Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Anyway

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

I love Butterflied, it is one of the best episodes of CSI as ever (according to the critics too) and definitely the best Billy's performance in this show so far. We have never seen Grissom so overwhelmed by a case before, and this is the first time in which he confronts his feelings for Sara. The monolouge at the end is very intense.
I hope they'll bring back doc Lurie and they'll show his reaction in front of Sara ( because he didn't meet her in that ep). I'd like then to see Grissom becoming very concerned and protective with Sara.

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

Okay guys, so Fogi and I have been brainstorming on ways to keep us active and thinking for the rest of the summer, and we're pretty sure we've got something in the works... I'll let her introduce it to you when she gets back, but I bet you'll all find it as cool an idea as we did.

In the meantime, Start thinking about when you first can see Grissom and Sara getting together.. not necessarily when you think they DID get together.. just think about, considering the evidence, when you think it was first theoretically POSSIBLE that they were a couple... we'll reveal our motives soon!

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

Zig and I were chatting on MSN about CM's comments that she thinks Grissom & Sara were involved before she came to Vegas, and were discussing the possibilities that they were together at some point earlier in the series too.

Here's what CM said:

The "at least not initially" thing struck us, struck most of us as odd. Surely this suggests that they were involved at some point during seasons 1-5, and not just for this past year, or however long they've been dating...?

Although we, and most of the GSR-fandom, pooh-poohed the idea of a pre-Committed relationship, the more we talked, the most possibly it seemed to us. I'm not saying it happened, but if you interpret some of the evidence with fresh eyes...

So we thought it would be an interesting topic for us to discuss here. Starting with Sara's introduction in Crate N Burial (1:2) and working our way through the seasons, lets look at the evidence - looking for anything that might support a pre-Vegas relationship, and any indications where they might be involved/thinking about getting involved/etc, while in Vegas.

Pre-Vegas relationship theories, ponderings, retorical questions, et al are also welcome. Lets really get back into our old discursive ways, shall we?

edited to add - LOL Zig, great minds think alike :lol:

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

well, in season 4 there a lot of angsty moments....grissom visited her appartment (may i add) so it could have happened there, in season5 they seem to be more at ease with each other and thereis a lot less angst....in season 6 however there wasntmuch untill the final episode, so my bet is on season 4!

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

Yay! I'll just add that we're going to go one episode a day, so as not to run through this too quickly (we need something to keep us going until the new episodes start!)

First of all, assuming they were intimate in San Francisco, one needs to look at the nature of the relationship and how it ended- if it did at all. The first scenario I can conceive of is that it started off as a casual fling.. remember that in the very early days Grissom was a lot more laid back and flirty than he became in later seasons. I can completely believe that they first met, had a one night stand or a series of meaningless sexual encounters. This doesn't have to mean they didn't respect or harbour deeper feelings for each other.. perhaps they just were neither of them in a place to take it beyond what it was on the surface. So say that acting on that less base instinct, the nagging voice saying "this could be more", Grissom invites his lover to Las Vegas to come work with him... and eventually stay.

The second scenario I can conceive of is that they had a relationship over a period of several weeks or a couple of months perhaps while he was doing the whole seminar thing, and then one of two things happened: either when he moved/returned (we don't know how or when this happened) to Vegas, they ended things amicably, neither one wanting to commit to a long distance relationship. However, they stayed friendly through email and whatnot, the flame never completely extinguished, and he jumped at the first opportunity that arose to make into an excuse to have her with him again. However, when she got to Vegas he may have become unsure of the dynamics, how the relationship will work, how it may interfere with their jobs, and scaredy-Grissom didn't pursue the relationship immediately.

Second possibility dealing with a prior relationship is that it could just NOT have ended... maybe they DID decide to do the long distance thing. Perhaps they met up with each other on vacations, called each other nightly, chatted on webcam, and followed all the usual methods that couples apart use. Then, when they found an excuse to be together again, maybe one or both of them froze up and decided to cool down for a while.

Thoughts?

ETA: Fogs, did we post our into of the topic at the same time? :lol: it's true. Maybe you can be my new twin.

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

oh dear. now THAT is a topic. a river-long one. let me get my thoughts together. UM. okey i've got one. Grissom's reaction on Hank in Accused Is Entitled.

"are you dating this guy?" question was definitely with a lot of emotion. emotion of someone who could've been involved with the person he's talking to. if they weren't involved at all he's reaction would be calmer, and he definitely overreacted. oh yeah, that was Grissom overreacting. remember his reaction in a very similar Catherine and Adam Novak or Nick and the prostitude cases? he was just asking with no emotion in his voice (don't remember exactly how he reacted on Novak but i guess it wasn't that emotional) and here it wasn't about a murdered girl or a murder suspect but about a paramedic who moved a bra. this scene definitely revealed his feelings.

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

^I totally agree with everything you're saying, but we're gonna do this in order episode by episode, to kill us some time and fully analyse things Does the mighty Adz have any thoughts on the pilot?

PS: I really really really hate to admit this, but the picture on the right in your banner is sorta kinda sexy.. *hangs head in shame*

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

Woah, hold up there Adzix, you've skipped way ahead to season 3. Let's try and keep this fairly in order and work our way through the seasons.

And can I take a moment to kick myself? The episode in which Sara was introduced was, of course, NOT Crate N Burial. It was Cool Change. D'oh! Ahem... moving swiftly on so as not to draw attention to fogi's silliness...

First mention of Sara in the series is when Grissom tells the team that he's bring in some outside help.

GRISSOM:And as of now we're short of help. So, I'm
bringing in Sara Sidle to give us a hand.

CATHERINE WILLOWS: Sara Sidle?

WARRICK BROWN: Who's that?

GIL GRISSOM: She's a CSI out of San Francisco. She's a friend of mine, someone I trust. She's going to handle our internal investigation and I want to keep this in-house. I don't want I.A. Involved.

I just watched this episode at the weekend, and I couldn't help but wonder, again, if Catherine had heard of Sara before this moment. Because, and of course its all in interpretation, but it sort of sounded like the name was familiar and she was surprised that Grissom had called her. Sort of a:

"You're bringing in your ex-lover to help us out? Are you nuts?"

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

uh, uh, sorry 'bout that. i knew i was doing somethin' wrong.

the pilot or cool change? ok, let's say both. umm...he was flirty there, definitely. the tape me up scene (that's cool change, right?), the "i love my work" before, the whole first encounter, it was all filled with sexual tension. watching ONLY this episode and no next ones i'd say without any doubt that they could've been intimate in SF or even during this ep (!).

VICTORY! mission of my life is completed! did anyone hear that? ok, i'm gonna post it again:
ziggy said: (...) picture on the right in your banner is (...) sexy (...) .

i am proud.

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

On the poll NONE of those- WHY? been there done that-no point- move on to new characters- and on "Cool Change" they did seem extremly chummy- and glad to see on another-so possibly he did want her to be with him-again- and she sure came down fast no hesitation-

COOL CHANGE

GRISSOM-I don't even have to turn around-Sara Sidle

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

Totally desert. I love that first moment between them in the show. There's that great, lighthearted banter between them, when she teases him about his simulation dummies, and then the mood switches as the come to talk about Holly. Immediately, Sara's empathy kicks in, and Grissom allows his sorrow and uncertainty to shine through - its a moment of weakness he allows her to see.

"God Sara, I have so many unanswered whys"

On the surface, completely and totally in reference to Holly and her shooting - and Sara's reply keeps it that way. However, i have read a lot of speculation that asserts this line has two meanings. Grissom is talking about the case, but he's also talking about his and Sara's relationship. He still has so many unanswered "whys" as to what happened between them, why it happened, why it ended, where they go from here. i think it's an interesting idea, especially given what CM has said about their pre-Vegas relationship. What does everyone else think?

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

Wow. Just got hit by a sweet theory. What if Grissom and Sara were involved in San Fran, and Sara was the one to call it off because of long-distance relationship problems or cold feet or whatever? And later, maybe, she regretted her decision - before moving to Vegas? Just think of how many things it would explain or suggest....

---Sara's willingness to uproot her life and come to Vegas when Grissom called
---A double meaning in Grissom's "unanswered whys"
---Catherine's rather resentful and snarky attitude towards Sara in the first few episodes (c'mon, you know she would have pulled something out of Grissom about it....)
---Grissom's having "no personal life," emphasized near the beginning of Season 1
---Grissom's shell-shocked expression at "Do you want to sleep with me?": "Did you just say what I think you said?"
---The ease with which they fell back into old flirting patterns
---The angst that got introduced into the relationship at the "chalk" scene
---Catherine's "Whoa, you got burned bad" comment in Season 2 - maybe Sara is exactly who she was referring to? Which explains Grissom's reluctance to get personal with her in that episode, and Cath's explanation that, like it or not, Sara is now a part of their CSI family whatever their personal history and he has to deal with that
---Grissom knows she likes vegetation. Grissom knows she likes tea. How?
---Grissom's immediate "No" when Sara asks him out in Season 3, and why he follows it up with "I don't know what to do about this"

That's just for starters, and in keeping with Fogi's and Zig's edict, we should discuss these fully in their turn. But I'd really like to explore this theory as we go along. I think the single best thing I like about it is that, if Sara was the one to end things with Grissom pre-series, then Grissom's treatment of Sara during the series suddenly becomes a lot more understandable - the desire for control is not some abstract ideal, but a very real concrete way of keeping a woman who had hurt him in the past from hurting him again. Melikes that far more than ControllingPossessive!Grissom.

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

I always thought that maybe in San Francisco they had a one night stand or something like that. Or maybe they wanted to be in a relationship but since she was his student they knew it was againtst the school policies. In season 1 there is a whole bunch of sexual tension...like if they wanted to finish something they started in San Francisco...if you know what i mean :devil: especially in "Crate and Burial" the "tape me up" scene. They way they look at each other...and dont even get me started on "Unfriendly Skies"!.....(ok im going too fast i better leave now )

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

I cast my vote for Dr. Lurie - I mean, obviously his case was never settled legally, even if personally he did basically let us know what happened.

Did Dr. Lurie remind anyone else of Tim Robbins? Not important, anyway...

But yeah - I'd almost be interested if, say, Grissom has kept a file on it that she finds, or that it's clear that he hasn't let it drop and then he does check over it now and then, hoping to eventually nail the guy.

Plus, of course, there would be the added fun of him being able to say that he wasn't the same person if Lurie accuses him. Fun is the wrong word, but I'm tired from work, so...

 

Re: Grissom&Sara #20 - Who Cares? The Shirt's Coming Off Any

ok, grissom met sara in san fran ....he obviosly had a relationship with her or some kind of sexual activities, and this was against school rules...just like it is in the lab!, mabey they thought the danger was sexy and then when grissom moved they both realised there fling (as it were) was more than just casual sex or a bit of a relationship...it was love!.

when grissom got the first chance to get her back and begin the whole danger process again he took it and invited sara down to vegas.....showing he has contact with her somehow....were they still seeing each other, nobody knows we may never find out but just say they didnt. sara was so pleased to be moving to vegas with grissom that she thought it was going to work between the 2 again, i either think due to grissom realising he is in love...and scared to commit he thought he would stay cool with sara instead of getting involved with her again...but he realises when she arrives thats going to be harder than he thought!