Eric/Calleigh romance - why we dislike it. **spoilers**

[starzsgirl]

She was a great role model for others in showing you don't need a guy to protect you

That is something that I definitly don't get why the writers thought they needed to change. Clearly you could see this was the kind of woman she was, & enjoyed being. I go back to the episode (can't recall title but it was earlier season) where that man is harrassing her, Eric tries to step in, & she get's angry at him for doing so ---- ugh I wish I could remember the name; it was the episode where (I believe) where the woman is killed by a drive-by, there was a little boy.....anyone, anyone?

Anyway, point being, she showed in the episode that that was who she was & didn't need OR WANT a man to protect her...least of all Eric who was just trying to be a friend & stand up for his co-worker.
I'm not appauled with the thought of any woman wanting a good man who would go to lengths in protecting them --if they had good reason--but it's completely out of character for Calleigh Duquesne.

I think it's great to develop (develop! NOT CHANGE!) characters & give them more emotion, but taking someone & purposely breaking them down into a poor pitiful victim so they have a reason to feel a certain way is not my cup of tea, & never what I would have expected TPTB to resort to just for a romantic storyline.

Exactly where I was going, thanks mjszud. I too forget the name of the episode but I do remember the storyline of which you speak.

Breaking the character is correct, Calleigh used to have quick, cleaver one liners aimed at many of her male co-workers but lately even that has been lacking and moved on to other characters, which is sad.

It's hard to be critical of a character that I have followed for years, but to take a strong character and move them in a complete opposite direction, IMHO, is wrong and will ultimately cause a great overall change to this show.

 

[abstract]

If it's going on in a forum outside of Miami, it would be up to the mods of that forum to intervene on the matter but if it's happening in this forum, please send me a PM. Labels like that are exactly what we want to keep out of this forum and again, why my last post on the matter was a little harsher than usual.

Thank you for your response. It has been occurring in the shipper forum and has not been addressed. Hopefully that sort of thing will die down now.

I agree with you, this thread has been a breath of fresh air.

 

[Orla_Dark]

That is something that I definitly don't get why the writers thought they needed to change. Clearly you could see this was the kind of woman she was, & enjoyed being. I go back to the episode (can't recall title but it was earlier season) where that man is harrassing her, Eric tries to step in, & she get's angry at him for doing so ---- ugh I wish I could remember the name; it was the episode where (I believe) where the woman is killed by a drive-by, there was a little boy.....anyone, anyone?

It was in season 3, ep 2 "Pro Per"
It's one if reasons why this romance look no natural. You can change for person you love, but what tptb do it's destroy her character. It new Calleigh, for me it's totally new character now. She strong independent woman, if she need guy to protect her it doesn't mean that she don't need guy in her life at all. But TPTB show us this way, or you girl in trouble and man is savior or you don't need him to protect you and alone woman. I hope i write my thoughts understandable. (I know, you guys telling me that i write normal, but i still worry)

I'm a little frustrated with that logic and the running insinuation that those of us who don't care for the E/C ship are just mad because our own ship didn't happen.

I see this point, all my russian friends tell me that if it was my fav ship i'm squee every minute and of course my ship don't destroy team dynamic, etc. I write here what i say them (they still don't believe me :lol. I don't wanna my ship happen this way, like they did with ec, cuz i don't wanna my fav characters involving in mess that kind, changing that way, etc. I start watching show since season 5 (it was last eps, when Ryan was fired and working on tv) and then start watch seasons 4 and 3. And i like what was in season 3, no ships (just hints about H and Yelina, oh, H had very short relationships with Rebeca), interesting cases, teamwork and they actually show us characters like people not robots. I prefer NO ships in the show, cuz all fans can dream (or write fanfics) about their fav ship, all that tptb need it's little hints or phrases everywhere. And everyone happy, everyone want their ship, say "how they cute together", etc. But if tptb actually DO ship, many fans get frustraited, i don't know, i think seating against tv and wishing your fav characters to get together is better then know it's never happen at all. Just my opinion. Now i'm watching this show only because of one character (guess who is it? :lol, if he go, i stop watching, cuz all i like in this show(besides him) doesn't exist anymore

Emily said in her interview, this romance is like its own character. Not everyone likes it; that's just the way it is.

That's mean we see more of this romance in future and it's continue destroy this show.

Edit: while i writing my posts here, you writing tree or more :lol:

 

[Finch]

I do feel like I should scrutinize every word I write for fear someone will misinterpret what I'm saying and the moderator will close this thread. That's not a very comfortable or fun way to write.

I have never closed a thread or done any other moderator action based soley on a complaint. I always look at all sides of the situation before getting involved and then I make the call. The idea that we simply smack everyone down without a thought and step in just to make everyone feel bad isn't accurate at all and shouldn't cause anyone to have to feel overly worried about posting here.

Also, if one has a problem with the way I've handled something or wish to discuss this further, send me a Private Message and I'd be happy to oblige, as not to continue to derail this thread. Many thanks to those who have continued the on topic discussion.

 

[Ginnna]

If it's going on in a forum outside of Miami, it would be up to the mods of that forum to intervene on the matter but if it's happening in this forum, please send me a PM. Labels like that are exactly what we want to keep out of this forum and again, why my last post on the matter was a little harsher than usual.

Thank you for your response. It has been occurring in the shipper forum and has not been addressed. Hopefully that sort of thing will die down now.

I agree with you, this thread has been a breath of fresh air.

Well, there hasn't been a mod that's said anything, but I posted a message (yesterday, I think) reminding everyone that folks in this thread have every right to express their dislike of E/C (within the confines of the rules, of course). I got several responses to the effect of "sorry, we were venting, it's gonna stop now".

So... I hope that puts your mind at ease.

 

[Delynn]

Also, if one has a problem with the way I've handled something or wish to discuss this further, send me a Private Message and I'd be happy to oblige, as not to continue to derail this thread. Many thanks to those who have continued the on topic discussion.

Thank you and I hope you don't mind if I take you up on this offer a little later! The reason I'm responding in this manner is I want to be sure that it's clear that I don't feel you have mishandled anything. But I have to admit I'm truly confused about some things and I'd love some help understanding.

End of this particular discussion - I promise!

 

[mjszud]

but to take a strong character and move them in a complete opposite direction, IMHO, is wrong and will ultimately cause a great overall change to this show.

Exactly. I have to relate this a little to Natalia for a second. She is one who was introduced as someone who needed to gain strength due to her marriage -- TPTB did that, & they evolved her in terms of letting her get past the fear & gain strength. That is development & it makes sense.
However, with Calleigh they're going backwards, & it doesn't work that way!!
It just goes to show proof that this "new Calleigh" was not the true intention of TPTB (at least prior to mid S5) -- they really have had to do a 180 on the character (& Eric's) just to get this romance off to a start - that's wrong, & pathetic to say the least. It's much like taking a piece of the puzzle & carving it down just so it can be forced to fit in a place where it never did belong.

 

[Florry86]

I haven't been for a while and I can see lots of things happened
If I did anything wrong, just let me know

Delynn please don't leave. I love the way you post your ideas and I love the way you think.
Not to mention that I enjoy reading such polite posts, something which sometimes it can be difficult considering the topic

Back to the topic
starzsgirl, Orla_Dark & mjszud you got such a good point.
I've always known Calleigh as a strong, indipendent woman who didn't need any kind of help also whenever she had to pick up her father from a bar.

Surely lots of bad things happened to her, but I don't think they can change you in such a dramatic way.
It wasn't a character's development or a slight change, it was a dramatic change of peronality, something I really hoped I wouldn't get the chance to see.
I love her b/c of a reason &, now that the reason disappeared, I find it hard to go on loving her.

As mjszud mentioned you have to compare Calleigh's "development" with Natalia's one & you can see that Natalia became stronger & stronger.
Right now, I so can imagine Natalia protecting Calleigh & not viceversa as it used to happen in the past.
I'm not saying that I don't love this idea of Natalia (since I jus adore it, I wanted a devlopment like this for her), but I can't get over the idea they destroyed my fav. character :scream:

 

[CSIMandy]

I don't think Calleigh's character has been destroyed. She has changed but in a good way.

 

[starzsgirl]

Surely lots of bad things happened to her, but I don't think they can change you in such a dramatic way.
It wasn't a character's development or a slight change, it was a dramatic change of peronality, something I really hoped I wouldn't get the chance to see.
I love her b/c of a reason &, now that the reason disappeared, I find it hard to go on loving her.

As mjszud mentioned you have to compare Calleigh's "development" with Natalia's one & you can see that Natalia became stronger & stronger.
Right now, I so can imagine Natalia protecting Calleigh & not viceversa as it used to happen in the past.
I'm not saying that I don't love this idea of Natalia (since I jus adore it, I wanted a devlopment like this for her), but I can't get over the idea they destroyed my fav. character :scream:

It is very hard to like or watch a character when the forward development has taken a sudden turn backwards....really they aren't doing much for her anymore. We rarely see her working in the firearms or weapons lab. Heck we rarely see her in the lab in general, and that is very hard to watch.

Natalia has been getting quite strong in her presence and attitude. Which worries me for the length that Calleigh could still be around...does this turn mean that she might leave the team? Or could she be transferring to another city? Personally I hope neither happens, but I have lost faith that we could ever get the real Calleigh back again, sadly. :scream:

I don't think Calleigh's character has been destroyed. She has changed but in a good way.

Could you expand on this comment, please?

 

[Delynn]

Delynn please don't leave. I love the way you post your ideas and I love the way you think.

Not to mention that I enjoy reading such polite posts, something which sometimes it can be difficult considering the topic

No worries. I feel like I have a much better understanding of what I'm doing now, so I'm going to try and muddle through. I can't promise I won't mess up occassionally, but I'll try hard not to.

And thank you for saying such kind things. They are very much appreciated.

starzsgirl, Orla_Dark & mjszud you got such a good point.

Yes they do. They have an excellent point that I had never really considered before!

As mjszud mentioned you have to compare Calleigh's "development" with Natalia's one & you can see that Natalia became stronger & stronger.
Right now, I so can imagine Natalia protecting Calleigh & not viceversa as it used to happen in the past.
I'm not saying that I don't love this idea of Natalia (since I jus adore it, I wanted a devlopment like this for her), but I can't get over the idea they destroyed my fav. character :scream:

You have all done such a wonderful job of expressing this sentiment.

As Natalia has become stronger and more confident, we've watched Calleigh become weaker. They've really turned her into a completely different character. She was never a weak character to begin with. She was strong, confident, professional, intelligent, quick, equal to any man she worked with. That was the Calleigh who was my second favorite character on the show.

That's what distresses me so. I've watched in horror while they destroyed this amazing, beautiful character so they could have their little romance.

I've actually been thinking about Eric a little more lately and I think that while his character is certainly not the strong, confident individual that he once was, his personality changes can at least be explained. And I can actually see a few redeeming qualities that weren't there before. Eric's condemnation of the pilot in last weeks episode shows growth in realizing that committment and monogomy in a relationship is important.

But I still feel it's the wrong relationship and it's playing much too big a role on the show. Ms. Procter apparently made a statement that she felt the romance has become a character of its own on the show and joked that she would be willing to work out more if they would keep E/C together. To me that speaks volumes for what they intend for this couple - and I don't think it's hiding them in the shadows or keeping them in the background.

 

[Florry86]

Delynn please don't leave. I love the way you post your ideas and I love the way you think.

Not to mention that I enjoy reading such polite posts, something which sometimes it can be difficult considering the topic

No worries. I feel like I have a much better understanding of what I'm doing now, so I'm going to try and muddle through. I can't promise I won't mess up occassionally, but I'll try hard not to.

And thank you for saying such kind things. They are very much appreciated.

You're more than welcome & I'm really glad you're going on to post here

As Natalia has become stronger and more confident, we've watched Calleigh become weaker. They've really turned her into a completely different character. She was never a weak character to begin with. She was strong, confident, professional, intelligent, quick, equal to any man she worked with. That was the Calleigh who was my second favorite character on the show.

You can't even imagine how I feel about the whole thing, considering she used to be my fav. character of the show since s1 .
I feel depressed & frustrated at the same time.
I can picture her becoming more human considering she was kinda a superhero (though, from a physical POV the situation hasn't changed that much :lol considering what has happened to her in these last years (especially the last 2), but I get confused whenever I see her like any other woman of the show (yeah I mean Miami girls).
She has never been one of them & I never thought she was going to be like that.
Surely, the idea to destroy a character to put her with a person, IMHO, sound just depressing & quite ridiculous b/c I know they could have put her with that person without destroying her character

That's exactly what I most hate in this situation.....the fact I can't recognize Calleigh anymore & yep I started hating her

I've actually been thinking about Eric a little more lately and I think that while his character is certainly not the strong, confident individual that he once was, his personality changes can at least be explained. And I can actually see a few redeeming qualities that weren't there before. Eric's condemnation of the pilot in last weeks episode shows growth in realizing that committment and monogomy in a relationship is important.

I didn't get that scene since I was too busy throwing up for the rest of the episode, but I agree he's much more mature & it's useless to blame him for everything.
Of course, that bullet changed him & lots of things happened to him (Natalia b/c their relationship changed him & Marisol's death) to make him more mature, but the fact that he suddenly became so mature (after 7 seasons) so that he could stay with Calleigh makes me a little bit angry.
I think you can change a character just to change him/her & develop him/her.

But I still feel it's the wrong relationship and it's playing much too big a role on the show. Ms. Procter apparently made a statement that she felt the romance has become a character of its own on the show and joked that she would be willing to work out more if they would keep E/C together. To me that speaks volumes for what they intend for this couple - and I don't think it's hiding them in the shadows or keeping them in the background.

Emily Prcoter is part of the advertisment of E/C plot & surely she'll be supporting this couple till the end b/c she's an actress & she's paid by CBS to do it . After all, she's a CBS employee!
And yes, the fact they're still going on advertising this couple should make you reflect on it. This plotline will always be important for TPTB unless fans are able to elimate it by making it clear it's not what they want.
That's the only way we won't have this couple thrown on our faces in every episode

 

[mjszud]

I agree that Eric at least has an explanation for his change. However, in my opinion, I saw him maturing slowly, gradually, & naturally near the end of season 4. In fact, in the episode 'Driven' from season 4, Eric felt sympathy for the husband who's wife was killed -- they put quite a bit of emphasis on the scene of Eric in the morgue with her & the husband. He later found out during interrogation that the husband was cheating & the guy made nasty comments about his wife not being "fun" in bed, & Eric was quite disgusted, & angry with him.
I always thought that was showing a great side to this guy who was previously banging chicks against the wall in season 3. I personally liked that it was a gradual transition with him, it came off more natural to me in that sense. His flaws were still a bit there, but his storyline with Marisol, & the fact that he actually had care & concern for someone he was intimate with was a step in showing that this guy was going through a natural transition -- it was happening to him without him even noticing it or feeling that he HAD to be that way.
Sadly, he is now some cardboard cut-out of Prince Charming.

but I have lost faith that we could ever get the real Calleigh back again, sadly. :scream:

Yep. Like I said, it's one thing to move forward & show strength - it's completely another to go backwards, or to go from strong to weak, then weak to strong again.
What baffles me is -- what now? Calleigh is rarely seen in any other storyline other than her "romance". It's all they've developed for her & she doesn't even have anything on the side to keep her character an "individual". Eric at least has his father storyline, & his brain injury to play off of, but what does Calleigh have? She has her little romance with Eric, & she had her accident that we have yet to see any results from --- but nothing else, & can I please just say that it's already puke worthy enough seeing her in all this danger, so the idea of them using her "lung problem" as a possible story for her is just lame & boring -- I've had all I can stand of Calleigh the victim. I fear that it's all were ever going to see when it comes to her character now. **yawn**

 

[starzsgirl]

Sadly, he is now some cardboard cut-out of Prince Charming.

Exactly, they are making Eric out to be something that just isn't working. Not only did they ruin one character (Calleigh) but they are on the way to ruining another one. Are they going to run them all into the ground?!

but I have lost faith that we could ever get the real Calleigh back again, sadly. :scream:

Yep. Like I said, it's one thing to move forward & show strength - it's completely another to go backwards, or to go from strong to weak, then weak to strong again.
What baffles me is -- what now? Calleigh is rarely seen in any other storyline other than her "romance". It's all they've developed for her & she doesn't even have anything on the side to keep her character an "individual". Eric at least has his father storyline, & his brain injury to play off of, but what does Calleigh have? She has her little romance with Eric, & she had her accident that we have yet to see any results from --- but nothing else, & can I please just say that it's already puke worthy enough seeing her in all this danger, so the idea of them using her "lung problem" as a possible story for her is just lame & boring -- I've had all I can stand of Calleigh the victim. I fear that it's all were ever going to see when it comes to her character now. **yawn**

I think you have been reading my mind! :guffaw:

There hasn't been much about Calleigh, her dad was around for a while and added conflict and then he moved on. She did have the accident and the results are a mystery and that is annoying too. Plus the small romances with Jack and the FBI guy, again not much because they moved one or died. There isn't much depth left after they took away her take charge attitude...so this could mean a character departure or the writers are going to start making up stuff.

 

[Orla_Dark]

I think you have been reading my mind!

I have the same thoughts when i read all mjszud posts :guffaw:

About changes in characters. You can change in some way for guy\girl you love, relationship is many compromises, but i talking about... i don't know, socks on floor :lol: But how they change both of them, before ralationship, it's looks like tptb know that Eric and Calleigh don't fit, that they need different characters for that. So they destroy Calleigh for Eric, and change Eric for her. But no matter tptb do to make them fit, it's looks no natural and tptb have no respect for fans who should believe in this lame lovestory when it change their fav characters in bad way.

When Calleigh flirt with Peter or Jake she still was bullet girl, strong and confidence. I don't get, why she should be weak for Eric? She is weak now and in same time she is stronger then Eric (you know what i mean, not physically).


Sorry, i probably don't wrote anything new