CSI Jumping the Shark?

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If you mean me, then I am referring to the L.E. part and as you pointed out they were put on different shifts, so that they would not be working together and therefore they are less likely to have problems. The problem is on the show or like in RL even dating or married, if you go into a situation like in which one of them is in a dangerous position emotions take over, everything else becomes secondary, no person Real or fictional can or should be in that position, if they are then someone will end up injured or worse.

The problem with the others you mentioned is that they are not carrying a badge and a gun and therefore are less likely to get themselves or their partner (if they are involved and working the same shift/case) injured or worse. I don't think IMO anyone is saying you if you meet the right person for you, you can never have that relationship, but rather if you meet that person and want one then you both have to make some sacrifices to maintain both a work atmosphere and personal atmosphere that is separate.

In the show CSI has been having them hide the fact that they are a couple, and again not being of any ship (fence sitter only not for or against them) the fact that they hide it, put them both in a situation that could ultimately cause them problems. If they were upfront to start with either their co workers or a superior (above grissom) then agreed not to work the same cases, I don't see where there would have been a problem. But the fact that they didn't and it only came out because one was put into a dangerous position allows that emotional side to take over and we all remember Grissom preaching the mantra to Nick, to never let his emotions lead him when it comes to a case.

Case in point Nick is kidnapped and emotions take over to the point they run in circles, take dangerous chances to save him, if that had backfired what would have happened, Case in point with Sara she is in a dangerous position and once again co workers are worried. Friends who work with each other worry about each other granted, but those who are further invested in that person carries the heavier burden and be it RL (real life) or fictional that burden or whatever you want to call it, could ultimately be a problem when it comes to that situation. -- In RL or Fiction those emotions as IMO make you do things that you might not ordinairly do which in turn renders you dangerous to yourself and other.

I am not saying that Sara and Grissom can not have a relationship, I am just saying that the ramifications of that relationship could be a big big problem down the line regarding alot of issues.

Course if you didn't mean me, then umm my bad. Also folks pardon the spelling errors I am tired and they look right to me at this point, my spell check is sleeping and distrubing it could be painful. ;)
 
No, Destiny I was responding to Raw_Alex on people in the workplace..I was just wondering what that meant, because it happens all over the world, not just the ones I mentioned, and the police officers, [went to a police ball] and I even asked them, and they said as long as they kept it professional and it didn't get in the way of their 'work' it was fine! But they do work on opposite shifts, so I get where you're coming from totally.. it could be sticky. and with Grissom and Sara, time will tell, and to me being the romantic that I am, love would take precedent over work, right or wrong!
 
This is just way too complicated for me to try to figure out. In fact, it's harder to figure out than a math problem. I'm trying to make sense of all the rules telling us what we can and cannot discuss here, and it is giving me a giant headache. I'll just leave it to the smart people to post in this thread, and sit back dumb and happy that I can still post in the other areas.
 
Desertwind: Actually, you sort of make my point for me. In each of the cases you site, the couple is working at different times or in different parts of the same business. One is not a direct report or a direct supervisor.

So yes, the answer is that there could continue to be a ship (and I am with Destiny on this one, I fence sit on the whole ship stuff, it isn't really why I watch the show), but it would be impossible for them to work together in their current setup.

So, assuming that (and it seems logical), how do you get from the current untennable situation to one that can be tolerated by all involved, without going over the shark tank to get there? Just like the Greg lawsuit thing (it's okay, the city just settled... after a huge half a season buildup), they could just sort of blow it off anf ignore it. But like the emperors new clothes, some of us can see the problem (and the dangling story line, as it were).

Toots: I have had a pretty long back and forth in the past with TBonz about this sort of stuff. I decided to give this place one more try to see, and this thread almost pushed me out the door again. Pruning thread titles... well...
 
I think, though, honestly the believability of Grissom and Sara staying together or not wouldn't really be a shark jump. Plenty of shows have done very against-the-rules relationships in the workplace and it didn't cause a SJ.

What it comes down to is whether it's good or not. Which is why it's never really been a ship issue. For me, if I see too much more Catherine drama, it's a shark jump because it's gotten to a point where I don't think they can make it original. They've gone in circles with her, and she doesn't seem any different after it (which is part of where my "followup" argument comes in). Because Catherine seems to brush off everything, and because you know her drama never has any consequences, it's just not interesting and it winds up feeling like a waste of space.

Greg's thing could have been like that, but luckily they actually showed him going through it and showed him dealing with the reprocussions (even if he wasn't to "blame").

Lack of impact is what causes it, IMO. With regards to ships, often ships can cause a SJ because they are SO built up to the point where the two being together will never be more tension-filled than when they were yearning for one-another. They never played GSR like that. We got indications on both sides that they wanted to be together now and then, but it was not a constant barrage.

It's when you feel that something was done purely for ratings, and then taken away, I think. Sort of like with the Fonz's original Shark Jump. There was no reason for it, and it was just sort of this big "moment" that was kind of stupid.

As long as we are still talking vehemently about certain plotlines with interest (like GSR) - they're still inherantly interesting, even if you don't like them.

We haven't jumped yet, but with lack of follow-up on Sara, or with the "new kid on the block" sticking around for no reason other than to bring in a younger viewership, or with more pointless Cath!Drama, I think the show could.
 
Well, my feeling was that there was three major story arcs in season 7, Miniature Killer, Greg's whole deal in the alley and the following legal and lawsuit action, and GSR. I have a feeling in some ways that GSR was allowed to flourish and be visible specifically to create the tension of the cliff hanger.

Yeah, I know... writers usually don't go that far ahead, but it is pretty obvious that those arcs existed for a large part of the year, and having two of them collide to finish the season off is a good thing.

However, when you do something like that, the shark tank is never far away.

If the ship isn't required to float season 8, will it just get shuffled off into the background and ignored? Was it just a play to keep up with Greys, but really didn't do the job? Could we be so lucky in season 8 and get back to the crimes, criminals, and cases?

Like you said, there are many ways to make it to the shark tank, and at this point, apparently few ways to avoid it.
 
It's not that I think that there are few ways to avoid it, just that it is often easier to see (as a viewer) what would cross that line than to say, "Uh... yeah... making it good?"

I mean, I can pick a handful of things that I think would cause them to tumble, but at the base of my argument, I *am* saying that so long as they continue down the path that they did for Season 7 they'll be fine. That doesn't mean more characterization, just efficient storytelling (whether it be season-long or episode-long) and (some) character development.

In truth, CSI has always gone in waves with its seasons as to whether they're going to be more based around the criminalists or more about the crimes. Season 1, to me, was *very* character-driven with quite a few continuing storylines like Nick and Kristy, Warrick and the gambling, Grissom and Teri, Catherine and her husband fighting over custody, etc.

Then Season 2, more about cases. Season 3 dealt quite a bit with Grissom's hearing and Catherine's family. Season 4 touched on little things, but no really big "arcs". Season 5 dealt with the team breaking up, Sara's backstory and more of Catherine's family and relationship issues.

Season 6 almost seemed character-free apart from the last 10 seconds of the finale, and then we had 7 being character-driven yet again.

So... I think that they have purposefully done this pattern in the past, and will likely continue to do it, because it satisfies both those who want the character stuff and those who do not.

I love continuing storylines, other people want each episode to feel self-contained. And with this system, at the very least each side gets sort of a nice solid year to themselves.
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

well i think that it would be okay with the GSR because they always talk about their "HISTORY" together before they became boss/employee so i don't think its a probablem. i mean lets say for instance grissom wasn't her boss and just another csi (not saying he isn't) and he got a promotion to become boss that wouldn't mean they would have to end their relationship i think it would just mean that they can't let their feeling for each other get in the way of their jobs (although it kinda does) plus its not like grey's were grissom is always choosing sara to be working with him unlike derek always asking meredith on greys (glad i don't watch that show anymore)
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

NicksSexyBabe said:
i think it would just mean that they can't let their feeling for each other get in the way of their jobs (although it kinda does) plus its not like grey's were grissom is always choosing sara to be working with him unlike derek always asking meredith on greys (glad i don't watch that show anymore)
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Don't tell me they got the boss-subordinate sex angle from Grey's too!!!!

I have personally decided that only two things will make CSI jump the shark for me this season: Sara is pregnant OR Britney Spears as a guest star. I'm fully prepared for anything else, and my expectations are low so I hope they will be exceeded!
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

Grizzom, I gotta like your attitude. The good news is that Britney Spears can't barely function in real life, let alone show up on time for an acting job, so that won't happen... and the Sara pregnant rumors have been running for about 4 seasons now, so no biggie.

NicksSexyBabe: You are hitting on sort of the problem here. If Grissom and Sara were on an equal level (say both CSI3s), it would be easier. A relationship between Catherine and Warrick, as an example, would probably be acceptable. However, this being law enforcement and with these people often called to give evidence in court, they need to be very sure that they have no conflicts that can be raised in court. "Mr Grissom, are you agreeing with Ms Sidle's findings because she is correct, or because she served you breakfast in bed this morning?" Anything that gives defence lawyers a little leverage can be used.

sarahvma: i think of the big differences from say season 1 to season 7 is that season 1's character developments were almost all related to work in some fashion, or something that would block the character ability to do the work. Catherine going home to hug her daughter in the middle of the shift, example, is a way to show how that happens. In season 7, much of the character developments seemed to be unrelated to work, more pure soap and less "expansions" of the character as it related to work. I find that very different.

I am a little afraid that season 8 will ramp up the soap items to try to steal back viewers from Greys, especially at the start of the season when Greys will be shaken up by a couple of characters leaving the show and most of the existing story arcs having been terminated at the end of their last season. If that happens, it is going to start to smell like shark poop to me.
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

Gil and Sara would have kept their secret as long as they could. Natalie outed them.
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First off, no - she didn't. Grissom voluntarily said that, and honestly if he wanted to keep it quiet, he could have just said that the killer figured that hurting one of his CSIs would be payback. In fact, it was Grissom who elected to drag up the pictures of himself and Sara at the crime scene. Again, he could have just justified it by saying that she must have assumed his co-workers meant a lot to him, etc.

Thank you, sarahvma. This was my point exactly. Catherine is taking full responsibility even though she has every right to spread the blame. She is protecting the rest of the staff from any further investigation into who left the hot plate on. She probably figures that there has been enough pain and maybe she thinks that it was Greg.
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So you're offering, as a comparison, Catherine who continued to deceive the person in charge and, with a flippant attitude (go and watch the clip), apologized for it and asked what else he wanted from her?

Covallo seems to be as big a jerk as Eckley, so she is just shutting him out.
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So you have Catherine deciding what her higher-ups need to know, and that's admirable? How is that any different from Grissom keeping his relationship with Sara from Ecklie? He has decided what Ecklie does and does not need to know about the lab and its employees.

That's a pretty weak justification. In that case, Ecklie's a mean guy, so Sara and Grissom are justified in hiding their relationship.

Strange. Catherine should handle Sara even thought you think Cath is so irresponsible and dangerous.
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No. My point was not that Catherine alone was irresponsible and dangerous, but that every member of the team has done something irresponsible or dangerous at some point during this show. This wasn't meant to be an attack on Catherine alone, but the point about the lab explosion continued to get contested.

Fine - I can come up with plenty of occasions where Catherine takes absolutely no responsibility for her actions which cause the harm of others:

What about when she insisted upon telling the husband that his wife was having an affair, and he wound up murdering her lover? Catherine showed absolutely no remorse, and even told Grissom that it was because he was a loner that he "just didn't understand" and completely disregarded her supervisor's warning.

I don't want to attack Catherine endlessly - as I've said, other CSIs have done reckless and irresponsible things, but do not try to tell me that Catherine is a paragon of truth and justice, because just like every member of the team she has screwed up without justification.

Yes, Grissom and Sara's affair is probably against protocol. But it is *not* AS dangerous as deciding what a husband needs to hear when it has nothing to do with the case and is completely against personal objectivity (thus leading to the death of another person) and not as dangerous as potentially failing to follow procedure and nearly (with the help of whoever left the hot plate on) killing two co-workers.

It just isn't. Sorry.

Whether or not she meant to do those things is irrelevant. They were reckless and irresponsible. And thus I think that trying to link a relationship that might be against the rules onto that as being not only just as bad, but worse is completely ridiculous.

Should they see reprocussions? Yes. Is it as bad as Warrick visiting a suspect after a case and threatening him, or Grissom seen (in front of witnesses) screaming at a drug dealer who hasn't been found guilty yet, or Nick throwing a suspect against the wall of an interrogation, or twice spending the night with a dominatrix who is a potential suspect, or Sara showing up to work having had a few drinks, or Warrick leaving a rookie CSI at a crime scene by herself so he can go gambling, or bribing another CSI to take his shift so he can settle gambling debts, or Sara yelling at two potential wife abusers or Brass threatening to kill his daughter's boyfriend, or Sofia going to visit her former supervisor when she has been forbidden to enter the CSI building during the investgation...

on and on and on.

No, it does not have the same irresponsible and direct correlation to harming cases as those other actions which we've seen many, many times.

So long as the paperwork and the supervision was done the right way? It doesn't matter. If it was not, Grissom is obviously a little lacking in sense. But them sleeping together is just not the same as those other examples. And if that's jumping the shark, why has it not jumped the hundred or so times that things like those I mentioned above have happened?
 
I don't think that Gris and Sara's relationship should send too many shocks. They have always backed each other up when it came to Ecklie, he expects it. Nesting Dolls was before the got together. They protected each other against Ecklie and Catherine.
Brass seems to already have known and Warrick is the least likely to be surprised. He has a high degree of intelligence when it comes to other peoples emotions and he has always Grissom's favourite CSI.

As for the Teacher/ Student thing, they both full adults not college level with the distinct possibility that they crossed the line when Sara was in college. Her feelings for Grissom and her natural ease with him don't come from a mire crush. In the first season they behaved like past lovers, in the way they looked at each other and the talk of sex.

Grissom has always been supportive of Nick and Warrick and he has covered for Catherine many times.They owe him support and a little loyalty. If Grissom and Sara were having an affair, that would be a problem. I have worked in Government this sort of thing is not unusual.
Catherine is the one most likely to cause trouble, because she likes to be the centre of attention with men and Sara has got Grissom in so deep, that he declared his feelings for her to his team. and she has no room to complain about unprofessional behaviour.
 
Should they see reprocussions? Yes. Is it as bad as Warrick visiting a suspect after a case and threatening him, or Grissom seen (in front of witnesses) screaming at a drug dealer who hasn't been found guilty yet, or Nick throwing a suspect against the wall of an interrogation, or twice spending the night with a dominatrix who is a potential suspect, or Sara showing up to work having had a few drinks, or Warrick leaving a rookie CSI at a crime scene by herself so he can go gambling, or bribing another CSI to take his shift so he can settle gambling debts, or Sara yelling at two potential wife abusers or Brass threatening to kill his daughter's boyfriend, or Sofia going to visit her former supervisor when she has been forbidden to enter the CSI building during the investgation...
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Geez. I remember those times. I agree with you Sarahvma. There are bigger things than Grissom and Sara. There are definitely bigger things.

Unless something gets out to the public about two CSIs having a relationship, I can't see it being a terribly big deal. Superiors will get mad. But it's not like Ecklie's going to go out to the world and say: "Here are the two CSIs that did it and handled the city's evidence." That would ruin the reputation of the lab.

Shark!JUMP is a tough topic, but let me just tell you this if you care. According to Jumptheshark.com, the majority doesn't think CSI has jumped the shark in the first place.

Really, go look.
 
And "curiously" when someone originally posted the results from Jump the Shark - which showed Lady Heather, Sofia and Catherine's problems above GSR, overnight there were 1000 new votes for GSR.

...certainly was curious.
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

sarahvma said:
Just read that the Canadian CTV had plucked CSI off their 9 PM lot and given it to GA. Way to go CSI - less viewers will do this to you. Way to go *g*
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CSI is consistently getting more viewers than Grey's Anatomy and is usually the number one show on Canadian TV. 8 is actually a much less competative time and will probably give CSI even more viewers.
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Not last season...it was always number one, even in the summer, but this last season and over the summer, not even in the top 10 for the greater toronto ratings (1/3 of canada's population)...the ratings for CSI dropped quite a bit in a short time, which is never a good sign. And CTV's 9 pm slot is ALWAYS the higher rated show. The fact that they are moving it, is not a good thing.

Lets face the facts. GSR fans argue the storyline is only a small part of the show, but look at all the messages, it certainly looks like it from the message board that it has taken over the show. The CBS message board is full of 'LIKEOMGTOTALLYCUTE' *squee* posts about GSR, and they told anyone against GSR to stop watching the show, because it was their show now. I can't imagine tptb to be very happy about that stuff.

Yes, the show has jumped the shark...they changed grissom!! I don't want to see romance crap, that is why I don't watch GA. Love letters, secret romance, older boss with a younger female and shaving?? gag me with a broomstick, i think CSI has entered into the most cliche romance on tv domain. I am not too surprised at the dumbing down of the show, it is an american show, and it always happens!

The ethics of the relationship isn't even about real life vs. tv shows...it is about how Grissom viewed ethics in the past 6 seasons. He is a lying hypocrite now!!
 
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