. Not by a long shot in my book. Grissom needs to be intuned to his people more. He should have known that the person sitting before him was not the person he knew. I really wanted to bang their heads together a few times and tell them to quit being stupid. Nick was cold, unfeeling while talking to Grissom. The look in his eyes was...WOW!
Freeze you in place. Ding..ding...round 5.
Nick watching Kelly die. Whack me with a hammer and tell me not to act shocked. I couldn't get the look on Nick's face out of my mind. It was like there was nothing there, no emotion, nothing. How much more can Nick take before he goes postal or gonzo? A little closure would be nice, make me believe that TPTB have a clue!
G
Guest
Guest
Closure --noooooooooooooooooo.
It's all about delayed gratification. The more Nick angst the better. As all the comments about DLG have highlighted this is just getting interesting.
Yes, but will we get any more? Chances are tptb think that was good enough and we won't have either a) any sort of real resolution for Nick or; b) more indications that he's not alright.
They're probably happy with the "Well, he's just a changed man now. End of story."
They're probably happy with the "Well, he's just a changed man now. End of story."
lemon_grass
CSI Level Two
Whoa, excellent insights, you guys. (Btw, what's up with the way-too-large font in the reply box? Very annoying.)
I was expecting a lot going into the episode. We'd been talking about the spoilers for months and coming up with all kinds of angsty scenarios. That whole day I would think about the episode at random intervals, and get this funny jolt in my stomach. Sounds pathetic, I know. The last episode I looked forward to this much was "Grave Danger". Except that one delivered. After "DLG" all I felt was crushing dissapointment.
I was so ticked when they told us the woman was the mastermind behind everything, but we didn’t ever get to meet her. Tptb said in real life you don't always have closure, but if they have to be so darn "realistic" all the time, what do I watch tv for?
Anyway, enought ranting.
I wonder how much Grissom knew about Nick's case when he called him to the office. Did he know Nick had heard the tape? Because he didn't seem surprised at all. Or maybe he knew perfectly well he couldn't hide it from Nick forever, so he had been bracing himself for this moment ever since he logged it in.
Before I forget: Greg said something about it always being the utility guy. What was that? A shoutout to "Stalker", maybe?
I agree that Nick did get ahead of the evidence in the interrogation. He seemed so confident that Kelly was the perp, and dissapointed when the test for airbag dust came back negative. Maybe it was her skipping town that convinced him of her guilt. Maybe he was trying to amend the fact that Kelly had always had the upper hand during their previous encounters. Maybe despite telling himself “it doesn’t matter any more”, as an adamant believe in justice he does need someone to be held responsible one way or another, so he can have some kind of closure, and Kelly was the last living reminder of his abduction, so his subconscious made the decision to go after her. I interpreted his reaction when he found out Kelly really was guilty somewhat differently. I thought there was much gratification there, because finally he’s got someone before they can get away, like Walter Gordon and his accountant did. I agree that Nick wanted Kelly gone, but I don’t think he wanted her gone out of her own will. I think he wanted her to pay for what she did through the judicial system, which was his turf, not by getting her way and taking, in this situation, the easy way out, just like her dad did. Essentially Kelly slipped through their fingers, and became just another “fish” Nick will have to deal with for the rest of his life.
I was expecting a lot going into the episode. We'd been talking about the spoilers for months and coming up with all kinds of angsty scenarios. That whole day I would think about the episode at random intervals, and get this funny jolt in my stomach. Sounds pathetic, I know. The last episode I looked forward to this much was "Grave Danger". Except that one delivered. After "DLG" all I felt was crushing dissapointment.
I was so ticked when they told us the woman was the mastermind behind everything, but we didn’t ever get to meet her. Tptb said in real life you don't always have closure, but if they have to be so darn "realistic" all the time, what do I watch tv for? Anyway, enought ranting.
I wonder how much Grissom knew about Nick's case when he called him to the office. Did he know Nick had heard the tape? Because he didn't seem surprised at all. Or maybe he knew perfectly well he couldn't hide it from Nick forever, so he had been bracing himself for this moment ever since he logged it in.
Before I forget: Greg said something about it always being the utility guy. What was that? A shoutout to "Stalker", maybe?
I agree that Nick did get ahead of the evidence in the interrogation. He seemed so confident that Kelly was the perp, and dissapointed when the test for airbag dust came back negative. Maybe it was her skipping town that convinced him of her guilt. Maybe he was trying to amend the fact that Kelly had always had the upper hand during their previous encounters. Maybe despite telling himself “it doesn’t matter any more”, as an adamant believe in justice he does need someone to be held responsible one way or another, so he can have some kind of closure, and Kelly was the last living reminder of his abduction, so his subconscious made the decision to go after her. I interpreted his reaction when he found out Kelly really was guilty somewhat differently. I thought there was much gratification there, because finally he’s got someone before they can get away, like Walter Gordon and his accountant did. I agree that Nick wanted Kelly gone, but I don’t think he wanted her gone out of her own will. I think he wanted her to pay for what she did through the judicial system, which was his turf, not by getting her way and taking, in this situation, the easy way out, just like her dad did. Essentially Kelly slipped through their fingers, and became just another “fish” Nick will have to deal with for the rest of his life.
G
Guest
Guest
If it is a) I can understand how that might happen given TPTB history. However, with b),it's been acknowledged often that George is invested in Nick Stokes as a character and I have every confidence that George would prevent b)happening, whatever the script says.
^^^ Yeah, but after being fired, I also get the impression he'll do whatever's he's told from now on.
Don't get me wrong- I want to see more on this whole storyline, obviously. I just refuse to get my hopes up anymore. I really don't think the writers are writing for the fans, to be honest.
Don't get me wrong- I want to see more on this whole storyline, obviously. I just refuse to get my hopes up anymore. I really don't think the writers are writing for the fans, to be honest.
lemon_grass
CSI Level Two
^^^Except when it comes to GSR, it seems. They just can't leave that plot alone. *is bitter*
Sigh. It's smart to not get your hopes up for anything any more. I'll be content with just seeing him from now on.
I think that Grissom does know. But knowing that doesn't mean that Grissom has any idea what do to about it or how to help Nick - particular given that Nick as made it clear he doesn't want any help and has pretty much closed himself off.
Part of the peoblem is that Nick is still able to function as a CSI, so Grissom has no way of forcing Nick to talk and that is the only way that I think Nick will open up. That has nothing to do with Grissom and how he deals with people - which is Grissom weakest area. I tend to think that Nick would freeze Catherine out if she were to question him on it.
SparkyGirl
CSI Level One
Interesting point ABHarding. It is so cool to see the same thing from a different view. I wouldn't have thought that Nick would freeze as you put it, Catherine out. I can't see him going to Sara.
Sounds as if Nick is going to become a cold case file. We are getting just enough to have us drooling and shaking our heads about the changes in Nick. I will be very disappointed if we don't see any resolution for Nick. I can see a little here and there but to drop it cold? DLG just added one more thing for Nick to deal with and that was the death of Kelly.
I can only hope that we will see more of Nick dealing with the fallout. Are the TPTB going to drag it out, literaly or (gasp) drop it cold?
Sorry about the rambling...I get a tad hyper when talking about TPTB, Nick, George......
myfuturecsi
Corpse
^Join the club Sparky, after the firing fiasco, my faith in the TPTB went down to Nil. I don't know who was the one that did the firing..so here I have to paint them all with the same brush.
RANT: When I listen to the commentary on '4X4', I almost want to hurl when I hear one of them praising George's work and saying how much they 'love to work with him'. My reaction to that is, "Oh yeah right and that's why you fired him..spare me." Now those guys may not be the ones who fired George, but they are all guilty by association.
I know that sounds mean, but nobody has come out and actually said who did the firing. So like the guys in the "Usual Suspects"..they are all in the lineup.
RANT OVER..
I do hope that there is some continuation of the story line, but I am not going to get my hopes up like I did with this one.
RANT: When I listen to the commentary on '4X4', I almost want to hurl when I hear one of them praising George's work and saying how much they 'love to work with him'. My reaction to that is, "Oh yeah right and that's why you fired him..spare me." Now those guys may not be the ones who fired George, but they are all guilty by association.
I know that sounds mean, but nobody has come out and actually said who did the firing. So like the guys in the "Usual Suspects"..they are all in the lineup.
RANT OVER..
I do hope that there is some continuation of the story line, but I am not going to get my hopes up like I did with this one.
lemon_grass
CSI Level Two
From what I've heard, wasn't it the CBS head honcho, Les Moonves, who did the firing? The actual writers & producers might have been reluctant, but they didn't have the power to override Moonves's decision. But who knows.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Moonves. Yet ANOTHER reason why I think that guy is such a freakin'...
Nevermind. My mom always told me, "If you can't say something nice..."
:lol:
Nevermind. My mom always told me, "If you can't say something nice..."
:lol:
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