"Empty Eyes" Discussion *SPOILERS*

[vegaslights]

EricaSJ said:
And ITA with whoever said about the endings. Starting from Happenstance, out of 11 episodes, there have been 5 with GSR endings. There might be more if it weren't for the three episodes without Grissom. I guess TPTB and some viewers probably have different definitions for the word subtle.

Have to agree with Erica. It seems they save the Grissom/Sara romantic scenes till the very end. And what could be a very good episode (Empty Eyes was good in my opinion, up until the point where Grissom rubs the tear from Sara's cheek) is ruined by a lack of chemistry between the two.

It was nice to see the group interactions, though, throughout the episode. Warrick, Grissom, and Catherine in the house, and then the four (including Nick) back in the lab layout room; reminding me of the old CSI.

This season still is one of my favorites, but still, holding off the GSR scenes would make it even better.

 

[Adzix]

Erica, you see, i'm loving this season more than any other. i think the cases themselves are so very exciting that even without GSR being canon, i would completely love it. the GSR is for me a cherry on the top. everything fits so perfectly together. every time there is a new episode i'm extremely excited and the whole show is more and more addictive. i think this season didn't have any weak episodes so far and i really can't understand those people who complain all the time. how much better do you want it to get? they have only 8 days to film each episode, and the level of how it's all done is very high. it's certainly the best show on TV.

i don't agree with the statement that there was no interaction between other characters. what about the CatNip dance in season opener for example? that was one of the shippiest moments on CSI, we didn't even get to see Grissom and Sara in such a proximity.

the fact that there is no flirting between Sara and other characters, or Grissom and Catherine, is understandable. would you like your boyfriend to flirt with other people? cuz i wouldn't.

and they had some scenes together. Grissom even wrapped his arm around her after Keppler died, which is also the most GSR shippers got so far.

Adzix , I love you.....and this post cracked me up. lol

I can say I totall agree in every point possible!

lol, thanks Tini

It seems they save the Grissom/Sara romantic scenes till the very end. And what could be a very good episode (Empty Eyes was good in my opinion, up until the point where Grissom rubs the tear from Sara's cheek) is ruined by a lack of chemistry between the two.

i have one question: can you specify what do you mean by 'lack of chemistry'? i'm just curious

 

[EricaSJ]

Aw, I'm sorry we have different opinions, Adzix, but that's life. You enjoy this season, good for you. You don't get why some people dislike it, we don't get why some people like it. That's all. Opinions.

Of course you can say that dance scene (which was half a year ago) is some kind of interaction. I totally agree, but what I was talking about was something deeper. The characters used to really talk to each other. They shared their joy and burdens. Now where is THAT? I can only think of *few* from 18 episodes and none of those scenes were as good as the ones in the previous seasons. I want this season as good as seasons one and two, but I know it's impossible. So, *shrug*

But I didn't mention anything about flirting, where did you get that from? I said they ruined a perfect friendship that had been there since the very beginning of the show for God knows what. Oh since you mentioned flirting, I do miss the old days when the characters just flirted and had fun. It's so boring when there's a canon ship and suddenly they just stop all the flirting. Somehow I don't think some happy GSR shippers would understand that.

Judging by your reply, I think you're still assuming that I don't like season 7 because of GSR. Sure it's one of my many reasons, I'm not going to lie here. However, I don't hate this pairing. I just don't care about it. I wouldn't lose interest just because of it. If I have to pick a biggest reason, it's the general quality which I happen to think isn't impressive at all. I'm just hanging on for my favorite character.

 

[Adzix]

^^^ you know that's why i like you Erica. despite the fact that we have different opinions and you ship a different pairing, we can have a civilized discussion.

i totally understand everything you said, and believe me, i know exactly how a non-GSR person feels when GSR is canon, b/c i was one of those people in may last year. but i felt that i can accept it and i learned to love it. but, that's just me, you know.

but you're right, it's just the difference in opinions

 

[MissDee]

Someone on YTDAW mentioned that her father was a guard in the same prison that Richard Speck (the real-life sociopath whose crimes this episode was modeled on) was in. She said that her father crossed paths with Speck at one point, and that his eyes were so dead and yet so evil, it scared the s**t out of him. I thought that was an interesting connection.

BTW, anyone who wants to read about Richard Speck can get the details at Wikipedia, and in far more detail at Crime Library.

I also just wanted to point out that it's entirely possible that the killer in the episode did not cut his own throat out of remorse. It's entirely possible that, clinically, he knew he felt nothing about killing the victims and just wanted to see if he would feel anything by slitting his own throat. Knowing that he was in a public place and that someone would be likely to find him, he could be reasonably sure that he wouldn't bleed to death before getting to a hospital, especially if he was careful not to slit his throat from end to end. Which, if I remember correctly from his bandages in the hospital, he didn't.

At any rate, if you read the page above you will see that the real Speck did attempt suicide before he was caught. Maybe he wanted to see if he could feel something, like I said. Maybe he thought his life sucked for other reasons and wanted to end it. Maybe he figured he'd be caught and was calculatingly making a bid for sympathy. But if the real-life guy tried it, then I don't think there's any grounds for saying that TPTB did a poor job because they wrote the killer that way.

It sure does prove, though, that sometimes real life really is stranger than just about anything we can imagine.

 

[EricaSJ]

Adzix said:
^^^ you know that's why i like you Erica. despite the fact that we have different opinions and you ship a different pairing, we can have a civilized discussion.

lol thanks. I'm glad it was you I was having a discussion with.

 

[S_Bright]

desertwind said:
I think I'm not alone here, that the chemistry and connection between Gris and Sara is so powerful that it's overwhelming.

It's too much for me, since they don't even act their age but like teo teenagers without a clue. I cringe at watching them when it's supposed to be a serious relationship.

Not to mention the fact that it's unethical for a supervisor to date an underling.

Grissom must have undergone a braintransplat . the way the pronounced memento morii proves that the knowlegde he once had is forever gone, like the CSI I Loved.

If you check the statistics for suicides amongst psychopaths you'd see why it is highly unlikely.

see link Diagnostic criteria for the criteria according to the different DSM versions

bad, unrealistic soap-opera writing is what CSI has turned into, And I mourn the show.

good thing that S8 will be the last because it's not going to end on top, that much weäre already seeing from the ratings.

 

[delkoschick]

I liked the episode, it reminded me of old time CSI. I'll be sad when it goes, but it'll be it's time. and i'll have my dvds to keep me watching my favorite show.

 

[xfcanadian]

Adzix said:
okay, one question: who said he was a psychopath?

Actually there was an entire scene just to point out that he was a psychopath...when Brass was interviewing him, they made a point to show that he was a classic case of what a psychopath would be. Maybe if they hadn't blatently pointed out how he is such a classic case of one, then it would be a little more believable.

 

[Adzix]

^^^ but you said that they rarely try to commit suicide, which means that it happens. besides, as MissDee pointed out (thanks for that info Dee!), the real killer who this character was based on, tried to kill himself. so i think CSI clearly did they research correctly.

I'm glad it was you I was having a discussion with.

thanks

 

[korbjaeger]

Thanks for posting that. I'm an "old broad" and remember the Richard Speck case, though I was real young when that happened. The episode did sort of ring a bell associated with Speck, but I didn't know whether it was consciously based on the actual case - and yes, I remember his suicide attempt and them finding the identifying tattoo when washing the blood off his arm.

There were pros and cons to this ep for me but the best part, AFAIC, was the rehumanizing of characters we see having to put up a bit of a shell when dealing with death day in and day out. Real life CSI's do that, they have to or they'd go nuts...but every once in a while, a particularly horrific or tragic case cracks (or shatters) the shell.

Adding depth to Hodges' character was a wonderful thing. WL played the phone scene beautifully. Nice to see him get a chance to show what he can do.

I'm sure I mentioned it before, but I adore Ruby Dee and I'll bet GD loved working with her, even if only for a scene. She's truly one of the undercelebrated grand dames of contemporary cinema. My favorite performance of hers was probably with Ossie Davis in "Do The Right Thing", but again - she's just amazing. And it was nice to see the compassionate/strong side of Warrick. We've seen glimpses of it before, but this was a rare gem.

And I do join with those who raved for JF's performance. I think she's a brilliant actress, have ever since I saw her on "The West Wing" - and sometimes I think they don't do her character justice, though that's a writing flaw, not acting. I agree with those who said there was a little too much expository dialogue. There always is, on this show, too much to be realistic, though most of that is related to the science and technique. Maybe the writers are getting edgy about the "Grey's Anatomy" competition and trying to - let me put this delicately - "de-intellectualize" the writing for a more soap-opera friendly, less science-savvy audience. Problem is, THAT audience is watching Grey's...not CSI...and that won't change anytime soon.

Good ep overall, not the best, and only in parts one of the best, but I'm looking forward to the next two all the more.

 

[S_Bright]

xfcanadian said:

Adzix said:
okay, one question: who said he was a psychopath?

ETA:
Actually there was an entire scene just to point out that he was a psychopath...when Brass was interviewing him, they made a point to show that he was a classic case of what a psychopath would be. Maybe if they hadn't blatently pointed out how he is such a classic case of one, then it would be a little more believable.

It was too obvious that they threw the psychopath card in without any knowledge, just to have the episode end in time.

The science really sucks in CSI, big time by now.
This plot had holes that would fit trucks. And this season is supposed to be the best written one? Crapm crappety crap. Oh, the list of mistakes they've made is getting ridicuoulsy long.

Yup, a classical suicidal psychopath that didn't even have a reason to feign suicidal tendencies to manipulate somebody. *laughs self silly*

CSI has very little science thanks to the friggen romance, there simply sisn't room because of the sultry looks

 

[Adzix]

CSI has very little science thanks to the friggen romance, there simply sisn't room because of the sultry looks

the GSR scene in EE took 45 seconds. the whole episode was 41:42 and if they wanted they could have added 2 minutes of science anywhere.

 

[quoth_the_raven]

I personally think this season is the best written because of the character development. But that's just my opinion. There's been plenty of science in it, it's in every episode. There's a difference between the writing being bad and not liking the episode because of the GSR or certain focus on a character. The acting was still wonderful. We all like the same characters, we all like the same show, don't we?

I don't understand why you think the romance dominates the show, S_Bright Like Adzix said, it was 45 seconds. They're not making out in every scene. It was all character-driven this episode. I still don't quite get how the ending is considered sloppy. The man obviously tried to kill himself so he wouldn't have to do time in jail and/or to direct blame on someone else. He didn't have remorse or guilt, he didn't want to get caught

 

[vegaslights]

i have one question: can you specify what do you mean by 'lack of chemistry'? i'm just curious

I'll try. lol.

It's always seemed that they have been a father/daughter (or even grandfather/grand-daughter) relationship. That's why I think in the early seasons, he couldn't embrace in her, because he saw it as "I'm far to older, I'm more like your father's age" type thing.

Just me though.