Isn't there a theory about black holes and time?
See, everything can be blamed on the Black Hole of Continuity. Poor BHC, it gets no love.
Grade "Grounds for Deception"
- Thread starter Top41
- Start date
See, everything can be blamed on the Black Hole of Continuity. Poor BHC, it gets no love.
I may be wrong but I thought we were supposed to believe that the theme of the play and the theme of the episode were somewhat connected. At first I thought it could be Antigone because of the betrayal part. I love Greek mythology and tragedies, but I always forget which is which. Any thoughts?
Actually, I found her delivery slightly better than usual. Her tone is flat as always, but Anna seems less awkward for some reason. Maybe portraying a mother suits the actress better?
I didn't pay much attention to Anna, as Gary giggled throughout the whole scene. They do seem to enjoy working together.
ladyhunter
Head of the Swing Shift
I'm posting my thoughts quickly here
For Melina's first attempt.. MEH not so bad. For the actually delivery of the episode.... to me it was a mixture of yes, fanfiction and a bad soap opera. You know the ones.... A Very Special Episode sort of thing. :wtf:
I have to say, the first part was great. I love how Stella seems to be the only person who can stand up to Mac lately. And she is the only person he comes down hard on. Because obviously he didn't care about the stupidity of Danny and Lindsay bringing the baby into the lab.. AND ACTUALLY WORKING. (which sort of confirms my suspisions that Mac and Stella are doing it and Mac is now happy he's getting laid :lol It would have been one thing if they were 'out and about' and wanted to show her off, but come on... to have Danny running fingerprints... PLEASE
Melina PLEASE tell me you didn't write that part
In all respect, I can see where she wanted to go with the storyline. Stella finding out about her family and Mac coming after her. I can see how Melina wanted to put some story behind Stella's character and her somewhat obsession over the antiquities being stolen. I'll give her that. But the
rest of it just failed... and badly.
Mac and Stella running through a peach orchard...
Mac and Stella and the 'make shift' lab again... :wtf:
See and as much as I LOVE :adore: Mac and Stella, there is such as thing as 'overload' with these two and boy.. did we hit overload.
I have to say, the end was the best part for me. Finally we see them admitting they have feelings for each other. Too bad the rest of the episode was so lousy to have to get there.
Grade : D
For Melina's first attempt.. MEH not so bad. For the actually delivery of the episode.... to me it was a mixture of yes, fanfiction and a bad soap opera. You know the ones.... A Very Special Episode sort of thing. :wtf:
I have to say, the first part was great. I love how Stella seems to be the only person who can stand up to Mac lately. And she is the only person he comes down hard on. Because obviously he didn't care about the stupidity of Danny and Lindsay bringing the baby into the lab.. AND ACTUALLY WORKING. (which sort of confirms my suspisions that Mac and Stella are doing it and Mac is now happy he's getting laid :lol
It would have been one thing if they were 'out and about' and wanted to show her off, but come on... to have Danny running fingerprints... PLEASE Melina PLEASE tell me you didn't write that part
In all respect, I can see where she wanted to go with the storyline. Stella finding out about her family and Mac coming after her. I can see how Melina wanted to put some story behind Stella's character and her somewhat obsession over the antiquities being stolen. I'll give her that. But the
rest of it just failed... and badly.
Mac and Stella running through a peach orchard...
Mac and Stella and the 'make shift' lab again... :wtf:
See and as much as I LOVE :adore: Mac and Stella, there is such as thing as 'overload' with these two and boy.. did we hit overload.
I have to say, the end was the best part for me. Finally we see them admitting they have feelings for each other. Too bad the rest of the episode was so lousy to have to get there.
Grade : D
PerfectAnomaly
Resident Smart Ass
We've always known they have feelings for each other. They've been established as extremely close friends since S1.
Andie
Hit and Run
Well, let's see, I gave it a B-.
I think this episode was fairly enjoyable, but I guess there was so much hype to it that it in my opinion, it fell a little short. I did enjoy the fact that Mac and Stella went to Greece, though I almost found it to be too much like a wannabe action movie or something. I can't explain it but it seemed a little too much like a National Treasure type movie. But overall, it was a good storyline and kudos to Melina for writing it.
As for the DL moments, I kinda was suprised. I mean, the whole baby in the lab seemed a little too fluffy to me. I mean, is that even safe? It was cute to see Danny walking around with iher though.
Also, I enjoyed the small Flack/Angell reference. It was cute!
I think this episode was fairly enjoyable, but I guess there was so much hype to it that it in my opinion, it fell a little short. I did enjoy the fact that Mac and Stella went to Greece, though I almost found it to be too much like a wannabe action movie or something. I can't explain it but it seemed a little too much like a National Treasure type movie. But overall, it was a good storyline and kudos to Melina for writing it.
As for the DL moments, I kinda was suprised. I mean, the whole baby in the lab seemed a little too fluffy to me. I mean, is that even safe? It was cute to see Danny walking around with iher though.
Also, I enjoyed the small Flack/Angell reference. It was cute!
Ballettmaus
Hit and Run
You do some weird things when you are upset. I very recently completely shattered the glass of a picture frame as well. (accidentally though, I aimed for something else)
That I didn't understand. I mean, where was the point?
But the Do you speak English part - I was actually wondering if that show is aired in Greece and if so if they translate it and how they translate that. Is she going to ask if he speaks English and then just goes on in Greek or what?
But in general I did like the plot. The episode was rushed, like jumping from scene to scene becaus there were just 40+ minutes they had to squeeze everything in. I think they maybe should have considered leaving out one of the other episodes (and I sure do know which I would have left out) and made this a two-part-ep.
There were some great ideas in there, some great lines, great potential but there simply was no time.
And the Mac-Stella parts... well... loved them because I love the two of them but I think it made things difficult to go from there. Like going back to normal or giving either of them a boy/girlfriend any time soon or at all. Because come on, that was a little more than just close friendship and even though I think the producers/writers will do it, it sucks to ignore it and go "back to normal".
On a side note, I don't suppose the music would be available anywhere? Because that music they used right after the opening credits would be perfect for the choreography I still need a good piece for.
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I gave this episode a C because it didn't really make me feel anything. I'm just neutral about it, for the most part.
The only thing that really annoyed me was Danny's moment of jealousy over what's-his-face watching the baby. That was... ugh. I don't know, I didn't like that at all.
The only thing that really annoyed me was Danny's moment of jealousy over what's-his-face watching the baby. That was... ugh. I don't know, I didn't like that at all.
AppleJack
Police Officer
D
I'm glad t0 read I'm not the only who's not at all impressed. I expected something better. A few words that come to mind are ridiculous, predictable, boring and cliche. The storyline was meh, I just didn't buy it. I did like some Stella/Mac moments. But going after Stella to Greek? And they both got there really fast. The pace of this episode felt weird.
The best scene in this episode was the first one, those students performing that Greek play. It looked great, a beautiful opening scene.
I'm glad t0 read I'm not the only who's not at all impressed. I expected something better. A few words that come to mind are ridiculous, predictable, boring and cliche. The storyline was meh, I just didn't buy it. I did like some Stella/Mac moments. But going after Stella to Greek? And they both got there really fast. The pace of this episode felt weird.
The best scene in this episode was the first one, those students performing that Greek play. It looked great, a beautiful opening scene.
Ceindreadh
Pathologist
Because otherwise the viewers wouldn't have known we were in Greece!
It's the same reason that every location in Paris has a view of the Eiffel Tower, and you can see Big Ben from any street in London....at least on TV.
Lori K.
Pathologist
BIG A+ for Melina great effort Melina! It was refreshing to not have as more NY Blood and Gore and nice to get out of town for once! Since every fictional show needs abit of imagination to it I found it easier to overlook timelines etc and trying to cram alot of action into 43 minutes (minus commercials just check DVD times) is not an easy task. And since it does only go about 43 minutes and it takes what 13 hours to get to Greece? Its really just T.V. after all. I LOVED the Greek statues and the whole play thing. I'm glad they are finally unlocking the Mac and Stella relationship. There is great chemistry there why not use it? It would be a shame to wait like they did with CSI G/S so much possiable storylines. I thought the set was good so what if it wasnt Greece you got the picture. But I do not get where It was thought that Professor P was Stellas dad just because he loved her mother when she was struck and killed by a car does not mean he is responsible for the girl. Not alot of men would take that on, Heck some fathers dont. And speaking of that... It is good to see that Lucy will have one parent that wants to be around her What in the world was that:wtf: Lindsey was so enthralled with her job that she leaves her daughter in the other room with coworkers and slaps on a lab coat and announces the lab can't get along without her? If it was a joke why was she wearing the lab coat? It seems to me she believes it Danny is a very loving Daddy and he is cute but not inthe lab changing diapers. nothing wrong with bringing Lucy in for a visit but it looked like she was dumped off. I agree Jess should have been there and the only thing that makes since is Emmanuelle might have had other commitments,but she was much more apart of the storyline then Lindsey and Lucy! And the hiding of the Stella talking Greek I think was because I think Stella did not want them to know she knew what they were saying she is a detictive after all! No I will not be to hard on Melina for her first time she did swell and she had me in tears more than once! I respect everyones opinions and even get a chuckle out of La Guera, always entertaining:lol:...you might not want to sit down for awhile though.. Cant wait to purchase season 5!
) is not an easy task. And since it does only go about 43 minutes and it takes what 13 hours to get to Greece? Its really just T.V. after all. I LOVED the Greek statues and the whole play thing. I'm glad they are finally unlocking the Mac and Stella relationship. There is great chemistry there why not use it? It would be a shame to wait like they did with CSI G/S so much possiable storylines. I thought the set was good so what if it wasnt Greece you got the picture. But I do not get where It was thought that Professor P was Stellas dad just because he loved her mother when she was struck and killed by a car does not mean he is responsible for the girl. Not alot of men would take that on, Heck some fathers dont. And speaking of that... It is good to see that Lucy will have one parent that wants to be around her What in the world was that:wtf: Lindsey was so enthralled with her job that she leaves her daughter in the other room with coworkers and slaps on a lab coat and announces the lab can't get along without her? If it was a joke why was she wearing the lab coat? It seems to me she believes it Danny is a very loving Daddy and he is cute but not inthe lab changing diapers. nothing wrong with bringing Lucy in for a visit but it looked like she was dumped off. I agree Jess should have been there and the only thing that makes since is Emmanuelle might have had other commitments,but she was much more apart of the storyline then Lindsey and Lucy! And the hiding of the Stella talking Greek I think was because I think Stella did not want them to know she knew what they were saying she is a detictive after all! No I will not be to hard on Melina for her first time she did swell and she had me in tears more than once! I respect everyones opinions and even get a chuckle out of La Guera, always entertaining:lol:...you might not want to sit down for awhile though.. Cant wait to purchase season 5!
Ballettmaus
Hit and Run
Not sure where to ask that question but... when I thought about the episode last night I wondered why they didn't send Stella back to Greece? I mean, they knew her mother was from Greece but they kept her in the US and put her in an orphanage there? How does this make sense?
Wouldn't the authorities try to find relatives and even if not send her back to where she was born and not just grant a 2 year old child citizenship and put her in a system that I would think is somehow supported by federal money? (I mean, I don't know that but I don't think the foster care system is privately funded)
Besides, the father would search for his child where he would suspect the mother... So, does it make sense or was that bad research/complete fiction?
And wasn't Stella supposed to be half Italian as well? It's what her original character description reads... how come she ends up with an Italian name (last name anyway) when her mother was Greek and apparently was a single-mom (if not they should have been able to find the father at home where her mother was living waiting for his wife/girlfriend and baby to return).
In any way, it would lead me to the assumption that Stella's mother was at one point married to an Italian guy and kept his last name after he ran off or they divorced.
Like someone said in another thread they really have to get clear on that.
(and which is why even though I am not a professional writer my characters always end up having a full background/biography with birthplace, parents, family, birthday, age etc before I even start plotting the story )
(Although the biggest mystery for me will remain how Stella learnt to speak fluent Greek. You certainly don't remember from being two years old and not even having had a full vocabulary )
Wouldn't the authorities try to find relatives and even if not send her back to where she was born and not just grant a 2 year old child citizenship and put her in a system that I would think is somehow supported by federal money? (I mean, I don't know that but I don't think the foster care system is privately funded)
Besides, the father would search for his child where he would suspect the mother... So, does it make sense or was that bad research/complete fiction?
And wasn't Stella supposed to be half Italian as well? It's what her original character description reads... how come she ends up with an Italian name (last name anyway) when her mother was Greek and apparently was a single-mom (if not they should have been able to find the father at home where her mother was living waiting for his wife/girlfriend and baby to return).
In any way, it would lead me to the assumption that Stella's mother was at one point married to an Italian guy and kept his last name after he ran off or they divorced.
Like someone said in another thread they really have to get clear on that.
(and which is why even though I am not a professional writer my characters always end up having a full background/biography with birthplace, parents, family, birthday, age etc before I even start plotting the story
)(Although the biggest mystery for me will remain how Stella learnt to speak fluent Greek. You certainly don't remember from being two years old and not even having had a full vocabulary
)CSI Cupcake
Police Officer
Not sure where to ask that question but... when I thought about the episode last night I wondered why they didn't send Stella back to Greece? I mean, they knew her mother was from Greece but they kept her in the US and put her in an orphanage there? How does this make sense?
Wouldn't the authorities try to find relatives and even if not send her back to where she was born and not just grant a 2 year old child citizenship and put her in a system that I would think is somehow supported by federal money? (I mean, I don't know that but I don't think the foster care system is privately funded)
Besides, the father would search for his child where he would suspect the mother... So, does it make sense or was that bad research/complete fiction?
And wasn't Stella supposed to be half Italian as well? It's what her original character description reads... how come she ends up with an Italian name (last name anyway) when her mother was Greek and apparently was a single-mom (if not they should have been able to find the father at home where her mother was living waiting for his wife/girlfriend and baby to return).
In any way, it would lead me to the assumption that Stella's mother was at one point married to an Italian guy and kept his last name after he ran off or they divorced.
Like someone said in another thread they really have to get clear on that.
(and which is why even though I am not a professional writer my characters always end up having a full background/biography with birthplace, parents, family, birthday, age etc before I even start plotting the story
(Although the biggest mystery for me will remain how Stella learnt to speak fluent Greek. You certainly don't remember from being two years old and not even having had a full vocabulary
I feel your pain, Balletmaus. The back stories on the characters are a bit sketchy and you sometimes have to suspend disbelief to get through an episode.
As far as Stella learning Greek, she said she spent most of her childhood at St. Basils. I did not know this until just the other day, but St. Basils is a Greek Orthodox orphanage that really exists in NYC and has a school. Stella probably got lessons in Greek at the school growing up. And I'm quite sure that she was mentored by Prof. P. so her Greek got a lot of practice.
I gave this episode a C.
I can’t really say it was average because it was so different from the typical NY episode, but when weighing the good and the bad, I guess average sums up my overall reaction.
Like other posters, I really wanted to like this episode because MK wrote it. And I did like some things, but too many plotholes and contrivances kept it from rising above par. And the pacing was odd as well. The first part of the episode dragged; while the second part actually seemed rushed.
In all fairness, I sort of doubt all the ideas and scenes for this episode came solely from Melina. I would guess she received input from others and there are certain parameters she probably had to adhere to (e.g., characters’ screentime, storyline continuity) when crafting the script. For example, I’d be surprised to find out it was her idea to include the lab scenes with D/L and baby Lucy. That said, Melina is the credited writer for this one, so I guess she gets the criticism as well as any praise for it.
The Danny/Lindsay/Lucy scenes had me LOL. Most new parents I’ve known are reluctant to take very young infants into public places where they could come into contact with germs and sick people. Yet, Danny and Lindsay take their baby to a crime lab, which must be like a warehouse for all kinds of environmental and biological hazards. And then they leave her in a conference room with several adults cooing and pawing at her?
And I guess we know now why Mac was selected as godfather to little Lucy. This will give Danny and Lindsay leeway to do whatever they want parenting-wise in the lab, including turning it into Romper Room.
As for the Greek storyline, I think it had some good elements which , if handled differently, might have made a decent arc for Stella. As with other mini-arcs NY has done, however, this one really seemed to flounder at the end. After building some momentum with the Diakos/smuggling storyline, they seemed to veer into an entirely different direction in an attempt to make things more personal for Stella and connect the case to her background. And they tried to do most of this in a single episode, which made the whole thing seemed rushed.
While I was glad for Stella to get more background, as others have pointed out, this new version doesn’t sync well with the tidbits doled out previously. And the age thing is just flat out confusing. I thought Mac already had known Stella for ten years when the show started, so in season five, he would’ve known her for 14-15 years, which makes the idea of a 34-year old Stella seem ridiculous. I’m not even sure why they would want her to be that young. Given her role in the show, I think it works much better for her to be a bit older (late 30’s) than most of the other characters.
Re: resolution of the case, I agree that the professor’s death and what led up to it were pretty soapy. I was waiting for the “Luke, I am your father” moment too and was actually relieved when it didn’t come. And I won’t even comment on the silliness of Mac and Stella going after the professor and his brother alone and with only one gun.
Re: the Mac/Stella conflict storyline, I give it mixed reviews. As much as I like Stella, she was flat out wrong on this one, and I was expecting some type of significant consequence for her actions. But as soon as Mac uttered the words “suspension or desk assignment,” I sort of figured there wouldn’t be much of a consequence. And when Stella handed over her badge, I didn’t think she was actually resigning – just essentially putting herself on suspension, so I wasn’t really surprised when Mac just handed the badge back over to her. I guess her suspension time was served during the trip to Greece.
I did think the second Mac/Stella conflict at Kolovos’ crime scene worked well. Mac was incredibly angry – finger pointing, slapping the evidence bag against his hand – as he had every right to be, but surprisingly, I actually thought he sort of reined himself in at the end.
I also liked how they used the last scene to show Stella embracing part of her heritage while also reaffirming the closeness between Mac and Stella, which seemed to be missing earlier in the season. And there was even a bit of bashful/embarrassed Mac (reminiscent of season 1) when Stella made the comment about being glad he was in her life (or something like that). The last part of that scene was a little different…I don’t recall Stella talking to Mac quite that way before (woman in your life whom you sometimes adore?). For a minute there, I thought she was channeling Peyton, and the scene did make me wonder if the producers/writers are starting some sort of shift in the Mac/Stella dynamic. Guess tiime will tell….
To sum it up, I was glad to see Stella get some backstory, even if some of it was contradictory, and I always like seeing Mac and Stella together onscreen whether they’re fighting or being friends. Would’ve been nice if they had stronger material to work with, though.
I can’t really say it was average because it was so different from the typical NY episode, but when weighing the good and the bad, I guess average sums up my overall reaction.
Like other posters, I really wanted to like this episode because MK wrote it. And I did like some things, but too many plotholes and contrivances kept it from rising above par. And the pacing was odd as well. The first part of the episode dragged; while the second part actually seemed rushed.
In all fairness, I sort of doubt all the ideas and scenes for this episode came solely from Melina. I would guess she received input from others and there are certain parameters she probably had to adhere to (e.g., characters’ screentime, storyline continuity) when crafting the script. For example, I’d be surprised to find out it was her idea to include the lab scenes with D/L and baby Lucy. That said, Melina is the credited writer for this one, so I guess she gets the criticism as well as any praise for it.
The Danny/Lindsay/Lucy scenes had me LOL. Most new parents I’ve known are reluctant to take very young infants into public places where they could come into contact with germs and sick people. Yet, Danny and Lindsay take their baby to a crime lab, which must be like a warehouse for all kinds of environmental and biological hazards. And then they leave her in a conference room with several adults cooing and pawing at her?
And I guess we know now why Mac was selected as godfather to little Lucy. This will give Danny and Lindsay leeway to do whatever they want parenting-wise in the lab, including turning it into Romper Room.
As for the Greek storyline, I think it had some good elements which , if handled differently, might have made a decent arc for Stella. As with other mini-arcs NY has done, however, this one really seemed to flounder at the end. After building some momentum with the Diakos/smuggling storyline, they seemed to veer into an entirely different direction in an attempt to make things more personal for Stella and connect the case to her background. And they tried to do most of this in a single episode, which made the whole thing seemed rushed.
While I was glad for Stella to get more background, as others have pointed out, this new version doesn’t sync well with the tidbits doled out previously. And the age thing is just flat out confusing. I thought Mac already had known Stella for ten years when the show started, so in season five, he would’ve known her for 14-15 years, which makes the idea of a 34-year old Stella seem ridiculous. I’m not even sure why they would want her to be that young. Given her role in the show, I think it works much better for her to be a bit older (late 30’s) than most of the other characters.
Re: resolution of the case, I agree that the professor’s death and what led up to it were pretty soapy. I was waiting for the “Luke, I am your father” moment too and was actually relieved when it didn’t come. And I won’t even comment on the silliness of Mac and Stella going after the professor and his brother alone and with only one gun.
Re: the Mac/Stella conflict storyline, I give it mixed reviews. As much as I like Stella, she was flat out wrong on this one, and I was expecting some type of significant consequence for her actions. But as soon as Mac uttered the words “suspension or desk assignment,” I sort of figured there wouldn’t be much of a consequence. And when Stella handed over her badge, I didn’t think she was actually resigning – just essentially putting herself on suspension, so I wasn’t really surprised when Mac just handed the badge back over to her. I guess her suspension time was served during the trip to Greece.
I did think the second Mac/Stella conflict at Kolovos’ crime scene worked well. Mac was incredibly angry – finger pointing, slapping the evidence bag against his hand – as he had every right to be, but surprisingly, I actually thought he sort of reined himself in at the end.
I also liked how they used the last scene to show Stella embracing part of her heritage while also reaffirming the closeness between Mac and Stella, which seemed to be missing earlier in the season. And there was even a bit of bashful/embarrassed Mac (reminiscent of season 1) when Stella made the comment about being glad he was in her life (or something like that). The last part of that scene was a little different…I don’t recall Stella talking to Mac quite that way before (woman in your life whom you sometimes adore?). For a minute there, I thought she was channeling Peyton, and the scene did make me wonder if the producers/writers are starting some sort of shift in the Mac/Stella dynamic. Guess tiime will tell….
To sum it up, I was glad to see Stella get some backstory, even if some of it was contradictory, and I always like seeing Mac and Stella together onscreen whether they’re fighting or being friends. Would’ve been nice if they had stronger material to work with, though.