CSI Jumping the Shark?

[Raw_Alex]

Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

xfcanadian: You hit it exactly. Grissom has spent 6 seasons lecturing everyone and their dog about "don't have a social life, it just gets in the way". He has been especially harsh on Catherine (who honestly has earned much of it, as she seems to get herself in bad relationships way too easily). Now the shoe is on the other foot...

My fears for season 8 is having GSR become a major issue, Warrick's marriage / divorce thing to go crazy, and for him to end up with Catherine. At that point, they will have jumped the shark and a few other aquatic species on the way by.

 

[Desertwind]

Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

Sorry about Canada's ratings on CSI, but even in re-runs this summer CSI here, was never out ot the top ten in ratings 8/12..#3..8/19..#6..8/26..#2..9/9..#8 and last week #10.. and that's in re-runs.. it still holds it's own,[source, Neilsen Media Research] and I believe that the GSR romance has been handled beautifully, the "shaving scene' was 10 seconds, not hardly the whole show and other GSR moments, not much longer..& aas far as Grissom changing he's more content..happy and relaxed, he's better than ever, not so tense! the cases are still paramount important, just a footnote, on last night's CSI/NY there was a bedroom scene which was very steamy, so that's OK, but not the Vegas one.. seems like a double edged sword.. bottom line more fans like it then don't, not just my opinion a fact!

 

[LaSquisita]

sarahvma said:
I don't want to attack Catherine endlessly

Yes you do. This is a typical GSR pattern. Catherine makes them crazy because they think she is such a threat to them.
Anyway, you just keep repeating yourself. That is not interesting.

Shipwrecked said:
Shark!JUMP is a tough topic, but let me just tell you this if you care. According to Jumptheshark.com, the majority doesn't think CSI has jumped the shark in the first place.
Really, go look.

But the majority on this site does think so. You are confusing majority with plurality, which is the single category with the most votes. Also, the votes on the site are not remotely close to being an accurate sampling of the entire CSI audience, only the Internet portion. This portion probably skews young and that is where most of the GSR group falls.
You need to add all the votes for "Jumped the Shark" together. Then you see the real majority. There are at least two headings covering GSR, numbers two and three, "They did it. (Sara and Grissom)" and "Paired 34 year-old Sara Sidle with 50 year-old Gil Grissom".
Add just those together and the total is 3006. 3006 is more than the 2763 for "Never jumped".
This last number seems to swell immensely every time GSR is mocked, though.
LaSquisita

 

[Desertwind]

HMMM, the GSR as caters to the young, how do you explain me, I'm in the William Petersen age group and that ain't young, and many age groups are attracted to this scenerio, I think I've mentioned my neighbor she's 70, and one of my customers, is 62. and they feel the same, and both are in love with GSR, actually on my travels with the public I've found that the age group that likes this scenerio/paring, are from 30-70, and the younger crowd two teenagers find that it's not what they want, one [an old friend] wanted her with Greggie, and another said 'YUCK" so, that really doesn't hold water on it only attracts the young viewers! also age doens't have anything to do with "love" when someone or anyone sees something that they feel is right, no matter, they go with it! An I think the writers know what their doing, and give the viewers what they want , and to bad someone couldn't poll the millions of viewers, about their opinions, it would probably range from I love it, I hate it. I don't care or, I'm nuetral Oh, and Marg Helgenberger will be 50 in Nov. where does she fit in this mix?!on age I mean? maybe she's living her 2nd childhood as well!

 

[LaSquisita]

desertwind said:
HMMM, the GSR as caters to the young, how do you explain me, I'm in the William Petersen age group and that ain't young, and many age groups are attracted to this scenerio, I think I've mentioned my neighbor she's 70, and one of my customers, is 62. and they feel the same, and both are in love with GSR, so that really doesn't hold water on it only attracts the young viewers!

Well, at your age you should be able to tell the difference between most and all. It's not hard.
Maybe it's the onset of second childhood. Enjoy it. :lol:
LaSquisita

 

[S_Bright]

Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

Raw_Alex said:
My fears for season 8 is having GSR become a major issue, Warrick's marriage / divorce thing to go crazy, and for him to end up with Catherine. At that point, they will have jumped the shark and a few other aquatic species on the way by.

*laughs head off* That probably is the fate of CSI with its current writers. It jumped ed of S6 and it's been happily swimming in the shark tank ever since. Only the removal of the source of the soap (GSR) will save the show and take it back to what made it popular; solving crimes and allowing character growth by having the characters react to the crimes in different ways.

 

[Elsie]

LaSquisita said:
But the majority on this site does think so.

I can't read through the whole of this thread to clarify this point, so I may be off the mark. But, it's never a good idea to assume or claim anything from the internet is indicative of overall opinion. Or that the opinions of some can be generalised for the whole site.

'Jumping the shark'. Having never heard this term before I had to look up wikipedia to see what it meant, and considering pretty much anything from ratings, character romance, ridiculous plot lines etc. can be considered 'jumping the shark' then nearly every show I've ever seen has gone there at some point. If Happy Days continued for 100 episodes after their 'jump the shark' debacle then can it really be considered the point at which the end was in site? I for one would be happy for CSI to continue for another 100 episodes, but I consider that unlikely.

I don't think that ending an on show relationship would alleviate the problem, or in fact that the relationship is at all a significant turning point in the shows fortunes. I would be more concerned that the show simply cannot continue to be original without having to use cases that require fans to completely dispend with reality. So if CSI did 'jump the shark' then IMO it did so with episodes such as 'Living Legend'. If that is the best that the writers can offer then it really is the beginning of the end for CSI.

To compeletely generalise with what is essentially my own opinion, the majority of people watching the show are not also sat around talking about it on the internet. We represent a small minority of fans who take this a lot more seriously than most. If I did a straw poll of people I know who like CSI and ask them about it, the majority will say they like it, it's a great show, is Grissom still with that girl, and that they are glad because if anything the 'will they, won't they' storylines were more distracting to the show than the relationship has been since they got together. Like it or not, these things happen on every show, because however interesting the science is, we wouldn't all still be tuned in if we were given nothing about our favourite characters.

I don't think that Grissom's choice of partner, or the ethics of a workplace relationship really has anything to do with 'jumping the shark' by the way, unless the suggestion is that the shows premise has been completely altered. And this thread looks more like an argument for and against a particular ship than anything else, because actually the premise of the show at the moment hasn't really been altered, it is still for the majority of the time about the crimes, about using (often ridiculous and unbelievable) science to solve them, and a little bit about the characters themselves, to give us a reason to tune in every week. I honestly believe that next week's premiere will be one of the highest rating premieres, so whether they have 'jumped the shark' or not, you can't deny that somewhere along the line they must still be doing something right.

 

[TallyHo]

Gentle Reminder To All:

Let's all just chill on the "GSR" thing because this is NOT the Forum for "pro" and "con" discussions on "GSR" as a 'ship entity. Please feel free to move that over to the "GSR" thread in Shipper Central.

Character bashing also not advised.

Finally, even if one doesn't agree with opinions of another, please be respectful when replying/commenting. No wrong or right. Just different.

Thank you.

 

[sarahvma]

Yes you do. This is a typical GSR pattern. Catherine makes them crazy because they think she is such a threat to them.
Anyway, you just keep repeating yourself. That is not interesting.

Took it to PM.

But the majority on this site does think so.

Were that the case, we wouldn't be discussing it, and the discussions wouldn't be divided fairly down the middle.

I'm sure that quite a few posters here think that way, but trying to end a discussion by declaring, "I'm right and everyone thinks so" isn't going to get you very far.

Anyway, to conclude my point: CSI in peril, CSIs breaking the rules, and CSIs putting others in danger professionally or literally has been a part of the show since the very first episode. While I agree that too much of that can be a shark jump, we can't treat one of those stories this late in the show as though it's the first time that it's happened, or even the first time that it's happened to this magnitude.

That said, one of my gripes with House is that it's the same formulaic pattern in every single episode. So I do agree that a show can jump the shark simply by constantly repeating the same plot again and again.

 

[Raw_Alex]

The idea of GSR "good or bad" isn't so much the subject here. In a sense, especially after having re-watched the cliff hanger last night, it is clear that the relationship is a bad thing. While Natalie might be a very observant girl that noticed something that other might not have, the reality is that the GSR has been creeping into their day to day work, and that is the first sign that it will hurt their ability to work.

The look on all of the faces in the room when Grissom says "she is trying to hurt the one I love" is classic, and probably very indicative of the longer term reactions here. I am personally expecting S8-01 to be very cheesy and the whole group very supportive, but by episode 2 or 3 Icky Ecklie should be on the scene to jam this down Grissom's throat.

I really think that GSR (good or bad) will have a profound affect on the way the lab is set up and run and how the characters interact for all of season 8. I would also not be shocked to see either Catherine or Grissom end their time at CSI by the end of season 8 (their contracts are both up).

I have a feeling this may be an ongoing conflict the wanders all through season 8.

Desertwind: One of the things about GSR is that it appeals to specifically two groups: The younger, more 'ship oriented viewers (they related to Sara's position, older man taking care of a kind lost soul) and to older people such as yourself (wow, look, love can come even to a man in his 50s with greying hair...). Both groups can relate to the the whole situation from their own standpoint, and that is good.

The bad news? The target market for TV these days is 18-49 years old. I am in that group, and I pine for the days of late season 1, season 2... even season 3. When crime, solving crimes, and discovering things they knew nothing about was at the top of the list.

We hover close to the shark tank, and even according to that website the show has jumped. Oh well.

 

[sarahvma]

The idea of GSR "good or bad" isn't so much the subject here. In a sense, especially after having re-watched the cliff hanger last night, it is clear that the relationship is a bad thing. While Natalie might be a very observant girl that noticed something that other might not have, the reality is that the GSR has been creeping into their day to day work, and that is the first sign that it will hurt their ability to work.

I do agree with that. Between the conversation that they had in Ending Happy (potentially in front of witnesses) to the arm-brush, or even Grissom holding Sara on the way home in Empty Eyes (look for the janitor watching them), they have slowly been forgetting themselves at work.

But that's really - again - no different than any show with a workplace romance. And also, Grissom has been telling the crew not to bring their personal lives to work, yes - but he's been a hypocrite before Sara many times over. Lady Heather, Teri Miller, his problems with drug dealers, his problems with those prejudiced against the deaf... Grissom has brought his private stuff to work plenty of times as well, and this isn't the first time that he's violated his own code.

The look on all of the faces in the room when Grissom says "she is trying to hurt the one I love" is classic, and probably very indicative of the longer term reactions here. I am personally expecting S8-01 to be very cheesy and the whole group very supportive, but by episode 2 or 3 Icky Ecklie should be on the scene to jam this down Grissom's throat.

If they *are* supportive, I think it will have more to do with the fact that Sara almost died. I mean, honestly - how can you scold someone when their secret lover was nearly killed? What I would like, though, would be to see some reactions privately amongst the CSIs when Grissom and/or Sara are not around. I think that the crew feeling a little bit cheated or lied to or concerned would be realistic, and more welcome than - as you said - a big happy cheesefest.

I really think that GSR (good or bad) will have a profound affect on the way the lab is set up and run and how the characters interact for all of season 8. I would also not be shocked to see either Catherine or Grissom end their time at CSI by the end of season 8 (their contracts are both up).

I kind of wish that CSI itself would just choose to end it after this year. I loved Season 7, and I hope Season 8 is just as good, but I think that 8 years is a pretty good run, and they'll start flirting with some ER-style craposity if they try to keep going without the original cast.

We hover close to the shark tank, and even according to that website the show has jumped. Oh well.

What website? Jump the shark? Never jumped is still about 1000 points ahead of the next option.

 

[Raw_Alex]

What website? Jump the shark? Never jumped is still about 1000 points ahead of the next option.

Not really... the second and third place items are similar versions of the same thing. Add them together, and GSR is a jumping moment.

I think that from CBS's point of view, CSI is to strong a franchise to just let drop at the end of the season. Look at Law and Order and NBC, which has run probably 5 seasons past it's sell date and still goes on. But for CBS to be able to keep CSI anywhere near the top, they need to have an orderly transition. At some point (maybe as soon as this season) original characters will start to drop out. The trick is to get new people in the door BEFORE the old people leave, and give the fans a chance to attach themselves to the newer characters as well. It is one of the reasons why I feel that the "new girl" coming in for 4 or 5 episodes might end up recurring later in the year if she scores well with the viewers. It is also the reason I think that perhaps Archie will move out into the field this year as a CSI trainee, which would open up another lab rat spot to test out new players.

My feeling is that once GSR gets blown up, handled, or otherwise concluded (including the potential that Sara doesn't come back to work), I think that the whole shop will change dramatically and season 8 will be a more powerful crime and crime related character development year. But if GSR gets dragged on for most of the season, I think we can look forward to a slack soap filled season of bedroom scenes and meaningful glances over dead bodies.

 

[sarahvma]

Not really... the second and third place items are similar versions of the same thing. Add them together, and GSR is a jumping moment.

As I said before, that wasn't the case for a long time, and then someone posted a link to that site, and "magically" overnight the GSR options rose by about 1000 points. But that's neither here nor there. The fact of the matter is that unless you go door-to-door to all 30 million people who ever watched CSI, we can't ever decide why they stopped tuning in. We can only really be responsible for, and aware of, our own decisions and reasons.

I enjoyed Season 7, thus I choose to continue watching. If I feel they go overboard this year, and the show starts to tank, I will stop watching.

I can point at a hundred polls that support my theory that people liked Season 7, and I can point at a hundred polls that refute it. I love stats, I love polls, but I'm aware that in them (especially the ones where multi-voting and cookie-deleting is possible) they're not going to be 100% indicative of the total audience.

Has CSI jumped the shark? In the end, as you've said many times, I believe, that's sort of my question to answer for myself. So long as I'm still entertained, and the show is still on the air, it doesn't matter if 5 or 50 million other people are watching and enjoying.

The ferryboat arc triad at Grey's Anatomy was probably three of the most-hated episodes in the show's history, and they got probably the highest ratings ever for their show.

Conversely, 30 Rock fans all really adore the show, and they get horrid ratings.

I think that from CBS's point of view, CSI is to strong a franchise to just let drop at the end of the season.

I agree, but I wish it wasn't so.

My feeling is that once GSR gets blown up, handled, or otherwise concluded (including the potential that Sara doesn't come back to work), I think that the whole shop will change dramatically and season 8 will be a more powerful crime and crime related character development year.

That's what I hope for as well. And I think, taking a look at the personal seasons vs. case-related seasons pattern of the past, it's more than likely that this is the route they'll go. Last year was hugely personal, this year I'd love for it to be all about creepy/quirky/funny/heart-wrenching well-written cases with stellar acting, but not necessarily a ton of backstory stuff. 'cept maybe for Warrick. Throw the poor guy a bone!

 

[Raw_Alex]

I am thinking that Warrick is certainly due some camera time, I wouldn't be shocked to have his personal life become one of the ongoing story arcs of the year. He has certainly been light on screen time the last couple of years except as second banana on some cases.

I think that this year a shakeup is inevitable. I am really not betting that all the players that start this year will be around to see season 9, and unless the ratings tank, I think CSI will have a fairly long life, which is good for us fans.

 

[bethybug]

Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

Hmm...I don't think CSI is in that much danger of 'Jumping the Shark'. I mean GSR is really not that big of a deal as long as they're both on a level playing field. THe miniature killer was awesome but it sorta ran it's course. And Sara in peril? COme on, everybody on the show's been in at least some sort of peril at one point or another. SO jumping the shark? Nah.