Eric/Calleigh romance - why we dislike it. **spoilers**

[inthewind]

At least until we all join the Stepford E/C Shippers marching to the same shipper drum.

I thought this thread was for people to talk about what they don't like about the Eric/Calleigh romance, not what they don't like about E/C Shippers. Sorry, but I think this comment was just a little out-of-line.

Not out-of-line at all. This thread was started so that those disenchanted with the E/C pairing could discuss it rationally without causing dissension in the shipper threads.
:wtf:
Unfortunately, the shippers insist on reading all the comments, which upsets them. Then they feel compelled to defend each one that's contrary to their beliefs, which would be almost all of them. A bit of stirring the pot, isn't it?

 

[electra]

I think silentdisco meant that calling anyone "Stepford EC shippers" may be interpreted as offensive to some.IMO the discussion should be about ideas,not posters.

 

[silentdisco]

I think silentdisco meant that calling anyone "Stepford EC shippers" may be interpreted as offensive to some.IMO the discussion should be about ideas,not posters.

This is exactly what I meant. Thank you.

At least until we all join the Stepford E/C Shippers marching to the same shipper drum.

I thought this thread was for people to talk about what they don't like about the Eric/Calleigh romance, not what they don't like about E/C Shippers. Sorry, but I think this comment was just a little out-of-line.

Not out-of-line at all. This thread was started so that those disenchanted with the E/C pairing could discuss it rationally without causing dissension in the shipper threads.
:wtf:
Unfortunately, the shippers insist on reading all the comments, which upsets them. Then they feel compelled to defend each one that's contrary to their beliefs, which would be almost all of them. A bit of stirring the pot, isn't it?

From the Board Rules: It's fine to say a certain aspect of CSI is bad, as long as you don't insult the people who think otherwise

We agree on why the thread was created: for people to respectfully discuss why they do not like the E/C ship. This does not include badmouthing E/C shippers.

While I personally did not take offense to the term "Stepford" being applied to E/C shippers, others may. That is the only thing I think was just a little out-of-line. It has nothing to do with "defending" a ship.

The only other reply I've made in this thread is to express my gratitude that it was created. Even though I consider myself an E/C shipper, I think it's important for all members of the board to be able to express their opinions and have honest discussion, whether I agree with them or not. As I said before, my comment had nothing to do with "defending" my ship. I only pointed out that the term "Stepford E/C Shippers" could be deemed offensive, and then I proceeded to share my dislike for the E/C daydream scene, a very on-topic opinion.

 

[Ginnna]

At least until we all join the Stepford E/C Shippers marching to the same shipper drum.

I thought this thread was for people to talk about what they don't like about the Eric/Calleigh romance, not what they don't like about E/C Shippers. Sorry, but I think this comment was just a little out-of-line.

Not out-of-line at all. This thread was started so that those disenchanted with the E/C pairing could discuss it rationally without causing dissension in the shipper threads.

Right, so that they could rationally discuss the E/C pairing. During my participation in this thread, I can't recall labeling anyone here with anything nearly so disparaging as "the Stepford E/C Shippers".

Unfortunately, the shippers insist on reading all the comments, which upsets them. Then they feel compelled to defend each one that's contrary to their beliefs, which would be almost all of them. A bit of stirring the pot, isn't it?

I came here a while back to ask questions. With my questions answered, I left. If I "did it wrong", my apologies. I tried my hardest to remain civil and focused.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

I agree with the consensus that the daydream scene was totally unnecessary. While my shipper heart said "awww" my logical brain said "Ugh".

I would have felt that way if it had been a pairing I was a shipper of. Actually, I've seen scenes similiar to this on other shows with pairings I did like and it still left me feeling like and :wtf:. :lol: I kind of felt the same way about the D/L scene where Danny was reading to the baby and kissing Lindsay's belly at work, in the lab. While I like D/L, it seemed like the wrong time, wrong place for such a scene. Like you said, the shipper in me was saying "awww how cute/sweet", but the rest of me was like "okay, totally the wrong place for that". :lol: They should have had that scene with them at home rather than at the lab. It was a bit weird. :lol:

 

[Finch]

Popping in for a minute.

I've stated previously not to label other groups/posters. This thread is for the discussion of the dislike for the pairing, it is not about the posters in this thread or elsewhere on the board. If it needs to be said a third time - and I don't care which side does it - there will be a big shiny lock adorning these walls for 24 hours.

Titles like 'Fangirls', 'Stepford', 'Haters', 'Bashers' and similar are to stay out of this forum, please.

Thank you.

 

[Delynn]

Popping in for a minute.

I've stated previously not to label other groups/posters. This thread is for the discussion of the dislike for the pairing, it is not about the posters in this thread or elsewhere on the board. If it needs to be said a third time - and I don't care which side does it - there will be a big shiny lock adorning these walls for 24 hours.

Titles like 'Fangirls', 'Stepford', 'Haters', 'Bashers' and similar are to stay out of this forum, please.

Thank you.

I know that I'm one of the guilty parties here. I recognize a word I used.

I want to offer my sincerest apologies and a promise that I will be much more careful in the future.

Thank you for the warning.


**Edit: Wow! Now that I've had a few moments to look back, I now see that I'm exactly who this post was meant for. While I didn't intentionally use the term "Stepford" as a bash, apparently that's how it's being taken. To explain how I meant the term would be pointless now that the "offense" has flared. (However, I'm pretty sure there is no where that I have used the terms, 'Fangirls', 'Haters', or 'Bashers')

Suffice to say that my dislike of the E/C ship, as I've said multiple times in the past, is not because I want Eric or Calleigh with someone else and I won't admit it - as I read again yesterday in another thread. I'm a little frustrated with that logic and the running insinuation that those of us who don't care for the E/C ship are just mad because our own ship didn't happen.

I don't have a 'ship!

Again, thank you for the warning.

 

[silentdisco]

Popping in for a minute.

I've stated previously not to label other groups/posters. This thread is for the discussion of the dislike for the pairing, it is not about the posters in this thread or elsewhere on the board. If it needs to be said a third time - and I don't care which side does it - there will be a big shiny lock adorning these walls for 24 hours.

Titles like 'Fangirls', 'Stepford', 'Haters', 'Bashers' and similar are to stay out of this forum, please.

Thank you.

I know that I'm one of the guilty parties here. I recognize a word I used.

I want to offer my sincerest apologies and a promise that I will be much more careful in the future.

Thank you for the warning.


**Edit: Wow! Now that I've had a few moments to look back, I now see that I'm exactly who this post was meant for. While I didn't intentionally use the term "Stepford" as a bash, apparently that's how it's being taken. To explain how I meant the term would be pointless now that the "offense" has flared. (However, I'm pretty sure there is no where that I have used the terms, 'Fangirls', 'Haters', or 'Bashers')

Suffice to say that my dislike of the E/C ship, as I've said multiple times in the past, is not because I want Eric or Calleigh with someone else and I won't admit it - as I read again yesterday in another thread. I'm a little frustrated with that logic and the running insinuation that those of us who don't care for the E/C ship are just mad because our own ship didn't happen.

I don't have a 'ship!

Again, thank you for the warning.

Thank you for the apology. I didn't think you meant to offend anyone. And I don't remember you using any other terms either, so don't worry about it.

As I've stated before, I am guilty of being an E/C shipper, but I can see and respect different points of view. Personally, I don't think "everyone who hates E/C is just bitter about their ship not working out". It may be the reasoning for some (I'm not implicating anyone here, I'm just speaking in general terms, because it's certainly possible to feel this way) but I agree that it's a completely inaccurate way to label everyone who does not like this ship. This thread is proof- I don't recall reading any reply that was merely about "I dislike E/C because it goes against my ship!" But even if there was, I don't see any problem with it. The thread is, after all, called "Eric/Calleigh romance - why we dislike it". Supporting a different ship is a valid reason for not liking the E/C romance, and those who feel this way should feel free to express their opinion. Respectfully, of course, as with any opinion, but able to be expressed nonetheless.

 

[mjszud]

I don't have a 'ship!

Delynn, this is one of the reasons why I'm always interested in your reactions regarding this storyline. There's a lot of folks out there who watch this show who don't 'ship', they watch for pleasure of the crime or a favorite character or actor, so when I see that a storyline like this affects those people, like you, then it really makes me wonder how the millions of viewers are reacting to it as well -- considering the majority of viewers probably do not 'ship' at all & could care less about the romance.

I'm a little frustrated with that logic and the running insinuation that those of us who don't care for the E/C ship are just mad because our own ship didn't happen.

It's certainly easy for other shipper fans to be rubbed the wrong way with this. My 'ships' did happen, & I can assure anyone that I would never in my entire life want them presented in the way that e/c has been...so uh, no there is not a drop of jealousy on my part...believe me.
Anyway, storylines are storylines, they come & go, & no one knows what will come of them, or how long they will last --so I don't at all see the initial problem with this couple being that it's all about what other fans want with thier ship of choice.

As anyone can see from our previous posts, this storyline has effected numerous things; from character destruction to lack of other character arcs & everything in between!! Perhaps if TPTB had managed to NOT make the entire last 2 seasons ONLY about E/C, put forth other character arcs, & kept consistancy with mixed interaction then it wouldn't have been as appauling.

I for one usually "go with the flow" of what TPTB write for this show. I enjoy the interaction of all the other ships as well, I enjoyed DuCaine very much but was easily turned when they introduced Jake -- I bought it & it didn't turn me off even though I shipped her with someone else. But with E/C it's just a story that I have not been able to buy at all.
Everything about it has been "off" & presented unnaturally. To tell you the honest truth, if they had played this same scenario with Horatio & Calleigh, or even Calleigh & Ryan (duos that have always been nothing more than friends) in the exact same way at that time in season 5, I still would not buy it, & I would be here disliking it all the same if it effected the last 2 seasons the way that e/c has.

"Romances" can't be forced upon, nor can passionate, sexual & romantic chemistry, & I feel that's exactly what they've done with e/c --forced it--from the moment Eric was shot in the head, up to this last episode & everything else TPTB will push thier way coming up!
There has not been 7 years in the making of this, & when TPTB & the actors have to go out there & "sell it" as if it has always been this way then it tends to leave a very bad taste in one's mouth.


BTW, thank you Silentdisco. You're words were greatly appreciated.

 

[Delynn]

Delynn, this is one of the reasons why I'm always interested in your reactions regarding this storyline. There's a lot of folks out there who watch this show who don't 'ship', they watch for pleasure of the crime or a favorite character or actor, so when I see that a storyline like this affects those people, like you, then it really makes me wonder how the millions of viewers are reacting to it as well -- considering the majority of viewers probably do not 'ship' at all & could care less about the romance.

Thank you, mjszud. You've been very kind to me since I began posting here. To be honest I thought about this whole thing off and on since it happened and I'm thinking I may have to go back to lurk mode. I thought I had lurked long enough to get the feel of the place, but apparently not. The fact that someone would find what I said to be so offensive and two others felt compelled to comment on being offended as well, tells me I may not have the verbal skills necessary for an ongoing presence here.

As anyone can see from our previous posts, this storyline has effected numerous things; from character destruction to lack of other character arcs & everything in between!! Perhaps if TPTB had managed to NOT make the entire last 2 seasons ONLY about E/C, put forth other character arcs, & kept consistancy with mixed interaction then it wouldn't have been as appauling.

I believe that everyone who has stated their reason for disliking this particular storyline has done so in an intelligent, rational manner. I realize that this is a highly emotional issue. There are numerous times I've felt like we were being forced to defend ourselves because of how we felt. This is why I elected not to respond to the post I saw in another thread accusing everyone who dislikes the E/C storyline of not liking it because they didn't get their ship. I felt it was a total dismissal of all of our very valid feelings on this subject.

Apparently, no matter how intelligently or rationally we present our case, and I feel that everyone here has done a wonderful job explaining why they have a problem with this storyline, some feel we are still in denial. I assumed to address the issue in that thread, which was not a shipper thread, would have caused an immediate smackdown by the moderator. So I addressed the issue here instead.

And apparently I addressed it very badly. I was very sorry when I logged in and saw the warning, but saw a word that I had used so I immediately apologized. After I had a chance to look back and see that only the word I used (and was misunderstood) was picked out and what I alone had said had the moderator actually threating to lock this thread down? Trust me. Not a nice place to be.

I really can't justify the risk of having this possibly happen again. I would feel horrible if you and the others weren't allowed to come here and have an open dialogue because I used a word that I truly didn't realize others would find so horribly offensive.

So it's time to re-think. Who would think it would be this hard. I'm hearing that Castle is a really good show!

 

[starzsgirl]

I'm going to start this out by stating that I am not a shipper, aka no fully declared ship here. But I come to the shows for the crime and stay for the characters.

My real issue with this relationship between Calleigh and Eric is that Calleigh no longer has her independant women outlook. She was a great role model for others in showing you don't need a guy to protect you, go out and learn to used tool to defend yourself. Now I'm not saying that she is the end all be all role model for women and should be a poster child, but really she has lost her edge. She's become a slightly spacey, doe eyed, girly girl to which has put me off from liking her character...it's a shame because she was one of the few female characters on tv that I could antiquate myself with.

This is just my opinion and take on all of this.

 

[abstract]

Delynn, I hope you will reconsider going back to lurking only. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your verbal skills. You have expressed your opinions thoughtfully and intelligently. I have appreciated reading your comments and would truly miss having the chance to read your point of view in the future.

This thread expressly exists as a place to discuss an opposing point of view on an ongoing, somewhat popular, and heavily hyped story line involving two main characters, and as such, it has been used very well. It is unfortunate that posters here have felt called upon to defend their opinions when what they are doing is exactly what the thread calls for: expressing an opinion and backing it up. This is not a debate thread. It has been stated several times that this is the thread to discuss dislike of this particular story line and that if forum users do not like what is being written then *they should refrain from reading these posts*. What I do not understand is why it is ok for these posts (comments) to be freely discussed in another thread and for posters here to be labeled as - immature -jealous - haters. Is that in some way not disrespectful to the posters in this thread?

One can still be a fan of the show (as a whole) yet not care for (or even openly dislike) a particular character or story line. Disliking the EC romance is no different from disliking any other storyline - and there have been many episodes/ story arcs in the past 7 years that have been outright slammed by some of the fans. What is different about the EC romance compared to past story lines, is that this one has been developing for the past two years, has been hyped more than any other, and shows no sign of retreating into the background any time soon. In fact, if anything, it is becoming more of a presence - like Emily said in her interview, this romance is like its own character. Not everyone likes it; that's just the way it is. And just as those who are happy with the way this story line is being played out, have a place to share and discuss their opinions, so do those of us who aren’t happy with it.

That being said, I hope you, Delynn, as well as anyone else who feels their comments are unwelcome, will feel free to post again. I have appreciated the thought that has gone into all of your thoughts.

 

[Finch]

And apparently I addressed it very badly. I was very sorry when I logged in and saw the warning, but saw a word that I had used so I immediately apologized. After I had a chance to look back and see that only the word I used (and was misunderstood) was picked out and what I alone had said had the moderator actually threating to lock this thread down? Trust me. Not a nice place to be.

I do understand how the term could have been misunderstood but I also understand how it was construed in a negative way. That being said, it wasn't based on you alone, which was why I added the other examples (another of which had been used in this thread previously). Addressing posters rather than the posts themselves - ie: making it personal and/or clumping a whole group into one category - have been a bit of an issue in this forum lately which was why my post was a little harsher than usual.

I would hope you'll continue to share your perspectives with us, as we'd certainly love to keep hearing from you--and anyone else who may be a bit hesitant to add their thoughts. The threads that have been started here lately have been such a breath of fresh air with so many different perspectives being added to the mix.

What I do not understand is why it is ok for these posts (comments) to be freely discussed in another thread and for posters here to be labeled as - immature -jealous - haters. Is that in some way not disrespectful to the posters in this thread?

If it's going on in a forum outside of Miami, it would be up to the mods of that forum to intervene on the matter but if it's happening in this forum, please send me a PM. Labels like that are exactly what we want to keep out of this forum and again, why my last post on the matter was a little harsher than usual.

 

[mjszud]

Delynn, please don't go back into lurking mode. I don't want anyone to.
We should all be able to express ourselves without being called on - you've done nothing wrong -- please don't let it get to you.

It is your choice, of course...so if you do insist then at least give some more posts to reach 50 so that I can private message you -- I would enjoy the chat!

She was a great role model for others in showing you don't need a guy to protect you

That is something that I definitly don't get why the writers thought they needed to change. Clearly you could see this was the kind of woman she was, & enjoyed being. I go back to the episode (can't recall title but it was earlier season) where that man is harrassing her, Eric tries to step in, & she get's angry at him for doing so ---- ugh I wish I could remember the name; it was the episode where (I believe) where the woman is killed by a drive-by, there was a little boy.....anyone, anyone?

Anyway, point being, she showed in the episode that that was who she was & didn't need OR WANT a man to protect her...least of all Eric who was just trying to be a friend & stand up for his co-worker.
I'm not appauled with the thought of any woman wanting a good man who would go to lengths in protecting them --if they had good reason--but it's completely out of character for Calleigh Duquesne.

I think it's great to develop (develop! NOT CHANGE!) characters & give them more emotion, but taking someone & purposely breaking them down into a poor pitiful victim so they have a reason to feel a certain way is not my cup of tea, & never what I would have expected TPTB to resort to just for a romantic storyline.

like Emily said in her interview, this romance is like its own character.

It is, & I don't know why she would think that is something fabulous!
There are enough characters on this show already who have had to suffer from character development due to Eric, Calleigh, & then the e/c joined at the hip character. They can take that character to soap opera land & leave it there.

 

[Delynn]

Delynn, please don't go back into lurking mode. I don't want anyone to. We should all be able to express ourselves without being called on - you've done nothing wrong -- please don't let it get to you.

I really didn't expect it to be so stressful. I thought I was doing pretty well walking that tightrope and then I woke up to the warning and three people pointing out one word in everything I've posted since I began posting here with a underlying suggestion that I'm some kind of hater or basher. That was an eye opener.

I'm trying hard not to over-react. I do feel like I should scrutinize every word I write for fear someone will misinterpret what I'm saying and the moderator will close this thread. That's not a very comfortable or fun way to write.

I also feel like I've done a disservice to those who dislike this ship by not being more careful and allowing myself to be called down for being "out-of-line". For that I sincerely and truly apologize to everyone here who has so thoughtfully explained their position regarding their dislike of this ship. You are all such articulate, intelligent people who have so heroically stood up and defended your position against some pretty fierce opposition.

It is your choice, of course...so if you do insist then at least give some more posts to reach 50 so that I can private message you -- I would enjoy the chat!

This one might bring me close. But that means I'll have to learn something new, doesn't it? Oh my.

That is something that I definitly don't get why the writers thought they needed to change. Clearly you could see this was the kind of woman she was, & enjoyed being. I go back to the episode (can't recall title but it was earlier season) where that man is harrassing her, Eric tries to step in, & she get's angry at him for doing so ---- ugh I wish I could remember the name; it was the episode where (I believe) where the woman is killed by a drive-by, there was a little boy.....anyone, anyone?

Anyway, point being, she showed in the episode that that was who she was & didn't need OR WANT a man to protect her...least of all Eric who was just trying to be a friend & stand up for his co-worker.

I'm not appauled with the thought of any woman wanting a good man who would go to lengths in protecting them --if they had good reason--but it's completely out of character for Calleigh Duquesne.

Pro Per, 2nd episode, 3rd season. One of my favorite Horatio episodes. And I do mourn that Calleigh's passing.

It is, & I don't know why she would think that is something fabulous!

There are enough characters on this show already who have had to suffer from character development due to Eric, Calleigh, & then the e/c joined at the hip character. They can take that character to soap opera land & leave it there.

A significant part of the problem is the fact that this romance has taken on a life of its own. It's always a cloud hanging over everything on the show now. They've begun to center everything around Eric and Calleigh's little romance. There was nothing subtle about that "daydream" sequence or the "Calleigh gets her man coffee" sequence. It was a 2x4 right between the eyes and both scenes were inappropriate for time and place.

Well, I've ranted long enough. Have a good one!