Season 8 **Spoiler Lab** - 'Feast Your Eyes...'

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I don't think they need a new female character persay. I think they should just bump up Valera's presence more (maybe even adding her to the opening credits) or bring back Yelina in a much more permanent capacity... or even bring back Cindy the QD girl (Brooke Bloom) and have her on more. Bringing in a new female character obviously doesn't work that well. Example Tara. Also Riley (as much as I loved her) on Vegas. The majority of viewers are female, therefore male characters are easily taken to than new female ones. I think this is why tptb are quicker to bring in new male characters (whether they are full cast members or recurring characters) than they are new female characters. Vegas (again as much as I loved Riley) should have instead bumped up Wendy's role rather than bringing in a new female character (especially since they lost three main characters) and Miami should bump up Valera's role or bring Yelina back rather than making a new female character.
 
TPTB just can't get over the fact that we know something about this two and, IMHO, it is impossible to refresh or create something new for characters like Ryan and Natalia
- Ryan has gambling problems and whenever he does something he screws it up. Even when he could have been the hero of the episode (WISC), he had to leave the room with his collegues b/c they couldn't trust him anymore. What a horrible ending for a character like him. I really don't see how they could refresh him.
- Natalia was abused by her husband, he died and she has shooting troubles....then what? Can she have a normal storyline without troubles both for her and the others? I guess no...so I don't see how they could refresh her either :rolleyes:

I don't want to sound rude, but these characters are dead to some viewers. As much someone can enjoy them (I'm one of the people who wants to see a lot more about both of them ;)), I really don't see how they could come up with something actually new for both of them.
I totally disagree.Of course something new and refreshing can be thought up for both these characters.People with problems can and have changed for the better in life.Because Ryan has a gambling problem(which he is receiving counseling for) does not mean he can't grow ,learn from his mistakes and become a better person,people do this in life.The same with Natalia and her domestic abuse problem.They can have a new story by growing from the problems they have.The reason some may see them as dead is because the writers and TPTB keep giving Ryan the same problems over and over again,that is the complaint I see about him on other boards and the posters wonder why the writers keep giving him crappy stories when they don't have to.Why does he screw up so much,it's because that's how he is writen.The writers and TPTB write positive storylines when they want for others,even when it boarders on the absurd,they can do so for Natalia and Ryan.If they can write positive storylines for new characters they can do so for Natalia and Ryan.There is no reason that TV character lifes can't imitate real life and be turned around.Both these characters are smart,why not have them use their smartness to turn their life around. Perhaps they wouldn't be dead to some viewers if the writers did a better job with these characters.
 
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Pick me - Pick me - I have an idea:lol:.

Why does the show try out new characters on a regular basis? Why not buff up the labrats or why is no case from the hang shift or night shift still ongoing when our CSI start work at 8?

That way intros would not be so rushed and when characters was a bust. They could drop out. I am so clever I know;):lol:.

With Adam leaving the show is down one female (Alexx) and one male (Eric) so they bring in Jesse. The character might be good or it might bust. But they could have avoid putting all their eggs in Jesses basket IMO.

For any Ryan-fan it must odd that the incomming character is allready a friend or ex - collegue of Horatios. Proof= lines in spoiler. Where does that leave him? Horatio was allway the dad, Eric the big brother and Ryan the younger. But instead of making Ryan mature and bring some young guy for Ryan teach the ways of the CSI. They bring Horatios old XXXX.

And for Natalia......look at the way they treated her character during her intro ....Ryan and Eric treating her like ....Well: "Cleared for landing"
So if this guy does anything down that line ....Even if he starts out genuine(?spelling) We all know there has to some trouble in Paradise. Just as we were expecting for Hiphuggercouple. BUT is that character not sooooooo much more then the loveinrest for the male characters?????

Remember when her sister got abducted ....Now see that is a Nat with feeling and character.....But if she gets next to yet another male on the job and that goes bust again(which it has too. Just to make some drama for a couple of episodes as Calleigh and Eric). It´s wasting the good potential that is Eva.....It makes me soooo angry.

I better stop now before I get too ....

Todays post by Ajbuckly:)
 
TPTB just can't get over the fact that we know something about this two and, IMHO, it is impossible to refresh or create something new for characters like Ryan and Natalia
- Ryan has gambling problems and whenever he does something he screws it up. Even when he could have been the hero of the episode (WISC), he had to leave the room with his collegues b/c they couldn't trust him anymore. What a horrible ending for a character like him. I really don't see how they could refresh him.
- Natalia was abused by her husband, he died and she has shooting troubles....then what? Can she have a normal storyline without troubles both for her and the others? I guess no...so I don't see how they could refresh her either :rolleyes:

I don't want to sound rude, but these characters are dead to some viewers. As much someone can enjoy them (I'm one of the people who wants to see a lot more about both of them ;)), I really don't see how they could come up with something actually new for both of them.
I totally disagree.Of course something new and refreshing can be thought up for both these characters.People with problems can and have changed for the better in life.Because Ryan has a gambling problem(which he is receiving counseling for) does not mean he can't grow ,learn from his mistakes and become a better person,people do this in life.The same with Natalia and her domestic abuse problem.They can have a new story by growing from the problems they have.The reason some may see them as dead is because the writers and TPTB keep giving Ryan the same problems over and over again,that is the complaint I see about him on other boards and the posters wonder why the writers keep giving him crappy stories when they don't have to.Why does he screw up so much,it's because that's how he is writen.The writers and TPTB write positive storylines when they want for others,even when it boarders on the absurd,they can do so for Natalia and Ryan.If they can write positive storylines for new characters they can do so for Natalia and Ryan.There is no reason that TV character lifes can't imitate real life and be turned around.Both these characters are smart,why not have them use their smartness to turn their life around. Perhaps they wouldn't be dead to some viewers if the writers did a better job with these characters.

I totally disagree as well. Ryan and Natalia are so underdeveloped that there are many stories yet to be written and they can take them in many different directions. Let's use Ryan as the major example. As I stated earlier, Ryan has been on this show since about the third episode of season 3 and it is sad how little we know about him. How about a story showing us how he ended the way he is today by say, meeting a family member or through a case which directly affects him emotionally? Yes, Ryan has screwed up but as greatfan so wisely stated that, as in real life, they can show Ryan learning from his mistakes and growing as a person, instead of throwing him into another situation where he is in hot water again. The writers have done a lousy job with both Ryan and Natalia and it completely unfair to the actors who play them.

I second Delkolover. I don't want Ryan or Nat in flashbacks if tptb can't make it believable. We know how they came to the team, there's no undoing what we've seen, it's too much of a stretch.
But I also think that if they let us in on Ryan and Nat's personal and separated perspectives then it could work just fine.

If TPTB wanted to, they could include Ryan and Nat in their own separate flashbacks, even if they were only little ones. Maybe they could leave off Horatio's flashback and go to Ryan figuring out where he wants to go to be a criminalist for 3 minutes or so.
Not very CSI-Miami-ish, but this season is supposedly supposed to be 'the one to watch' and different from the others. Maybe making the characters more personal would be a plus.

You're right Wasabi; if the flashbacks don't make sense or go against everything we know already, it isn't worth showing both Ryan and Natalia.
If they can't fit them in, give them more scenes (if any) in the present day.

Quite honestly, I'm done giving tptb "passes". This has gone on for too long, imo. And it's the premiere, it isn't the time to leave out the others, whether some believe they belong there or not. Plain & simple, there are ways to work in Ryan & Natalia, just as they're managing to include Frank & Jesse (2 characters who were not there from the beginning either). I won't bicker too much further on the episode since we have yet to see it & there is a slight chance they still show something - all the same I'm very tired of CBS throwing these promos together & showing as little respect as tptb do for these characters. It's offensive.... but then again these are the same people who think Vegas' ratings will skyrocket if they put Laurence Fishburne is a new outfit this season. :rolleyes:

It is also unfair to the actors who play these characters. Since Adam is for sure leaving (not that I am even remotely happy about it), maybe it is time to shake things up and start focusing on the characters who to this point haven't been given the attention they as well deserve.
 
TPTB just can't get over the fact that we know something about this two and, IMHO, it is impossible to refresh or create something new for characters like Ryan and Natalia
- Ryan has gambling problems and whenever he does something he screws it up. Even when he could have been the hero of the episode (WISC), he had to leave the room with his collegues b/c they couldn't trust him anymore. What a horrible ending for a character like him. I really don't see how they could refresh him.
- Natalia was abused by her husband, he died and she has shooting troubles....then what? Can she have a normal storyline without troubles both for her and the others? I guess no...so I don't see how they could refresh her either :rolleyes:

I don't want to sound rude, but these characters are dead to some viewers. As much someone can enjoy them (I'm one of the people who wants to see a lot more about both of them ;)), I really don't see how they could come up with something actually new for both of them.

I disagree as well. We know personally how well tptb do at dragging storylines out (the romance) and brining up new and interesting things about characters. Are we to assume that Ryan's gambling and Nat's abuse are all that there is to those characters?

I can name at least 5 different storylines for the both of them off the top of my skull. People are made up of many layers, for both characters- especially Ryan, we've only seen a couple.

TPTB are completely capable of making something more out of these characters. They just haven't tried.
 
And for Natalia......look at the way they treated her character during her intro ....Ryan and Eric treating her like ....Well: "Cleared for landing"
So if this guy does anything down that line ....Even if he starts out genuine(?spelling) We all know there has to some trouble in Paradise.
Whoa, whoa, whoa; back up!

I got "Natalia & New Guy = Couple" out of that. TELL ME I got it wrong. PLEASE. This show does NOT need any more couples!
 
I just realized that H has a beeper on in this pic :lol:

csi-miami-21-1024x696-1-1.jpg


Is it the 21st yet??

As far as I can remember, people used to carry them around that time. It was a period when Cell phones were becoming common among joe and jane public.

Yes, thanks, I remember, but it was just funny to see it and think back to those days... time flies
 
I just realized that H has a beeper on in this pic :lol:

csi-miami-21-1024x696-1-1.jpg


Is it the 21st yet??

As far as I can remember, people used to carry them around that time. It was a period when Cell phones were becoming common among joe and jane public.

Yes, thanks, I remember, but it was just funny to see it and think back to those days... time flies

:guffaw: Yeah I think I pointed that out too on another thread!! I mean it just goes to show how far we have come technology wise but it also dates you...ya know? Makes you realize just how much time has passed...and it makes you think back to where you were in 1997. I will admit it, I had a beeper and my father had one of those old cell phones....not the big big ones but the grey flip open ones that were touted as being smaller (not that they were) and better!! Ahhh those were the days :lol: Man, I feel old!! :lol:

Little off topic but I remember reading a blog where this 13 yr old kid traded his ipod for his father's old cassette player b/c he wanted to see what it was like. Well he used it for, I think, a week but it took the kid 3 days before he realized you could turn the cassette inside the player over and there was music on the other side!!! :lol: Now, think about how far we have come.....that kid made me feel exceptionally old! I remember my first cassette, well one of, was Billy Joel. In fact my first CD was Madonna's "Like a Virgin" album!
 
And for Natalia......look at the way they treated her character during her intro ....Ryan and Eric treating her like ....Well: "Cleared for landing"
So if this guy does anything down that line ....Even if he starts out genuine(?spelling) We all know there has to some trouble in Paradise.
Whoa, whoa, whoa; back up!

I got "Natalia & New Guy = Couple" out of that. TELL ME I got it wrong. PLEASE. This show does NOT need any more couples!


Well, that is pending on whatever you read into Evas interview: He is up for grabs.

And bare in mind "Couple one" is breaking off at the moment. So we might be getting a replacementcouple:guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:. Before the rest of you go crazy.:). I am not saying that Nat is not better then a replacementcouple. BUT IMO she is hinted at someone might be having interest in the new character and up for grabs usually doesn´t mean friendship. But I could be proven wrong later. For the moment up for grabs is your personal interpretation.

The show without couples? We have had Horatio and Yelina(?), Horatio and Marisol, Eric and Nat, Ryan and Nat, Calleigh and Jake, Calleigh and Hagen(?), Eric and Calleigh. Am I missing someone?

We even got Nat and ex- husband doing it when he was with doing it to Valera too.:scream: but I don´t consider that a lovestoryline. Horatio - Julia and whats his name:guffaw:.

If you go to shippertreads we are some that read loveinterest into alot of different things. So IMO and my interpretation of showhistory and the fact that "Couple one" is breaking off. Well they are going to set Eddie up with someone down the line. And Eva is hinted that someone is interested. So.....But I am not forgetting that this is the realm of spoilerland and spoilers as to characterdescription can change. I read somewhere in here He has a good body:wtf:. The actor might have that and the character might have that(go figure) but is that really one of your best qualities as an actor and character. I wonder what sort of storylines you are bond for then:lol:. Opss they allready showed me with a promoshot from a episode:lol:. Before any Eddie - fans go over the top. I am just speaking from the things we know so far. Not only can the change but in this case I hope Eddie is a talented actor and they give him some good storylines. If I am worried it is to how writers and producers are going with show and new characters. And their description of new characters.

By the way you have seen my previous post. I was very surprised to see that the characterdescripton was so short. But are something missing there?

Whether or not the show should have more couples. There is a shipperdebat in here too.
 
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TPTB just can't get over the fact that we know something about this two and, IMHO, it is impossible to refresh or create something new for characters like Ryan and Natalia
- Ryan has gambling problems and whenever he does something he screws it up. Even when he could have been the hero of the episode (WISC), he had to leave the room with his collegues b/c they couldn't trust him anymore. What a horrible ending for a character like him. I really don't see how they could refresh him.
- Natalia was abused by her husband, he died and she has shooting troubles....then what? Can she have a normal storyline without troubles both for her and the others? I guess no...so I don't see how they could refresh her either :rolleyes:

I don't want to sound rude, but these characters are dead to some viewers. As much someone can enjoy them (I'm one of the people who wants to see a lot more about both of them ;)), I really don't see how they could come up with something actually new for both of them.
I totally disagree.Of course something new and refreshing can be thought up for both these characters.People with problems can and have changed for the better in life.Because Ryan has a gambling problem(which he is receiving counseling for) does not mean he can't grow ,learn from his mistakes and become a better person,people do this in life.The same with Natalia and her domestic abuse problem.They can have a new story by growing from the problems they have.The reason some may see them as dead is because the writers and TPTB keep giving Ryan the same problems over and over again,that is the complaint I see about him on other boards and the posters wonder why the writers keep giving him crappy stories when they don't have to.Why does he screw up so much,it's because that's how he is writen.The writers and TPTB write positive storylines when they want for others,even when it boarders on the absurd,they can do so for Natalia and Ryan.If they can write positive storylines for new characters they can do so for Natalia and Ryan.There is no reason that TV character lifes can't imitate real life and be turned around.Both these characters are smart,why not have them use their smartness to turn their life around. Perhaps they wouldn't be dead to some viewers if the writers did a better job with these characters.
You're absolutely right on this. What I meant with my post is that considering the fact TPTB always give them these crappy stories, I just can't see them writing something good for the two of them unless they bring a new character on the show (male or female....whatever!)

I'm just begging TPTB to hire someone new, someone actually refreshing as I don't find Ryan and Natalia refreshing at all especially when TPTB keep ignoring them or giving them crappy storylines :shifty:!!!!

I can't see redemption for any character on this show. It didn't happen with Ray senior...he was always UC and he died b/c of it. Hagen was psychopath and he died blowing his head off in front of Calleigh (oh yeah what a redemption :rolleyes::lol:). Jake Berkley had a strange past and we still don't know his past and I'm quite sure that he's exactly. Duke Duquesne was an alcoholist and I highly doubt he gave up drinking. Ryan was a gambler and screwed up....he still screws up even when he helps a kid.
So yeah I don't believe in redemption on this show.....on the entire franchise :shifty:

So, why don't take new characters with new storylines???...possibely good ones (as they're already doing with Eddie's character) so that also the others can bond with them and possibely smile 'case I'm having big troubles recalling the last time I saw all the CSIs smiling.

So yeah I'm all for new characters if it means they'll stop ridiculing both Ryan and Natalia and they'll stop with the shipping stuff :rolleyes:
 
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Flo,the writers shouldn't have to bring on new characters in order to "refresh" Natalia and Ryan.Perhaps what is needed is new and refreshed writers.I still think if they can write for new characters,they can write for these two..Bringing on new characters in no way means they will do better by these two characters.As writers,they should feel ashamed of themselves,the writers are the ones that need redemption.We have more talented fanfic writers right on this sight.We keep getting crap because that is what we accept,and I pretty much told TPTB that very thing when I wrote them a letter.There can be improvement all around and there should be.With this upcoming season,perhaps there will be less emphasis on some things and characters,and improvement seen else where.
 
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Flo,the writers shouldn't have to bring on new characters in order to "refresh" Natalia and Ryan.Perhaps what is needed is new and refreshed writers.I still think if they can write for new characters,they can write for these two..Bringing on new characters in no way means they will do better by these two characters.As writers,they should feel ashamed of themselves,the writers are the ones that need redemption.We have more talented fanfic writers right on this sight.We keep getting crap because that is what we accept,and I pretty much told TPTB that very thing when I wrote them a letter.There can be improvement all around and there should be.With this upcoming season,perhaps there will be less emphasis on some things and characters,and improvement seen else where.

Totally agree with you, greatfan! The writers, and the show runner who is approving this stuff the writers are coming up with, is the problem. There are other shows with ensemble casts where every character gets the attention they deserve - perfect example in my book, NCIS. Their writers make it look easy and you won't see a more inclusive "team" on television. (btw - and totally OT - did anyone catch the NCIS cast discussion on ET last week? Didn't seem to be an ego in the room and they genuinely seemed to care about each other - even kidding Mark Harmon when he talked about caring so much for all of them being protective of the bunch and what they have).

What it comes down to is the writer's inability to produce a coherent story that includes participation from every character and, I feel, a total disrespect for certain characters on the show.

Natalia, Ryan and Frank have limitless potential simply due to the fact we know so little about them. And they are portrayed by actors with huge talent - if given a chance to display it. People are BORED with all Horatio, Eric and Calleigh all the time. They have been the focus for too long. Its someone else's turn.

And probably the only thing that most CSI Miami fans seem to stand together on these days is that the show needs to stop ignoring Natalia, Ryan and Frank. And we have been pleading for this for a while now.

Eric may be leaving but I think we stand a good chance of having to watch Calleigh be oh so angst ridden for the rest of Procter's contract with Eric being gone constantly referenced. And if Calleigh pops up pregnant - my stomach is turning at the thought of the escalation of the soap opera that, IMO, already exists as a result of that "ship"! :rolleyes:

Use Horatio and Calleigh to bring the other characters out of the background! Make them the support every once in a while and the other character the focus. (It's clear from the past couple of seasons putting Horatio and Calleigh together isn't a good idea anymore.)

Natalia and Horatio and Natalia and Ryan work wonderfully together. Bring her back to some quality time by hooking her up with one of them on an alternate basis (work wise - I'd rather seen every idea of a "ship" sink like the Titanic than go through another "romance" the way CSI Miami writers conceive one). Eva is an amazing talent and given the opportunity she can truly shine. I've seen it. She is one of the best actresses on television and they do her a great injustice keeping her in the background.

Frank works really well with all of the characters, but he's truly funny with Ryan and Calleigh. He's also had some really good moments with Natalia. He and Horatio are good friends. How about a "personal" story with Horatio as a support/confidant for Frank, but Frank the focus of the story.

Ryan has so much potential he almost needs a show of his own! I truly love that character, but they need to quit beating on him and making him a screw up. He much too smart for that. For Ryan I believe it's acting on emotion and not thinking it all the way through. Also, failing to trust those who would be there for him. Horatio has never NOT been there for Ryan. Natalia has always been a good, supportive friend. Hell, Horatio and Natalia were there for Ryan during his suspension when no one else was. Ryan tends to be a loner much the same way Horatio is when he dealing with personal challenges. Maybe that's why Horatio appears to be such a strong ally for Ryan - he sees himself and empathizes with Ryan's struggle. This is why he makes himself available as someone Ryan can turn to - if Ryan would get it through his head! Ryan has been referred to as a Mini-Horatio on more than one occasion. ;) Calleigh has also been a mentor and friend (excluding her joining with Eric in WISC). I can see him not trusting Eric and I don't blame him there.

How about Rick Stetler? Why is he eternally stuck in IAB? Let's get him in a position where he is forced to interact with the team more often. The interaction between Horatio and Rick is always priceless. I'd love to see a lot more of Rick.

Jesse is a character I'm hoping they will use very carefully - for the show's sake and for the actor's sake. His personal life is his own business, but it doesn't stop people from making negative comments about him because of it. He doesn't need the wrath of the CSI Miami fans on him as well (I feel so bad for Lawrence Fishburne - they have really screwed up introducing his character). I love that this character will have a past association with Horatio. Please make him a serious criminalist and not a "player". Men can be reduced to nothing more than eye-candy in the same manner that they do it to women - and it's not fair for either.

Horatio I'll leave alone. His behavior has been discussed ad nauseum. While there are signs of a change on the horizon, the past couple of seasons he hasn't been the best leader and has had moments of truly questionable decisions. That said, he remains my favorite character and I think he can find his way back to who he once was. Last season was a good start and I'm hoping it continues.

A Horatio moment I would truly love to see that I know will never happen? One brief scene with Horatio entering an office that indicates he's talking to a counselor. Wouldn't have to be much, just enough to let us know that he's finally decided he needs to get some help dealing with some of the demons in his past.

They make the same mistake on this show that they do on House. All these life experiences for Horatio and Ryan, but neither of them ever seems to "learn" anything from them.

There is a promise that may change this season - I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I truly believe that this show can return to what it once was - a true "team" working together to solve crimes with their focus on the victim and not their own little dramas. It would be intersting to visit their personal lives occasionally, but not as a focus of the story. You leave too many fans out when you focus on only one or two characters.

Whoa! Time for me to shut the heck up! :(
 
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BUT IMO she is hinted at someone might be having interest in the new character and up for grabs usually doesn´t mean friendship. But I could be proven wrong later. For the moment up for grabs is your personal interpretation.

I'm sure Eva was just joking around. I really don't think it meant anything.

======

Personally, I hope Jesse is married with a couple of kids. :lol: None of the CSIs are ever married when they first start with the show. :lol: It would be a nice change. Horatio and Natalia are the only ones amongst the team who have ever been married (excluding Frank,Yelina and Alexx since they're not CSIs). Horatio's was very brief due to her death. Natalia was divorced when she came to the lab. Well, there was Megan, but she was a widow when the show started, so... What is so wrong with a CSI being happily married (preferably to someone they do not work with on a daily basis as on NY)? :lol:

So yeah I'm all for new characters if it means they'll stop ridiculing both Ryan and Natalia

Well, there is supposedly this Walter character. He seems to screw up, only his screw up basically helps solve the case faster. :lol: But maybe if he's gonna be more permanent, they'll let him be the screw-up and stop writing that kind of stuff for Ryan. :lol:

Bringing on new characters in no way means they will do better by these two characters

Agreed. Just look at Vegas for example. They brought on two new characters. One got shoved into the background for the other one... and the other one got nearly all of the time, leaving longtime characters in the dust. The writers didn't (or rather the bigwig ptb didn't allow the writers to) do better by the lesser used characters (Greg for example) when new characters came along. How can we be sure that it would be any different for Miami?

Delynn, I agree with pretty much everything you said. Although I hope we don't have to see Calleigh upset for the whole entire season. A few eps is probably a given that we'll see though. With such a storyline it would be almost impossible to not... but Cal is a strong woman and I hope the writers will protray that strength well in the writing for her this season. :)
 
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Very nice post Delynn.Agree with everything said.

Me too, & I always have so much to comment on but this isn't really the spot for it, so for those who do wish to continue the discussion I bumped up the R/N/F/V thread.

Back to spoilers, which I have nothing to say about right now, sorry. :p
 
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