The Great Ship Debate - CSI:Crime Scene Investigation

[gsrLOVE]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

twins1729 said:
Remember, I told you that I HATED it when people said "I have nothing against slash or gay people," because the more you say that, the more it convinces me that you do.

Wow, I'm sorry - but I don't have anything against gay relationships. I have a few friends are involved in same-sex relationships, and it's no big deal. I just DON'T see it on CSI, and I don't see any real ship "chemistry" between Nick and Greg. That does not mean that I am anti-gay, people can do as they please - it's their life, their body.

Same goes for Catherine and Warrick. Loki told me she's heard, "I have nothing against an interacial relationship."

That makes me think that both statements are more BS than I thought originally.

BS? Because people don't have anything against interacial relationships? I for one, have been in one - and I still would not like those two get together, particularily because I ship CatNip.

I can't see a straight woman gush on how beautiful another woman is, and want said woman to be held by a man or be made love to.

I am straight, 100% straight - and I think Marg/Catherine is absolutely friggen GORGEOUS.. Drop dead gorgeous, same with Jorja/Sara.. Would I like to seem them mual each other in the lab and start making out? Absolutely not. They are two beautiful CSIs (Sara and Catherine) and they deserve a man, IMO.

It's not the biggest slash ship ever, but it's the most justifiable.

Perhaps, in your opinion - yes. In my opinion, there is nothing justifiable about that ship. To each is own, I guess.

 

[SaraSidle_girl]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I just fell into this and read some of the posts.. since I am a slash shipper myself ((femslash) I like this whole debate thing.
You know, I never looked at Nick and Greg as a possible couple but the more I read about it here, the more sense it makes to me. I mean, they have some sort of thing going on.

I myself am into the Catherine/Sara ship. I know its not the most likely ship but still, its the one that holds the most meaning and most adventure for me.

I doubt that on a show like CSI a gay relationship will ever occure. It would be cool but I don't know if it fits in with the show. But since they gave us GSR they might as well give us slash..
People like or dislike GSR for many reasons. I have plenty of reasons not to like it myself

I will keep following this. Its interesting.

 

[twins1729]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

gsrLOVE said:

twins1729 said:
Remember, I told you that I HATED it when people said "I have nothing against slash or gay people," because the more you say that, the more it convinces me that you do.

Wow, I'm sorry - but I don't have anything against gay relationships. I have a few friends are involved in same-sex relationships, and it's no big deal. I just DON'T see it on CSI, and I don't see any real ship "chemistry" between Nick and Greg. That does not mean that I am anti-gay, people can do as they please - it's their life, their body.

Same goes for Catherine and Warrick. Loki told me she's heard, "I have nothing against an interacial relationship."

That makes me think that both statements are more BS than I thought originally.

BS? Because people don't have anything against interacial relationships? I for one, have been in one - and I still would not like those two get together, particularily because I ship CatNip.

I can't see a straight woman gush on how beautiful another woman is, and want said woman to be held by a man or be made love to.

I am straight, 100% straight - and I think Marg/Catherine is absolutely friggen GORGEOUS.. Drop dead gorgeous, same with Jorja/Sara.. Would I like to seem them mual each other in the lab and start making out? Absolutely not. They are two beautiful CSIs (Sara and Catherine) and they deserve a man, IMO.

It's not the biggest slash ship ever, but it's the most justifiable.

Perhaps, in your opinion - yes. In my opinion, there is nothing justifiable about that ship. To each is own, I guess.

Someone else who thinks I'm talking directly to them.

Don't get flattered.

I don't like girls.

I think men smell, look, act, dress, etc. better.

*JOKING*

 

[gsrLOVE]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I didn't say, or think you were directly talking about me. I saw your post, your points - and I wanted to state my opinion about them.

 

[twins1729]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Okay, then. But I also think you took some of my opinions to heart and directed them towards yourself. Whom I wasn't directing them too.

 

[forensicsgirl]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I'm just anti-woman, I guess.

This is officially the most depressing comment I've read here thus far.

I hold my hands up and say I don't get this whole ship debating thing. I mean, the whole thing's so completely subjective. Yes, a show can script a relationship, but that doesn't mean that a) everyone will like it or b) others won't see alternative pairings that float their boat. We could go on and on and on (and on... yawn) about evidence, and why we like what we like and all that, and why we hate pairings, and really, does it make a difference? *shrugs*

I mean, if you enjoy debating, by all means, knock yourself out (not literally - I don't want a law suit). But really, like 1CSIMfan asked, can't we do it without bashing each other?

 

[twins1729]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Please stop taking me seriously!!!!!!

I need a sarcasm button or something. lol

Hey, I've been charged for cyber murder. Prosecuted, where I've pleaded "No Contest." I'm still on probation.

LMAO

See...funny.

*Huggs*

I kick ass I use two g's.

It's starting to make me anxious coming here. Why don't some of you NY and M fans start chatting so we can dramatically change the subject. No wait...they can't. Talk about GSR again. And how Grissom isn't man enough for her. (I'm a GSR fan, JTLYK)

 

[gsrLOVE]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

You just started talking about GSR again. As far as I am concerned, we were just debating Slash?

We can't tell your emotion through typing. Honestly. When you say LMAO or LOL constantly doesn't change how we may take what you say.

If you're not going to be serious, why bother posting in here? Debating is a somewhat serious discussion, and when you say you're just joking, or trying to be funny about it all - we (Or I, rather) don't know whether to try and respond or laugh at the fact that you can't make a serious discussion.

I'm not trying to bash you at all - honestly. I was having a bit of fun talking about The Love. It's nice to see everyone's opinion on each ship - but you can't just tell us "You need to understand sarcasim" we can - perhaps just not when it's over the internet. Or when you're joking about a ship - maybe one that someone particularily really likes - they aren't exactly going to see it as "haha" they're likely going to see it as "Well, I better state my stand on the subject"...

Anyone who wants to talk about Miami or NY ships can go right ahead, it's a SHIP debate - and we've all just ended up talking about LV. Anyone can jump in and say "Horatio and Yelina belong toghether" (I don't even watch Miami - but I totally ship those two!!!)

 

[loki]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

*remembers what Waiting said about this thread moving fast*

I need to get up earlier...

Ok, I like what Forensicsgirl said about slash shippers, and it totally makes sense, lol, but I don't think I fall into either of those categories because I never ship slash, I'm a het girl, but after watching Nick and Greg's interaction with each other and following the clues, I started shipping them together. No second thoughts about it or anything, the word 'gay' actually didn't enter my mind for a while, until I told my mom about it and she said there's no way Greg can be gay. It just astounds me that someone would see something wrong with it, just like when I heard the interracial crap about Yobling, I didn't even SEE the interracial there, it just seemed normal. I like how the people here aren't arguing that the boys aren't gay, but actually coming up with logical reasons to argue the ship, because most people I discuss it with get into this 'they're just not gay' thing. I love this place *hugs everyone on board*

Ok, I'm done with that little rant. Sarasidle_girl (formally known as tuffel, lol, I knew I recognized that banner) mentioned Cath/Sara and that's another ship I've actually noticed on screen. I wouldn't necessarily want to see them get together, but it makes total sense why they would. They're opposites, each girl has good qualities, but totally different ones, I think they would be good for each other. Even though they butt heads a lot, I think they understand each other very well, and each fight they get in just seems to bring them closer.

 

[twins1729]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Loki! What happened to you last night!

Okay, gsrLOVE...I was, uh, changing the subject.

I understand that people can't see what I'm truely trying to say. Either I'm joking or being serious. I promise with most of my points are legit and completely and utterly my personal serious opinion. If I said anything to harshly or way out of my character I was kidding. Maybe I think that most of you know me like Loki does or something.

At the end of the day they are fictional characters and we (all of us) can do whatever the hell we want with them. No one's feelings are going to get hurt.

Oh, and this post's title is CSI: Crime Scene Investiation. So I assumed we couldn't talk about M and NY.

 

[Waiting]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I know some of you were wanting to see some catnip moments...well I found my favorite cath/nick fan video...if any of you want to see it...I will pm you the link! Just let me know.

 

[Clarrisani]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Thanks for the link, Waiting. I'll check it out as soon as I get home. I rewatched The Hunger Artist, and while I did pay particular attention to the "arse check" scene where Nick checks out Greg, I also spotted the scene where it indeed does look like Catherine is sitting in Nick's lap. Never noticed that before...

forensicsgirl , while I agree with you about the categories, you forgot option number 3: straight men or women who, as much as they enjoy seeing hot men (or women) gettting it on, they also supporters of the gay community who wish there was more representation.

I'm in catergory #3. I hate the fact we live in a world where so many people still fear/hesitate over gay or lesbian relationships. The whole 'gay union' thing going on in Australia has come to make me realise just how conservative people are. As for tv, there are so few programs that actually feature homosexual characters in a non stereotypical fashion.

Nick and Greg, in my eyes, are bisexual. They enjoy the company of the other sex, but try to hide their interest in the opposite sex due to the prejudices of law enforcement. Nick, being Texan, would be more aware of the things that happen to gay men in law, such as police officers being slow to a call out because they know the other man is gay and don't like it.

I'm not so sure about California, but I'm sure that Greg would have come across this sort of thing as well. Given what we know about his family, particularly his Papa and Nana Olaf Hojem, they would be open to his relationship, although his overprotective mother may not be. I'm sure that during high school or college Greg would have seen some form of discrimination against gay's that would have caused him to hide this side of him - although, not to the point he doesn't openly flirt with male characters. Greg has been seen to flirt with Nick and Grissom on occasion, and a couple of others.

In terms of Nick and Greg, I'm sure Greg would be weary of Nick as Nick is Texan, and Nick would hide it from everyone because he's grown up with the views, values and beliefs of Texans. Add in the fact that Nick was sexually abused by a woman in his youth, and you've got a man who hides and represses a lot of things.

At the same time, Nick is open emotionally. We've seen him cry, and he's not afraid to show anger. And since Grave Danger, I've noted his become even more emotionally unstable. And since going out into the field, Greg has become more repressed. These boys have issues.

Season 2 is actually the best season of them all for Nick/Greg. It was before Nick's Stalker incident, before Greg being blown up, back when they were both more open and funloving. Over time they have slowly pulled themselves further and further inward - the flirtation is still there, but we don't see it as often. Especially now since TPTB are deliberately limiting their screen time together.

In all honesty, as much as I do want to see Nick and Greg hook up on CSI and 'come out', I fear the way that TPTB would handle it. They have denied revealing that any of the characters are gay (note Bobby Dawson), and given that it would appear TPTB fear controversy, they would most likely use a gay relationship to destroy either Nick or Greg. Both even.

Gay's are represented so poorly in the media, save for the occasion exception such as QAF, that unless TPTB seek advice from the right places about the correct representation, I hope that The Love remains purely fanon. I just don't trust CBS.

At the same time, I do want to see more of The Love on screen. More little moments, secret smiles, knowing looks and definitely more arse checks. Just little things that the fans of The Love can get excited about without turning everyone else against the show. The world is just too conservative to handle anything else. I wish it wasn't, but the sad fact of life is that it is, and I hate it.

 

[kinkapoodles]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

This is the Vegas debate thread. That's why there's not been any talk about New York or Miami. They have their own debate threads.

Okay, then. But I also think you took some of my opinions to heart and directed them towards yourself. Whom I wasn't directing them too.

As did I. If you're joking about things, please try to use the appropriate emoticons or just read my previous post.

Guys, keep in mind that this is a TV show and these characters aren't real. This is all for fun.

 

[CathStokes]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Aww Fogs you spoiled my plans to knock ppl out :lol: {{See, I have a freaking sense of humor}}

I think the NY debate thread would be SO much better, because we get along better.

 

[MissDee]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I'd have no problem supporting The Love as being a canon ship both in support of the gay community and because of the hottness... if I could see proof of it. To use the current terminology, I've seen Type-A scenes that could be interpreted that way, but I've never seen Type-B scenes (maybe I just missed them; I haven't seen every single episode, so enlighten me if I'm mistaken).

And in real life, I could readily accept discovering that two men in my office, who had made hetero comments and acted hetero in the past, were actually bi and had been dating for a while. That stuff happens, sure. But CSI is a story, and the elements of that story have to be crafted... right from the beginning. The elements of GSR were right there from the start. If they'd only started in Season 6, then there's absolutely no way in hell you'd be able to convince me that the writers had planned it from the beginning.

That's where I'm coming from with The Love. But, as I've said, if the writers ever chose to go in that direction and Nick and Greg are established as canonically bi in some future episode... if it's written well, I won't have a problem with it. But you'd have to do a pretty spot of arguing to convince me that the writers had that planned from the beginning.

And, if I may... can I just say that I've really enjoyed the interaction here in the past week? I feel as though everyone's trying hard to make themselves understood, and to understand others, and trying not to tick anyone off or allow one's own prejudices get in the way. And I'm learning a lot about what makes people ship and why they prefer the ones that they do. Considering that shipping is such an emotional thing, and that we're all mixing here from different camps, so to speak... I think that's awesome. I think we're awesome. I hope that we can continue this kind of absorbing dialogue.