Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

If by "AMAZING" and "stronger" you mean emotionally manipulative and pathologically selfish I agree completely.

I really don't understand how treating Danny badly for not going to her for comfort (remember, she doesn't know about Rikki) is so wonderful. If Danny had gone to Lindsay in S3 and said that he was in love with Lindsay but had to "let that go" because she wouldn't share her trauma with him and use him for comfort and then when she called him to apologize chastised her for her bad behavior while letting her know how hard she was to love people would have wanted Danny to be publicly flogged. People would have been appalled by how he disregarded Lindsay's emotional vulnerability and actually used it against her. And Lindsay's grief was 10 years old. Danny's been grieving for about two months. It really makes no sense to me.

I'm not saying anyone's opinion is invalid. I like to think that even if I don't agree with someone I can still see where they're coming from. I've really tried to wrap my head around the empathy and support for Lindsay, but taking into consideration her behavior and Danny's empathy and support for her in S3 I just don't get it.

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

I wonder what you mean that Lindsay is pathologically selfish and manipulative. Those are very strong words to describe her. Third season is a difficult season to base one's opinion of the character due to Anna Belknap's pregnancy. It really stunted the development of her character and also rushed the relationship of Danny and Lindsay in my mind.

It doesn't matter how long one has been grieving, it still hurts no matter what the situation was. I also don't see how she is treating him badly, Danny seems to be doing just fine these last couple of episodes. If Danny wants to be with Lindsay now it is his turn to work things out. Also, both Lindsay and Danny had handled their grief in a very poor manner. I don't think Lindsay is using her love for him to make him feel guilty. She felt that it was time to let him know how she felt due to him pushing her away. Danny needed to realize he was hurting more than just himself but his friends (and I am including Flack et. all) as well. His actions with Rikki is an example of that. He is hurting her and taking advantage of a woman and their connection is not a mature one at all in my opinion.

I am not saying Lindsay is handling this brilliantly but that is what makes me like her even more, her imperfections and flaws make it more intriguing. But saying she is pathologically selfish and manipulative? No, not at all. She is not a criminal and isn't taking advantage of other people's weakness.

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

And he said twice in this episode that he wanted to talk with her and she refused so how can he "work things out?"

It seems to me that Perfect Anomaly has a point, (and since I am paraphrasing, I hope I have the gist of what she said correctly), Lindsay clearly was pushing Danny away when she had "things" to deal with. Despite the fact that she was pushing him away he, like a good friend, was there for her. He never said to her that he was through being interested in her and he needed to stop being friends. Now, supposedly, they are in a relationship and have been for almost a year and he is hurting and as a result he is pushing her away. However, despite this deepened relationship, instead of really giving him time and space and offering to be there for him, she walks away. And this despite the fact that she loves him. Sorry, if you love someone, I think you give them more a 6-8 weeks to deal with grief before you have had enough and try to stop loving them. And again, we have to keep in mind that she doesn't know what happened with Ricki. She is just upset because he didn't turn to her. If she did know about Ricki and she and Danny were indeed in a relationship, then she would have every right to kick him to the curb or, as my grandmother used to say, give him the gate.

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

I don't think she is walking away, she is giving that time and space that he wants so badly. Now suddenly out of the blue he wants her??? He is sending a lot of mixed signals to Lindsay and she doesn't know how to respond that. Doesn't matter whether it's been 2 days or 2 months he is really messing with her head. She was just trying to do what was best for the both of them. I think that because she loves him she thinks she is doing the right thing.

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

But, a week or so ago didn't she flat out say that she had to figure out how to stop loving him? If that isn't a clear indication that she is walking away and not just giving him space, I don't know what is.

And I don't think he is deliberately messing with her head. He is really only focussed on himself and his grief and that is what happens sometimes when you are going through something traumatic. I still think she should have been more understanding but obviously there are many people who see it differently.

ETA:

I guess this is a point we are not going to agree on. I don't really think she ever considered what was best for him. I really think she was just thinking of how hurt she was without considering what he is going through.

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

They are strong words to describe her. I think that she has been shown to be manipulative and selfish throughout the three seasons she's been on the show, so that's why I use strong words.

Anna Belknap's pregnancy is not an excuse for poor character development. Period. Anna Belknap is not the first actress in Hollywood to get pregnant and keep working. Yes, they had to physically hide her pregnancy, but they did not have to change anything about the way the character or relationship developed just because AB got pregnant and Lindsay didn't. In the S3 DVD commentary of NWILL the comment is made that they knew about AB's pregnancy when they started filming S3. They had plenty of time to come up with better development for the character and still allow for AB's pregnancy. Also, I'm not just basing my opinion of the character on S3. I'm looking at S3 and comparing her and behavior to that of S4. S3 doesn't cease to exsist when analyzing a character just because it is now S4. If anything S4 should help put her character in a better perspective based on what has and hasn't changed from S3. S3 shouldn't be treated as an anomaly because the actress was pregnant.

I agree. It shouldn't matter. But to me it seems as though it matters to Lindsay. And Danny has his moments of seeming "fine" just like Lindsay had her moments of seeming "fine" in S3. It doesn't mean that he isn't still grieving or isn't emotionally screwed up.

When did Lindsay take a "turn to work things out?" She did nothing in way of support for Danny after Ruben died - I'm going by what was actually said/shown on screen - and then when he didn't voluntarily go to her she cornered him in their office and went off on him about her feelings and walked off. He tried twice to get her to talk with him and she refused. Getting pissed at someone and then refusing to talk things out isn't trying to resolve anything. It's just petty and childish.

Yeah, they did both handle it badly. But Danny gave Lindsay space and time to deal with her gief in her own way. The only reason he even got an explanation of what she was going through was because he took it upon himself to fly across the country to lend her emotional support. Lindsay throws a temper tantrum and basically tells him his way of handling grief is wrong. Lindsay may honestly think she loves Danny, but saying she needs to "learn to let that go" just because Danny is going through a rough patch is playing on his emotional weakness and feelings of guilt. So is telling him how hard he is to love. It's like she's making some big sacrifice even though he doesn't deserve it, and that is playing on his guilt as well. If anything, Lindsay should be more understanding about Danny's behavior because of her and his behavior in S3. Acting the way she does is showing that she hasn't grown as a character at all.

Also, Lindsay wasn't trying to make Danny see how he was hurting his friends, she was trying to make Danny see that he was wrong for not coming to her with his problem. Lindsay made no mention of anyone other than herself in her monologue.

As far as Rikki goes, Lindsay doesn't know about that so he can't be hurting her by sleeping with Rikki. Also, Danny and Rikki actually talked with each other about what they were doing and they both admitted they were using each other to ease the pain of losing Ruben. Danny wasn't some callous jerk looking to bang the hot, unsuspecting, grieving mother.

No, Danny isn't mature a lot of the time. But neither is Lindsay. If Danny had done all of the above to Lindsay in S3 people would be calling him selfish and manipulative. I don't get why the behavior is considered awesome and strong when it comes from Lindsay.

Last time I checked being selfish and manipulative wasn't illegal, so no she's not a criminal. But she is taking advantage of Danny's emotional state just as Danny would have been taking advantage of hers if he had treated her the same way in S3.

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

I think she is clearly confused, she probably hasn't been in love before and so therefore she is going through all the options of what to do. She obviously doesn't want to let him go and doesn't know how to handle it.

Why is it that you can excuse Danny's behavior after Ruben's death (is it because it is more recent?) Because they both went through traumtic events and both handled their grief rather poorly.

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

Yes, they both handled their grief poorly and Danny is still handling his grief as it is quite fresh. But the problem, as I see it, is not how they each handled their grief, but rather how they responded to each other's grief. Lindsay pushed Danny away and he kept trying to be there for her. After she stood him up he could have written her off, but instead he recognized that she was really going through something and flew to Montana to support her emotionally. She, on the other hand, has to fall out of love with him because he hasn't confided in her and has pushed her away and that is too painful for her.

Also, I am not sure that I can accept that we are supposed to think that a mid-30 something character has never been in love before.

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

Well, I think this is the wrong thread to talk about Danny's and Lindsay's lack of maturity and their "immature" relationship. In my mind, women and men handle their grief differently so you cannot possibly excuse Danny's behavior and yell at Lindsay for her actions.

I find it interesting that you think of Lindsay having a temper tantrum with her feelings. Since it is a crime drama, where else is she going to confess her feelings? If she does it anywhere else, everyone is going to bash her for taking away the crime element of the show. It seems to me in my mind, that forgetting one's birthday (in the case of these two) was just the final blowing point for her. Lindsay finally got fed up with him pushing her away and was telling Danny if you don't want to be with me, then fine. I am not going to fault her for being in pain about the whole situation.

Danny WAS being a callous jerk for banging the mother. The only difference was that Rikki was fine with it. She may not be aware of it now but in the long run she will realize that this was just an all around bad thing to do. I mean, really, would you want to sleep with the guy who was responsible for your son the day he died? It doesn't seem like that would take the pain away at all but just intensify it even more.

As for S3, I found Danny to be a caring guy and I didn't really like Lindsay's actions towards him, but that doesn't mean I am going to yell at either of them for being selfish or manipulative in their behaviors. They both just do not know how to be in a long term relationship.

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

Lindsay is in her late twenties/early thirties. I find it very hard to believe this is the first time she's ever thought she loved someone. That's another thing I don't get. Lindsay is a professional woman in the 21st century. Why does she have to be some naive, innocent who wouldn't have slept with Danny unless she's in love and who has never experienced the feeling until she got herself out of the "country" and met the slick, sexually promiscuous city boy? Just like I don't think Danny is a slut based on what we've seen from him on screen I wouldn't think Lindsay is a slut because she had a one night stand with the hot co-worker.

I don't think I have excused Danny's behavior. As a matter of fact I've openly admitted he's an emotionally screwed up, sometimes bratty f*ck-up. I understand where Danny is coming from based on who he has been portrayed to be in the last four seasons. And overall I think the good parts of the character outweigh the bad. That's not the same thing as always agreeing with his actions or thinking he can't do any wrong. And if during S3 Danny had treated Lindsay exactly the same way she's treated him I can almost guarantee I wouldn't like Danny as much as I do now.

Why is it that any trait/behavior that would be criticized coming from another character is seen as a strength and likable in Lindsay?

ETA: If the "Anna/Lindsay" thread isn't the place to be talking about Lindsay's character, then please tell me where I should go. Talking about any character is going to include discussion about other characters. It seems to be fine to discuss Danny and Lindsay's relationship in this thread when it's either all rainbows and puppies or if Danny is the one being criticized.

Also, I still don't think Danny was a callous jerk for sleeping with Rikki. He didn't think, "Hey, this hot chick just lost her son and is incredibly vulnerable so I should be able to score without her realizing what I'm really doing." Both of them were using each other. They were both emotionally devastated and they turned to each other for support and comfort. They were both up front and adult about what they were doing and why. It may not have been a good decision or particularly healthy on either of their parts, but it doesn't make Danny a callous jerk.

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

The depth of Lindsay's hurt at Danny's actions is confusing bearing in mind we have no idea whether or not she knows about Rikki. I get the impression Danny hasn't told her, largely because it seems as though they haven't really talked. But, I think her hurt runs pretty deep whichever of his actions have caused it.

I guess I could say they're both being selfish. But then again I can't bring myself to judge either of them because I don't know the full picture. I suspect if there is resolution to D/L by the end of the season that some will see Lindsay as being weak while others will see her as forgiving. At the moment some see her as selfish while others see her as strong.

 

Re: Anna/Lindsay thread #4 - "You've got friends, kiddo!"

i've been trying to figure that out myself. last night i wanted to give Lindsay a big hug for saying no to Danny for wanting to talk about whatever has been going on lately b/c they were in work. but then again i wanted to be like "what the f**k is your problem?" when Danny asked her to come over to his place so they can talk. i wanna say it's wrong the way Lindsay is treating Danny b/c when she was going through crap Danny was waiting and didn't say anything. but then again like Lindsay said last night she was trying to give Danny his space. i would be asking him where they were as far as a relationship goes as well if i were her.

i wanna feel bad for Lindsay b/c she really loved Danny and was ready for their relationship to move forward a bit and then he goes and acts the way he does. but on the other hand there's some there that i don't wanna feel bad for her. i don't see her problems and what she's doing as a strength. sometimes yeah i can see it but most of the time it is rather obsurbed.

i'll put this out there more for my own benefit: i'll always be a Lindsay fan. yes she may bother the hell outta me sometimes but there's something there i really like about the character. she just needs to move on from Danny for a while, be her own person for a while. Lindsay can't please everyone not even her biggest fans, it just shows that Anna is good at what she does and that Lindsay is a normal, flawed human being.