Louise/Sofia: Tough Women Don't Try, They Do! Part 2

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sarahvma said:
But my issue is that this is a fantastic ensemble cast. And part of the reason is that everyone has their defined role or purpose or just this thing that they bring to the chemistry.
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I agree in part. It used to be a fantastic ensemble cast. That is, until the writers started killing off the rapport of the entire aforementioned cast to go with a romantic storyline that became very much out of place in the show. (but that whole farce is for another thread)

sarahvma said:
I don't feel that Sofia currently, for better or worse, brings anything unique. And that's fine - she's "random detective".
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Totally disagree on that front. I didn't like when they brought her character in as a demoted CSI, but I really believe they've put her in the right place as a main detective. For the CSIs, you have both male and female perspectives; You have a male, non-people-person loner; a non-people person female with an abusive past, who shows an enormous heart for specific victims; you have the requisite minority to bring in the "street" perspective; you have the "jock" - a wholesome, dependable guy; you have the outgoing, motherly, street-smart woman with powerful connections; you have the lab rat-turned CSI rookie who brought enthusiasm to the lab, and is now seeing the "real" world.

For the cops, all you had was Brass - a crusty curmudgeon with a witty, sarcastic sense of humor. Thanks to Ellie, ABRTI, and the end of season 6, we've finally been able to see that he's got a very soft heart; Then there have been the fair number of rotating detectives who popped in and out at random, some never to be seen again (think Dets. Wolf, Evans & Sulik), who would never have a chance at being given a personality because of the minimal screen time. So they finally get it right in bringing Sofia in as a female cop. At first, she was written as all tough and by-the-book. Now that she's finally been able to get a fair amount of screen time, they've been able to expand on their personality, and just like Brass, they've been able to show her "softer" side. Most female cops in real life aren't all tough-as-nails, show-no-emotion people. They all have a softer side. It's in the female genetics.

sarahvma said:what unique character trait does she possess that makes her different from any other character currently on the show? What makes Sofia unique in Season 7?
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The unique thing I've seen so far is the growth they've given her character. (see my comment above)

sarahvma said:
Not as a Sara fan, just as someone who's never really liked that storyline. Louise and Jorja went to the writers and told them to cut it out. I imagine WP had issues with the Sofia/Grissom storyline, or the writers simply realized they had nowhere to take it, and it was cut. But that is neither here nor there. I think that Carol M. ultimately let the cat out of the bag in the Season 5 commentary when she admitted that Sofia was there more to shake up Sara than for real romance purposes.
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It's the same thing the writers tried to do with Cath & Sara in the beginning. Both Jorja & Marg begged the writers not to go down that path with the two women constantly fighting. I never liked the Sofia/Grissom storyline to begin with either. There was no place for it. It's the same reason I have a big problem with the current romantic situation on the show. I don't care who the two main characters are that are paired up. There's just no place for it on this show. It's totally screwed up the dynamics of this once love-to-watch show, which for me has become a doesn't-hold-my-interest-anymore show because the stories/cases are lame and recycled.

sarahvma said:But screentime is one of my complaints. I don't feel she gets any personal screentime, but tons of regular screentime. So I return to my original question: what does Sofia have or do that is in any way special or different?
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I think watching Sofia's reactions during her "regular" screentime is very critical in figuring out her character - just watching how she reacts or doesn't react to a certain situation (normal or strange) is very revealing for her character. Just remember - we had the same thing with all of the other characters. It's just that we've had almost seven full seasons to watch their subtle reactions to those simple things and we know how they're going to act in a certain situaiton. With Sofia, we've only had just over a season to start gatherine clues as to who she really is.
 
You can't really believe that the team atmosphere has gone down since Season 6. If anything, I think it's way up this year from the year previous. Yes, the team worked together more last year, but they never had any personal moments, save a handful. Now we have less pairings, but we get a lot more into their lives, or back into the little moments like Season 1 had.

I don't blame Sofia, nor do I praise her. At this point, I simply think it's time for her to go.
 
Yes, I do believe that the team atmosphere has gone down since Season 6. TPTB said that season 6 was to be all about the team getting back together, but I haven't seen it yet in almost two seasons since then. All I've seen since the beginning of season 6 is the same few pairings over & over again - even though there are six CSIs. That SHOULD make for a nice rotation each time out, but we don't get that.

Less pairings/more personal moments? Yes, that's definitely true, but I'd whole heartedly take more pairings and less personal moments any day. That's what I loved the most about seasons 1-4. You had the small bits of personal moments, but the main focus on the cases. It all went downhill when that atmosphere changed.

And I'd definitely take the addition of Sofia on a full-time basis over the ever-changing, one-time-only detectives that all of a sudden pop up. O'Riley and Vartann were about the only ones other than Brass to show up more than a time or two through the first five seasons. Vega & Cavalier were on just a couple times too. We only saw Lockwood for a few episodes until he was killed. Then there were the ones I mentioned previously - Wolf, Sulik, Evans, and what about the young detective in the Pilot? Did he even have a name? All of a sudden, all we saw was Brass. Having Sofia in a more continuous role, you get the opportunity to see her character evolve and not just fill the role of a no-name detective to be at a scene just because Brass is busy on a different case. Sofia's presence gives the sense of familiarity each time out. You don't need to keep asking yourself "oh, who is that new cop? Will we see them next week too or are they just a filler for this week?"
 
Yes, I do believe that the team atmosphere has gone down since Season 6. TPTB said that season 6 was to be all about the team getting back together, but I haven't seen it yet in almost two seasons since then. All I've seen since the beginning of season 6 is the same few pairings over & over again - even though there are six CSIs. That SHOULD make for a nice rotation each time out, but we don't get that.
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But... yeah - that's what I meant. Since Season 6, not after Season 6 ended. You were originally faulting the relationship in your post. But the relationship wasn't revealed till the end of Season 6.

What I would like to see from Sofia, if Louise's show doesn't pan out and she returns to CSI, is the sense that she's not just another Detective - that they actually did bother giving her a backstory. It doesn't have to be through constant personal storylines, or any personal storylines. But throwaway lines here and there that actually make it seem like she used to be a CSI or work with them. In Season 1, after Brass became a detective again, he would make occasional reference to his job change, his former relations with the CSIs, his knowledge of being a CSI. They did that for the first half of Season 6, and then it disappeared.
 
sarahvma said:
But... yeah - that's what I meant. Since Season 6, not after Season 6 ended. You were originally faulting the relationship in your post. But the relationship wasn't revealed till the end of Season 6.
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Sure, it wasn't "revealed" until the end, but the heavy anvil drops with the not-so-subtle hints of it throughout the last half of the season (googly-eyed looks, etc), made TPTB bring the chemistry of the rest of the cast into the toilet.

sarahvma said:What I would like to see from Sofia, if Louise's show doesn't pan out and she returns to CSI, is the sense that she's not just another Detective - that they actually did bother giving her a backstory. It doesn't have to be through constant personal storylines, or any personal storylines. But throwaway lines here and there that actually make it seem like she used to be a CSI or work with them. In Season 1, after Brass became a detective again, he would make occasional reference to his job change, his former relations with the CSIs, his knowledge of being a CSI. They did that for the first half of Season 6, and then it disappeared.
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I think the reason they haven't given Sofia a real backstory yet is that I think TPTB have only recently (within the past season) become comfortable with where they've finally put Sofia in their cast.

I believe that they were taken aback by the viewers' dislike at Sofia when they first brought her in as a CSI. They tried hard to think of a way to make her more accepted, so they made her a cop, and weren't sure how that change would be received. It's taken them to this point where they feel the majority of viewers have finally accepted her in with the cast. Now would be the time for them to start giving her more of a real backstory. However, those plans would be thwarted by the possibility of Louise's new series being picked up and her out of the picture on CSI.

Doc Robbins is a main cast member now too. We only see very small bits of his character, even after all this time. If you remember, we didn't get much of Greg's story for the first few seasons, even though he was a "regular". Last season and most of this season was his growth into personal story as he became a CSI. If you go by his timeline, now would be the time for them to start with storylines for both Doc & Sofia.
 
Doc Robbins is a main cast member now too. We only see very small bits of his character, even after all this time. If you remember, we didn't get much of Greg's story for the first few seasons, even though he was a "regular". Last season and most of this season was his growth into personal story as he became a CSI. If you go by his timeline, now would be the time for them to start with storylines for both Doc & Sofia.
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I agree with you about the timeline for Sofia however, IIRC RDH was made a main cast member at the same time ES was. They've done very little up until this season to even give Doc screentime or actually give him a personality. Up until this season he's been Doc, the nice (except when dealing with Brass) old, coroner guy. But this season they've shown us that he can also be the cranky, old coroner guy as well. Yeah, he's had a few throwaway lines over the season but given that he's been in the main cast for several years, it's not that much.

As for Sofia, I believe her character development has been stymied by the general cast bloat. Hodges isn't a main cast member and look how much screentime he's had this season! Last season we got way more Sofia character develepment but this season, she's been shoved into the background, much like Brass has.
 
Adding in that Wallace did indeed join the cast as a Regular back in Feb 2005 it was announced. Louise was said to be hired but wouldn't be in opening credits because at the time she was pregnante with her first child and didn't know if she would be returning, Which as we know she did.

Also regarding the atmosphere of the show in the overall there is a thread for discussing that and the writers, while you all are doing pretty good at keeping this on Louise and the many Characters she has, did and will play, it started to slip a bit. As I said on page 23, debating fine but there are some that are becoming uncomfortable that the thread is heading away from the reason its here. -- You don't have to like both to be here its not a requirement, but the debating there was as I said making some uncomfortable. Were not saying to stop it just remember that debating can take a tone that can be good and sometimes turn people off. There are some who do not debate but just want to talk about the actress/character in the general sense.

I think it will work itself out and you all will find the middle ground to the point everyone will feel a bit more comfortable posting.
 
sarahvma said:
What I would like to see from Sofia, if Louise's show doesn't pan out and she returns to CSI, is the sense that she's not just another Detective - that they actually did bother giving her a backstory. They did that for the first half of Season 6, and then it disappeared.
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I still don’t understand what you mean by Sofia having no back story or personal screen time. She’s had plenty, or maybe your definition of these things just doesn’t take into account all the times over season 6 and 7 that we have gotten to see her as more then just a “here’s the body, I’ll go interview the witnesses” type of detective like what we got with all the other random cops. As for back-story, In Bodies in Motion we got to hear about her mother being a Police Captain and her anger at being transferred from officer to CSI and then we heard about her again in ABRTI. In Way To Go we got to hear about her father driving the family around on holidays to see old civil war sights. That doesn’t even includ the stuff from season 5; but that’s at least as much back-story as we got about Grissom or Greg in the first few years, and it’s probably as much personal back-story as Doc Robins has had altogether.

And as for having no “personal screen time” in which we could see her being more then just a random detective. What about her conversation with the grandfather in Burn Out, her reaction to the cameras in I Like To Watch, that wired subtexty scene with Sara in Werewolves, her banter with Nick in Built to Kill and Shooting Stars, the advice she gave Greg in Post Mortem, her reaction to the death of the other officer in Monster In The Box, all of ABRTI, talking to the girlfriend of the victim at the end of Werewolves, laughing at Nick in Rashomama, her worrying over Brass and threatening to run Ellie out of town in Way To Go, her banter with Catherine about the origami in Big Shots and her interaction with that kid in Burn Out. i could keep going but the point is we’ve got to see plenty of instances where she was more then a no-name detective. Tell me how many other times any of the detectives of the week got that kind of screen time.

I think you are right that in season 6 she was more the hard cop and in season 7 we’ve gotten to see a more relaxed side but I don’t think that reflects a disparity in the character as you said, just a growth and an expansion of her personality that comes with getting more screen time. Just look at Fanysmakin’ and Big Shots from season 7, she can still be just as tough as in ABRTI and Poppin’ Tage from season 6 but now we get to see that within a more well rounded character.
 
To lighten the mood a little and to counterbalance all the words - two more Esther caps. :)

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****EDITED for oversized images. When posting pictures in threads please keep them under or close to: 1 Large pic 400x400,or 2 Medium pics 130x130, or 3 Small pics 115x115. Thank you.***
 
Sure, it wasn't "revealed" until the end, but the heavy anvil drops with the not-so-subtle hints of it throughout the last half of the season (googly-eyed looks, etc), made TPTB bring the chemistry of the rest of the cast into the toilet.
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You mean in the third to last episode of the season? Come on. Get real.

I simply don't feel that Sofia gets the personal screentime or the development that a regular cast member richly deserves. Obviously Louise, being the smart, talented woman that I've seen in other things, feels this way as well and has thankfully gotten a job where (if it gets picked up) she'll have a full character to portray.

*shrug*

I don't like what they're doing with her currently, and if she loved the character, she'd be staying.
 
Hey guys, let's perhaps change the subject because this isn't going in an altogether great direction...


So here's a question:

Out of everything you've seen Louise in, what is your favorite thing you've seen her in?
 
Nice pictures atfm.

Drumchik, do interviews count because she’s was so vary cute in that US 5 one :).

I think I’d say CSI because I like the character so much and then maybe Esther because she looked absolutely gorgeous and we got to see a lot of range from her since she carried the film and then House of Eliott for pretty much the same reasons.
 
Glad you all like the pics. :)

LOL, I was gonna say the Five US interview, too, she was too cute in that.

I've seen her in CSI, The Call and Esther, all very different roles. I think I'll go with CSI as my fave. That strut is to die for. ;) Okay, I'm kidding, it's not just that.
 
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