Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:NY

[HCfanforlife1982]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

Hey guys,

Since I can't possible sit here and read every page of this topic I am just going to give you my ships and I will try and tell you why but really I don't know other then they make me want to root for them. lol.

Mac/Lindsay: I just love the idea of these two together and I can just see it happening which would make me happy. lol

Danny/Lindsay: This is also a couple that I love to death. I just love how they are with eachother and how protective he can be with her. I just find these 2 so cute together.

Mac/Stella: Love them. They are so insync with eachother and Cute as well.

Brandy

 

[pretty_in_pink]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

I have personally been liking the idea of Mac and Lindsay together. I think they have more chemistry than Danny and Lindsay (even though I ship them too) and that they have some really good scenes in season two. I also think that they are believable as a ship and their chemistry is not as forced as D/L. Stella and Mac have great chemistry too (I also ship them) and I think that they would be good together. As for the others:

Stella/Danny-I think these two have a good bond. I was watching Trapped today, and I could see a spark. That being said, I don't know if they would make a good couple, as in like, romance.


Flack/Danny-I think these two also have wonderful chemistry and would be wonderful together. They joke around a lot and I liked how Flack called Danny "Danno" in that one episode. I think it was about three weeks ago(?).


Stella/Sid-I think that this is a rather odd pairing. I wouldn't have ever put these two together. While I think they are good friends, it reminds me of Stella/Danny. Just friends.



Danny/Angell&Hawkes/Angell-Well, Angell's only been in what, two episodes tops. I cannot make a judgement of her yet or of who she would and would not be good with. While I did think that Danny,Hawkes, and Angell all have a good connection with each other, it could just be a friendship together, not romance.(BTW, I'm not talking about them as a threesome, just in case this was hard to understand)


Mac/Peyton-What can I say, I'm a SMACked shipped. I dislike the idea of Peyton being in the show at all. We barely ever see her and the whole point of her is to give Mac a lover. We haven't seen any development of her, and she (IMO) is just a dull character and takes up valuable Sid Time (LOL). I felt the relationship was forced on us, just seeing them together for the first time IN BED! It was just awkward. There was no lead up to that and it felt wrong. I think Mac/Stella is better because they have a strong relationship and they are not only close friends, but I believe they are lovers in the closet. Like R.Kelly(LOL).


I didn't address most of the ships talked about here but that's because I have carpotunnel and my fingers hurt from all of this typing.

BTW, these are all my opinions, not trying to harm anyone or make you all PO'ed. Just saying, you all have thoughts and I am not discrediting any of them.

 

[Top41]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

I want to echo what others have said about the criticism of D/L. It's not personal about those who like the pairing--no one "hates" anyone for liking a particular pairing. Disagreement doesn't equal hatred or dislike. I think JDonne is fabulous, but I can't understand her baffling dislike of my beloved Dickens, who is a genius! It's a difference of taste, not a personal vendetta.

JDonne said:
I think you used the keyword – subtle. When I studied for my undergraduate degree, one of the first lessons I learned was that art is in the subtleties. There is the big picture, which is obvious to everyone, but the essence and the heart of the matter is where you need to dig deeper, look beyond the obvious, beyond what the artist tries to drill in your brain, you need to open your mind to the possibility that is being presented, because at some point obvious becomes ordinary and ordinary becomes forgettable. Once you do that you see the real intellect behind a piece rather than the elementary, it is the difference for me between D/L and D/F. Danny and Lindsay was a constant bombardment, people telling you what you should see and what you should feel, there was and is not art in the pairing, whereas D/F is there but it exists in the subtleties, it exists in the quiet, it exists in brief moments in time that resonate.

Exactly. For me it's the difference in showing vs. telling. D/L is being "told" to us, through scripted scenes and bad dialogue. Real chemistry doesn't need that--Peyton's arm sliding across Mac's chest said more than any bad so-called flirting between Danny and Lindsay ever will. In fact, their body language only speaks to the lack of chemistry--Danny putting up his hands to signal Lindsay to back off in "Live or Let Die" or Lindsay awkwardly putting her hand on Danny's shoulder in "All Access" just speaks to how unnatural these two are together. The script is putting them together, not natural chemistry, and that's not the way it should be.

D/F was always sexy but it became beautiful when Danny found himself drowning in On the Job and he turned to Flack, and Flack took the brunt of Danny’s emotional upheaval and bore it with grace, compassion. Those understanding blue eyes, leaning across the table trying to will some of his own calm into Danny and in that moment without a single word you knew no matter the outcome Flack would be there to lift Danny up – I love them!

That was a true moment of love. Whether you see it as fraternal or romantic, the way Flack rushed to Danny's side and then tried to comfort him was a moment that showed just how deeply Flack cares for Danny. That love seems to be unconditional as well--when Danny stormed out, Flack's expression wasn't "well, screw him" but one of concern and care. And, in the next scene, he's back working the case. The writing was superb in that scene, but the natural bond between Danny and Flack really sold it. The expression on Flack's face spoke to how much he cared about Danny, while the earnest, needy look on Danny's revealed how much he was letting his guard down and how desperately he craved consoling words from Flack. It was a beautiful scene, my favorite so far in the show.

Another one that comes close or maybe is its equal is the moment between Flack and Danny in RSRD, when Mac tells Flack to look out for Danny. Flack says "We're not going anywhere"--the absolute right words in that moment, and the tone of his voice left me with no doubt whatsoever that if someone came after Danny, Flack wouldn't hestitate to draw his gun and fire. The expression on Danny's face was one of complete trust and faith; he believed what Flack was saying, and for a character who has such a hard time trusting people, that was a big deal.

They are beautiful, because there's so much real feeling there.

 

[Faylinn]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

Danny/Angell&Hawkes/Angell-Well, Angell's only been in what, two episodes tops. I cannot make a judgement of her yet or of who she would and would not be good with. While I did think that Danny,Hawkes, and Angell all have a good connection with each other, it could just be a friendship together, not romance.(BTW, I'm not talking about them as a threesome, just in case this was hard to understand)

Yeah, Angell has only been in three episodes so far, and two of those seemed to only include her interacting with Mac. In "People with Money" though, when she worked with Danny and Sheldon, I definitely got the sense that they were comfortable with each other and I could see them hanging out. I can definitely see what you mean by the connection being friendship rather than romance, and that's part of why I like it. People can be friends and have it develop into more, over a long period of time. Friendship is no less interesting to me than romance, and the idea of friends becoming more than friends is intriguing--hell, that's how I look at Danny/Flack, so maybe that's why I like it. :lol:

So I'd definitely say that there are pairings that I can see right now, and some that I could see developing. With a minor character like Angell, who has good chemistry with the other characters even in a just few key scenes, the possibilities are almost endless.

I like toying with the possibilities I see, exploring the differences between the chemistry that characters A and B have versus characters C and D, etc.

They are beautiful, because there's so much real feeling there.

Yes, absolutely. Whether you view those feelings as platonic or not, I don't think anybody can deny that there is definitely something there with Danny and Flack. For me, exploring the romantic side of that relationship is intriguing and more rewarding than I would find other ships to be.

 

[kissmesweet]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

The rumors with Stella getting a new love interest are exciting. I'm personally a Fiesta/ Smacked person, but since Mac had Peyton (for now...), Stella could possibly find something in Flack. They have amazing, natural chemistry together. They work well, on and off cases. There also seems to be a comfortable ease between them when they chat. A little teasing works well for them. I hope we get to see more of them together.

 

[catey1234]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

I agree with you, kissmesweet. I could definetly see Flack and Stella together. They seem at ease with one another.

 

[Radical618]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

I enjoy seeing Stella and Flack work together, not to mention I ship the two of them. If that were to be the pairing I'd be very happy. Sid and Stella would be absolutely hilarious though, and I would definetly root for them. With Peyton being around and all I don't see SMACKed really happening, however if it did now, it would be hard to ship because I'd be mad at Mac in a way. He doesn't seem like the kinda guy to break up in a relationship then to start a new one soon after.

So in the end, I'd like to see Fiesta, but if not, Stella/Sid would be great.

 

[catey1234]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

I totally forgot about Stella/Sid! :lol: Their scenes are funny together. Good one, Rad!

 

[Faylinn]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

My feelings against Flack/Stella are the same as my feelings against any canon ship on the show--it would interfere. Flack gets very little screentime as it is, and I'd be willing to bet that, if he was dating Stella, most of his screentime would be taken over by that and we'd get even *less* of him rather than more.

Now, that being said, it's an interesting dynamic, even if I don't personally ship them together. I just don't see it. I like them as very close friends, and I think it's a rare relationship on this type of show. I'm loath to wish that such a great, deep, interesting friendship could only be used for romance. Outside of the show is a different story, and I've read at least one decent fic for that pairing, but in canon I'm not enthusiastic.

I'm interested, though, in the fact that people really only consider it to be Flack or Hammerback. Hammerback I can see, yes, because of the flirting last season and everything, and Flack I can see because it's a popular pairing on here, but nobody seems to consider another possibility. It's no more likely to be Flack than, say, Hawkes (and Stella/Hawkes is a pairing that I personally like for fanfic but have similar reservations about in canon), but why is it assumed that it's Flack? There's been absolutely no indication of their relationship being romantic. Yes, it's down to interpretation for fanon, but on the show I'd expect to have some sort of clue (even if it's something forced through dialogue). Since there have been no clues so far about it being romantic, for them to suddenly have them flirting and acting like it's the love of their lives (since casual dating seems pretty non-existant on these shows unless the person ends up being a victim or suspect) would seem...strange...

Another thing that interests me is the idea that Mac couldn't be in a relationship with someone else since he's with Peyton. This is his first serious relationship since Claire died, I assume, but that doesn't mean they're going to get married or anything. And it's quite possible that they'll break up, so what would be wrong with him dating someone else? I really don't understand the reasoning that for him to break up with someone and go with someone else is bad when it happens every day in real life. No, I don't want him to toss Peyton to the curb and not even wait for the cab to pull away before he asks someone else out, but who says he can't wait a little while before dating again? Why would a new relationship be assumed to happen that quickly? If the writers were going with Mac/Stella (it's an okay ship, IMO, but no please, don't do that to NY in their third season), they could have him dump Peyton in the next episode they're in together (wasn't she only signed on for 4 episodes initially?), and then in a month or two have him and Stella date. How could we say what the acceptable the time period would be to make it alright without being aware of the circumstances?...

 

[bklynCSIfanatic]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

For me it's the difference in showing vs. telling. D/L is being "told" to us, through scripted scenes and bad dialogue. Real chemistry doesn't need that--Peyton's arm sliding across Mac's chest said more than any bad so-called flirting between Danny and Lindsay ever will. In fact, their body language only speaks to the lack of chemistry--Danny putting up his hands to signal Lindsay to back off in "Live or Let Die" or Lindsay awkwardly putting her hand on Danny's shoulder in "All Access" just speaks to how unnatural these two are together. The script is putting them together, not natural chemistry, and that's not the way it should be.

ITA on that. Danny and Lindsay's interactions come off as ridiculously contrived. As I mentioned before they seem to have no real grasp of each other and what makes the other tick. I don't want to be dictated on who should have chemistry.

Chemistry just happens naturally and comes by surprise, and it can't be manufactured. The big example of that is D/L, and that's why its depressing on screen and puts a drain on the show. And I hope the execs come to the realization and move away from the aspect of D/L.

 

[Top41]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

bklynCSIfanatic said:
ITA on that. Danny and Lindsay's interactions come off as ridiculously contrived. As I mentioned before they seem to have no real grasp of each other and what makes the other tick. I don't want to be dictated on who should have chemistry.

Chemistry just happens naturally and comes by surprise, and it can't be manufactured. The big example of that is D/L, and that's why its depressing on screen and puts a drain on the show. And I hope the execs come to the realization and move away from the aspect of D/L.

I hope so too. I'm a big believer in relationships on screen coming about naturally, over time--some of the best on screen relationships are ones that came about when the two characters interacted on screen and over time developed a romantic dynamic. Look at Monica and Chandler on Friends,Buffy and Spike on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Joey and Pacey on Dawson's Creek, Kira and Odo on Deep Space Nine--none of those relationships were planned from the day the shows began. The chemistry between the characters came first, and then the writers gradually moved them towards relationships.

With Danny and Lindsay, it's the opposite. The writing is forcing two characters together who lack chemistry. There was something natural developing between Mac and Lindsay that could have gone somewhere down the line, and Danny had great chemistry with both Stella and Maka. So I really don't understand why a pair with no chemistry is being pushed when each person has better chemistry with others on the show.

I'm still hopeful (not optimistic, but hopeful) that the Danny/Lindsay pairing will be dropped. On Dawson's Creek, Joey was supposed to end up with Dawson, but the chemistry between her and Pacey was so strong that the writers bucked what was expected and went with what worked, making for a much more satisfying conclusion that it would have been otherwise.

Though I only see friendship between Flack and Stella, I'm open to the ship because I see it as something that could develop naturally over time. Though, I'm absolutely convinced Flack is in love with Danny, so I don't think it will. However, Hammerback's crush on Stella is worth exploring, and it would be cute if that went somewhere. They'd be kind of an odd pairing--kind of like Buffy and Spike or Kira and Odo--but they'd definitely be worth exploring.

 

[bklynCSIfanatic]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

Mac and Lindsay do share a natural camaderie and they have more of an understanding of how the other is layered. The same applies with Danny in his interactions with Stella, Maka, Aiden. The same figures in with Danny/Flack, Hawkes/Stella, Mac/Stella, Danny/Hawkes, Flack/Stella, Mac/Peyton. Danny/Lindsay have no true concept of each other and seem to be unreachable in their scenes and that's why it won't work.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

I'm a big believer in relationships on screen coming about naturally, over time--some of the best on screen relationships are ones that came about when the two characters interacted on screen and over time developed a romantic dynamic. Look at Monica and Chandler on Friends,Buffy and Spike on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Joey and Pacey on Dawson's Creek, Kira and Odo on Deep Space Nine--none of those relationships were planned from the day the shows began. The chemistry between the characters came first, and then the writers gradually moved them towards relationships.

I whole heartedly agree with you there. Those are the best relationships on tv shows, IMO: the ones that weren't planned from the begining. The actors, like the characters, grow and develop together so their chemistry is natural and easy, and when they do begin a relationship its no surprise, and not forced whatsoever.

With Danny and Lindsay, it's the opposite. The writing is forcing two characters together who lack chemistry. There was something natural developing between Mac and Lindsay that could have gone somewhere down the line, and Danny had great chemistry with both Stella and Maka. So I really don't understand why a pair with no chemistry is being pushed when each person has better chemistry with others on the show.

I think alot of it was the fact that Lindsay needed Danny to prop up her character-for alot of people, she wouldn't even have a leg to stand on by herself, and needs the attachment of a hot-leading guy to make her character tangible. Creating this "relationship" between the two of them only further damaged her chances of growing into a stand alone character, or finding another actor which she had true chemistry with.

Though I only see friendship between Flack and Stella, I'm open to the ship because I see it as something that could develop naturally over time.

What I love SO MUCH about CSINY is that, except for Lindsay, they all have great chemistry with each other. Stella/Mac, Stella/Flack, Stella/Hawkes (i saw this more when he was a coroner in season one, but since we havent seen him much lately....=[), all have potential for me because they all have natural, easy chemistry they don't even have to try for. I honestly have a hard time deciding which one I'd root for, because every single one would be natural for me. Danny, too, is great with Stella, had great chemistry with Aiden, and even in short scenes with Maka he had the same chemistry.

Really, any ship would be fine with me on NY if the natural, easy chemistry was there, and time was given to develop both characters...

 

[Cath]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

Cool, there's a debate thread for CSI:NY. I mean, I see the one for Las Vegas constantly pop up for obvious reasons but it's cool to know we have one for NY too. Here are my stances as far as many ship possibilities for this show are concerned. Keep in mind though that this is coming from someone who already has her ship preferences.

Mac/Stella - I'm not gonna lie: they're my OTP for this show. Stella has chemistry with all the guys but out of all her relationships with them, I think that the one with Mac is the relationship that is walking a fine line between friendship and love. Gary and Melina have fantastic chemistry and they don't have to say much to convey how much these 2 characters adore each other. All the characters advertently or inadvertently flirt with each other at one point or another during the series, but when Mac & Stella do it, the smiles reach their eyes and their looks sometimes linger too long to chalk it up to mere friendship. That said, I don't want them getting together anytime soon, considering how CSI writers mess up the pairings they bring together before the end of the series (see Danny/Lindsay and to a lesser extent Sara/Grissom on Las Vegas). But when the series ends or when Mac's team is replaced by another one, I'd like the writers to leave a clear hint that a possible romance could be explored between those two. Both characters would be good for each other because neither of them have clingy personalities, both of them would never pressure one another to take steps they're not yet ready to take and finally, both characters would be great companionship for one another after having lost so much (and they already are in a certain way since they have a relationship based on a solidly rooted friendship). Anyway, sorry for the long paragraph. I had to defend my OTP, you know?

Danny/Lindsay - I used to find them sweet but not so much since this week's episode aired. Whether they are in a relationship or not and whether Danny actually cheated or not remains to be seen, but in any case, sleeping with another woman when you haven't cleared up things up with a first one is sleezy no matter how you look at it. On the other hand though, Lindsay doesn't come off any better by trying, in a passive agressive manner, to get Danny to confide in her and people make a valid point that for someone who tried to deal with her past on her own, it's kinda hypocritical of Lindsay to try and force someone else to confide in her for the same kind of issues. So anyway, they're both immature in their own ways so who knows where that'll go in the future.

Stella/Flack - I love their friendship, but I don't see them as anything more though. They're both snarky characters so it's a joy to see them banter when they work together. I also love how Flack is protective and a good friend to Stella.

Stella/Hawkes - I love their dynamic and yes, at the end of 'Raising Shane', there seemed to be a moment of UST but that doesn't seem to be the norm in their relationship so again, to me, they're better off as friends.

Stella/Danny - I didn't know that there was a contingent shipping this pairing. I think that Danny admires Stella in a way but Stella often treats Danny as a child. Plus, add all the drama with Lindsay and I don't think that this pairing is gonna become canon anytime soon.

Mac/Lindsay - I like their dynamic on a platonic level, but as a romantic pairing, no, just no.:scream: And I saw what the writers were trying to do when they introduced Lindsay at the beginning of season 2. Not everyone can be a Grissom & Sara. I ship Grissom & Sara on Las Vegas, but this pairing on New York just doesn't work for me.

Danny/Flack - I didn't know there was cult following of this pairing until I went to the forums online. :lol: I was like 'What is everyone seeing that I missed?' and when I paid attention the second time around to the Danny/Flack scenes, it's so obvious the way Flack seems to be crushing on Danny it's hilarious. :guffaw: I wouldn't mind if the writers decided to explore some hoyay, but I don't know if they see things the same way we do.

Flack/Hawkes - The very few scenes I've seen with them I found hilarious, especially in 'Sleight Out of Hand'. :lol: But Flack doesn't seem to crush on Hawkes like he crushes on Danny. :lol: So in this case, better of as friends, but hilarious friends.

Flack/Angell - Their banter is cute but it's still too early to tell what the writers want to do with them. Angell has a lot of similarities with Aiden and I used to love Flack/Aiden.

Adam/Stella - Adam seems to be crushing on Stella. It's very cute but I think that it is one sided. I love the few interactions we got with them though.

Sid/Stella - Their banter is funny but again, better off as friends and Sid is married anyways.

I'm sure I've missed some pairings, but this is all I can come up with right now. :lol:

 

[Yumi696]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

My first and foremost OTP was definitely Danny and Don. God, there's all this subtle chemistry going on between them, and I think that they care deeply about each other. For example, in Run Silent, Run Deep, Danny turns to Don and talks to him about all this crazy stuff that's happening, and it really felt like they have such a connection. Of course, I'd never want TPTB to sink their hands into this pairing and ruin it like they've ruined DL (I'm not a big fan, and that's putting it nicely)... this pairing can stay in the fandom and develop on its own. Besides, we all know that Danny and Don are just in denial. They want to jump each other.

Even though I'm a Danny/Don shipper at heart, I still loved the Danny/Rikki development. They had an actual basis of their relationship (an unhealthy one, but an established basis nonetheless), and they had such great chemistry. As opposed, of course, to DL. Their scenes are more forced and flat-line than the Danny/Rikki scenes. It was such a great pairing. Too bad TPTB ruined it.

Also, I honestly think that Mac and Stella should get together. They have a lot of chemistry too, and it's obvious that there's a huge amount of trust between the two of them. However, I'm reluctant, because TPTB might ruin it as well.

And, finally, the last one, a relatively unknown one that will probably never come true: Danny/Adam. Seriously, after Snow Day, there was such potential for their relationship to develop into a close friendship. I mean, come on! They shared a traumatic experience, and had to watch each other get hurt. That does something to people. But, then again, TPTB isn't known for continuity.

Other pairings that I like, but aren't my OTPs:
~Danny/Aiden- It had such great potential, and there was always this subtle chemistry between them. And then they had to go ruin it and put Lindsay in the mix.
~Sheldon/Adam- I think Adam and Sheldon have gotten particularly close to each other, especially in Green Piece. I wouldn't mind a little more of that.
~Don/Jessica- I like this pairing mainly because the actress can really pull of the character well, and they fit well together.

Ships that I don't like:
~Lindsay/Anyone- I'm not fond of Lindsay's character. She was poorly written, and Anna cannot pull off the required emotions for a character like Lindsay.
~Don/Stella- I see them more as friends. There's potential there too, because they have such great chemistry together, but to me, they seem more like best friends, or brother and sister. Plus, I don't see her with anyone other than Mac.
~Adam/Kendall- Kendall's too... I don't know, she seems more like a Danny or Don kind of girl to me. I really can't see her with Adam.
~Adam/Stella- I can see that he has a crush on her, but... no. I really can't imagine Stella with anyone other than Mac, and that just makes me think of cradle-robbing. I know, it's mean... but that's the way I see it.
~Sid/Anyone- Come on, the guy is married.
~Don/Sheldon- Great potential, but they're not really in a lot of scenes together. It would be great if their relationship ever developed into a closer friendship. I'd probably be able to see it then... but honestly, TPTB isn't known for its character development either.