Grissom&Sara#21 - Cuz Dating Secretly is SO Much Cooler

[Adzix]

okey, first i need to answer the poll question.

i actually think that people would've been a lot more shocked with a Gum Drops scenario rather than with WTG. why? here is what i think.

firstly, GD would come out of nothing. what was before it? ABRTI? Bite Me? not much. not much if you look at TOYD, grey hair, and lots, lots of more scenes combined that came after.

secondly, it was a random ep. it wasn't a finale, when you expect shocking things to happen. it would be VERY all of a sudden.

thirdly, it could've been interpreted as a first night together (it'd more depend on how Jorja and Billy would've played it out, but still) or one of the first nights. and i think it would be equally shocking as WTG if not more. consider this: in WTG it was implied that they are together for long. if you are together for long with someone you just get a little used to it, it's not that new anymore and you behave as always around other people (which is what they where doing ... well except TOYD). BUT if the relationship is new, and furthermore - it's a secret (which is exciting), it's VERY hard to behave in a normal, indifferent way. what i'm trying to say, is that before Gum Drops there wasn't practically any change in their behavior, so revealing GSR in that ep would've been more shocking.

i realise that we actually don't have a moment that would clearly mark a beggining of their relationship (that is an excited-and-horny-couple kind of behavior), but we tend to say they got together right after Grave Danger, so what if they were excited and all during the break and calmed down when the season started?

to clarify my view on this - i voted for "other".

Come on. Grissom in a corset! You KNOW you wanna see it. You're thinking of it RIGHT NOW and drooling. I know Adz is.

okey that one is scary. like i mean it. it's even worse than your porcelain doll icon.

 

[sarahvma]

No. That's exactly what I meant. Come on. Grissom in a corset! You KNOW you wanna see it. You're thinking of it RIGHT NOW and drooling. I know Adz is. Beautiful icon, btw. Where could you possibly have found such a stunning example of beauty?

There... there... are... there are just no words.

I also agree. It would have been totally inappropriate for them to start making out on the bloody sheet. You'll note that for the personal convo, she stepped away from the sheet and it was no longer prominent in the background. Respect for the dead is a good thing, and it's nice to know that working around death all the time hasn't hardened them to a point of tactlessness.

Yeah. I think someone like Doc, who air guitars in the morgue, kind of has to accept dead bodies for what they are, but for Grissom and Sara, there's a reverence I think more for the families they have to deal with than perhaps the actual dead person.

Either way, I think at any point where the blood on the sheet was visible, they were strategically saying, "They're still in case mode". It's not till we go to the side shot where Grissom is sort of... tentatively placing his hands around Sara's waist that we realize he's... well, not in work mode anymore.

I must say I wish they had held that final face-to-face just a beat longer, though.

I'd love to see MC back on the show. I am hardcore GSR, but I think that LH really adds a dimension to the Grissom/Sara relationship that keeps things interesting. I wouldn't want to see him cheat, of course, but Heather has always been able to get him to open up.. maybe a scene where he tells her all about his love for Sara? I'd like them to find closure.

I don't necessarily know if I want it to be another character, but I agree that GSR can't be all puppies and rainbows now. There still needs to be something that keeps it interesting.

thirdly, it could've been interpreted as a first night together (it'd more depend on how Jorja and Billy would've played it out, but still) or one of the first nights.

Given that my interpretation of Bite Me was that they had not yet had sex (Sara's quick change of wording from sex to romance), I think Gum Drops was definitely supposed to come off as their first time. Otherwise, I don't even think Grissom would've bothered with an excuse. It would've just been.

Knock.

Sara opens.

GRISSOM: He's finally asleep

Sara opens the door further, he walks in.

 

[ziggystarduzt]

okey that one is scary. like i mean it. it's even worse than your porcelain doll icon.

Okay, I am SO making an icon of a corset wearing-man with Grissom's head photoshopped on now. You asked for it.

Yeah. I think someone like Doc, who air guitars in the morgue, kind of has to accept dead bodies for what they are, but for Grissom and Sara, there's a reverence I think more for the families they have to deal with than perhaps the actual dead person.

Well, and Grissom and Sara work with the victims' lives, their families, get to know who they were and what they were like. Doc just slices and dices and can afford (and probably benefits from) just seeing them as pieces of meat. Grissom and Sara are unable to distance themselves in that way, and it would be inappropriate for them to do so.

btw, Sarah, I was not in bed. I was at the liquor store. I had a sudden rejoicing of fallness and made shortbread and hot buttered rum. I love fall.

 

[Adzix]

Otherwise, I don't even think Grissom would've bothered with an excuse.

you know, i think it could've been also like this:
G: Hi.
S: Hi. *broad teasing smile* What are you doing? she's kinda surprised he comes to her room during a work related trip, but positively surprised
G: *playful tone* Greg snores.
S: *laughs* Oh, really? *lets him in*

maybe it was supposed to be teasing? THEN, i would've said that they already were together for some time.

I had a sudden rejoicing of fallness and made shortbread and hot buttered rum. I love fall.

i don't know how is that possible that you're consuming rum right now. cuz i'm freakin' eating rum cookies in this particular moment.

Okay, I am SO making an icon of a corset wearing-man with Grissom's head photoshopped on now. You asked for it.

my diagnosis - definitely too much rum. i think i'll have to get drunk tommorow before i go on this thread if you're gonna put it as your avatar.

 

[sarahvma]

Y'all. It's rum fate. RUM FATE.

lol.

Anyway - rum will eventually equal bed, so there.

And the corset? You are made of pure evil. And carbon. But mostly evil.

It really would've depended on how they played it, but to be honest, I liked the scenario they went with. I think it would've been all too easy to just re-create the scene by having Grissom show up on Sara's doorstep after a hard case.

As it is, I think it's better that we get the feeling that they're in a committed relationship, rather than wondering if it was just all a one-night stand because of a tough case.

 

[jordan]

I just had a thought...What if LH shows up in S7, uh-gain?? It could be good or bad. Good cuz it's LH, and she's actually kinda cool, but bad cuz she's LH and I think we all can say that we saw some mutual attraction between her and Grissom at one point or another. I think it would be very interesting if she showed up.

 

[greggoooo_fan]

Adzix said:

Otherwise, I don't even think Grissom would've bothered with an excuse.

you know, i think it could've been also like this:
G: Hi.
S: Hi. *broad teasing smile* What are you doing? she's kinda surprised he comes to her room during a work related trip, but positively surprised
G: *playful tone* Greg snores.
S: *laughs* Oh, really? *lets him in*

waha, adzix, that one is sooo funny!!!! :lol: :lol:
i also think it can go like this:

Knock..
S (opens door) Hey gris.. what are you doing here, aren't you supposed to sleep?
G: eh.. well.. Greg snores.. *flirtatious smile*
S: *big smile* Come in! *throws the door open*
S: (when grissom walks in) what if he wakes up when we are making.. noise..?
G: *looks at her with the 'I want you NOW' look* I will be veeeery quiet...
S: *looks back* okay, be quiet, but DON'T hold back...

 

[sarahvma]

I just had a thought...What if LH shows up in S7, uh-gain?? It could be good or bad. Good cuz it's LH, and she's actually kinda cool, but bad cuz she's LH and I think we all can say that we saw some mutual attraction between her and Grissom at one point or another. I think it would be very interesting if she showed up.

I think they will if they can. And that's really more what it is. But I also believe that the good news is that if they bring her back, there is no logical reason why this fourth time Sara would not meet her.

And to be frank, I think they know that if they did bring her back, a Sara/Lady Heather scene is probably what the audience would be most interested in seeing.

Mostly because so far Greg and Sara were the only ones to have not done so.

AND who's to say that she wasn't watching in the viewing room during any of Grissom's interrogations of her?

Reason to be jealous or not, I think that if most people had the opportunity to watch their boyfriend with an ex uninhibited, they probably would.

But I doubt that she did, and only because of the worry in her expression after Grissom says, "I have my sources".

That line also kind of opens up the idea that he's never mentioned LH to Sara, which means that Sara most likely heard everything second hand - which is rather dangerous.

And there's nothing I can say that won't be considered ship-bashing, no matter how light, so I'll just say this - I'm not concerned either way.

And leave it at that.

 

[Adzix]

the whole LH topic made me thinking, do they talk about their past relationships with each other? i mean, yeah, it's a delicate topic. and they both were involved with people who they connected with somehow through their job. Sara's Hank, and Grissom's LH (and a bit Terri and Sofia). Grissom can't have any pretenses to sara, but she can think of a couple of things about him. it was HIM who didn't want to be with her b/c of the job mainly (that's what i think she consideres as a primary reason after Butterflied), and now she finds out that he slept with a suspect during investigation before PWF.

...hmmmm ... i just had a thought, what if it was LHB that made Grissom to be more cautious in relationships? maybe he didn't want to risk anymore after how close it was for him to loose his job in LHB? i mean, if anybody found out about it (except Brass, he knew. i think that he might be the most oriented in Grissom's love life that anybody else, even Catherine. after all he also heard Butterflied speech) Grissom would be roasted.

before LHB he was dating a bunch of women, including LH and those who he worked with. after LHB though, he changed. i think that if Sara asked him for dinner earlier in the season, he would've accepted it. but then all the hearing stuff intensified, and he got pretty frustrated with dating. he dated a lot and nothing worked. the last thing that started to work, he just blew it. and for that time he didn't want to try anymore, he wanted to rest and socialize with his bugs. he grew a beard and stayed in his office, sometimes going to a crime scene.

and then one more thing. Sofia. i think he just once again wanted to feel how it is to go on a date. he missed it so he just invited a pretty girl who gave him signals that she likes him.

it probably didn't work, b/c of him. he realized that there is someone else who in not only attracted to him but has real feelings and knows him better. knows him VERY good. he didn't want to socialize i think. he was already friends with sara and he realized that he prefers to be with her. if he is about to be with someone he works with, sara's a better choice.

 

[Desertwind]

I haven't seen any "news' relating to Melinda Clarke coming back on-CSI, but one never knows- I think he was certainly attracted to her- who wasn't? but she turned him off in "PIRATES", and she was snippy as well-to him- but if they do- I'd love to see the interaction between her and Sara their so different- I can't even imagine the dialouge time will tell- if they made her a sweet offer and she said OK then here we go-

Spoiler: GSR eppy 3

in ep 3 Sara will allude to tell us about her meeting up with Grissom in the old San Francisco days-can't wait

 

[Fabian]

I would actually love to see Lady Heather again. I have always loved the interaction between her and Grissom. It just sucks that it was handled so poorly in 'Pirates'. It's like Grissom was talking to a normal suspect. There were no sparks at all. Her coming back just felt like a ratings-winner to me, because it actually made no sense with Grissom being with Sara. So, I hope that if she comes back, she'll actually has a purpose to the Grissom character. And yeah, she should defenitely have a scene with Sara.

 

[Jasmine]

Well i wouldnt mind having Lady Heather back, i like her. Funny, at the beginning when i was just a CSI fan not a shipper of any couple and watched "Slaves of Las Vegas" I could totally see their chemistry and attraction toward each other. I didnt really ship them since i didnt know no one at that time but i thought that they were a really odd couple. Him a nerd and she a dominatrix. I dont really think by bringing her back GSR will be in jeorpady. I think that they are going to bring her back though. I mean she has a lot of fans. I think i read in a interview about her that she said that she will like to come back. But this time can Sara and her meet please!?? I mean they made it so obvious that they dont want them interact since "Inside the Box" that now if she does come back and her and Sara dont have a scene together is just going to start rumors.

Spoiler: Desert

Yeah i think that ^ was a spoiler.

 

[sarahvma]

the whole LH topic made me thinking, do they talk about their past relationships with each other? i mean, yeah, it's a delicate topic. and they both were involved with people who they connected with somehow through their job. Sara's Hank, and Grissom's LH (and a bit Terri and Sofia). Grissom can't have any pretenses to sara, but she can think of a couple of things about him. it was HIM who didn't want to be with her b/c of the job mainly (that's what i think she consideres as a primary reason after Butterflied), and now she finds out that he slept with a suspect during investigation before PWF.

I think that there is no question that Grissom told Sara about his date with Sofia, or that Sara found out and they spoke about it. The reason? He looked way too guilty and caught off guard when she came into his office and found the two of them there. That little eye-dart thing was too "this isn't what you think this is" and then their final glares kind of seem like Sara saying, "Oh yeah?" and him responding, "We've talked about this".

But either way - I think the Sofia thing got around.

Lady Heather? No. Sara did not find out about Lady Heather from Grissom because it's her baiting him in Way to Go, trying to find out if he'll tell her more about it. Like I said, I think she got all of her info second-hand, which is dangerous, only because the more ears it goes through, the more underhanded and outrageous the rumor will become.

I think the Hank thing is probably water under the bridge for both of them, as is Teri. And Sara really got along with Teri, so I could see her sort of saying, "Yeah, she was really nice, I could see that". I mean, Teri was very supportive of Sara's issue with the skinned gorrilla, and at the time, Sara herself was flirting up a storm with Nick.

...hmmmm ... i just had a thought, what if it was LHB that made Grissom to be more cautious in relationships? maybe he didn't want to risk anymore after how close it was for him to loose his job in LHB? i mean, if anybody found out about it (except Brass, he knew. i think that he might be the most oriented in Grissom's love life that anybody else, even Catherine. after all he also heard Butterflied speech) Grissom would be roasted.

Maybe, maybe not. After all, in Burden of Proof, Catherine makes reference to the fact that she thinks Grissom has been burned in the past. Now, of course, this is just her guess. Maybe it was more of a mounting thing - first, the lab tech pretty much tells him his date was crap, Teri Miller drops him on his ass after one bad date, and he arrests his third, and she declares she can never trust him again.

Perhaps he should stick to dinner and a movie in the future.

But who knows? I think that what really happened was that life kind of mounted as well - the hearing thing showed him how close he was to losing everything that he considered his life to be. So he comes back from that, and it's not like he's desperate to go about changing everything he just worked his ass off to save.

So maybe that's what he's saying in Butterflied - he's not willing to risk everything that was SO important when he could have lost it, and as time goes on he realizes that the work wasn't his entire life and that before the hearing problems, people and relationships were there, too.

But I think he was just so work-driven at the time, so glad to be back on track, he didn't see much else. Which is why Sara invading his brain during a crime scene is such a shock.

and then one more thing. Sofia. i think he just once again wanted to feel how it is to go on a date. he missed it so he just invited a pretty girl who gave him signals that she likes him.

Perhaps we should also consider that he learned his lesson about how to keep a member of his team. Not a cold, "the lab needs you" but rather, "I would like you to stay". Unfortunately for US, it wasn't Sara who got the receiving end of that.

it probably didn't work, b/c of him. he realized that there is someone else who in not only attracted to him but has real feelings and knows him better. knows him VERY good. he didn't want to socialize i think. he was already friends with sara and he realized that he prefers to be with her. if he is about to be with someone he works with, sara's a better choice.

Or because at the time they didn't know if Louise would be staying. lol. But I know what you mean. I don't think, though, that it was a matter of a bad date/good date. Or even that it was a date at all. Perhaps what that really signalled was that he was giving social outings a try, at last.

In the opening of season 6, when Nick invited Grissom out for drinks, he does technically say, "yes, but I need to do something first".

Even Season 1 Grissom pretty much huddled in his office and waited for everyone to go home.

 

[csi_fan_uk]

Adzix said:
...hmmmm ... i just had a thought, what if it was LHB that made Grissom to be more cautious in relationships? maybe he didn't want to risk anymore after how close it was for him to loose his job in LHB?

I've often wondered that. He was dating before LHB and he really didn't much after LHB. However, although in Butterflied he claimed to be concerned for his job, I've often thought he was more concerned for his feelings. Despite what his coleagues often tell him, he does have them - he come's accross very Vulcan-like (except more interesting) at times - very suppressive of any emotions, preferring logic and all. But they are there and I think he was genuinely hurt by the whole LHB thing - I often think he didn't really understand waht he did wrong and that the confusion he experienced put him off even trying another relationship for some time. He hid behind his job and position and convinced himself that was his concern.

In any case, I'm also for Lady Heather turning up again. Preferably in a non-dramatic way. A Sara scene would be a must. I think it would be good for Sara as no matter what Gris has told her, it's very likely that the stand-out thing about her is that she's a dominatrix. And presuming she knows that Gris was "intimate" with her, she likely to be a little weirded out. Cos while our cute, nerdy Sara aint no prude she's also not hot on the uber-kinky stuff. If she actually met Lady H and had a conversation, I think she's instantly see Gris's attraction to her and understand it more because Lady H is very insightful and not what rumours (around the lab) might suggest.

PS: Ziggystarduzt - your icons are really cool and somewhat entertaining - but you already knew that

 

[sarahvma]

I've often wondered that. He was dating before LHB and he really didn't much after LHB. However, although in Butterflied he claimed to be concerned for his job, I've often thought he was more concerned for his feelings. Despite what his coleagues often tell him, he does have them - he come's accross very Vulcan-like (except more interesting) at times - very suppressive of any emotions, preferring logic and all. But they are there and I think he was genuinely hurt by the whole LHB thing - I often think he didn't really understand waht he did wrong and that the confusion he experienced put him off even trying another relationship for some time. He hid behind his job and position and convinced himself that was his concern.

I think that also he kind of assumed that he just didn't know how to balance work and a private life. After all, just about every one of his dates were ruined by work - even the "was it a date or an ear appointment" in that one episode in Season 3, the big GSR one where the kid gets run over, but he's really a stabbing victim.

Anyway - perhaps that's the other thing. So if he pisses off people he doesn't even work with with his working life, what would it be like to have to see someone every day, to work with them, AND to date them?

And I think that's where his logic ran out. He just kind of said, "Well, clearly a hundred times harder".

But his big fault was in his past potential "luvuhs" not understandy WHY he had to leave at a moment's notice. I mean, if anything, both he and Sara would be getting up in the middle of their date.

And yes, Sara can bring up stuff at work that's potentially embarassing, but it's more when she's frustrated that she doesn't understand what's going on with him personally.

So there it is - women outside of work don't understand Work Grissom, Sara doesn't understand out-of-work Grissom. Or didn't understand, because I think that's what the Grey Hair comment was - Sara knew precisely what he was so uptight about for most of that episode, and instead of saying, "I like you in spite of it" she's basically saying, "I partly like you because of it"