Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Faylinn, Mar 17, 2008.

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  1. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    ^You're spot on with the scaffolding comment, Sammy. I think fourth season especially proved this. Lindsay completely faded into the background--until the drama with Danny started up again. Without him, she's really got nothing as a character, and doesn't register at all.
     
  2. baker_grad

    baker_grad Victim

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    I think you guys are over blowing the evidence out thing. The evidence was up in a lab that probably has cameras and is locked down. Even Reid had to be escorted up with security that time. Mac wasn't even going to say anything until Quinn tied it all into their past. I don't think that's because he was treating Lindsay different. I think its because it wasn't a big deal. As for Quinn's reaction? To be honest, a lot more of the issue with Lindsay had to do with Quinn trying to remind Mac of his past. And Mac's warning only came after Quinn reminded him of their relationship--so his concern was more about Lindsay dealing with her relationship (I know, you guys don't think she had a relationship--so her feelings), then the evidence itself.

    Quinn stepped out of professionalism several times during the episode.

    The only time the evidence really would have become an issue is if there was a documented breach in the lab, and it comes out that it happened during that time. There is protocol for a reason, but that's why there is protocol. It's not law as was the deal with Aiden.

    Comparing her actions to Aiden's is silly. If Aiden had planted the evidence, she wouldn't have just been fired, she would have gone to jail as it ties to the law and purgery. She intentionally took an unjustified, unethical step. Comparing her actions to Danny getting knocked off the promotion grid is even more silly. He killed someone.

    Lindsay made a mistake. Was she dumping it on Danny? Trying to get out of trouble? That wasn't the tone. It was more she understood that it could have been serious--if something had happened. She understood her actions.

    I like to think everyone in the show is a family and they treat each other as such. That's what makes it fun to watch. Different characters make it fun to watch. Should everyone be the same and hard and whatever? Lindsay's got a soft side, she plays that well. Some of us like that. I'm not saying you need to argue this point. I understand yours, and I didn't answer to argue that, just the evidence thing. In real life, it is more like I said above.

    I just wonder if you judge real people as much as you judge imaginary people.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2008
  3. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    How do we know Mac wouldn't have said anything if Quinn hadn't tied it into their past? Mac is as much of a stickler for protocol as anyone so he would have talked to Lindsay if anyone had brought the issue to his attention, IMO. Also, Quinn was there to observe the lab for reaccreditation. It just so happened that Lindsay's mistake was related to her being involved with a co-worker and Quinn used the past as an example of why Mac needed to be more concerned about members of his team becoming involved. Quinn would have reported Lindsay's error and the possible ramifications of the error and of an office romance regardless of her past with Mac because that was her job. If she didn't report the error to Mac then she would have been unprofessional. She actually cut both Mac and Lindsay some slack by not including it in her report.

    Lindsay's mistake didn't have any serious ramifications, but it could have. She could have comprimised the entire taxi cab killer case by leaving the evidence unattended. No she didn't do it intentionally and no she didn't kill anyone. I don't recall anyone saying she did either of those things. Danny didn't kill anyone either, though. It was proven that the fatal shot was not from his gun. The point is that she did make a critical error, though, and based on Mac's behavior with every other employee who made any type of infraction (or in Adam's case not even making a mistake), there should have been serious consequences for Lindsay. Also, Lindsay has a history of being unprofessional and not taking responsibility for her actions. Mac suddenly saying, "I'm more worried about you," was completely out of left field and OOC. Why does Lindsay get a brake when no one else does?

    Did she? Her first instinct was to dump it on Danny. She back tracked and ultimately did take responsibility, but that could have been because she knew Mac would call her on her bullshit instead of her really believing the possible ramifications of her actions.

    It's not that Lindsay should be the same as everyone else. She shouldn't. She's from Montana and has a completely different background than anyone else on the show. Some of us feel the rest of the characters do act like a family and Lindsay sticks out like the awkward, weird, black sheep who doesn't relate to anyone particularily well.

    Of course, because TV is just like real life. :rolleyes: [/sarcasm] In this case I actually think people are judging Mac just as much as Lindsay. Mac treated her differently than he has treated others on the team in similar situations and that just doesn't sit well with a lot of people.
     
  4. Kimmychu

    Kimmychu Coroner

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    Silly? Aiden had considered planting the evidence to save a rape victim who'd been attacked multiple times to the point of taking the evidence out of its bag, but in the end she didn't do it. What she already did was definitely unethical but to call it unjustified is another story. Aiden was very angry and frustrated that a rapist was getting away with harming a woman over and over, and believed, for a while, that there was no other way to save that woman from further hurt. Aiden didn't plant the evidence in the end but Mac fired her for it straight away anyway. Action and consequence.

    In Lindsay's case, Lindsay deliberately abandoned evidence all because she didn't want to be in the same room as Danny after a mereconversation about movies and yes, she did dump the responsibility on Danny. First chance she got, actually. The instant Mac brought up Quinn mentioning to him that she had abandoned her evidence, she immediately said that Danny would have cleaned up after her. That implies she knew her action to walk away wasn't professional or ethical but she decided to dump the responsibility on Danny anyway as if it was his job to clean up whatever mess she made. Now that's what I call unjustified. Also, Lindsay only backtracked and apologized after she saw Mac's expression and realized her excuse was exactly what it was: irresponsible bullcap. However, unlike Aiden's situation, the only consequence Lindsay got was a next-to-nothing slap on the wrist in the form of Mac telling Lindsay 'he's worried about her'. Are you kidding me? Mac would have railed on any other character. He's already done so for much less grievous actions.

    ... no, he didn't. He ended up in a shootout where it was dubious who had shot the bullet that killed the undercover cop. The team had to figure out if it was one of Danny's bullets that did or not. Danny became more and more upset as time passed wondering if he really did kill the cop even though he followed protocol. In the end, it was proven that the bullet came from another gun and the man was shot before the subway shootout even happened. Notable is that, unlike Lindsay who immediately dumped her responsibility onto Danny the moment she was called out, Danny never blamed anyone else for his actions in the subway, as frustrated and upset as he was.

    :lol: Oh yes, and everyone obviously look like models and there's no such thing as consequences and there's this Big Black Hole that devours anything too complicated to exist for continuity's sake. :rolleyes: Hey Louie, how's it hanging in the BBH?
     
  5. Shytownmofo

    Shytownmofo Lab Technician

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    Quinn may have stepped out of professionalism during the episode, but Lindsay had broken established lab protocol, when the lab was being evaluated. That's a huge no-no. By leaving the evidence out unattended, that could have theoretically broken the chain of custody and compromised the case against the cabbie killer.

    Straight Up, Mac should have come down hard on her, at the very least telling her that he expects that not to happen again, Ever. Probably more appropriately, he should have written her up, given her an official reprimand.

    I don't see anyone comparing Lindsay's actions to Aiden's. Apples to oranges. Aiden broke the seal on evidence, compromising it, meaning that if the case in question ever came to trial, the evidence would be useless. She got fired, and deservedly so.

    Danny did NOT kill anyone. The undercover officer was shot before he entered the subway station. What got him knocked off the promotion grid is the fact that he deliberately defied Mac by speaking to IA when ordered not to do so. By doing that, he invalidated the investigation into the undercover officer's death.

    Funny the difference in perceptions. It sounded to me like Lindsay stormed out on Danny like a ten year old. Then, when Mac called her on it, she said that she thought Danny would take care of it. Not that she asked Danny to take care of it, but that she assumed he would. She didn't admit wrong until she realized that Mac would call her on it. To me, she was trying to get out of trouble and dump it onto Danny.

    I guarantee that anyone else in the lab would have been straight up fired or given a viscious reaming. Look at what happened to Hawkes when he didn't reveal that he knew Jenny Anders, the vic on the Blue Train, what happened to Adam when he gave Gerrard info before Mac, Mac's conflict with Flack over the Dean Truby incident, everything Danny's done. Mac doesn't bend the rules or make compromises. Period.

    The fact that nothing of the sort happend makes it so out of character, and quite frankly baffling.

    If that's the way Lindsay treats her family, I'd hate to see the way she treats her enemies. To me, that whole thing just reeked of spite and wanting to shove her mess in Danny's lap.

    I don't see Lindsay as having any redeeming value. Danny's been used as a prop for her since at least the beginning of season 3, longer to some people, and it's getting old. She either needs to be able to stand on her own or be gotten rid of/reduced. She has no range, she doesn't make you feel her emotions or anything. Every other character on the show, when they're going through something, you are aware of it and feel it.

    Flack with the whole Truby business (Poor man looked like he was about to cry) How horrible he must have felt to learn that one of his men was dirty, and the dire consequences that either giving up his memo book or having Mac subpoena it would have.

    Hawkes returning to the hospital he worked at and the subsequent conflict with his former supervisor/mentor. To return to the place where you finally said no more after watching two of your patients die and not being able to do a damn thing, plus getting a load of grief from your former mentor.

    Mac with the 333 stalker, Reed and even the Dean Truby Business. To be stalked and not know what the heck is going on or why. To have the only link to your dead wife in mortal jeopardy. To know that you're going to have to hurt a trusted colleague and confidant in order to do the right thing.

    Stella's agony in RND and All Access. To be held hostage by a psycho ex in your own home. To suddenly realize that your next door neighbor is not what they appear to be, and that if you'd been aware sooner, you'd have possibly been able to do something about it.

    Danny's countless storylines and sticky situations, most notably the Ruben Sandoval arc. A child in your care gets murdered....ouch. enough to mess you up for life.

    Aiden and her frustration about not being able to catch DJ Pratt. The frustration, especially when it was your friend he attacked.

    All these people have made me feel their pain, know their motivation. Lindsay....No. When she was crying in the morgue in Silent Night, her face was so blank, it was almost like....okay, what am I cooking for dinner tonight. There was nothing to suggest she'd actually lived a trauma like that.

    I actually liked her at the beginning. She was somewhat funny, someone for Danny to hang with, maybe flirt with a bit, nothing more. When they started introducing more heavy storylines for and around her, like her reaction to Stella's situation in All Access, she started to sour for me.

    Now, she's just cumbersome. The whole Danny/Lindsay romance thing has run it's course. It failed, so let's just 86 it. Even Better, why not 86 her. She can be killed in the line of duty, Danny can have his breakdown and check into an assylum. Then, we get rid of her and find out how Danny ended up the way he did. Problem solved.

    BTW, Sorry for the Novel, this has been building for some time.
     
  6. weeza82

    weeza82 Victim

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    I usually lurk here, nodding vigorously in agreement at your posts but always to shy to put finger to keyboard, as there is nothing I can add to your eloquent, well-presented, though-out posts. But today, I am feeling brave.....

     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2008
  7. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    Glad you decided to speak up! :D It's always great to have a fresh perspective in here.

    Yeah, the "Silent Night" crying scene was beyond bad--it was embarrassing. No professional actress should offer that up as a credible performance because it just wasn't.

    Yeah, Vanessa and Anna are worlds apart when it comes to acting skills. Vanessa is still missed, and I think the show would be much better had she not left.

    Still, I think that Lindsay has just been a failure as a character almost from the start (she did have moments of promise in season two), and that's a combo of acting and writing. I think a better actress could have overcome weaknesses in the writing, and I also think that a better actress could have done a lot with the dark secret storyline, which really was a decent storyline, or could have been, had Anna handled it better.
     
  8. Poppet

    Poppet Police Officer

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    The quote thread has just reminded me of another sackable offensive commited by Lindsay that went completely unnoticed - when she shoved the bottle of hydrogen sulfide under Macs nose. Shoving any chemical in someones face is a disciplinary offense but hydrogn sulfide is very toxic and shouldn't be opened outside a fumehood nevermind in someones office and then shoved under their nose, yet Mac didn't say a word to her.
     
  9. jolein

    jolein Pathologist

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    What makes me wonder is,if the writers and producers don`t see all of the things people here(and on other boards )notice.

    Sure they probally can`t fire her or anything but I can`t imagine that maybe a writer must feel that it`s tough to write for Anna because of her limited acting skills.
     
  10. Shytownmofo

    Shytownmofo Lab Technician

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    They did okay in Season 2. Besides, if they're talented enough, they can work around anyone's limitations.

    Yeah, Anna has limits as an actress, but still, the writers should know that, and know what her strengths are and be able to write to them.

    She's been on the show for three seasons, and it seems they still haven't done that. You think they'd have given her a niche by now. Being a prop for Danny is not a niche, BTW.

    I vassilate back and forth between thinking they should salvage the character by bringing her back to season 2 status, where she was light and funny and had some good moments with Danny and did some fun things with the evidence; and just saying "Ditch the Bitch."

    Obviously, she's here to stay, so they should just tone her character down. The emo stuff needs to stop. I don't know what the writers were thinking when they went and did that. She wasn't like that in "Stealing Home" when the mermaid girl was from Montana, (IIRC, It's been awhile since I watched Season 2), so I don't understand why she all of a sudden became bad, unconvincing Emo-girl.
     
  11. Kimmychu

    Kimmychu Coroner

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    ... what?! Hydrogen sulfide?! :eek: She did something like that to Mac and Mac said nothing?! Wow, Lindsay, you're even more evil than I thought. You tried to incapacitate your own boss right there in his own lab! Looks like your plan to assassinate Mac and take over didn't work though. *tsktsk*

    Heh ... heheheheh. Oh, I dunno, I'm thinking they do. :angel:

    Yeah, the biggest problem with working with an actor/actress with limited skills is that, no matter how good a story you write is, if the actor/actress is incapable of conveying what you wrote, it might as well be crap. This is especially if a lot of emotion is required. Just the least bit of inconsistency in displaying emotion, and you already change the entire context of a dialogue or scene. It's happened many times already on the show when it comes to Lindsay. Why else are people debating over what the damn hell she's trying to emote? :lol:

    Is it possible that her strengths are so few that even the smallest, simplest storyline is a risk for her to act out? :lol:

    I am always reminded of that horrendous, "I rock!" scene whenever somebody brings up her limitations as an actress. That wasn't even a story plot. Wasn't even a full scene. It was just a few seconds of the beginning of a scene, and even that bombed like the A-bomb on Nagasaki. Any writer will have a difficult time writing anything for an actress who can't even make the words, "I rock!" believable.

    If Lindsay has to stick around, I would prefer the season two her before TPTB dragged in the emo drama and DL, like you said. However, even the light flirting between Danny and Lindsay won't make sense now, in light of what's happened in season four. That would be like retconning seasons three and four and have them act as if none of those two seasons ever happened. We'll be seeing major wank happen if that turns out to be the case. :lol:

    Now that you've mentioned it, I don't know what the heck it was that triggered Emo-Montana either. If the multiple homicides of those young students didn't do it, or seeing that mermaid girl didn't do it, it totally doesn't make sense why she'd snap out of the blue.

    Heh, the whole PTSD storyline was terribly executed. If all it took was a dead body to trigger her sudden emo-ness, there was no way she'd even make it to becoming a professional CSI, much less one who's solved brutal murders and seen gory murder scenes and didn't feel a thing.
     
  12. miss_blue

    miss_blue Lab Technician

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    :rolleyes: It was the unshared love that pushed the on button for the emo state. I wish someone can find the off button (and while at it, maybe a catapult button).

    What it was the most annoying thing that happened with Lindsay so far, it was the evidence slip out from Personal Foul. Mac, the so fair and by the book, Mac didn't even give her the impression that she did something wrong. If someone else was in that position, I truly pity the poor fellow.
     
  13. jolein

    jolein Pathologist

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    I completly agree and while they might know she has her limit,I can`t imagine that they are happy with it.
     
  14. Shytownmofo

    Shytownmofo Lab Technician

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  15. Kimmychu

    Kimmychu Coroner

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    :guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw:

    You know what this means, right?

    If Danny and Lindsay ever choose to play the Drama Llama game again, we're gonna see Lindsay going into emo-PTSD mode every single time. Ya know, since it's their 'unshared love' that messes her up. :guffaw: Talk about dysfunctional and doomed!

    Me, I'm gonna say it has something to do with Zuiker, if his prepubescent babbling about Lindsay and D/L is anything to go by. :guffaw: Embarrassing, man. 'Perfect heart' that turned out to be total BS, anyone?

    There's a big chance that's what TPTB intends to do with her character in season five. Hill Harper's most recent interview kinda gave ominous vibes about that, even though he's assured it won't be his character that gets saddled with Lindsay. :lol: Unfortunately, even he doesn't know whether what he's said is confirmed or not, so who knows?

    Yep. She's pretty much like a pot full of random ingredients. Each on their own, they're useful, but now they're mashed up in a way that's useless and need to be thrown out.
     
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