The Great Ship Debate - CSI:Crime Scene Investigation

[kinkapoodles]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

^^It's time to stop with this. I've seen enough bickering tonight. twins1729, do NOT tell people what they have to see and think about ships. Do not tell them they are wrong. This is a debate thread, debate it without bashing people please. Just because one person sees something, doesn't mean another person does.

if you're super pissed, get a sense of humor

That was a little uncalled for.

 

[Waiting]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Well actually I just get heated then get over it. Its my life. No issues with me, and this weekend I actually plan to look further into the episodes for Nick and Greg....any suggestions? I just want to get a glipse.

I agree too that Catherine LIKED Warrick! I haven't seen any indication that she still likes him now. I mean season 6 after fantasizing confession and season 7 have been down hill with anything regarding yobling...in my opinion anyhow. I have seen a lot more of catnip in place of it.

 

[loki]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

^^ ooo, ok, ok. You should look at the scene in The Hunger Artist. Annnnnd... umm... I-15 Murders?

Lol, Clarissani, Twins, someone help me out, I'm drawing a total blank :lol:

 

[Hestia]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

LadyDisdain said:

Finally, I would like to reiterate that I think shipping is a wonderful and integral part of being a fan of show. I think all of the ships on this show are great fun. But since so many ships are wholly fantastic and, given this show's reticence to involve its characters with one another romantically, likely to remain so, why can't we just love the ships for what they are? I never let canon stand in the way of my favorite ships *(Henry be damned! Daniel and Betty are so meant for each other on Ugly Betty!). My imagination is strong enough to accomodate the canon for my beloved, non-canonical ships. I'm sure all of our imaginations are powerful enough to accept one another's ships and to coexist peacefully in happy, shippy land.

*Some text made bold for my convenience.

It's funny because in other versions of Ugly Betty the boss always gets together with the assistant and I'm so dreading it's gonna happen in this version that I think the opposite: "Daniel be damned... (well, maybe not damned. ) Henry and Betty are too cute to be sacrificed for other countries' canon!"
(I might have to PM you, LadyDisdain. Since you lurk, we'll have our own little debate. )

Wait... this is CSI. Nevermind. :lol:

I'll say I agree with your last line and some of the posts here. Also, I'm glad I'm a multishipper (to an extent) and even more glad many of you see the canon in Greg liking Sara. (What? Right... multi-shipper. With a leaning towards making Greg happy. Did I fail to mention that? )

 

[Adzix]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

By the way, Adzix, I'm copying down your Type A/Type B summary for future reference. I will give you full credit.

oh sure, no problem Clarrisani i'm glad you find it useful.

 

[Clarrisani]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Nick/Greg... hmm... Felonious Monk, Slaves of Las Vegas, Hunger Artist, Rashomama... pretty much all of season 2... well. There is a lot. I suggest heading over to CSI:Wiki and jumping on The Love page. The Episode Guide isn't complete yet, but the 'Obvious Chemistry' has some of the key moments listed. Hope that helps, Waiting . I'm actually planning of looking for the CatNip this weekend. Any points of interest I should look out for?

 

[MissDee]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Secret confession: I'm a BrassCat lover. There isn't a shred of evidence for it in the "Scene B"-type way that Adzix mentioned (and BTW, that was an awesome breakdown, girl, and LadyD please continue to delurk after such a badass post), but nevertheless, I think the two would be adorable together. I think I just like the idea of sassy badass Cath falling for such a stolid, dependable guy like Jim. And I think Jim would take one look at her and think "Holy crap, how'd I just get the hottest dame in the room?" He'd even get a second chance at being a good father with Lindsey. It's a match made in heaven, I tell you!

And as for the whole Daniel/Betty/Henry imbroglio... it's an excellent argument for making polyamorous relationships legal in this country. And that's all I have to say about that. (Except this: Christopher Gorham? MMMMMMMMMM. *melts into pile of goo*)

 

[twins1729]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

1CSIMfan said:
^^It's time to stop with this. I've seen enough bickering tonight. twins1729, do NOT tell people what they have to see and think about ships. Do not tell them they are wrong. This is a debate thread, debate it without bashing people please. Just because one person sees something, doesn't mean another person does.

if you're super pissed, get a sense of humor

That was a little uncalled for.

Still, in all seriousness. I was still kidding.

I don't mean ANYTHING by saying things like that. lol

I'm sorry, but I'm actually finding this kind of funny.

I must sound like total BITCH and that's really not what I'm doing.

***

Ummm....the Love....mmmm. Well, like Clarrisani said, jump to our page on the WIKI.

I memorized the link. lmao

THe Love (Greg/Nick)

Some of the BEST Nick/Greg episodes are:

Chasing The Bus
Dead Ringer
Rashomama
Fallen Idols
Post Mortem
Meet Market

Some more cute scenes are, well here are the episodes:

Stalker
Anatomy Of A Lye
Viva Las Vegas
Pilot
And Then There Were None
Slaves Of Las Vegas
Redrum
Precious Metal
A Night At The Movies
High And Low
Caged
Cats In The Cradle...
Crash And Burn
After The Show
What's Eating Gilbert Grissom?
Up In Smoke
Poppin Tags

I'm sure there's more, but I'm done for now.

Well, I DO see CatNip more than Snickers. To make anyone feel better. I actually see Sandle. Um, if Louise is leaving the show...there really is not reason to pair her with anyone. That's like Catherine/Keppler. That could've worked if he wasn't shot. Okay, I'm rabbling again.

 

[ollieuan]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

[ultra late on this response...i was actually having a life for a change...whodathunkit, right? i even went OUTSIDE! it really IS nice! i might have to try it more often.]

Anyway, I think someone may have mentioned earlier that if I reallyliked Sara I would want her to be happy and, thus, like GSR. Or I could be making that up. :lol: Either way I have a valid point!

I know this girl who has 2 kids with a...man (term used loosely). He's been in prison twice. He beats her. But she LUUUUUUUUUUUUUVS HIIIIIIIM~!!! He makes her happy (?!?!?!?) Does that mean I think he's good for her? NO! He obviously is NOT! Sure, she may be happy for now, but he hasn't always made her happy, and he certainly won't in the future. I want what is BEST for her. And I think that is what matters. It's called tough love.

Is GSR as serious as that? No. But it's the same thought process. I don't think Grissom is healthy for Sara. Period. It doesn't mean that I hate Sara and I don't want her to be happy. I want what is best for her, and I truly believe that what is best for her does NOT include Grissom.

So, at least from my perspective, I am (was?) actually MORE of a Sara fan than one who blindly accept what TPTB think is best for her. I have my own opinion. "Eh, well, she seems happy now" just doesn't cut it for me. Is my opinion right? No. Is anyone else's? No. It's all subjective.

And NO Sara does NOT necessarily know what is best for her. I know I haven't always known what's best for me. I still don't, sometimes, and I'm a grown man! Life is one giant learning experience.

 

[eggbe4thechicken]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I don't think Grissom is healthy for Sara.

Not trying irritate, lol, but I don't suppose you could elaborate could you?

 

[Waiting]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I'm actually planning of looking for the CatNip this weekend. Any points of interest I should look out for?

I'd love to tell you what shows to look for.

If you have Redrum taped...watch that one again!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Crow's Feet-the whole darn episode.
Boom
Overload-nick opens up to cath about what happened to him as a child.
Revenge is Best Served Cold
Snakes

I can come up with more...but here are a few to begin with.

 

[forensicsgirl]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I've been sitting back, following the debate/discussion on the Love for a bit, and I decided to finally weigh in with my two cents.

The common question from people who don't ship slash, when faced with the Love (or any other slash ship, really) is "Why do you think they're gay?" I'm not too fond of that question, but I admit it's better than "nooooo! they're to [sic] hot to be gay!" or "how dare you suggest that X character is gay, you bi-atch!!!"

To understand a slash ship, you have to understand the reasons for shipping slash in the first place. From what I've seen (and I'm probably over-simplifying things, but bear with me...) there are (mostly) two categories of slash shipper. A huge population are straight women, who enjoy the fantasy of two hot guys together (or, sometimes, two hot girls) Then there's the category which I fall into, which is a member of the gay/bi community, hungry for representation in popular culture. There are probably people who fall outside those two groups, but these are the ones which I've personally encountered.

Even with shows such as The L Word, Queer As Folk, etc on our screens, there is still a lack of gay representation on TV. Throughout history, the gay community have used their imagination to find representation on the screen - a het couple becomes a gay couple in our minds because otherwise, there would have been NO representation. We were more or less invisible until the 1970s/80s, and even then it was patchy, at best. So we've been conditioned to look for representation that might otherwise be hidden within otherwise heterosexual popular culture.

So, what's a gay boy/girl to do? Well, we find a couple of men or women who look good together, have chemistry, have a relationship that might be open to interpretation, and presto, we have ourselves a slash ship. Nick and Greg are a prefect example because they have some great scenes together, they look fantastic together, and they can't seem to stop touching each other (thank you, god )

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that all Love shippers think Nick and Greg are gay. Personally, I'm of the opinion that they're both bisexual (hey, it's not far-fetched - says the bi-girl) Others think that Greg is bi and Nick is gay (possibly a closeted gay man) - there really are any number of scenarios that might work beneth what we've been given in canon.

Either way, slash isn't everyone's cup of tea, and if it doesn't float your boat, fair enough. But a lot of us love the chemistry we see between these characters. And if ever a mainstream show was going to go with a canon gay relationship, I'd be thrilled if it was this pairing, because I haven't had a canon same-sex ship (excluding the L Word, of course) since Tara was killed off in season 6 of Buffy *weeps*

 

[sarahvma]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I think the main issue is that on a regular show, being gay can't ever be treated as just being "normal". That said, even though I was a big Willow/Oz fan, I really respect the way that they did it. It wasn't that Willow suddenly started breaking out her "comfortable shoes", she fell in love with a woman, and realized she was gay/bi.

But in most cases, the only time being gay doesn't turn into a lifetime special or a punchline is in shows all about being gay. And they're great shows, but that's sort of sad that they have to feel that to show a realistic, sweet and normal gay relationship, it needs to be on "The Gay Show".

Eric and George have adorable chemistry. I think what people who fall into the latter community, as Fogi was saying (FWIW, I'm in the first group. lol.) it would be nice to just see two guys get together without needing this big IDENTITY CRISIS or, like I said, lifetime movie special. But you can't really do that. I mean, we're scandalized over two consenting heterosexual adults in a relationship where they have yet to so much as hug.

But I mean, ultimately, any shipper is in it for fun, hopefully.

 

[forensicsgirl]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

it would be nice to just see two guys get together without needing this big IDENTITY CRISIS or, like I said, lifetime movie special. But you can't really do that.

You can, but a) Networks are too chicken to do so and b) the far right would FREAK out. I mean, being gay can NOT be shown as normal, damnit! Because if it's normal, then ANYONE could be gay, and that's just scary :lol: (side note: I hate the term "normal". I mean, what the heck is normal? According to who? *sigh* )

But you're right, it's all about fun. Both shipping specifically and fandom in general. I mean, it's not a serious business, is it? Or at least it shouldn't be. It's our little crazy corner of fun to help the rest of our serious lives seem a little less *insert the appropriate adjective for you here*

 

[twins1729]

Re: The Great Ship Debate

CSI is the biggest show on TV (sh....there's not Grey's fans here, so I can say what I want, lol).

I think that having a "normal" gay relationship on the show would do wonders for...everything in gay society.

When I say normal, I mean...normal. They don't need to be a Brian Kinney or an actavist. They can just be two men who happened to fall in love. Having small-ass scenes like GSR and not getting into complete detail. Even just admitting they were an item and not changing anything would be nice.

Saying that, having GSR - some people just HATE the age difference. They cannot stand for it.

Catherine and Warrick, *gasp* an interacial couple. What's Alabama to do!

Then, if Nick and Greg dated. A gay, that's crazy!!

Remember, I told you that I HATED it when people said "I have nothing against slash or gay people," because the more you say that, the more it convinces me that you do.

Same goes for Catherine and Warrick. Loki told me she's heard, "I have nothing against an interacial relationship."

That makes me think that both statements are more BS than I thought originally.

I'd say I'm in it because I think it's hot. Having been a veteran fan of Queer as Folk. I really don't understand how a woman can like het. (Which I find funny, and I'm mostly joking). I can't see a straight woman gush on how beautiful another woman is, and want said woman to be held by a man or be made love to.

Now, I'm straight, so this gets confusing. Because I myself would be liked to held one day by a man, lmao, but I'm just anti-woman, I guess. That's another post.

Here's an interesting article about slash from afterelton.com. I'm high-lighting the first paragraph and bolding what it says about Nick and Greg.

"On The X-Files, Fox Mulder and Alex Krycek are bitter enemies. On CSI , Nick Stokes and Greg Sanders are murder-solving forensic experts. On Angel, Angel and Spike fight together to save the world — and fight over the affections of blonde bombshell and vampire slayer Buffy Summers. On television, these male relationships challenge and fortify the meaning of friendship between men. On the internet, they're lovers."

http://www.afterelton.com/archive/elton/print/2006/10/slash.html

I'm actually proud that I found that myself. There's some other articles that mention Nick and Greg that others in the Fort have found.

http://csiwiki.cbs.com/page/Evidence+in+the+Media

In the original article, I must say. They mention something on how we justify these relationships because men stand too close together or look at each other.

Nick and Greg touch and flirt, plus all the freakin' subtext.

It's not the biggest slash ship ever, but it's the most justifiable.