The Great Ship Debate - CSI:Crime Scene Investigation

[Adzix]

All I've heard you do is rant and attempt to make something true that obviously isn't.

ummm ... excuse me? i'm discussing a TV show, of course it's not real. the whole idea of personal storylines on CSI is that many times you can give them your own interpretation. i'm not attacking anybody and i'm okay with people having different opinions. i think i'm allowed to having my own and trying to explain my arguments. usually when people do not have anything to respond me with anymore, they say something like you just did.

IMO, for it to truly be canon, they shouldn't have to explain every little detail and aspect of the relationships. It should come naturally.

have you ever heard of a fantastic ship that nobody talked about? a good ship is the one that stirs discussions and makes people have an opinion on it. at least that's what i think.

Well i think thats wrong, why would it be unethical by who's standards?

it was just an example to show you that ethics is subjective. some people think boss/subordinate relationship was unethical under the circumstances G/S were in, some people think it's justified. some people think gays are fine, some people think gay relationships are unethical. and exactly what you said, it all depends by who's standards.

And Adzix, if I were watching other CBS shows, say, The Young and the Restless, I wouldn't have a problem with the activity, in fact I'd probably enjoy it

if you compare CSI to The Young and the Restless, you obviously haven't seen a single ep of the latter. and that's actually good for you.

but to be serious, maybe you are right that the 'penalty' arc was quite neglected by TPTB. or maybe we just haven't seen some of it (Grissom could get his pay cut, Sara had to babysit Ronnie on purpose), just like we don't see Grissom and Sara 'boinking' each other in every episode. *shrugs*

 

[Shytownmofo]

He also indicated that nothing would or could ever happen between the two of them.

this is your interpretation, not a fact. he said "i don't know what to do about this" which in my opinion is hardly the equivalent of implying that nothing could ever happen between them. on the contrary, to me it meant that he is confused and undecided but he acknowledged that there actually is *something* between them.

Butterflied came only 13 episodes later and we hear what were the hidden reasons behind his decision. of course nothing was said directly so you still don't have to believe the whole ep was about Sara, but about LH or Terri or whoever else. to me it would be kinda hard since there are hints to Sara in half of the scenes, but everybody is free to think what they want.

Once more, You miss the point. Yeah, Grissom felt the attraction to her, even then in the beginning. That I can't argue with. He also said that he didn't know what to do about it, meaning that he felt it would be WRONG for them to get together. What changed that. I understand he was realizing how deep his feelings were for Sara, but again, at the end of it, the monologue with the doctor who'd probably committed the murder, it seemed he knew better, or was definitely EXTREMELY conflicted about it.

Then came "Weeping Willows," where he got mad at Catherine for meeting and making out with Adam Novak at that bar, when by that time, he was probably already boinking Sara, or they were near that point?

Weeping Willows was before Grave Danger and so far most people assume it happened after that episode. but i can see your point. he was harsh on Catherine, maybe even too harsh and i think he realized that afterwards. she tried to explain to him the need for human connection but he dissmissed it. what if he later realized that Catherine was right? or isn't he allowed to change his opinion, especially after the events in Grave Danger?[/quote]

Well...I'd certainly like to see a CANON explination for that. Sort of like there was a Canon explaination for Warrick marrying Tina.

Nick and Greg, Danny and Flack, those are different.

how are they different? are you sure there is no fraternizing rule in the lab? what if i tell you that homosexual relationships are thought of by many people as unethical? fraternizing or sleeping with you boss is not illigal, but is against the internal rules of the CSI institution (Grissom and Sara were hardly penalized by Ecklie anyway). you won't go to jail for committing any of it so it all depends on your own ethical code which for every person is different. we can argue about it forever, but like Erica said, i've had this discussion about a billion times before so it's a bit pointless.[/quote]

You know what, if that's the reason for you being down on slash ships, cram it. The homophobic argument is way, way old. 'Cause Guess what, having a homosexual relationship isn't against the rules of the CSI Constitution. However, screwing your boss is. And that's the point I was trying to make. Nick isn't Greg's boss, Flack isn't Danny's boss, but Grissom IS Sara's Boss.

You're pulling every reason but the kitchen sink out for Grissom and Sara to be okay. I don't buy it. I agree that Ecklie didn't hardly penalize Sara and Grissom, but that's because he CHOSE not to. He could have very easily replaced Grissom as supervisor, and yes, Sara did end up moving to Swing.

I've said my piece about why I disliked the GSr. I'm not necessarily against it, it just seems so odd that Grissom was very much not willing to go there, then all of a sudden she walks out of his bathroom. Then, it seems like the focus of the show became that. Then, it's like, Okay, how are they going to keep Ecklie from finding out, how are they going to coexist, etc. It just became a detriment to the show, IMO. Then, no to mention the Arrogance of the GSr Shippers.

Anyways. You obviously are ignoring anything you don't want to hear, so....I don't see the point in arguing with you anymore. All you are doing is ranting and trying to cram it down our throats that GSr is somehow more acceptable just because it's canon.

 

[Kimbo08]

Anyways. You obviously are ignoring anything you don't want to hear, so....I don't see the point in arguing with you anymore. All you are doing is ranting and trying to cram it down our throats that GSr is somehow more acceptable just because it's canon.

I must agree. I've only posted twice, and I'm already done trying to get it through your head. You purposely move past all logic. We attempt to find a somewhat common ground, and you bring on the same thoughtless statements one after the other. Its as if you go to your previous posts, and complain about the same things, you just use different dialouge.

 

[Adzix]

I understand he was realizing how deep his feelings were for Sara, but again, at the end of it, the monologue with the doctor who'd probably committed the murder, it seemed he knew better, or was definitely EXTREMELY conflicted about it.

sure, i agree. this is one way you could interpret it, and it's very possible. i have a slightly different opinion, but i can see what you're trying to say.

Well...I'd certainly like to see a CANON explination for that. Sort of like there was a Canon explaination for Warrick marrying Tina.

yeah, but like you said this show is about crimes, not Young and the Restless. though David Rambo in a recent interview didn't dismiss the idea of telling us when did they start seeing each other, so i wouldn't be surprised if we got an answer to this question on the show soon.

You know what, if that's the reason for you being down on slash ships, cram it. The homophobic argument is way, way old.

And you are missing my point. it was just an example. i don't have anything against gays, personally.

You're pulling every reason but the kitchen sink out for Grissom and Sara to be okay. I don't buy it.

and guess what, you really don't have to. i don't try to make you love it. this thread is called 'Debate' for a reason, i'm only discussing one of the ships with you. i think it's fun, b/c i like listening to people having different opinions on certain things, and i like finding evidence or theories that would disprove them. i don't see why we can't coexist.

Anyways. You obviously are ignoring anything you don't want to hear, so....I don't see the point in arguing with you anymore. All you are doing is ranting and trying to cram it down our throats that GSr is somehow more acceptable just because it's canon.

I must agree. I've only posted twice, and I'm already done trying to get it through your head. You purposely move past all logic. We attempt to find a somewhat common ground, and you bring on the same thoughtless statements one after the other. Its as if you go to your previous posts, and complain about the same things, you just use different dialouge

*lmao* are you sure we're on the same thread? or are you just trolling?

 

[Kimbo08]

You're so funny. I don't take part in endless banter and I don't continue discussions with thoughtless, illogical people. So consider the discussion between you and I over. When you get some sense, let me know

 

[Adzix]

^ would you please stop offending me over and over again? i don't react if you do it once or twice cuz i hate arguing in such way, but this is getting out of hand.

i'd really think twice before calling somebody who tries to debate 'thoughtless, illogical, ranting, cramming down your throat, etc', while i repeat that i'm okay with people having a different opinion (you seem to have a problem with tolerating other POV's btw). please, i really don't want to argue in such way.

you say GSR fans are not always kind, but look what happened when most of you here are anti and i'm the only one who responds and is pro. now i can only imagine how you would react if a GSR supporter treated you the same way. maybe some of them did, but that doesn't justify doing the same to somebody else.

 

[Kimmychu]

Ya know, I have half a mind to close down the debate threads in Shipper Central because having shippers from various ships converging into one place is always bound to end up in some wank or another. *sigh*

This is a debate thread. Agreeing/disagreeing with another person's opinion will be a constant part of it, and a good debate is where all sides can agree or disagree while still respecting each other.

This ...

You're so funny. I don't take part in endless banter and I don't continue discussions with thoughtless, illogical people. So consider the discussion between you and I over. When you get some sense, let me know

... is not debating. This is trolling/bashing other members and is against the rules of the board! kimbo08, if you can't handle a debate without resorting to condenscension and insulting other members, this thread is not the place for you. That goes for everyone else too.

 

[candygirl1uk]

With all due respect, I think that people have gotten side tracked.

This thread is about a debate, there is more ships than what has been made cannon. There are femslash ships, and I think it would be nice to hear followers of that- what are your opinons?

How about the shippers in Miami? I dont really know much about that? How many ships are there in Miami? and NY?

My final word is that its important to believe in what you think and say, but its also important to be respectful of others feelings.

Please dont close this thread.

I can see all ships as being ok, like i've said many many times before- in that sorta field everyone is accessible!

 

[Adzix]

thank you for the reminder Kimmychu. i hope we can continue in a friendly atmosphere from now on.

With all due respect, I think that people have gotten side tracked.

This thread is about a debate, there is more ships than what has been made cannon. There are femslash ships, and I think it would be nice to hear followers of that- what are your opinons?

ITA. let's forget about the fights and pick up on other topics. about the femslash, well, i don't really ship any slash pairings, i'm just not interested in them. basically there are not many possibilities for canon femslash, since Sara, Cath and Sofia have been portrayed as hetero but they have some great fanfic potential.

How about the shippers in Miami? I dont really know much about that? How many ships are there in Miami? and NY?

hm, i think this thread is solely about LV, you know

 

[Kimbo08]

This ...

You're so funny. I don't take part in endless banter and I don't continue discussions with thoughtless, illogical people. So consider the discussion between you and I over. When you get some sense, let me know

... is not debating. This is trolling/bashing other members and is against the rules of the board! kimbo08, if you can't handle a debate without resorting to condenscension and insulting other members, this thread is not the place for you. That goes for everyone else too.

You know what, I had been debating. I was kind and didn't do a thing to them until, I was offended. So if you want to single me out, thats fine!:lol: She called me a troll BEFORE I even made the above comment. But whatever, Moderate as you see fit...

 

[Kazalene]

Moving on...

How about the shippers in Miami? I dont really know much about that? How many ships are there in Miami? and NY?

I don't know much about NY, but Miami has a decent number.

- Eric/Calleigh
- Calleigh/Horatio
- Calleigh/Ryan
- Calleigh/Jake
- Ryan/Natalia
- Eric/Natalia
- Ryan/Valera
- Horatio/Yelina
- Stetler/Yelina
- Horatio/Natalia
- Horatio/Stetler
- Calleigh/Natalia
- Ryan/Eric

I might have missed some.

Eric and Calleigh is my number one ship, but I don't really know how to 'debate' about it, exactly. Maybe we could do something where we have like a 'Topic Question' which gets changed every few days or so. I know this makes it more of a discussion than a debate, but everyone still has an opinion. *Shrugs*

So, for example: "The CSI Franchise has spawned a wide range of great ships across three different shows, what is it that led you to pick yours? A simple scene in one episode, or was it several seasons in before you saw the potential?"

Tis just a suggestion.

 

[love_fan]

Moving on...

How about the shippers in Miami? I dont really know much about that? How many ships are there in Miami? and NY?

I don't know much about NY, but Miami has a decent number.

- Eric/Calleigh
- Calleigh/Horatio
- Calleigh/Ryan
- Calleigh/Jake
- Ryan/Natalia
- Eric/Natalia
- Ryan/Valera
- Horatio/Yelina
- Stetler/Yelina
- Horatio/Natalia
- Horatio/Stetler
- Calleigh/Natalia
- Ryan/Eric

I might have missed some.

Eric and Calleigh is my number one ship, but I don't really know how to 'debate' about it, exactly. Maybe we could do something where we have like a 'Topic Question' which gets changed every few days or so. I know this makes it more of a discussion than a debate, but everyone still has an opinion. *Shrugs*

So, for example: "The CSI Franchise has spawned a wide range of great ships across three different shows, what is it that led you to pick yours? A simple scene in one episode, or was it several seasons in before you saw the potential?"

Tis just a suggestion.

Hm, an excellent question. I must admit when I start watching a new show (or for that matter any show actually) I start to look out for possible pairings. But it's not like I go and say, so that's CSI and I have to find two people with chemistry. No, it's just that I find out through the course of a show.

Anyway, why Nick and Greg, 'cause that's my ship, hm, I guess I was watching their interaction and at some point I was like - wow, they'd make a great couple. That's when I started to look for subtext and found plenty . I don't really know which episode it was but I think it was one of the earlier seasons where they had a lot of scenes together and shared a lot of physical contact. :lol:

I'm pretty good at detected potential ships. I knew that GSR (sorry to bring it up again ) would be a great ship (in the sense of a lot of followers that is!) and so would be YoBling. They're "obvious" and intended to be so. But just because they are doesn't make me ship them (although I rather liked Cath and Warrick!).

And yes, I must admit I go for slash pairings.

As for Miami, wow, I had no idea that there are that many ships! And just out of curiosity, aren't there more slash couples? I know about Eric/Ryan but aren't there any femslash ones??

Just found the Ship Debate for Miami, so my apologies if I misposted here !

 

[Kazalene]

As for Miami, wow, I had no idea that there are that many ships! And just out of curiosity, aren't there more slash couples? I know about Eric/Ryan but aren't there any femslash ones??

I missed out Speed/Calleigh and Speed/Eric. Probably more, . There's Calleigh/Natalia... but that's the only femslash one I know of. I don't go for slash pairings myself, unless they're cannon. (Are there any?)

With most shows I'll look out for chemistry, but with CSI I first focused on the science stuff. Like, I noticed flirty banter and subtext, but somehow (!) ignored it. Then a couple of seasons in my brain caught up and I began to acknowledge the EC pairing.

Once you have a ship everything has a subtext. I mean, even a piece of wood could become a metaphor for something if you thought about it.

 

[love_fan]

I know exactly what you mean! I started CSI because of the cases and Nick and Greg just started to make sense to me!

And :guffaw: about the wood example!

 

[Kazalene]

.

Anyway, to bring this back into focus, I was a fan of the Yo!Bling pairing, and liked Snickers. But then Nick would look hot with anyone...

Chemistry is always hard to ignore, but it's weird how everyone sees it in different places. Tis one of life's mysteries.

ETA: I was totally stupid for a moment.