Grade "Grounds for Deception"

[Maya316]

I wouldn't say it was my least favourite episode of Season 5, but it wasn't that great. I think a lot of why I didn't like it had to do with the pacing of it - with everything they just crammed into this one episode, I feel like I didn't get the full impact of the things I was supposed to get.

Originally Posted by Curiosity
Overall, I thought that first confrontation was rather odd. The emotion was there, but the dialogue was a bit clunky and didn’t really fit with what had happened in previous episodes.

Mac found out about Stella being the informant from NYPD Communications? How did that happen? Did they do some type of voiceprint analysis, or did Stella make the call from her mobile, which they were able to trace?

The thing is, I think the first confrontation was supposed to be a flashback (that's the one where Stella was told she was being put on desk assignment?). Which is why they should've put it in an earlier episode, so we could've gotten a better sense of how tense things were between Stella and Mac. Maybe it should've gone at the end of Greater Good, or Yarzheit.

I don't think NYPD has voiceprint analysis, nor do I think Stella made the call from her mobile...but it's entirely likely that Mac (since he was running the investigation) went over to NYPD Communications to listen to the informant's call (since presumably, said informant wasn't at the scene when Diakos was found). And then he recognized Stella's voice.

Originally Posted by lisasimpson:

Originally Posted by Curiosity:
I was a bit disappointed with the resolution of the conflict between Mac and Stella, though. Seems like they spent time this season building up to what could’ve been a significant rift only to sort of gloss over it in the end. The scene where Stella apologizes to Mac as they are walking in the square is another one for which I thought the dialogue was inadequate. Stella apologizes for making things difficult for Mac and the department; Mac says it’s difficult because he cares about her; and Stella says “Thank you.”

that "thank you" really bothered me too - that's not the right thing to say anyway but even if it was it just seemed a bit odd. i kind of wish they'd gone down the rift route too - much as i enjoyed seeing mac and stella get a bit closer, it would've been almost more interesting to have a rift that maybe continued into the next ep and even beyond, it would've made for a different atmosphere to the show which could've been interesting. right now i think there's very little they can do with them other than pursue smack.

I think the Stella/Mac conflict and resolution was glossed over because of everything else they were trying to fit into this episode. Again with the pacing. What with trying to highlight how strong Stella's relationship with the Professor was, and the artifact-smuggling ring, plus Stella/Mac, it kind of turned into this huge jumbled mess.

I think Stella's "thank you" would've gone over better had we actually seen her making things difficult for Mac and the department. Like if we'd seen her being pulled off cases in earlier episodes, or assigned to a desk while everyone else worked. Had they spaced out both Mac and Stella's rift and Stella's relationship with the Professor (we should've at least gotten more than the little bit we had in Point of No Return), then I think the impact of Stella and Mac's resolution would've meant more. As would the fact that the Professor took a bullet for Stella (which was sweet, but I didn't care as much as I think I should have, mostly because we barely knew who this Professor was, let alone his relation to Stella).

 

[talkingtocactus]

^ i agree - i enjoyed the ep but overall it fell down on the fact that it tried to do too much in too short a time scale. as you said, if we'd seen snippets over the previous few episodes of mac looking into who made the call, stella being told off and going on with it anyway etc, it would've worked better. as it was, it looked like it was going to be a decent arc, then stella & angell put the guy in the container, and then it seemed like everyone forgot about the greek smugglers for a few weeks, and then there was suddenly this massive fight between her and mac and all that stuff we saw. it would've been nice to have just a little bit of info on how the thing progressed - ie maybe one scene in a slightly earlier ep to show mac discovering it was stella, and another to show stella breaking some rules and being desk-assigned. you're right, it did feel very rushed and all squashed in at the end!

 

[Ghawazee]

Maya, hi!!

I wouldn't say it was my least favourite episode of Season 5, but it wasn't that great. I think a lot of why I didn't like it had to do with the pacing of it - with everything they just crammed into this one episode, I feel like I didn't get the full impact of the things I was supposed to get.

Probably because you are not a Smacked fan . Believe me , we have been enjoying every single tiny interaction between them and always it's a little jewel the way they act towards each other. It's not something we have created in our minds but something was showed and many people took it as natural.GFD is so personal and so unique because it emphasized those previous scenes between them all these past years. At least that's the way Melina understood how their relationship is

I think the Stella/Mac conflict and resolution was glossed over because of everything else they were trying to fit into this episode. Again with the pacing. What with trying to highlight how strong Stella's relationship with the Professor was, and the artifact-smuggling ring, plus Stella/Mac, it kind of turned into this huge jumbled mess.

i think Melina wasn't responsible for that. I bet the original storyline had more scenes but you know not all scenes are part of the final result then they had to choose between a Indiana Jones/CSI episode or a character-wise episode and finally won the personal stuff

I don't think NYPD has voiceprint analysis, nor do I think Stella made the call from her mobile...but it's entirely likely that Mac (since he was running the investigation) went over to NYPD Communications to listen to the informant's call (since presumably, said informant wasn't at the scene when Diakos was found). And then he recognized Stella's voice.

probably since she was hoping to run the investigation she didn't expect anybody else investigate the case but the call was already made when Mac told her HE was going to be in charge of the case
In any case Stella told Angell she was going to say everything to Mac. And she did want it if you think how Stella was at the end of 5.18. It was very obvious she wanted to confess evrything but she didn't know how to start
Also not hiding or doing any trick to hide who the caller was it's a proof Stella did want to confess the truth sooner or later

 

[Miss Doolittle]

Hi, Ghawazee! I've been reading your posts in this tread and I do admire your passion on Smacked. I'm not a shipper of any kind and any couple but your point of view on Stella and Mac is certainly interesting. And if the way we saw in 5.24 is what Melina's thinking about their relationship, then I think there's possibility that one day your dreams will come true.

I don't think NYPD has voiceprint analysis, nor do I think Stella made the call from her mobile...but it's entirely likely that Mac (since he was running the investigation) went over to NYPD Communications to listen to the informant's call (since presumably, said informant wasn't at the scene when Diakos was found). And then he recognized Stella's voice.

probably since she was hoping to run the investigation she didn't expect anybody else investigate the case but the call was already made when Mac told her HE was going to be in charge of the case
In any case Stella told Angell she was going to say everything to Mac. And she did want it if you think how Stella was at the end of 5.18. It was very obvious she wanted to confess evrything but she didn't know how to start
Also not hiding or doing any trick to hide who the caller was it's a proof Stella did want to confess the truth sooner or later

Maybe Mac just guessed that after he knew Stella was involved. I think it's not necessarily through voiceprint analysis. But I'm not sure.


Of course Stella knew that other teams(most likely, major case) were investigating Diakos. Mac himself said that and also said she need to back off. I think she wanted to investigate on her own out of pure curiosity. And I don't remember Stella told Angell she was going to say to Mac. Maybe I need to see the episode again. In any case, the scene Stella telling Mac that she was sorry was sloppy. The way the tension between them dissipated all at once was not that convincing, IMO.

Actually I really enjoyed this ep. Gives me a whole different view on Stella and Mac's relationship. So B.

 

[Ghawazee]

Miss Doolitle---> thanks for your kind words

And if the way we saw in 5.24 is what Melina's thinking about their relationship, then I think there's possibility that one day your dreams will come true.

except for things (maybe) she was asked to add, i guess she was pretty faithful with Mac and Stella. Some months ago she said her fav scene from S4 was that one from RND "The hug" scene. The way she talked about it, it quite similar to the way she wrote Mac and Stella in GFD. And i hope your words will become true. I would love their relationship finally became into something more. Melina and Gary's chemistry is amazing on and off screen

Of course Stella knew that other teams(most likely, major case) were investigating Diakos. Mac himself said that and also said she need to back off. I think she wanted to investigate on her own out of pure curiosity. And I don't remember Stella told Angell she was going to say to Mac. Maybe I need to see the episode again. In any case, the scene Stella telling Mac that she was sorry was sloppy. The way the tension between them dissipated all at once was not that convincing, IMO.

blame me and my terrible memory. I have watched only one time 5.18. Now i remember another team was investigating. So could have been they who let him know Stella made the phone call?

And regarding Stell and Angell, didn't Stella say that when both, were inside the car in 5.18 (when Angell discovered Stella's situation)???

 

[Miss Doolittle]

And regarding Stell and Angell, didn't Stella say that when both, were inside the car in 5.18 (when Angell discovered Stella's situation)???

I just rewatched 5.18 and Stella didn't say to Angell she's going to confess Mac. She said 'Mac doesn't know. He can't.'

But now I have an idea that Mac really couldn't blame Stella for her action because he did the same thing before. - in 333 case and when he flew to Chicago, he also didn't tell anyone what's going on and tried to confront his issue alone. I still don't like the 'I'm sorry' scene in 5.24 but it's good to see them supporting each other in any circumstances.

 

[Maya316]

Originally Posted by Ghawazee:
Maya, hi!!

Hi! Nice to meet you

Probably because you are not a Smacked fan . Believe me , we have been enjoying every single tiny interaction between them and always it's a little jewel the way they act towards each other. It's not something we have created in our minds but something was showed and many people took it as natural.GFD is so personal and so unique because it emphasized those previous scenes between them all these past years. At least that's the way Melina understood how their relationship is

I'm not a Smacked fan, no. It's not really anything against Mac/Stella, though, I've found I kind of dislike all the "canon" pairings I've seen on the CSI shows, and especially CSI NY. I'm not much for Smacked, loathed Flack/Angell, do not get me started on D/L. But I did like the way Mac was so obviously caring for Stella, cutting rules and making exceptions for her everywhere just because he did care. And the way Stella let herself be so open with him, in a way she usually isn't with the rest of the team. If anything, I chalked it up to a testament of how strong their friendship was. But I just wasn't as impacted by those moments as I think I could have been, had we actually seen buildup to said moments in their conflict beforehand. I think I would've liked it more if we'd seen Stella and Mac fighting/being at odds with each other for longer than three minutes (screentime-wise).

i think Melina wasn't responsible for that. I bet the original storyline had more scenes but you know not all scenes are part of the final result then they had to choose between a Indiana Jones/CSI episode or a character-wise episode and finally won the personal stuff

Oh, I don't blame Melina for that, either. But I do think that, if they were going to go with personal-character-stuff over just action, they could've accomodated for the storyline better in the episodes leading up to GfD. Maybe a quick, 1-minute scene in Communication Breakdown where Mac discovered it was Stella who made the call in about Diakos. Or a 5-minutes-in-total scene in Yarzheit where we see Mac argue with Stella about what she did, and assign her to a desk, or suspend her. Or even a three-second scene where Stella calls up the Professor just to tell him how her day went, to show us exactly how close/paternal their relationship was. I mean, with the Frankie-storyline in Season 2, a large part of its effectiveness I think came from the fact that we'd seen the slow "progress" of Frankie/Stella throughout Season 2. I know Melina wrote the episode, but clearly the other writers had some say in the buildup leading up to it (the coin-smuggling part of the story was built up fine). I just think they should've built up the personal part of the storyline, too. Or, ideally, it could have been a two-hour episode.

probably since she was hoping to run the investigation she didn't expect anybody else investigate the case but the call was already made when Mac told her HE was going to be in charge of the case
In any case Stella told Angell she was going to say everything to Mac. And she did want it if you think how Stella was at the end of 5.18. It was very obvious she wanted to confess evrything but she didn't know how to start
Also not hiding or doing any trick to hide who the caller was it's a proof Stella did want to confess the truth sooner or later

Originally Posted by Miss_Doolittle:

Originally Posted by Ghawazee
Quote:
I don't think NYPD has voiceprint analysis, nor do I think Stella made the call from her mobile...but it's entirely likely that Mac (since he was running the investigation) went over to NYPD Communications to listen to the informant's call (since presumably, said informant wasn't at the scene when Diakos was found). And then he recognized Stella's voice.

probably since she was hoping to run the investigation she didn't expect anybody else investigate the case but the call was already made when Mac told her HE was going to be in charge of the case
In any case Stella told Angell she was going to say everything to Mac. And she did want it if you think how Stella was at the end of 5.18. It was very obvious she wanted to confess evrything but she didn't know how to start
Also not hiding or doing any trick to hide who the caller was it's a proof Stella did want to confess the truth sooner or later

Maybe Mac just guessed that after he knew Stella was involved. I think it's not necessarily through voiceprint analysis. But I'm not sure.

I don't think Stella made the call with the intent of hiding her involvement from Mac, personally, either. She did seem like she was going to confess in PoNR (did she tell Angell that she would? It seemed more like the urge to confess just kind of sprang up on her in Mac's office, after he told her he was going to run the case because he cared about her).

But yes, I do think she at least partly tried to hide who the caller was. I don't think she would've made the call from her cellphone. It wouldn't have been Mac trying to trace the call, it would've been some random officers from NYPD Communications. It's one thing to let Mac know what she'd been up to, it would've been entirely a different thing for half the NYPD precinct to find out.

Originally Posted by Ghawazee:
And regarding Stell and Angell, didn't Stella say that when both, were inside the car in 5.18 (when Angell discovered Stella's situation)???

I totally have to watch this episode again. I remember Mac coming up during that scene, but I thought Stella was more implying that she'd tell Mac everything, once the investigation was over (as in, once she'd already broken rules, but at least put Diakos behind bars). I have to check!

 

[talkingtocactus]

But I do think that, if they were going to go with personal-character-stuff over just action, they could've accomodated for the storyline better in the episodes leading up to GfD. Maybe a quick, 1-minute scene in Communication Breakdown where Mac discovered it was Stella who made the call in about Diakos. Or a 5-minutes-in-total scene in Yarzheit where we see Mac argue with Stella about what she did, and assign her to a desk, or suspend her. Or even a three-second scene where Stella calls up the Professor just to tell him how her day went, to show us exactly how close/paternal their relationship was. I mean, with the Frankie-storyline in Season 2, a large part of its effectiveness I think came from the fact that we'd seen the slow "progress" of Frankie/Stella throughout Season 2. I know Melina wrote the episode, but clearly the other writers had some say in the buildup leading up to it (the coin-smuggling part of the story was built up fine). I just think they should've built up the personal part of the storyline, too. Or, ideally, it could have been a two-hour episode.

absolutely couldn't agree more! i can't remember what stella told angell, but i think you're right, i think she did say mac couldn't know but that she also at least hinted that she'd tell him once it was done and dusted.

about the discovery of her making the call - even if it was random NYPD bods who found out and then told mac discreetly (which would make sense), we went from finding out he knew, to him telling her he knew, to them arguing and then making up in about 10 seconds flat! but again, this is a timing thing - they should've built that whole thing up a bit more slowly.

 

[danny-lindsay4e]

i gave it a B it was ok i guess i mean i've seen worse but it kind of just ran along i wasn't stuck to my seat watching it (like normally) i found it easy to potter around cleaning and putting things away it didn't keep my attention.

i thought seeing the baby was sweet but she could have popped in had a coffee why have her in the sling going round the lab?
"God of fertility" was cute abit over the top with him banging on the glass it was abit caveman on the "blake" dude x

 

[Remke79]

i say its super good

i love this episode its one of my faves

i love SMacked scenes( i am a SMacked Lover what more can i say LOL)

and we know finally more about Stella's past.