Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do Without Her?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

Oh, Catherine, there will always be those who complain loudly when an episode is Marg-heavy.
The thing is, if what the spoilers are hinting at come true, those who dislike "Cath drama" will be in for a rough time. TMTB will seemingly be trying to assuage Marg fans upset at the direction the show will definitely be going, by giving us mega Cath drama. In fact, they are talking of going as far as to kill off Sam Braun!
In terms of drama intensity and Cath-centred storylines, Weeping Willows will pale in comparison. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

As coolc said, Weepeing Willows wasn't about the case. It was a great character study. And despite all the Cath!drama we saw in the episode, it was in fact more about Gil. I'm not sure it was too "condensed" on Cath's private life because all we saw was she went out for a drink after work. We don't even know if she did it often or just once in a while. The rest of the episode was actually case-related while focused on the characters of Catherine and Gil. It's ridiculous to call it condensed on Cath's private life just because it's a Cath-heavy episode. Oh well, maybe some of the viewers just don't want to see her face on the screen. *shurgs*

Dang. coolc is too busy to post at the moment. She'd post something much more meaningful than what I just wrote. LOL. We love you, coolc. Good luck with the show hun! *hugs*

I completely agree with you, ren. Those who dislike Cath are probably going to have a hard time watching the show if the spoilers are true. Heck, even I am going to have a hard time. I love Cath, but they really don't need to do that to her to keep fans like me. If they think they are throwing us a bone by having stuff like what the spoilers are hinting at, then they are terribly wrong.

*braces self for upcoming Cath bashing*
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

Yup, it's the least we can say, Ren ! it's even a little too much :rolleyes:
And I agree with you too, Erica . On one side they wanna do a soapish story with Gil and Sara and on the other side, try to maintain ratings with Cath's drama but it's not necessary to push the things so far ! but they're going to disappoint the non-fans Marg (because they gonna say that we see her too much) and the real Marg's fans cuz they don't want to see their fav character going through all those troubles .
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

EricaSJ said:
^ LOL Tracey. How about we start from the start? ;)
LOL! Good one, E! There's nothing like starting my day with a profound statement like that!! :lol:

Anyway...just a short comment for 4x4 -
The only scene I remember is Cath giving Nick the roster of names for Butterfield Academy. The scene is of note because we get more back story to what Cath actually did with Sam's money, and that she's trying hard to find a way to help Lindsey with her "attitude adjustment".

Now - Weeping Willows. You know, as much as I like this episode, I dislike it just as much. I guess I'm not a real big fan of Cath or CG angst. On another side-note (sorry), in listening to Marg's commentary, I wish she would have given more insight on various aspects. She & the director (Ken Fink?) were mainly focussed on the case & the performance. I wish they would have bantered more on working with some of the others, more of the off-screen stuff, etc. the way some of the others do. But...oh well. It was still great to hear Marg in the commentary nonetheless.

Where was I? Oh yeah. WW: Sit back in preparation for a long one.

* --out for a drink?--
*sniffle* the boys won't go out with her for a drink

* --dark & mysterious--
ADAM NOVAK: No way you were never married. Oh, let me guess. You were young, he seemed more mature than he really was, he swept you off your feet, and, uh, he let you fall.
CATH: Bruised, but not broken.
BARTENDER: Get you another one?
CATH: No, I'm good, thanks.
ADAM NOVAK: So you're divorced?
CATH: (nods) You?
ADAM NOVAK: Yeah. She seemed more mature than she really was; swept me off my feet....Kids?
CATH: Uh, yes, I have a daughter.
ADAM NOVAK: If she's got her mother's looks, you're in trouble.
CATH: If I don't get home soon, I will be in trouble.

I totally see Cath's dilemma here. How much does she tell him about herself upon just meeting the guy. He seems harmless (so far).

* --the parking lot--
Sorry, but I can't watch this without thinking of Marg & Alan and not Cath/Adam. So funny when she tells him to "go to hell". I wonder how many takes before they got it right? ;)

* --phone call--
Gil calls. Cath comes running! (She could have made some excuse, you know) Before this split shift, you never saw any other shifts helping the other out. The first would have been Sofia in formalities.

* --we meet mom--
CATH: (whispers) Mom, Mom. Grissom just called. I've got to go in. I'm backing up grave.
LILY FLYNN: What? Vodka, with an Altoid chaser.
CATH: I brushed my teeth.
LILY FLYNN: What did you do, walk into a door?
CATH: Hey, listen, Lindsey's got a dentist appointment before school. I wrote all the information down in the kitchen.
LILY FLYNN: Okay.
CATH: Okay? Thank you.
LILY FLYNN: Oh, good grief, girl.

I like this scene, not just because we meet "mom", but also because you see a bit of backstory here as well - Lily's "walk into a door" and "vodka/altoid" lines seem to convey that she's seen Cath like this numerous times (Eddie, of course)

* --Cath arrives--
GRISSOM: I appreciate this. Everyone's out. I'm short.
CATH: You're welcome.

Awwwwwwwwww! Billy sounds like he's got a very bad cold.

* --continued--
GRISSOM: What happened to you?
CATH: I walked into a door. Can we not talk about it?

As with mom, you see Gil not really believing her story, and acting like "seen it many times before" - but you know, it was actually quite true...she did walk into a door.

* -- back at the bar--
You know, I really didn't like the slow-mo shots with Cath throughout this episode. I know we're looking through Cath's eyes on these, but still it felt weird. Cath's thinking "is he still going to be here?"

* --Cath vs the bartender--
The bartender gets the hint right away from Cath not to mention her earlier arrival. I believe Marg said in the commentary that this was Julia Louis Dreyfuss' sister, and if I remember, Marg roomed with her (Julia?) in college or something?

* --Cath/Sara--
SARA: So, Judge Wilson tells me I'd have better luck with a blue suit than a gray suit. What is that? Do you think he meant that? Do you think he was flirting with me or ... ?
CATH: I thought judges were supposed to be color blind.
SARA: Yeah, right. That's cute.
CATH: I found some particulate on the jacket. Not sure what it is. I'll get it to Hodges.
SARA: Pocket contents: Credit card, car keys, lipstick and one matchbook.
CATH: Can I see that?
SARA: There's no name, just a phone number.I'll have Vartann run it down.
CATHERINE: You know, I've got to go pick up Lindsey. Could you cover for me?
SARA: Sure.
CATH: Thanks.
SARA: Tell her I said, "hey."

I believe this is the first scene the two have had together (one-on-one) since "the incident". I really feel gipped that we missed out on a "make up" scene between the two. I like how Sara says "hi" to Lindsey. It shows that they all do know each other well away from work.

* --A LINDSEY sighting!!--
CATH: Lindsey!
LINDSEY: Yeah.
CATH: What happened to the trash?
LINDSEY: I took it out, like you always tell me to. It's Thursday.... Uh, hello, Mom, you okay?
CATH: Yeah, I'm great.

Well, we seem to find out that Butterfield Academy is doing wonders for Lindsey. Now if only we could see the two of them get along - like the early seasons.

* --Cath/mom round 2--
CATH: Can't get into this now, Mother. I'm in a jam.
LILY: You haven't seen your daughter all week.
CATH: Save the sermon.
LILY: I was a working mother too, you know?
CATH: but for the grace of God ...
LILY: Don't just assume that my time means nothing to me.
CATH: Damn it.
LILY: Catherine?
CATH: I threw something away. It's gone.
LILY: You're throwing more than you know away.
CATHERINE: (to phone) Yeah? Uh ... yeah, just wait till I get there. Yeah. ...... Mom ...
LILY: Go. Go. I'll be here when you get back.

Finally, we see Cath torn in so many ways, not just from the work side.

* --Hodges vs Gil--
HODGES: Results from Alice Granger's jacket. Found trace elements of iron, chromium, manganese and carbon.
GRISSOM: Metals.
HODGES: More specific, automotive sheet metal. The metallic balls would've been released into the air during the welding process.
GRISSOM: So you're saying our killer has metal balls?
HODGES: Yes ... maybe.

I swear everything Hodges says comes out in a sexual nature. It's fun to see Gil play along this time. sort of.

* --PureJoy via phone--
CATHERINE: Gil, the suspect has a laptop in his vehicle that has a GPS unit that's honed in on the lab.
GRISSOM: Well, you can't track a static location. It has to be something mobile.
CATH: I know. That's why I'm calling.

At least she didn't roll her eyes with that last comment!

* --she tries to tell him--
CATH: Do you have a minute?
GRISSOM: I got a problem in DNA.
CATH: Okay, uh, it really is only gonna take a minute. Um, I just need to have a conversation with you.
GRISSOM: First things first.

I think in previous seasons - before the split- Gil would have taken a few seconds to actually listen to her instead of blow her off here. I believe because of some of their recent blow-ups, he doesn't give her the chance here.

* --standing up and taking the heat--
ADAM NOVAK: I was deposing a witness. Left the office late. Stopped at the Peppermill for a burger. Medium rare. No onions. Got to the Highball around 11:00. Met this redhead. Bought her a drink and ...
(Cath enters)
CATH: Mr. Novak ... I'm Catherine Willows, CSI.
ADAM NOVAK: You want to know what happened next? Ask the redhead.

The look of Gil & Vartann is kind of funny if it weren't for the fact that it was at Cath's expense.

* --not lying--
GRISSOM: What else should we ask him, Catherine?
CATH: This is what I was trying to tell you.
GRISSOM: Yeah, but you didn't, so now I'm way behind. Is he telling the truth?
CATH: He's not lying about anything that pertains to me.

For some reason that last comment from Cath always sticks in my mind. I'm glad Gil didn't comment on that, but instead shows his concern (finally)

GRISSOM: He hit you.
CATH: No, it was an accident. But ... by the time it happened, he wasn't who I thought he was, and ... that scared me.

Up to that last comment, I see Gil thinking that Cath was still lying about being hit. I hope he realized from the last comment that she was actually being truthful to him.

* --glass houses--
GRISSOM: You have to recuse yourself from processing evidence. This guy's a lawyer. He could claim prejudicial treatment. Your whole life will become public record.
CATH: I have nothing to be ashamed of.
GRISSOM: We all live in glass houses, Catherine. You gotta be careful where you take your shower.
(Brass steps into the hallway)
BRASS: Catherine.

The first thing that confused me here is the way Brass says her name. I can't tell if he's pissed because of the mess she's gotten into, or if it's just a cordial greeting, because he doesn't really look at her. Secondly, the Cath/Gil convo I see here is in direct contrast to previous times where Cath is always warning Gil about being more "political". In this instance, Cath doesn't really see the consequences that could happen - even though she really did nothing wrong.

* --Cath/Ecklie--
CONRAD: Just walk me through your interaction with the suspect.
CATH: I met Adam Novak in a bar called the Highball.
CONRAD: Were you drinking?
CATH: I had one cocktail, on his tab. He walked me out to my car. Things got physical.
CONRAD: Could you define "physical"?
CATH: I believe that I outlined the specifics in my memo.
CONRAD: Catherine, you know what I'm asking, and it's not in the memo.
CATH: I didn't have sex with him, though he clearly wanted it.
CONRAD: And you didn't?
CATH: I went out after shift to unwind. I even invited Warrick and Nick to come along. They had other plans.
CONRAD: All right. So ... when you put on the brakes, Mr. Novak ... got angry.
CATH: Yeah. I got into my car. He went back inside.

You know, I really liked Ecklie in this scene (did I actually say that?!) He was actually sympatheic in his questioning.

* --Tough Cat--
CATH: Mom, Lindsey, go inside the house.
LILY: Believe it or not, Catherine does know how to say,
"Hello, how are you? Would you like a cup of coffee?"
ADAM NOVAK: I was talking to your mother about the case we're working.
CATH: Mom, we're fine. Take Lindsey inside.
LILY: Let's go.
LINDSEY: I don't, I don't want to.
CATH: Lindsey.
LINDSEY: Are you going to go out again?
CATH: No. I'm coming in. I want to hear about your day.
ADAM NOVAK: It was a pleasure meeting you.
CATH: What the hell are you doing here?
ADAM NOVAK: I want to know why you're setting me up, manipulating evidence to
make me look guilty. All because I came on too strong?
CATH: I want you out of here.
ADAM NOVAK: I didn't get my signals crossed. You changed the play, and you're screaming foul. That's some power trip, babe. Who's the guilty one here?
CATH: You want to talk to me, call your lawyer. Set up an appointment down at PD.
ADAM NOVAK: You think I killed her?
CATH: Back off.
ADAM NOVAK: You going to shoot me?
CATH: If you take one more step.
ADAM NOVAK: You bitch.
CATH: You came to my house.

Cath pulling a gun *meow!* I also liked how Cath communicated to her mother, with just the look she gave her, that this could be a dangerous situation. Lily quickly understood and got Lindsey out of there. Again, I can only watch this scene as Marg vs Alan and not Cath/Adam. I believe Marg said somewhere that she had fun telling her husband to "call a lawyer and make an appointment" if he wanted to talk to her.

* --Cath hits him where it hurts--
CATH: (to the killer) I mean, here's a woman that you can't get any traction with, yet she's willing to do a stranger she picked up in a bar.

Ouch! You tell him, girl!!

* --the angst--
CATH: Gil.... I'd ask you out for a drink, but under the circumstances, it's, uh ....... Okay, how long is this going to go on?
GRISSOM: I don't know, Catherine.
CATH: Gil, it was an act of omission.
GRISSOM: How many times have we heard a public defender say that?
CATH: I went out after work. Is it a crime to want a little human contact?
GRISSOM: I guess that's why I don't go out.

As much as I didn't like Gil's attitude here, I really didn't like Cath's joke about going out for a drink. Then they leave us hanging with the two at odds with each other! UGH! I hate (but love) CG angst. Again, here I see things turned around to where Gil is trying to get Cath to understand the seriousness of what could have happened. Much like Cath used to do with Gil.

WHEW! That was another long one, but so much to love in a 40-minute episode.
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

thanx erica

kaylyne i agree with your comment at the end with all the angst, i think grissoms attitude was quite off there, he shouldnt have made her feel like she needed to defend herself to him :(

Also, i like the Cath centric episodes, cos we always get lots of G/C moments in them, so yeay for s7 :)
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

Wow, we're on to WW already? There is so much to talk about in this epi and I don't know where to start. :confused:

The scene that I liked most is the "He hit you" scene. I think Billy really did a good job in this scene, the look in his eyes and his quiet tone just made gil's concern so genuine. I also thought his eyes reflected some fear and pain when he assumed that cath had been hit, but then I may be reading too much into the look :lol:

CSIangel17 said:
catherine actually opened up to him and said that it scared her, which she wouldnt really do with any of the others, proving how much they care and trust each other, so they should be together!
This is the other reason why I like the scene. In A Little Murder (someone correct me if I got the wrong epi) she clearly did not want others to know that she was scared and only opened up to Warrick after her little outbreak with the cop. So it really means something when she is willing to show gil her more vulnerable side without much hestitation ;)

They should also have more scenes like the cath-sara one, girls can and do work well togethter without getting into fights

To wrap it up, after I got over gil being a little of a jerk, I'm kind of glad that he had such a reaction, though I'd say his EQ wasn't that high. He took it easy when he found out about sara and hank. That time sara was suspected of covering for hank who was accused of rearranging evidence so it was as bad as cath's problem in WW. So why did he lose control this time round? For me, jealously played a big part in it :D
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

Okay, do I have perfect timing or what?

Well, considering my username, I guess it's no surprise that I truly and utterly despise this episode.

Not. ;)

Great walkthrough of the episode, kaylyne - you pretty much touched on everything. Grissom... pissed me off to no end in this episode. I love the man (well... I did love him most of the time - he has some making up do with me), but sometimes I just wanna smack him. This episode was definitely one of those occasions.

At the same time, I - to a certain extent - understand why he reacted and behaved the way he did. He doesn't deal well with these things; he's not as open to certain things as Catherine is; he's not as open with his emotions.

Thing is, to a certain extent, I sometimes feel like he's put Catherine on some kind of pedestal. He knows she's not perfect, but sometimes I get the impression that he expects her to be. He trusts her, puts a lot of faith in her, and I think that's the reason he reacts so strongly when he feels that she's done something wrong (even though I will always maintain that she did nothing wrong in this episode - she tried to tell him, he just wouldn't listen and instead behaved like an ass when he finally found out).

Then of course, there's my own favorite little theory, where he was simply afraid for her safety - that something would/could happen to her - and didn't know how to deal with that fear (this is Grissom after all), and instead took it out on her. Afraid of her slipping away from him, and that this was the final thing to put that final rift between them, and that it was simply easier to push her away. Ah yes... my little fic scenario. LOL Still.. wouldn't have minded seeing him confess to some of that in season 6 instead of what they gave us. Meh.

Anyway, all in all, I think "Weeping Willows" is a fabulous episode (although very painful and angsty from a G/C perspective). Marg was absolutely brilliant in it, and I really enjoyed seeing her work with Alan. I think Novak was an interesting character, and he definitely had a lot of darkness in him... I would love for them to bring him back again in a future episode. I really don't feel like that story is done yet.
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

EricaSJ said:
^ LOL Tracey. How about we start from the start? ;)

PMSL!!, that's a damn good idea. Though this would be a goodie eppy because of the Cath/Gil element, but the first 5 mins certainly got me interested. THen it was a emotional rollercoaster for Cath and Gil what with the case and feelings floating around. Great stuff and still haven't forgiven Gil for what he said at the end of the eppy, naughty boy!
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

well crappers, my ww thing is on the other computer so please please please do not move on until i can get home tonight and post it. pretty please? i may give you something special.


anyways. i think gil thought cath was lying about adam hitting her. and i am convinced the two of them have been down this road before.

Lily: (to Catherine) What did you do, walk into a door?

Gil: He hit you.
Catherine: No, it was an accident.

both lily and gil have been there before. now, as for catherine i think it is funny that she choses to use the excuse her mother gave her before she left for the crime scene. she openly lied to gil (never done that before).

now, on to a cath/lily moment:

Lily: I was a working mother too, you know?
Catherine: There but for the grace of God...

Catherine's line is actually a reference back to the episode "Slaves of Las Vegas" where she says the following:
Catherine: All my mother ever told me was cash up front.

so it seems that somebody working on this episode was paying a little attention to continuity. (oh where are they now?)

and a little random line here...
Catherine: I went out after work. Is it a crime to want a little human contact?
Grissom: I guess that's why I don't go out.

that goes with random thought...you guys remember that teacher that went to jail for sleeping with her 13 year old student? ...and moving on...

cath/adam:

Adam Novak: If she's got her mother's looks, you're in trouble.
Catherine: If I don't get home soon, I will be in trouble.

she is fully aware of her responsibilities and was going home. she just needed a little time out, a little human contact.

and here's most of what i had (found it elsewhere) for the whole ep. and trust me, the title was not about cath crying

The title of this episode is deceptive on the surface. Fans automatically assume the episode will be about Catherine Willows and will involve her weeping. The latter proves to be false and the former is only partially accurate. Yes, Catherine is the focal point of the episode but the reality is that the episode is more about Grissom than Catherine. It is another study of the relationship between these characters. A comparison of how they approach the outside world.


The title is a reference to the Weeping Willow tree which is most often used to represent sadness, loss and grief. The willow tree is also known for its ability to bend and survive a storm. This aspect is referenced in the line spoken by Catherine regarding her marriage “Bruised, not broken.” In fact this allusion is perfect for this character. She is a survivor who maker her life work no matter what is thrown at her. In this episode it would be having her personal life exposed to all of those she works with.


This can be compared to Grissom who is unwilling to bend. He pusher her off when she tries to tell him about Novac. He then blames Catherine when he’s blindsided by the revelation. He’s judgmental and over-reactive. His determination to finger Novac is as strong as it was with Sam Braun in No More Bets. The only instance in this episode that he shows any compassion is when he states “He (Novac) hit you” in reference to the cut on Catherine’s face. It is as if the two of them are replaying a scene from their past that both thought would never happen again. Ironically Catherine is as intent on convicting Novac as Grissom is.

more thoughts on this ep. i think that they wanted to use this ep to kill any idea of gc but i also think that it backfired, especially for viewers who have watched all the eps up to this point. one of the remarks in the commentary is that we will see how this affects their (gil/cath) relationship in the next year.

another thing mentioned in the commentary was that ALL the victims were originally supposed to look like cath but marg spoke up and said they'd already done that and didn't want it done. but we still get vics with the same hair color.

honestly, i love this episode because it does tell us a lot about how gil and cath relate to each other when tmtb use their heads and act like tptb instead.


and, i found my nmb thingy if someone wants to go back so my post won't be two pages long, lol!

and mcfan(i don't like this abbrieviation, sounds like something you order at mcdonalds) so glad you were able to visit the set and see what you saw. both for us and for you. now get your butt in gear and join our discussion here. i think rissa has a paper airplane for you.
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

coolcatz said:
she openly lied to gil (never done that before).
Think about it, though... technically she didn't lie. She DID walk into a door. She was the one trying to open the door of the vehicle. Novack just took his hand away at the wrong time. I think that was her whole point with both her mother and Gil. They both thought she was lying about the situation, but she did explain it to Gil when she basically said - no he didn't hit me, but at the time of the accident he wasn't who I thought he was.
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

ah! you are correct. *was thinking door in a room, not car door, hits self with door for punishment*
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

^^ OUCH! Inflicting your own torture now? Gil will still give you the silent treatment for not thinking correctly to begin with. He wasn't forgiving in this episode. Didn't he just mention in a previous episode that he wants someone who doesn't judge him? What in the world is he doing in this epi? It's called being a hypocrite, Gil!
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

Whoa that was a heck of a long post, coolc. I knew you'd do that, haha. And I'm expecting an even longer one after you come home tonight. :D Anyway, I couldn't agree with you more on everything you said up there. Great analysis. I especially loved the part about the episode title. It was so true and so...precise. I also loved it that Marg didn't want to use a recycled idea in this episode. She knew that both the show and the audience needed something refreshing instead of an old, used idea. Kudos to Marg.

Also, ditto on the hypocrite part, kay. Who's judging now?
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

Here's a small part from the GCB scene that's supposed to take place: Catherine: no cash, no wallet, no car keys. Smells like robbery -- Brass: Maybe it was his payday -- Gil: I don't care if he was walking out with a million dollars. This is overkill -- Catherine: Maybe personal.
 
Re: Gil <3 Cath #22: PureJoy - What Would He Do W/O H

^^Thanks for the spoilers csigrillow But pfff. There's no punchline or something?!?!? That's odd for TPTB not putting any punchline on the trio's scenes.
rebec said:
To wrap it up, after I got over gil being a little of a jerk, I'm kind of glad that he had such a reaction, though I'd say his EQ wasn't that high. He took it easy when he found out about sara and hank. That time sara was suspected of covering for hank who was accused of rearranging evidence so it was as bad as cath's problem in WW. So why did he lose control this time round? For me, jealously played a big part in it :D
Ohhh thanks for this! I forgot about the Sara/Hank thing.. cuz you know I tend to forget things about Hank the Skank all I remember is that he has a butt chin. :lol:

love your analysis of Weeping Willows everyone.. I also love how all of the characters had screentime on this episode eventhough this ep is supposed to be Cath-centric. (Brass, Greg, Ecklie, Lily, Lindsey etc. popped up in the ep)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top