CSI Jumping the Shark?

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Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

sarahvma said:
Just on CTV.
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I went to look and found CSI:NY and not CSI... even though the directory on expressvu specifically said CSI (albeit with a generic show descrption).

Interesting, Leaping Lizards was just on Spike. It is interesting to watch the gathering clouds.
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

Honestly, in answer to your actual question, Raw Alex, I think that it could go either way. A lot of the answer lies in how they do follow-up whether or not Sara dies. CSI is notorious for just "forgetting" that major, career-altering storylines ever happened.

I think if they harp too hard on this they could risk going overboard, and I think if they totally brush it off like with Grave Danger, they're in trouble.

Jumping the shark, as I said, has become way too subjective. I mean, it used to mean that moment at which you absolutely knew the show sucked, and not just because something didn't go the way you wanted it to.

I think House jumped the shark during the Christmas thing with the stupid cop storyline that just "disappeared"

I think Grey's Anatomy jumped with Meredith's stupid coma recovery and Izzy and George sleeping together, because both went to fits of ridiculousness that the show can't really believably climb down from, but both have tried their best to bury.

I think a real shark jump is when something totally crazy happens, and it isn't aknowledged as being a little bit hokey. The miniature thing, while not necessary hokey, was made a *big* deal of. If they try to brush this off, or if they make everything about it, they're sunk.

But considering how much I liked the well-crafted stories of Season 7, I have faith that they won't.
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

Sarahvma, honestly, Grey's pretty much jumped the shark in the first few weeks of season 1, and didn't get better from there. IMHO, they leased all the big shark tanks, set up a bunch of ramps, and put all their characters on jet powered rollerblades. It actually makes me ill to watch.

Season 7 was for me the best season since probably season 3 or 4. I am a huge fan of the serial killer arcs, especially when they do not dominate every show. It got a little silly towards the end (including the lab rat show), but for me it helps to break the 48 minute "and they resolve everything" problem that many crime shows face.

I certainly hope they don't just blow this off. The only thing worse that jumping the shark is pulling a Newhart ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newhart#.22The_Last_Newhart.22 - the "it was all a dream" excuse).
 
Fair enough but then be specific and appropriate in your thread title e.g. "CSI Jumping the Shark?" , followed by sub-topics aka MK to use as illustration. Placing "GSR" as the first word in your title confused the issue, hence the request for the clarification on my part.

I would also check your attitude at the door because it is not warranted and won't be tolerated.

To All Other Folks:

Now that the intent of the thread has been clarified, Destiny and I suggest you post along these lines and keep in plain sight.

Thank you.
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

sarahvma said:
CSI is consistently getting more viewers than Grey's Anatomy and is usually the number one show on Canadian TV. 8 is actually a much less competative time and will probably give CSI even more viewers.
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The 9 PM spot is the spot that interests the advertisors the most - thus it's always given to the show that is expected to draw in the largest number of adult (economically solvent) viewers.

That CSI has had to give it up is a sign that either
a) the audience has shifted to a younger, poorer one
b) the audience is too small to interest the big buck ad providers.

It's all a question of money and CSI obvisously has shown not to have the audience it once had. And yes, it is another sign of CSI having jumped the shark.
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Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

Somebody at that wikipedia article seems to think CSI jumped at end of season 5?

"When a high-profile guest writer-director (e.g., Woody Allen, Quentin Tarantino or Hal Prince) is brought onto the show's crew to write or direct one or more episodes. These are usually people from the theater or film industry with a long-standing record of writing or directing critically or commercially acclaimed films and stage productions."

This seems like a strange criterion to me, since it seems as if they would be introducing excellence. Will we look back and see GD as the beginning of the end? I notice from his IMDB entry that Tarantino directed an episode of ER back in the 90's, but that didn't seem to hurt it. :)

But it brings up another, perhaps subtler, way that shows could jump the shark or at least change enough to jar their audience - when the experience of working on the show becomes more important to the people running it, than consistency with the original vision. For instance, the Chicago Tribune TV columnist (can't remember her name) specifically suggested that the actors may be bored with procedural prop work and may be demanding some character work. GSR would be one of the easiest, cheapest ways to satisfy those kinds of requests. Perhaps the writers were even deliberately trying to balance that out with a more engaging multi-arc story in the MCSK line, so that it (GSR) couldn't claim to be the main focus of season 7.

I'm probably stating the uber-obvious here.
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

The 9 PM spot is the spot that interests the advertisors the most - thus it's always given to the show that is expected to draw in the largest number of adult (economically solvent) viewers.

That CSI has had to give it up is a sign that either
a) the audience has shifted to a younger, poorer one
b) the audience is too small to interest the big buck ad providers.

It's all a question of money and CSI obvisously has shown not to have the audience it once had. And yes, it is another sign of CSI having jumped the shark.
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The problem (and the confusing part) again is that CSI always gets more key demo people, always gets a far bigger audience, and is usually #1. So while yes - normally that is the truth, it still seems bizzare that in Canada - where the competition hasn't really taken a toll - they would switch them out of that time.

If we were talking about CBS, that would be one thing. But also keep in mind that while CSI's ratings are down, it's still the number one scripted show on TV, and CBS's (which is a powerhouse network) number one show. CSI may be down, but since almost all major shows fell about 20% last season, it's still a huge success by comparison.
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

Grizzom, I think that for many people, nothing is as obvious as you think. Looking at the history of CSI over the 7 season, the changes are pretty obvious.

One of the things about character development, especially relationship-wise is that it is good for the actors and comparatively cheap for the producers. No special effects, no extra actors, no nothing. It has been why, IMHO, that many of the shows since season 4 have had only one crime scene instead of two or three, and more and more often when there is more than one crime scene, they are related. "Character development and personal relationships / hardships" is a great way to use up screen time comparatively cheaply.

For the actors, it is a great time because personal developments of a character on this sort of show is sort of like self-gratification. Sadly, the writers of CSI seem often to totally forget major personal developments, and characters often show little or no issues from what would have been major mental traumas in real life.

I still laugh about season 1 episode 1 and 1A... when Brass left to be a detective and Grissom was "put in charge of the lab", only to have the shows slowly but surely pull that away until he was "night shift supersivor" with a whole hierarchy of people above him.

That said, I think that the way that this sort of thing is often forgotten in CSI land leads me to think that some sort of "lucky stars" thing will occur and we will see Sara back around episode 6 or 7, perhaps, and with minimum true effects on Grissom and the rest of the lab.
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

I'd love to see Sara showing some PTSD, and have Warrick or Nick there to help her out, but in truth, once Sara and Grissom have their big storyline, I wouldn't mind the relationship being put in the background in favor of giving either of those two men something to do.

I'm glad that
Rumors abound that Nick is going to have a central focus this year, especially if Catherine is temporarily on swing shift and he becomes - by default - head of the lab for a couple of episodes.

But I think that both actors have been rather overlooked, and while I love GSR, and I do feel that they were really subtle with it last year, I also don't like this sense that it can only be one character at a time that gets developed. Catherine for six years, then a bit of Grissom and Sara and Greg in the last year.

While Season 1 was far from perfect writing-wise, I do think that it had a greater sense of each character getting small advancements, rather than one or two getting it all in one lump sum and then cast aside.
 
Re: GSR, Miniature Killer, Sara in Peril: Jumping the Shark

Raw_Alex said:
For the actors, it is a great time because personal developments of a character on this sort of show is sort of like self-gratification. Sadly, the writers of CSI seem often to totally forget major personal developments, and characters often show little or no issues from what would have been major mental traumas in real life.
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ITA. The Grissom/Sara scenes from last season played like cute little bonuses that were given to the actors as gifts, and that's the way they (the actors and producers) even seem to talk about them in interviews. It may even have been a demand from WP in return for signing on for an 8th season, in which case I say: "Go, GSR!", since I'd rather see him with anybody than not see him at all. But as many other people have stated, this subplot seemed to throw out all the interesting character work that Sara was given in previous seasons as far as learning where to look for validation.

I would love to see Sara deal with some nontrivial PTSD, sarahvma. I think the actress could do a good job with it. But probably they'll just have 10 seconds of her wincing as a red car drives by, similar to what they gave Nick after GD (the going down into the ground hesitation in that cult suicide episode).
 
sararvma: Without discussing your spoiler directly, I would have to say that there is plenty of potential here for Grissom to be moved to a less dangerous spot in the chain of command, potentially by putting someone between him and Sara if and when she comes back.

It plays well to my personal (and unsupported) theory that the Ecklie character will get the boot this year. He has never really been more than a cartoon cutout of "arrogant boss", mostly used to throw storyline bombs into the room and stand back.

My sense is that just as the GSR repurcussions are about to hit the fan, Ecklie either (a) gets moved further up the ladder to something better far away, or (b and more fun) He gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Ecklie exits stage right, and the powers that be move Grissom up to run the entire lab, leaving an obvious vacuum to be filled. Sara certainly wouldn't fill that vacuum, and would essentially remove her as a direct report, which might be enough to veer away from the proverbial shark tank.

I think season 8 will be a housecleaning of sorts. I think that some of the lab rats will continue to have stronger roles, and some temp or transitionary workers (such as in the first 4 or 5 episodes) will bring in the spice as the game of musical chairs starts in earnest.

Nobody like it, but with CSI being the number 1 CBS show for such a long time, they would be loath to have it die off if the principal actors decide to leave the show over time. I am seeing that new characters or strong development of secondary characters is going to be key for CSI to make it past season 10.

The big question will be if the season 7 cliff hanger resolution goes directly over the shark tank or manages to miss the ramp and sail by on one side or the other.

*edited title thread*
 
TallyHo said: Fair enough but then be specific and appropriate in your thread title e.g. "CSI Jumping the Shark?" , followed by sub-topics aka MK to use as illustration. Placing "GSR" as the first word in your title confused the issue, hence the request for the clarification on my part.

I would also check your attitude at the door because it is not warranted and won't be tolerated.

To All Other Folks:

Now that the intent of the thread has been clarified, Destiny and I suggest you post along these lines and keep in plain sight.

Thank you.
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As she stated above we wanted to clear this issue up so that we maybe able to locate when it is on topic and when it is straying from the reason it is here, as well as any confusion some folks might get from it. -- What we have gathered from the original posters claifications this is regarding the happenings of season 7 in regards to the following "MSK, GSR revelation to co-workers (its general impact in/on the lab in that respect), and Sara in being in danger at the end of the season, fineally did it jump the shark or not? And as far as we can tell not having anything to do with season eight (except in speculation/perception of it only) and where it picks up the cliffhanger.

Granted we did not put a "No spoiler" sign in the title, that is because we felt it was not warrented because the intent of the thread is clear in the first post and in the explaination give for clairification from the original poster.

Also I would like to add one last thing, our intentions is not to spoil discussions, or to disallow them, etc. More the opposite, alot of times people may not like the decisions we make, but in the end we are not here to spoil anyones fun. We are posters and we are moderators, we have fun and we have a job to do a balance we must maintain. If you have a problem with how we do this, then either contact us via PM to discuss it or it can be handled in the QSF (Questions, Suggestions, & Feedback) Forum.

After all this Tally & Myself believe it has been made clear and will now let you all get back to the topic at hand. Thank you.
 
Destiny, sorry, you didn't get it correct at all.

"What we have gathered from the original posters claifications this is regarding the happenings of season 7 in regards to the following "MSK, GSR revelation to co-workers (its general impact in/on the lab in that respect), and Sara in being in danger at the end of the season, fineally did it jump the shark or not?"

That isn't the point. Putting yet another CSI in danger may constitute a form of jumping the shark. But it isn't about looking back, it is about looking forward.

If Sara is found alive and returns to work (and even if she does not survive), the GSR situation is there, and in the real world such an office romance would be a real issue. Doubly so because these are people not only in government jobs, but in legal cases where their good judgment is a subject of discussion on every case. Could defense attorneys use clandestine relationship as a reason for an appeal? Was the evidence somehow bodged? Was the existance of a relationship mean that Sara was cut more slack, or even that a conspiracy between the two workers could be used to taint evidence?

It has huge implication that, in the real world, would not be tolerated.

So in the world of CSI, how will it play out? If it is ignored, or somehow brushed over like it is nothing important, does CSI at the point jump the shark to maintain a relationship that could not be tolerated in the real world? Would the writers and producers satisfy the shipper types (and potential Greys fans) by allowing a relationship to continue that just couldn't exist in the real world?

From what we can gather, except for maybe an appearance in episode 1, it appears that Sara may be absent, on leave, or other for at least a few episodes. Where does it lead?

So yeah, it has everything to do with season 8, and little to do with the past (except on how the past got us here...)
 
Alright gotcha. As to the past and future eps as I stated that about season 8 because you are basing this on opinion and speculation and not the spoilers of season 8. Which I just wanted to have made clear on that.

But I have to say that some of it ("MSK, GSR revelation to co-workers (its general impact in/on the lab in that respect), and Sara in being in danger at the end of the season") would also play into your theory in certain ways.

The MSK case is on going and something in which a CSI is put in jeoperdy, which caused a chain reaction with the revelation to the co workers about a relationship that a couple had an idea might be going on but didn't have proof of, which would then lead to how they approach the case from there on out, in such cases what would those in the real world do.

More then likely from the knowledge that I have regarding any type of law enforcement (ie through news and such) those who would be emotionally involved would be asked to step aside so as they do not taint the case albeit to make the pieces fit or unconcious acting, the problem with this vs the fictional world of CSI is that everyone is emotionally involved in one way or another. While at the sametime some might be more objective how it would play out in court come trial time could come into question.

This is where shows be it CSI or other show that try to keep it real while adding the "entertainment" value will always have a fluke here and there because there has to be a balance and if it slips then the problems that might seem microscopic have now become larger then it thought it would be.

All and all it comes down to the fact that while some CSI's in the real world don't do alot of what is done on the show and they are not necessairly put in the position of being put in danger. The factors of the show bringing in that entertainment value has caused it to split and in some respects in the real life part causes some problems in courts.

I am not for or against ships I am a fence sitter, so how the show handled it to me isn't necessairly a big thing, with the exception of its perception to those in this line of work or those who are taking an interest in it. Is it okay for a superior to get involved with their sub-bords? It causes problems I admit that, because as the past on the show has shown that certain relationships can be used against them in court. While I am not against it as long as it can be kept separate work is work, personal time their own be it on the show or real life, but if they interact then there is a problem that needs to be figured out.

I don't know for sure when a show tries to balances out entertainment value vs real life if the concepts in certain areas can even mesh.

Okay see this made sense to me in my head, but maybe not so much to others.
 
What real world are you speaking of in relation to parings.. marriage. etc. I know scads of couples that work in the same place and are together. One for instance here, where them manager, of the Casino, and his wife works in the gift shop, and at our local grocery store two couples both work here, and in our police dept, also two couples who are married and are just on different shifts, and so it goes, boss/subordinate, and in an office the manager of a telemarketing firm here, also at a local Denny's the manager and his wife both work there.. and etc.. his wife with him..it's everywhere, and seems to work, and that may be what will happen to Grissom and Sara.. work on different shifts! Oh, and I forgot one my doctor's wife works as a receptionist at the same medical center, he does!
 
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