"Empty Eyes" Discussion *SPOILERS*

I don't really understand why people are saying this episode's writing was horrible. As most people have stated, most of our views are based on which characters or ships we like. For example most Snickers/Grillows shippers haven't liked this season because of the GSR, while on the other hand GSR fans have loved it.

How was the killer slashing his throat at the end sloppy?? :confused: Like edog said, he's psychotic and a sociopath (no remorse, no regret, no emotion). Why do they do anything they do? If for no other reason it was to not get caught and die instead of having to serve time and/or to direct the blame on someone else. Because remember, Sara held his hand in the ambulance because she thought he was innocent.
 
quoth_the_raven said:
I don't really understand why people are saying this episode's writing was horrible. As most people have stated, most of our views are based on which characters or ships we like. For example most Snickers/Grillows shippers haven't liked this season because of the GSR, while on the other hand GSR fans have loved it.

How was the killer slashing his throat at the end sloppy?? :confused: Like edog said, he's psychotic and a sociopath (no remorse, no regret, no emotion). Why do they do anything they do? If for no other reason it was to not get caught and die instead of having to serve time and/or to direct the blame on someone else. Because remember, Sara held his hand in the ambulance because she thought he was innocent.
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Because he is a psychopath, and that doesn't fit any of the models of a what a psychotic person would do. Suicide after a crime indicates GUILT or GRIEF. I have read over tons of case files of serial murders or crimes commited by a psychopath, and I study criminology on the side, that would NOT happen, not unless he was already caught, but they didn't even have him as a suspect.

I guess they figured people would just assume a psychotic person would do any crazy thing, and people did fall for it. There was one poster who stated this episode was dumbed down to the max, I agree...
 
xfcanadian said:
Because he is a psychopath, and that doesn't fit any of the models of a what a psychotic person would do. Suicide after a crime indicates GUILT or GRIEF. I have read over tons of case files of serial murders or crimes commited by a psychopath, and I study criminology on the side, that would NOT happen, not unless he was already caught, but they didn't even have him as a suspect.

I guess they figured people would just assume a psychotic person would do any crazy thing, and people did fall for it. There was one poster who stated this episode was dumbed down to the max, I agree...
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I don't know wether to agree or disagree with you. I mean, you prove such positive points. But it's jusat a T.V show. Not everything has to be correct.

Just because he's a physcopath doesn't mean he can't/won't commit suicide.

They showed us clips while he was in the bar, which made me think that he had some sort of remorse for what he did, even if he says he didn't.

He is a drunk.
He may not feel anything about the crime, but he obviously had some guilt if he was drinking his sorrows away.

If he didn't feel anything, why would he try to kill himself? Perhaps he's crazy?
 
I think I'm not alone here, that the chemistry and connection between Gris and Sara is so powerful that it's overwhelming.. to me, it's the most sensational paring I've ever seen of two TV characters.. sizzle an sparks fly. and alway have and that's a good thing.. they're so good together when working a scene, the smiles, the flrity banter and the look's :eek: and 30 seconds or so in an hour show is not that much, and here, if you want to see the percentage of the pros and cons of this couple you can view it in the TV Guide.com/poll site!!! this was apparent in 'EE" he's mellowed and calmed way down and seems more contented/centered/caring and happy.. and this girl brought that out.. he's still the complex Grissom, with his sarcasm, but still has the charm and charisma he's always had an is the most exciting charcter on this great TV show.. but, he has changed for the better. not so up tight..and I think the writers were fantastic, putting together this ep. they work hard to come up with great ideas, and who can understsnd, or get in the mind of a crazy demented creep? and why they do what they do :mad:
 
Okay, could I just point out that psychopaths by definition do not function normally? Just because it doesn't make sense to us that he'd attempt suicide doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to him. I completely agree with you, desertwind - who can get into the mind of a crazy demented creep?
 
gsrLOVE said:
I don't know wether to agree or disagree with you. I mean, you prove such positive points. But it's jusat a T.V show. Not everything has to be correct.

Just because he's a physcopath doesn't mean he can't/won't commit suicide.
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I agree. I'm not going to refute anyone's knowledge on case files, etc, etc. I'm no expert in it. Not gonna argue on that. What I am gonna argue is that even with all the statistics, and all the case files to back up that claim, there is always the possibility of that one anomaly that throws off everything once thought to be true.

Humans are complex creatures. We can't always base the actions of one man on the actions of others. There are bound to be 'oddballs' to every theory and case. I mean, how many theorists are out there? Freud, Hume, Voltaire, Socrates, just to name a few. They all have their own view on how the mind works and you know what? If they were all alive today, they would argue to the death that their theories are more correct than others. So, yeah, for us to argue over whether this guy would actually commit suicide is a moot point.

Either scenario (killing himself or not killing himself) is plausible. Maybe we can just leave it at that. *shrugs*
 
4ENSIX said:
Okay, could I just point out that psychopaths by definition do not function normally? Just because it doesn't make sense to us that he'd attempt suicide doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to him. I completely agree with you, desertwind - who can get into the mind of a crazy demented creep?
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No its a common misconception that a psychopath is completely out of control. They are selfish, and live for themselves.

Here is some of the signs of a real psychopath:

- Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking
- Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations
- Suicide threats rarely carried out

The writers clearly just got sloppy here, and we have yet another misconception of mental illness. Suicidal doesn't equal psychotic. The did this with bipolar in the last episode. Seriously, a show about science, they could at least get some of it right.

And after reading about real crime, no this crime wasn't that horrific, I was expecting worse. Plus its the way they showed it, made it less horrific than it actually was.
 
No, sorry, that's not what I said. I didn't say they were out of control, I meant that they don't function according to how the rest of us expect them to function.
 
4ENSIX said:
No, sorry, that's not what I said. I didn't say they were out of control, I meant that they don't function according to how the rest of us expect them to function.
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No, they don't, but its very unlikely that one who had that much pleasure in his first kill would want to end that. Maybe if they were coming after him, this would make sense. But it doesn't...I think they spent too much time on the flashbacks, not enough on the actual episode. We could see how it was affecting sara, without adding all of those scenes.
 
Yes, now we agree. ;) I think they did spend too much time on the flashbacks when they could have had more of the actual episode. Sara's emotion was evident throughout, and would have been without all the flashbacks.

(Your banner rocks. :D)
 
xfcanadian said:
4ENSIX said:
No, sorry, that's not what I said. I didn't say they were out of control, I meant that they don't function according to how the rest of us expect them to function.
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No, they don't, but its very unlikely that one who had that much pleasure in his first kill would want to end that.
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Well....since he is a killer and nutcase WHO knows what`s really going on in his sick head. The writers decided to let him try to commit suicide, you think it doesn`t fit the profile....fine...I think we should stop discussing this issue now. You think it was sloppy writing, some of us were fine with it.
Like I said : A matter of taste. :)

By the way I really enjoyed seeing Warrick in this episode. He looked pretty handsome too, especially since we don`t see him that offen. GD has soooo much potential *shakes head* It`s a shame...

ETA: There is one thing I didn`t comment on: The GSR *sigh*...beautiful...I like how Grissom has changed, he kinda reminds me of season 1 Grissom, very open and friendly to others. Not this cold, emotionless man he was back then. What love can do! ;) It`s amazing.
 
okay, one question: who said he was a psychopath?

the fact that he attempted a suicide clearly suggests that, as you said yourself xfcanadian, he doesn't fit the profile. remember that not every person that is a crazy killer HAS to be a psychopath, lol.

there are a billion different abnormalities and many of them not diagnosed yet. he doesn't fit this profile? he'll fit another.

human behavior is not always as you read it in a Psychology 101 book or in police files, it's much more complex and saying that "CSI did a poor job, cuz my textbook says that the killer would do something else" is almost funny to me. a case in real life very rarely reveals the WHOLE truth about the crime. we don't know anything about the murderer, and trying to diagnose him basing on one 2 - minute long conversation is something even the best psychiatrists in the world wouldn't attempt.

if we had every single case on CSI cracked to pieces, and knew absolutely every detail about what lead the killer to do what he did, we would have everybody complaining again that the show is not realistic.
 
Adzix said:there are a billion different abnormalities and many of them not diagnosed yet. he doesn't fit this profile? he'll fit another......it's much more complex and saying that "CSI did a poor job, cuz my textbook says that the killer would do something else" is almost funny to me.
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Adzix , I love you.....and this post cracked me up. lol :lol:

I can say I totall agree in every point possible!
 
*headsdesk*

I didn't know I would have to put up with the "GSR is so and so" stuff before I came in here. I couldn't care less for this pairing, but the reason why I dislike this season certainly isn't the GSR but the lack of non-GSR. It feels like those two have their own team and the others are out of it. Yes, there have been mere group interactions, so little that it's really hard for me to recall any right now. And they certainly ruined the perfect friendship between Grissom and Catherine. *laughs bitterly* IMHO the best season 7 episodes on my list so far are probably Loco Motives and Law of Gravity. Most of the others are just flat. The cases don't excite me anymore, the writing is lame and they use several recycled plots. I don't mind recycled plots, but they were badly done IMO. Also, while being a Catherine fan, I don't mind a Catherine-light episode every once in a while as long as it's a good one, but *sigh* some of this season's episodes -even Cath-heavy ones- are just bleh.

That being said, Jorja did give a great performance, but the writing could have been a lot better. And ITA with whoever talked about the endings. Starting from Happenstance, out of 11 episodes, there have been 5 with GSR endings. There might be more if it weren't for the three episodes without Grissom. I guess TPTB and some viewers probably have different definitions for the word subtle.
 
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