The Great Ship Debate - CSI:Crime Scene Investigation

[ollieuan]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

eggbe4thechicken said:

I don't think Grissom is healthy for Sara.

Not trying irritate, lol, but I don't suppose you could elaborate could you?

Honestly, I'd love to. But, I have a genetics final in the morning and don't really have the time to draft up some long-winded post right now. But I'm pretty sure I elaborated on that very topic on page 1 of this thread (and for a few pages after). Here are some snippets.

Grissom/Sara
I'll admit I'm a bit biased as far as this couple is concerned. I don't like older men / younger women pairings in general. One thing I simply cannot stand is the young, naive girl chasing after an older, "wiser" man. It just screams "daddy issues" on so many levels as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't help that you see pairings like that everywhere. However, Sara seems to be very mature for her age so this isn't exactly as much of a problem in their case. The main problem I have with this ship is that Grissom simply does not respect Sara. He's had many occasions where he could at least acknowledge her worth, yet he has always chosen to shoot her down. She just has never been worth his time. He has never given her an acceptable explanation about anything, whether it be why he turned her down for a date, why he is assigning her to a specific case, or why he is turning her down for a promotion. His excuse: he's the boss. He doesn't have to. It wouldn't be professional or appropriate. Well, this is true. However, when you care about someone you make exceptions. Grissom has never put Sara first, and he never will. It's just not in his character. My mother and grandmother were both very strong-willed women, and they never took any crap from a man. If Sara allows Grissom into her life after years of unacceptable behavior, then she is weak. She's no better than one of those young, naive girls and I have no patience for her. In short, I'm against this pairing becuase I feel that it compromises Sara's character. And I'm not budging on that belief.

I do realize that recent eps would have us believe that Grissom is hEaD oVeR hEeLz for Sara, but a leopard can't change his spots. Plus, nothing he does now justifies how he treated her in the past. If she decides to overlook all of that then it completely undermines her dignity, not to mention feminism in general. Let's let the MAN treat me like dirt and decide when HE'S ready to commit~
And this is coming from a man, by the way. Just thought I'd clarify. I get a lot of U GO GRRRL! replies, and I'm all like, thanks? I don't really know whether I should be flattered or mortified. :lol:

Personally, I think Grissom is the opposite of a challenge. It just seems kind of the easy way out to me. When two people are too similar I just can't see the challenge in a relationship. I guess when I think about what they would do outside of work, I think of them just sitting around reading forensics journals. Not too exciting or challenging IMO. Plus, I feel their exact problem is that they've never really connected on a truly deep level. They've never been completely on the same page. That's just my view though.

Just more elaboration. I realize a lot of people may be like "'SCUSE U, BOI, WUT SHOW U BE WATCHIN?! GRISSUM MAY HAVE INDIRUCTLY IMPLYD THAT HE MYTE LUV HER OR AT LEAST THE SECKZ WITH HER LAST WEEK!" I just...don't care. I have neither seen nor heard anything that has changed my mind about this ship this season. It just seems to get more ludicrous with each week. Just how I see it! No one have a hissy.

 

[gsrLOVE]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Thanks for the clarification, 1CSIMfan. I didn't know for sure

Are there any Warrick/Nick fans out there? Tonight's ep. might have made some of them smile with glory!

 

[loki]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

ollieuan, I love your points, lol, seriously. I love how you put all people's arguments or whatever in annoying chatspeak, lol, it cracks me up. I'm staring to think Sara should date Cath, I'm getting sick of constant GSR, personally, and I've been thinking more and more how bad of a relationship they have. You just hit the nail on the head with all the things my gut was trying to tell my head, I just couldn't put it into words like that. Honestly, this season my respect for Sara has gone down, I used to look up to her but now it's like... I dunno. Something changed, and not for the good. I still love Jorja, but the character just doesn't do it for me anymore. Besides, two slash in one show isn't TOO unimaginable... is it? Lol... not in my dreams at least

 

[Clarrisani]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Warrick/Nick fan right here. It's been a while since those two had an episode that you could say worked for them. Can't wait for them to air it here.

 

[Desertwind]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Tonights ep. was fantastic with GSR, the watching the Godzlla movie on their bed, with their dog, like so many couples do everywhere, and he taking the dog out, and her finding the letter, her expressions, pricless. and her reading it, with his seductive voice..

I was touched and felt such love for them how beautiful, and romantic.. showing the strong substance and depth of their paring..although it was casual and quick, it shows the escalation of them being together! and him in blue jeans and that black T-shirt, and her with her hair pulled up.. their both so stunning to look at.. it made me so thrilled, and that the writers, are continuing with the continuity of this fabulous relationship.. making many fans extremly happy, I know I'm luving it!

and please NO belittling my views, opinions and ideas..thank you!

 

[SaraSidle_girl]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I am gonna state my oppinion on my perspective on things. I just hope I am not offending anyone

What is Sara thiking? For years, Grissom treated her like crap and once she finally dared to ask him out, he turned her down. She told him that by the time he figured out what he wanted, he really could be too late.
But she just sat around and waited for the Bugman to open his eyes and see her beauty? I mean, no offence.. But Sara is a strong woman and I admire her personality but this thing just doesn;t match with her at all. I never considered Sara to be the type who wait for someone for years.

I am definitly not a GSR shipper myself. Multiple reasons. One being the age difference but second most definitly the way Grissom treated her over the years. The chemistry is definitly there, its a little hard to deny that. But I don't think Sara should have waited.. She missed out on ao much, I believe.

I am just gonna hold on to my CSR (Catherine/Sara). I know its very unlikely but when you read between the lines, there is a lot more to be seen. So I am just gonna hope Catherine jumps in to the rescue.

 

[Waiting]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I really like some of the points that were mentioned regarding Sara, and why all of a sudden she is okay with Grissom wanting to give the relationship a chance.

What is Sara thiking? For years, Grissom treated her like crap and once she finally dared to ask him out, he turned her down. She told him that by the time he figured out what he wanted, he really could be too late.
But she just sat around and waited for the Bugman to open his eyes and see her beauty? I mean, no offence.. But Sara is a strong woman and I admire her personality but this thing just doesn;t match with her at all. I never considered Sara to be the type who wait for someone for years.

Great points, but I don't recall seeing Sara as STRONG when it comes to Grissom. I don't know...to me she always has followed him around like a lost puppy. And, each time she was shoed away...she'd leave heart broken and crushed, but always went back for that same let down. Heck...she even saw a shrink for her problems. Which to me dealt a lot with her wanting men that were unavailable to her emotionally. Which even in last nights episode...I see something lacking in their relationship. She had to read a letter from Grissom...to hear how he felt about her. That is why I think this relationship is unhealthy for Sara because I see it as her weakness. A weakness that she deems as love. But that is my take on it.

 

[Desertwind]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Sara is extremly STRONG..she doesn't take crap from anybody.. being in love doesn't make one weak and she knew he loved her, before the letter..PLEASE, for a long time.. I thing since 'Nesting Dolls' after Ickly Ecklie put her on suspension.. "I care" he said when he took her hand, after she poured her heart, and then I believe they took it to the next level, because in the last scene Ecklie said "what are you going to do about it" and he goes "I've taken care of it" oh, yes he did.. and he told her he'd miss her, and sent her a gift, and wrote her the love letter, which he's just more internal with his emotions, her more external, and "I'll see ya later" and "you make me happy, and now on the bed, thier both so much alike.. workaloholics.. loners, except with each other..and I realize many are in denial, about them.. but it's a done deal.. their in love and are with each other and are happy!! and again, of course disclaimers don't want to read this..because it confirms their history, but for those who'd like to read it again^^

THE EVIDENCE DOESN'T LIE

http://www.csiwiki.cbs.com/page/Grissom+and+Sara

 

[ollieuan]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

desertwind said:
Sara is extremly STRONG..she doesn't take crap from anybody.. being in love doesn't make one weak and she knew he loved her, before the letter..PLEASE, for a long time.. I thing since 'Nesting Dolls' after Ickly Ecklie put her on suspension.. "I care" he said when he took her hand, after she poured her heart, and then I believe they took it to the next level, because in the last scene Ecklie said "what are you going to do about it" and he goes "I've taken care of it" oh, yes he did.. and he told her he'd miss her, and sent her a gift, and wrote her the love letter, which he's just more internal with his emotions, her more external, and "I'll see ya later" and "you make me happy, and now on the bed, thier both so much alike.. workaloholics.. loners, except with each other..and I realize many are in denial, about them.. but it's a done deal.. their in love and are with each other and are happy!! and again, of course disclaimers don't want to read this..because it confirms their history, but for those who'd like to read it again^^

THE EVIDENCE DOESN'T LIE

http://www.csiwiki.cbs.com/page/Grissom+and+Sara

No one is in denial, windy. Denial would be saying they aren't in a relationship. No one is saying that. We just think it's unhealthy. And your evidence doesn't disprove that. I notice every moment you mentioned (besides Snakes) was from this season. Our whole complaint is that we don't feel like this season is realistic considering what we've seen from their history.

And thank you for the link...again. But it didn't impress me the first few times either. I'm still not convinced, and I probably never will be. That's the beauty of individualism. No two people think alike on every issue!

 

[Desertwind]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

YOU think it's un-healthy and that's your right. but it's them that count.. and they think it's fine.. would you like to have someone your with go "gawd, their together, and it's so un-healthy", no one can chose who or why somone is with that person, they want this, they want this.. they want this..it's their choice, not yours, nor mine nor any on elses.. it their choice, and the link, was not for fans who've already read it, but for those who haven't.. I feel sad that people can't see what I consider the most healthy relationship on TV!

 

[Waiting]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Sara is extremly STRONG..she doesn't take crap from anybody.. being in love doesn't make one weak and she knew he loved her, before the letter..PLEASE, for a long time.. I thing since 'Nesting Dolls' after Ickly Ecklie put her on suspension.. "I care" he said when he took her hand, after she poured her heart, and then I believe they took it to the next level, because in the last scene Ecklie said "what are you going to do about it" and he goes "I've taken care of it" oh, yes he did.. and he told her he'd miss her, and sent her a gift, and wrote her the love letter, which he's just more internal with his emotions, her more external, and "I'll see ya later" and "you make me happy, and now on the bed, thier both so much alike.. workaloholics.. loners, except with each other..and I realize many are in denial, about them.. but it's a done deal.. their in love and are with each other and are happy!! and again, of course disclaimers don't want to read this..because it confirms their history, but for those who'd like to read it again^^

I agree Sara is strong...but not when it comes to Grissom. I don't think one is weak when it comes to love. Sorry, but one usually walks away from rejection, and doesn't constantly bang their head on that same door just to get that same result. That is what I mean by weakness.

Now don't get me wrong, I DO think Grissom cares for Sara, but even from his OWN words from a LETTER...he wrote..."I don't know why I have such a HARD TIME expressing my feelings for you..." That sentence right there is proof that he doesn't come out and tell her how he feels about her like he should.

Not to mention...am I the only one that noticed Sara's reaction as she was reading the letter? To me she didn't seem over joyed by his confession, but a little held off. I stared at my tv thinking...why does she seem so...blah or uncertain with his confession of his love for her. I would have thought a sure smile would have graced her face...and I didn't see that. What in the world are these writers doing? GSR...seems much too complicated for me.

I did want to see a scene with GSR outside of work...and I liked it until she got snoopy and pulled a letter from a book...that had her Name on it...with an UNFINISHED address...that is another thing...he NEVER mailed it, and he NEVER gave it to her. For a couple that the writers are trying to say "have had a relationship for some time"...I feel lost and confused. What the heck...a declaration of "you make me happy," from Grissom....to an almost shrug of 'oh he does love me'...just turned me off. Where exactly do they stand with one another? The writers are making this way too complicated for a couple who supposedly know he each other so well. Just not buying it.

 

[ollieuan]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I see what you're saying, windy. I wouldn't want people talking down about my relationship, but you have to remember that these aren't real people. I really don't think we're going to hurt their feelings. :lol:

I'm reminded of Carter and Abby on ER. They danced around the pairing for so long, then it FINALLY happened. They seemed so happy and so in love, then BAM. They broke up. I really thought they would (and wanted them to) end the show together. But they realized that they had had these elevated ideals of one another, and they could never live up to them. Sara is similar. She has always had this ideal vision of what being with him would be like, and I'm hoping that she is finally realizing that this was never what she really wanted at all. I doubt it because I think TPTB suck too much to go that route, but it's possible.

 

[twins1729]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Well, on Buffy (wonderful example isn't it?) TPTB litterally said that when they hook someone up they rip them apart. Good angst = good television.

Sometimes I just wonder what this show will be like in 5 years (yes, it'll still be around ). Maybe only Gary, Eric, and George (for example) will still be there and several of the smaller characters. Saying that, I wonder if they'd ever actually do that. Try to get over the hump of characters by keeping the plot of the show (you know, the CRIME) by bringing in new ones. Who knows? You or me could have a new OTP! *gasps at the thought*

 

[SaraSidle_girl]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I see we have some strong GSR-lovers around here and some of us who really dpn't see what the hell Sara is doing with Grissom... Me being one of them.

I do believe Sara is a strong woman. Knowing wha she had to go through in her life and seeing how she made it this far, that deserves some admiration. Not every child with a mother who killed her father, had her mother put in a mental home and later in jail and went from foster home to foster home would have made it as far as Sara has

Second, I always wondered what happened to Grissom. There must be some reason why he is so unable to be more open.. and human. And some of you are right. Sara kept coming back to him, following him around. And like I said in some other topic, I think (hope) the cliffhanger in which she nearly dies (I refuse to accept she dies) will make her realise that and maybe we do get that ER thing.
I mean, do they really wanne make us go through another season full of GSR? To me it has already killed some of the shows chemistry. I am afraid one more season involving that relationship will kill even more.
And if they decide to do keep them together I think its time some other pairs have to be made too. But than CSI turns into a soap opera instead of a drama series!

Well, only time will hold the answer I guess And we just keep on dreaming all of our great shipper dreams

 

[kissmesweet]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Not to mention...am I the only one that noticed Sara's reaction as she was reading the letter? To me she didn't seem over joyed by his confession, but a little held off.

I noticed that too... She just seemed really... neutral. :lol:

There must be some reason why he is so unable to be more open.. and human. And some of you are right.

I know, I know that Sara is someone who can be quite needy sometimes... She needs attention, love and care--and to me, Grissom just can't give that to her.
Someone like Greg--who has loved her from season 1 and is constantly making her laugh and smile--can give that to her.
Or Nick even--who has always had great, open relationship with her and confides in her--can give that to her too.

She needs someone to really love her--and please her--make an effort--and tell her everyday that someone loves her. I don't feel Grissom can make her feel... complete.