Grissom & Sara #24: Since Norman Fell

[sarahvma]

gawd, me too. i mean, i'm social and all, i go to parties, have a bunch of friends, but it bothers me to have people around me all the time. if i am to spend a week alone, that's not a problem, if i am to party with people, i will.

sometimes there is just this need so you don't have to entertain anybody, talk to anybody, or socialize. you are alone, you need this time to spend only with yourself and you don't give a DAMN.

You're singing to the choir, girl. I totally love my alone time. Makes the time with other people that much nicer

Exactly - you know, in truth I get a little tired of people saying "You should get out more!"

I DO. I see friends, I go to parties, I just don't need to be in constant cell phone contact with them and be out with them EVERY.NIGHT.

So that's something that always kind of bugged me about You've Got Male. So Sara enjoys pouring herself into her work... so what?

I mean, you almost got the sense from their conversations in Gentle Gentle and Too Tough to Die that Sara and Grissom were saying to each other things they'd always thought, "You know, this doesn't apply to ME, but people say it all the time, so here you go."

When WP says that Grissom wants to be alone, I think he was saying Grissom chooses to be alone. So that makes him having a relationship with Sara, which WP has said time and time again that he fully supports, all the more profound. Grissom isn't tortured and lonely - he didn't go to Sara to fill some void, he went to her because he wanted to BE with her.

And if he needs to take some time, that's understandable.

Sara doesn't strike me as the kind of person who needs to be glued to that persons' side every moment.

And ironically it's been Grissom all season - first in the finale he's at HER house, then he brings her lunch, he comes in to check on her in Fannysmackin' - we've only seen Sara go to Grissom a couple of times by comparison.

Far different than before they were together.

Again, nice.

And the fact that they're so clearly comfortable with each other at work is good. Although they're aware (Built to Kill 2 with Ecklie) of the possible dangers of being together too often, it almost seems as though they enjoy being around each other without necessarily having to add the relationship element.

 

[forensicsgirl]

sarahvma said:
When WP says that Grissom wants to be alone, I think he was saying Grissom chooses to be alone. So that makes him having a relationship with Sara, which WP has said time and time again that he fully supports, all the more profound. Grissom isn't tortured and lonely - he didn't go to Sara to fill some void, he went to her because he wanted to BE with her.

EXACTLY. When a solitary person chooses a mate (to coin an old-fashioned turn of phrase) it is usually because the person they have chosen transcends their need for solitude. In other words, their desire for that person is greater than their desire to be alone.

Back to my old faithful comparison when talking about GSR - the classics. Darcy could have had just about anyone. He had his pick of girls from amidst the wealthy socialites of his society - he was rich, desirable. He chose none of them. He was solitary and anti-social, standing on the fringes, not bowing to pressure from his family (his aunt) to take a wife (her daughter, for example)

Then he met Elizabeth, and fell in love with her, almost against his will. His love for her transcended his desire to remain aloof and alone.

Mr. Rochester was a similar figure. He traveled the world alone, seeking solitude and peace. He rarely remained at home for more than a few weeks or even days at a time, but when Jane Eyre came to live at Thornfield, he stayed almost permanently, seeking out her company. Like Darcy, he could have had his pick of beautiful young socialites, but he only wanted Jane.

Grissom is similar to these men. He could have gone the rest of his life single, doing nothing but work. To him, that was a life:

Looking for things, analyzing them ... trying to figure out the world
-- that's a life. -Grissom, The Hunger Artist

But he wanted Sara. He CHOSE to be with Sara. It wasn't to fill the void, as you said Sarah - he didn't really have a void to fill, other than the void left by NOT having Sara in his life. It wasn't a need to have SOMEONE or ANYONE. It was a need for HER ALONE.

Anyway, on another subject, I have a shameless bit of pimping to be done. Chapter Fourteen or Retribution is now up, for anyone that’s reading it. And if anyone’s waiting for it to be finished before they start, the final chapter will be up in the next day or so, and the epilogue a day or so after that, so not long to wait

You can find it at ff.net or on my own site

edited because 'feel' and 'fell' are not the same thing

 

[sarahvma]

EXACTLY. When a solitary person chooses a mate (to coin an old-fashioned turn of phrase) it is usually because the person they have chosen transcends their need for solitude. In other words, their desire for that person is greater than their desire to be alone.

Yeah, and I thought it was rather cool of "RamGold" to write the burger scene on a LOT of continuity levels for the opener.

The first is that they aknowledged what we'd seen in the finale without it being like "Here they are - they're having SEX" (cough - no one taped Sara's panties to a corkboard - cough). The second was that it was almost a direct answer to the hamburger scene WAY back in the second season.

But the third was that he's holding a tray, too. And the implication, I thought, was that if Warrick hadn't been there, he would've wanted to have lunch with her.

This is the guy who refuses most social outings clearing time in his day to go out, buy her lunch and then (hopefully) eat with her.

I think the very fact that he goes to her place, which seemed to be further enforced by the "I won't wait up" also speaks to this. It's not Grissom, alone, and then Sara knocks on the door. It's Grissom gets out of his own house and goes over to be with her.

That's something that I think the fandom has wanted forever.

Back to my old faithful comparison when talking about GSR - the classics. Darcy could have had just about anyone. He had his pick of girls from amidst the wealthy socialites of his society - he was rich, desirable. He chose none of them. He was solitary and anti-social, standing on the fringes, not bowing to pressure from his family (his aunt) to take a wife (her daughter, for example)

Then he met Elizabeth, and feel in love with her, almost against his will. His love for her transcended his desire to remain aloof and alone.

Yeah, and part of that was Elizabeth herself - she chooses to walk for a couple of hours just to see her sister (which is the moment I think Darcy really falls for her) - she chose to be alone, but she also chose to do something selfless.

So... the idea that Sara is clingy doesn't make sense to me. Were that true, the finale would've been in Grissom's room. Sara would've brought him lunch, we would see Sara sending out the pet names...

I mean, yes - Sara is still reminding him of when they first met, telling him she "won't wait up", but I'm glad that it's evenly dispersed. I think that's probably the bigger thing - how back-and-forth it is.

So... if they are having problems right now, I don't think it IS about Sara, but rather the fear that both of them had prior to the relationship - Grissom worrying that Sara views this as a fling, Sara worrying Grissom is getting cold feet and having doubts.

 

[Adzix]

i'm not here and look what happens. even Gonad is more crowded. btw, i have a question, is it only me or the name "Gonad" brings to mind testicles? i have no idea why.

...

umm, yeah.

on the other news. WP's play's today, i can't wait to hear people's opinions. it's probably going on right NOW. i'd really like him to get positive reviews.

okaaay, i haven't seen "Pride and Prejudice" so i have no clue whatcha reffering to. i'm not a romantic novel lover to be honest. it's b/c i hate most romantic comedies. i think they (not P&P) are usualy the dumbest and most cliche movies ever made. that's why i refuse to read or watch anything else primarily branded as "romantic". in most cases they piss me off. can't say anything about P&P cuz i haven't read the book or watched the movie. the thing about GSR on the other hand, is that i chose to ship this pairing, nobody forced me to (like in rom. com.). besides, their relationship is very unique and NON-cliche. and i love Billy. lol

i have school again, and i have craploads of homeworks, i have to work, play my sport, and go to a zillion hard classes. this is going to be a very restless quarter, can't wait for Christmas. aight' i'm going back to my math. peace.

 

[sarahvma]

i'm not here and look what happens. even Gonad is more crowded. btw, i have a question, is it only me or the name "Gonad" brings to mind testicles? i have no idea why.

Gonad was created because we all thought Sacklie was so hilarious. Yeah - it's totally balls.


Either way, I think after the massive freak-out, we all mellowed because of the promo pics, so we're just in neutral mode till next Thursday.

I enjoyed rewatching Toe Tags - definitely better the second time around.

on the other news. WP's play's today, i can't wait to hear people's opinions. it's probably going on right NOW. i'd really like him to get positive reviews.

From what I hear, it's more of a dress rehearsal for critics than anything else, to work out the bugs.

i'm not a romantic novel lover to be honest.

Then you should know that Pride and Prejudice is the ULTIMATE novel for people who hate romance-y novels. It's about two people who think romance is ridiculous. I adore it.

the thing about GSR on the other hand, is that i chose to ship this pairing, nobody forced me to (like in rom. com.). besides, their relationship is very unique and NON-cliche. and i love Billy. lol

AGREED. The one thing I've always liked about GSR is that they are SO a ship filled with labels, and yet none of them really apply. I don't see older/younger when I look at them or boss/subordinate. If I did, I think it might turn me off, but they have a way of sort of being beyond that that's really nice.

i have school again, and i have craploads of homeworks, i have to work, play my sport, and go to a zillion hard classes. this is going to be a very restless quarter, can't wait for Christmas. aight' i'm going back to my math. peace.

MWAHAHAHAHAHA. I'm out.

 

[greggoooo_fan]

katjo said:
One last post for the night. Grissom is in love with Sara and with work. We will just have to see who the winner is.
When a co-worker and I started flirting with each other it was very intense. We wanted to be with each other so badly but felt it was inappropriate (oh yeah I forgot to mention he is my boss). And he happens to be 15 years older than me. I love older guys. Well not over 20 years older than me. They are so smart and sooooo sexy, and they treat you like royalty because they feel so lucky to have you. But it works both ways. I feel lucky to have him. Even though my co-workers hated me for a while when they found out, we stuck it out, no matter how much it hurt and we have been happily married now for 5 years and those same employees who hated me now say "You guys are an amazing couple". If this relationship is strong it will last.

o god, i soo agree with you on the sexy man thing... i also love older guys, but at this moment, i am in love with someone my own age he had a girlfriend when i met him, and we start flirting. it felled kinda wrong, because he was cheating on his girlfriend, but we wanted to be together.. she found out she had a disease, something called the Kissing-virus... he was scared to break up with her in the first place, cause he thought it was unfair to break up now that she was so sick. i understood that, and we stopped seeing eacother for a while back then. NOW, everything is perfect again but anyway, back to topic, i think we all agree that we NEED a kiss before something bad happens.. *cries*. and i think that writing letters will be effective, so i'll try to write one too that was my post for today, now going back to the tv, celebrating the weekend

 

[beautifulview]

hello loves. i wanted to swing by to give hugs to everyone here, though i've not been keeping up with new people. hi new people! and to the people i know, i know i'm not around a lot but that doesn't mean their love doesn't influence me! i was on such a high after "way to go" i aced my music test which was so hard. anyway. gsr.

i am currently reseaching GSR, ballistics, the whole shebang (my personal life and work life seperate? ) and though not strictly related to the topic you all are on right now, i promise i'll get to that. i saw a whole new blast of rules? and new mods! i've been gone a while. oh well. :waves to fogi and gives hugs:

greggoooo_fan said: i think we all agree that we NEED a kiss before something bad happens.. *cries*. and i think that writing letters will be effective, so i'll try to write one too

i don't wanna say "take what we can get" but i'm just glad they're together. and personally, at least, i am surprised they haven't shown more romance between them, not just flirting. but the veggie burger was so adorable . but sometimes a kiss is not what we really need, i point out way to go. i was hoping for a hand hold, but we got more, sara in the shower! that to me means more than seeing them kiss on screen.

lots of love till i swing by again!
linda

 

[forensicsgirl]

*huggles bview* hey honey! It's been ages!!!

sarahvma said:
AGREED. The one thing I've always liked about GSR is that they are SO a ship filled with labels, and yet none of them really apply.

The world is obsessed with labels, and it kinda pisses me off. It's like people aren't comfortable unless they can put you in a nice, neat box. *yawn* I agree with you, one of the things I like about GSR is that about a dozen labels seem to apply to them, and yet, the labels don't apply when you look closer. They kind of remind me of me

Adzix said:
the thing about GSR on the other hand, is that i chose to ship this pairing, nobody forced me to (like in rom. com.)

For a second when I read that sentence, i thought you were talking about my short film (which is entitled "romcom") and I was all *cry* *whimper* But you weren't, so...

greggoooo_fan said:
i also love older guys, but at this moment, i am in love with someone my own age

I think age is a weird, funny thing. Sometimes an age difference, even a very small one, is SO obvious. And sometimes a gap, even a large one, isn't obvious at all. I think it depends on the people involved. And the age they're at when the age difference is relevant (for example 15 years isn't very large when you're in your 30s or 40s, but when you're a teenager, it's HUGE)

I don't think the age gap between Grissom and Sara factors at all as far as Sara is concerned. i've never gotten the impression from her that she even really notices it. With Grissom, I think it only matters when he's in 'overthink' mode (which, unfortunately, was pretty much all the time from season 2 through season 4). Grissom lives very much in his head (I know how he feels) and I guess in thinking over all the potential problems of a relationship with Sara in him mind, the age gap definitely factored. I mean, he brings it up in his butterflied speech, for one - "someone YOUNG and beautiful"...

However, clearly it isn't an issue, or at least not an important issue, for them now. They even joked about it in BTK2, when talking about Izzy Delancy's music - "Probably before your time" - "I'll download it."

When a couple can joke about something that could be an issue, it isn't an issue anymore. Joking takes the power out of it.

 

[sarahvma]

BVIEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hello loves. i wanted to swing by to give hugs to everyone here, though i've not been keeping up with new people. hi new people! and to the people i know, i know i'm not around a lot but that doesn't mean their love doesn't influence me! i was on such a high after "way to go" i aced my music test which was so hard. anyway. gsr.

lmao. I got 92% on my Spanish final and 93% on my English final. I attribute it to canon.

*nods*

Well, you know... and arduous studying and all of that secondary jazz.

i don't wanna say "take what we can get" but i'm just glad they're together. and personally, at least, i am surprised they haven't shown more romance between them, not just flirting. but the veggie burger was so adorable . but sometimes a kiss is not what we really need, i point out way to go. i was hoping for a hand hold, but we got more, sara in the shower! that to me means more than seeing them kiss on screen.

I think the real problem is that they might be battling with how to show something like that and keep it in character.

Grissom bringing Sara a burger was cute. Grissom feeding Sara said burger while calling her pet names? Out of character. lol.

The world is obsessed with labels, and it kinda pisses me off. It's like people aren't comfortable unless they can put you in a nice, neat box. *yawn* I agree with you, one of the things I like about GSR is that about a dozen labels seem to apply to them, and yet, the labels don't apply when you look closer. They kind of remind me of me

lol - that's definitely the part I like the best. There's too much about it that should fit into that neat box and yet... doesn't.

Sorry - I'd be more eloquent, but my sister is watching Bring It On and I can feel brain cells melting.

As for age differences, there's a lot of talk about how people who like GSR are like Sara aka. we all want older men, problems with authority, blah blah blah. The guy I like? A day younger than me.

 

[Reeble]

Sorry - I'd be more eloquent, but my sister is watching Bring It On and I can feel brain cells melting.

Hey now, don't you go about trash talking Bring it On. That movie is a godsend. *nods* Well, not exactly. It's just awesome.

Anyways, BVIEW!!!!!!!! *tackle hugs* Welcome back, yay! How ya been?

lmao. I got 92% on my Spanish final and 93% on my English final. I attribute it to canon.

85% on my French test. Boo yah. I, too, attribute it to canon. You do not know how happy I was. I'm like, failing French. Right, GSR.

When a solitary person chooses a mate (to coin an old-fashioned turn of phrase) it is usually because the person they have chosen transcends their need for solitude. In other words, their desire for that person is greater than their desire to be alone.

Compeletely agree with you there. And the thing is, both Sara and Grissom are two people who like their privacy and to me, it seems like they both would know when to back off of each other. I think they can sense when the other wants to be alone, which is great.

Thinking about that reminds me of the scene in Bite Me; the whole "suffocated and he couldn't breathe" comment Grissom made was pretty nonchalant, don't you think? I'm still not quite sure if he was talking about the case or "this". I really believe that if they were in a relationship at that point that Sara would be trying extra hard to give him the amount of space he needed, because she's the kind of perso who would be cautious as to what she did in order not to lose him.

Bleh. This post doesn't seem to be making sense. I apologize, I'm tired.

 

[greenplastic]

87% on Economics final. I was reading GSR fanfic instead of studying the night before. WORD!

When a couple can joke about something that could be an issue, it isn't an issue anymore. Joking takes the power out of it.

Yeah, I think that was the whole point of the "I'll download it" line (which made me laugh more that I think it should have...) It's obvious that it isn't an issue on it's own, but when you combine the whole teacher/mentor thing with it I guess that's when it becomes a bit "taboo" or whatever. Like some people think Grissom is more of a father figure to her. Obviously I don't agree with that theory (um, ew). A mentor, yes, but there is a difference between a mentor and father figure.

Compeletely agree with you there. And the thing is, both Sara and Grissom are two people who like their privacy and to me, it seems like they both would know when to back off of each other. I think they can sense when the other wants to be alone, which is great.

Thinking about that reminds me of the scene in Bite Me; the whole "suffocated and he couldn't breathe" comment Grissom made was pretty nonchalant, don't you think? I'm still not quite sure if he was talking about the case or "this". I really believe that if they were in a relationship at that point that Sara would be trying extra hard to give him the amount of space he needed, because she's the kind of perso who would be cautious as to what she did in order not to lose him.

No, that does make sense. I agree with you. I think it is important in a relationship to be able to read the other person well so you aren't offended so easily. And both of them are people who need solitude to think and relax. That doesn't mean they don't enjoy each other's company (or company of others for that matter) it is just good to be alone sometimes. And in the "won't wait up" scene I think it was exactly like that. She wasn't offended; she could tell he was in a state of wanting to be alone. It isn't like she stomped out of the room, rolling her eyes like a spoiled brat.

That's awesome to me.

As far as the Bite Me scene, that is the whole reason I really think they were together at that point. I think that she would want to give him space and not rush into anything not only because she wouldnt want to, but because she knows this man is 50 years old and he has been alone most of his adult life. It's good looking out on her part, really.

 

[britfan]

Just popped in from lurking! Only usually get time to say hello on the Billy threads then disappear into the real world again... Boo Hiss!

Are you all students on here?! Well done on all you grades! See, it is true, GSR makes everyone cleverer... who knew?

I feel a bit like the enemy being a teacher! But since Pride and Prejudice is being mentioned and I'm boring Y10 with it right now, I also thought I'd chuck in the social problems Darcy has. He is socially uncomfortable. He hates being in the public eye and making a fool of himself and so remains in the background, fighting his feelngs and emotions. How Grissom! The shyness is key to Darcy and Griss. Once Griss over came his, you can't stop him... Veggieburgers, anyone?

Need to disappear again. Got to ruin the lives of more students with bad grades... MWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Bye, everyone!

 

[forensicsgirl]

i was on such a high after "way to go" i aced my music test which was so hard. anyway. gsr.

I got 92% on my Spanish final and 93% on my English final. I attribute it to canon.

85% on my French test. Boo yah. I, too, attribute it to canon. You do not know how happy I was. I'm like, failing French. Right, GSR.

87% on Economics final. I was reading GSR fanfic instead of studying the night before. WORD!

I got a promotion at work at the beginning of the summer. Totally because of CANON! GSR is the bringer or all things good!

Jeez, we're all like the testimonials during an infomercial - GSR CAN CHANGE YOUR LIFE IN SO MANY GREAT WAYS. LISTEN TO ALL THESE WONDERFUL TRUE STORIES ABOUT HOW GSR TURNED PEOPLE'S LIVES AROUND...

britfan said:
But since Pride and Prejudice is being mentioned and I'm boring Y10 with it right now, I also thought I'd chuck in the social problems Darcy has. He is socially uncomfortable. He hates being in the public eye and making a fool of himself and so remains in the background, fighting his feelngs and emotions. How Grissom! The shyness is key to Darcy and Griss. Once Griss over came his, you can't stop him... Veggieburgers, anyone?

This is so totally right. Grissom had the fear. He's this extremely smart man, confident in the ways of science, but not so much in the ways of being social. He doesn't like being centre of attention - like when he told Warrick there wouldn't be a cake for him in the breakroom when he left. He'd just slip away, because he wouldn't want a fuss made over him.

He was, in part, afraid of being made a fool over his feelings about Sara. In part, his Butterflied speech was saying: "I can't put myself out there and accept her invitation to 'see where this goes' because I think she will leave me. I think she'll change her mind and go off with someone else when the novelty wears off, just like Debbie did, and then I be left looking like a fool"

But once he realizes that Sara isn't just casually interested in him, but she wants to be with him, that the feelings are real, he becomes so much more comfortable with the whole thing. He hasn't stammered or clammed up around her at all recently. And yes, veggie burger. Clearly, he's feeling much more secure these days.

PS: Pimp pimp. Chapter 15 of Retribution is up at ff.net and my site

 

[chocolate_bunnys]

GSR CAN CHANGE YOUR LIFE IN SO MANY GREAT WAYS. LISTEN TO ALL THESE WONDERFUL TRUE STORIES ABOUT HOW GSR TURNED PEOPLE'S LIVES AROUND...

LOL. It realy works! Really, I acceded my Math test(extremely rare). I am not particularly sure why I remember that. I guess cuz it is affiliated with WTG and GSR canon-ness. I also remember sitting on the couch smiling like a lunatic, my mom saying "guess they cant kill her off now" for which i bore holes in her head with me eyes for, and me jumping up and down in joy when i got up stairs and my parents thinking i was having a spasm or something.

This is so totally right. Grissom had the fear. He's this extremely smart man, confident in the ways of science, but not so much in the ways of being social. He doesn't like being centre of attention - like when he told Warrick there wouldn't be a cake for him in the breakroom when he left. He'd just slip away, because he wouldn't want a fuss made over him.

Yah, I agree, His relationship with Sara has changed him for the better but I think he still is and will always be "Grissom" more or less(more less at the moment than more(ok that made no sense what so ever))(hence me thinking that he hasn’t told Sara about the leave )but she has affected him to the point if something where to happen to her(powers above forbid) he would end up worse and more than hermit(of sorts) than he was before.

That is all.*realizes she is supposed to be doing laundry and runs off* (Shoot. I dont know how to do laundry.)

 

[forensicsgirl]

chocolate_bunnys said:
His relationship with Sara has changed him for the better but I think he still is and will always be "Grissom" more or less

Absolutely. He's more secure now, and the two of them being together has broken down some of their social barriers, but Grissom and Sara are essentially the same people as they always were. No relationship changes a person completely. Grissom still lives in his head, and he is still capable of withdrawing and needing time on his own. Sara knows this and accepts this - she might tease him for it, but she'd in no way damand he change. She knows exactly what Grissom is like and loves him - misanthropic ways and all.

Sadly, its a well known claus of Sods Law (which is the name i have given to 'Murphy's Law') - When one part of your life is going well, another part of your life starts to go badly. Grissom's personal life is great at the moment - he and Sara have clearly been happy this past year or so that they've been together. Grissom certainly had been cherrier. Then work starts taking it's toll. This model-making serial killer crawls out of the woodwork, clearly bent on taunting Grissom, and it starts causing problems for the Bugman. He starts getting migraines again. He becomes frustrated. Serial killers always tend to frustrate Grissom, especially when it takes a while to catch them. Remember Paul Millander? The Blue Paint Killer? It frustrates Grissom badly when he can't catch the bad guy quickly. He doesn't like to be outsmarted.