Why Lindsay REALLY Must Go (Pt. 2)

[chaostheory08]

The D/L thread are getting restive at the lack of "moments" so far this season. Despite having no sympathy whatsoever, I do see their point to some extent. The comments by AZ and Pam Veasey seemed to promise at least evidence of a relationship.

Maybe there were moments written and/or even filmed. But every single one of them are on the cutting room floor. Maybe it didn't work with the way things are going in the episodes that they deemed it a waste of airtime. :lol:

Those 'moments' are just not 'moment' enough. They want supply closet sex, weddings and babies. only then, will canon be CANON enough. I guess I'm just mean and their pain amuses me. 'Nuff said.

Actually, there are moments with a hint of lovey-dovey. Only... it's one-sided. Danny doesn't reciprocate.

Hasn't she only ever done that once, in her very first episode?

Yeah. And ever since then, she has stopped because they feed her different food in New York. :lol:

They actually bother to write in little tidbits of other characters' personal lives and childhoods during an episode (i.e. Flack talking about his mom's corn beef, Danny telling Hawkes about his mother's mozarella, Aiden telling Mac about growing up in Brooklyn, etc.), all the writers have given us about Lindsay is that she was the hopscotch champ as a kid?

Ei, don't forget that she's from... *drumrolls* MONTANA!!!! *throws confetti for drama* *eyerolls*

 

[Faylinn]

Let's make sure we don't sound like we're mocking anyone, guys.

And before anybody complains--no, we don't know what the writers are thinking or what their motivations are. This thread, like any other, is full of opinions. Opinions are not fact, and we know this. Etc, etc.

penguinpie said:
Not bitchy, but certainly a bit crabby. Chocolate, Fay?

Ooh, is it sexual chocolate? :devil: *waggles eyebrows at Sheldon*

I guess if Danny's hand can heal completely in, oh, two or three weeks, if the lab can be blown up and rebuilt in the same amount of time, then the whole D/L thing can suffer the same fate. Yet another loose thread, like Louie's fate

Exactly.

I can't remember her being aggressive or assertive in any other situation, except when she is in interrogation. And then she comes across as snippy and cross.

She's been 'aggressive', but it's usually toward the wrong person. Remember her "Don't leave town" line in "Super Men"? Yeah.

I don't know why, but being in this thread always manages to bring out my sarcastic side...

Lindsay has a tendency to make me sarcastic as well.

WhosLaughingNow said:

Ok, that's adorable. *snorgles it*

chaostheory08:
Ei, don't forget that she's from... *drumrolls* MONTANA!!!!

*smacks you*

 

[Top41]

Like Fay said, let's steer clear of commenting on other fans--in this case, those that like the D/L relationship. I've seen people in here get frustrated when others come in and say, "You haters think this!" or "Let's stick it to the haters!" or some variation of that, so let's not turn around and do the same. Thanks.

I do think it's interesting that the D/L relationship has seen no development this season. As others have mentioned, the writers found ways to work in moments between Mac and Peyton. I'm extremely grateful that we haven't been subjected to couply nonsense between Danny and Lindsay, but I gotta think that's at least somewhat purposeful, as is Lindsay being shoved in the background. She doesn't work as a character, the actress isn't good, so the best thing to do with her really is to minimize her screen time.

 

[penguinpie]

Like Fay said, let's steer clear of commenting on other fans--in this case, those that like the D/L relationship.

Understood, Ms Administrator. My bad.

It's hard to know if the sidelining of Lindsay and D/L this season is because the writers and producers don't have any good use for her character, other than to re-state the obvious, or whether AB requested a lighter load due to the new baby. The latter would be understandable.

Maybe 4.13 will shed some light, if the spoilers pan out. I'd be quite happy if they just let the whole thing drop and concentrated on trying to resurrect Lindsay's credibility as a character (though whether that is even possible at this late stage is debatable). Baby steps, writers, baby steps. No more Big, Dark Secrets or juvenile romances, just some solid, consistent characterization and she might - might - become almost bearable.

 

[Top41]

No worries.

I think there's more to it than just her requesting reduced screentime, if that did happen. After all, that doesn't prevent the writers from giving her clever lines or a decent subplot. Maybe they realized that good lines and dramatic storylines are wasted on her.

Either way, I'm glad Lindsay's angst and her relationship with Danny have both been shoved in the background. Both were extremely unappealing, and didn't do the character or actress any favors. If all she can handle is the light stuff, keeping her in the background is a smart move.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

Top41 said:
Like Fay said, let's steer clear of commenting on other fans--in this case, those that like the D/L relationship

Never again

Maybe they realized that good lines and dramatic storylines are wasted on her.

When you think about that if she can no longer pull off good lines or dramatic storylines, what really is there left for her to do? She's obsolete.

 

[Kimmychu]

WhosLaughingNow said:
When you think about that if she can no longer pull off good lines or dramatic storylines, what really is there left for her to do? She's obsolete.

That's just it, isn't it? The only route TPTB can go from there is to continue to keep her screen time minimum, keep her to just explaining things without the requirement of emotion and pretty much keep her in the background. That, and probably spread the propping up job to all the other main characters too to make it look like Danny's less of a prop this season.

D/L was about the only thing that kept her in the forefront, and that was because Danny had to carry all their scenes for the sake of getting people interested in her character. (Just take a look at the fandom in general. Who's the character who gets the most attention and the most rabid fangirls? You do the math.) That, and Anna Belknap simply can't act, and because of this, even if the writers gave her the most fantastic storylines in the entire universe ... she doesn't have the capability to carry them out on screen. They'll just end up wasted, like the whole mass murder of her friends and her going back to Montana to attend the court trial. All that scene ever did was show she really was not all that without Danny there to carry the scene. Again. If that's difficult to visualize, think of it this way: imagine that court scene without Danny ever going to Montana. Imagine Lindsay had to be in that scene alone, and she had to emote all on her own without Danny there at all. I think you see what I mean, yes?

Really, the D/L issue has already been dragged out for so long even TPTB seem to be considering an end to it, if the spoilers for the next couple of episodes come to pass. Hell, the entire of season four so far have already shown us signs here and there that TPTB have probably scrapped the idea of deepening D/L before the season even aired. And let's not forget Carmine's interview ... to say something like Danny realizing that Lindsay's not who he thought she was and him looking elsewhere is a major plot. I doubt he'd say them off the top of his head at random. Unless TPTB suddenly decide to veer on a different course (and as I said, this season has proven otherwise), that's most likely what TPTB already planned by the time Carmine was interviewed.

(To those who'd like to mention Zuiker's and Veasey's statements on D/L, hey, there are always numerous ideas being considered by TPTB. It's their right to change things, even after they've made official statements. It's the TV industry after all. They change things according to what they believe is best for ratings and the network. Why else would the network execs bother giving the writers notes? Moreover, a good story is never set in stone from the beginning to the end. A good story always sets room for change and improvement.)

It is high time that Danny and Lindsay finally stand on their own as independant characters, in Danny's case, finally stand on his own again. There's only so long a character is used as a prop for another before it gets old, and in TV world, it gets old fast.

 

[penguinpie]

Kimmychu said:
That's just it, isn't it? The only route TPTB can go from there is to continue to keep her screen time minimum, keep her to just explaining things without the requirement of emotion and pretty much keep her in the background. That, and probably spread the propping up job to all the other main characters too to make it look like Danny's less of a prop this season.

If it's true that she's being deliberately pushed into the background, and the evidence thus far seems supportive, then that is a terrible waste of a regular character slot. Hopefully, they will complete the transition and move her out altogether.

The writing really does seem to be on the wall for D/L. If the TPTB were intending to make something of it, there would have been some small, but explicit (not that kind of explicit) scenes to indicate that there was an ongoing relationship. But aside from the rather scary spray-on condom scene, there hasn't been anything. With Mac and Peyton, there were lots of little moments; nothing to detract from the story, but meaningful. For D/L, nothin'. The "bump in the road" is looking increasing like the edge of a cliff. :devil:

 

[Faylinn]

penguinpie said:
The writing really does seem to be on the wall for D/L. If the TPTB were intending to make something of it, there would have been some small, but explicit (not that kind of explicit) scenes to indicate that there was an ongoing relationship.

It's obviously been sentenced to the same continuity purgatory as Louie--they only plan to bring it up when it's a 'big', relevant storyline. Otherwise, it may as well not exist.

Mind you, I'm not complaining.

I was going to suggest that maybe not putting much attention on D/L might have been at Anna's request, to flesh out her character more individually--but then I doubt she would have also asked to be relegated to the background and given the Captain Obvious lines, so I'm thinking that wasn't a very logical thought.

Kimmychu said:
To those who'd like to mention Zuiker's and Veasey's statements on D/L, hey, there are always numerous ideas being considered by TPTB. It's their right to change things, even after they've made official statements. It's the TV industry after all.

I'm always reminded of that comment that was made about the "mole" on Miami having to leave the show after their identity was revealed (during whichever season, I forget since I don't watch Miami as much)--not only did the mole not leave, but she's a main character now. (I may be mis-remembering, but I seem to recall that being said before.) Things change. Period. Does that mean it's the case now? No, not necessarily, but it's always possible.

That, and probably spread the propping up job to all the other main characters too to make it look like Danny's less of a prop this season.

Ouch. And yet, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

Kimmychu said:
That, and probably spread the propping up job to all the other main characters too to make it look like Danny's less of a prop this season.

I feel like so far this season in most scenes she's in she's either

a)Barley getting by, by being propped up by another character/talent leeching
or
b)Falling flat because the leeching wasn't working and now all the talented actors are just walking all over her performance.

Again. If that's difficult to visualize, think of it this way: imagine that court scene without Danny ever going to Montana. Imagine Lindsay had to be in that scene alone, and she had to emote all on her own without Danny there at all. I think you see what I mean, yes?

If you're still having difficulties visualizing :lol::lol::lol::

 

[Carrieattheprom]

Isn't this the episode that's airing this week? I think I'll skip it. I have no desire to watch Danny imagine an annoymous lab tech morph into Lindsay or watch Lindsay & Danny almost kiss and I especially don't want to see those scenes in slow motion. Jeez, even if I liked the Ship I wouldn't want to see it. How cheesy can you get? I'm so glad that nonsense is over!

 

[Lessien_Tinuviel]

I'm always reminded of that comment that was made about the "mole" on Miami having to leave the show after their identity was revealed (during whichever season, I forget since I don't watch Miami as much)--not only did the mole not leave, but she's a main character now. (I may be mis-remembering, but I seem to recall that being said before.)

Fay, I'm pretty sure that it was during Season 4. The "mole" turned out to be Natalia Boa Vista. I was really worried that the mole would turn out to be one of the regular characters, and I was so relieved that it was Natalia. I was like, "OMG YAY NATALIA IS LEAVING!", because like you said, they were commenting on the fact that the mole would be leaving the show. Then boom, Season 5 starts and Natalia is still around, and being bumped up to series regular status.

My interest in Miami kind of waned after Season 4. I didn't see much of Season 5, and I've only seen one episode of Season 6 so far.

Back to Lindsay.

With Mac and Peyton, there were lots of little moments; nothing to detract from the story, but meaningful. For D/L, nothin'. The "bump in the road" is looking increasing like the edge of a cliff.

I totally agree. To Gary Sinise and Claire Forlani's credit, they made a really convincing couple, and I loved watching scenes of Mac and Peyton's little moments. For D/L, we had lots of (unconvincing) build-up in Season 3, culminating in Snow Day. I've always found it weird that that the writers never bothered to inform us (so to speak) about the status of their relationship as of Season 4. It's almost as if they think that if they don't say anything about it, people will forget what happened with D/L in Season 3. :lol: Any sort of mention would be nice, really.

I too, hope that Ep 4.13 would shed some light on where exactly does their relationship stand right now. Let's just hope it wouldn't turn out to be a big angsty scene.

 

[Kimmychu]

Carrieattheprom said:
I have no desire to watch Danny imagine an annoymous lab tech morph into Lindsay or watch Lindsay & Danny almost kiss and I especially don't want to see those scenes in slow motion.

:lol: I completely forgot about that until you mentioned it. That smile of his in that scene cracked me up so bad. He looked like he was high on something and not the good stuff. :lol: The scene was nothing more than the writers' blatant excuse to send Danny to Montana later in the episode in case people complained about how terribly out-of-character it was for Danny to go to Montana just like that. Honestly? Even with that hallucinatory scene, it was still terribly out-of-character for him to go there, and remember, apart from that scene and that little bit where he's in apartment, everything else seemed set up for Lindsay to be there at the trial on her own.

She should have been. It would given her character a lot more dignity and respect if she had been shown to confront Katums and the trial independant of Danny. It's a shame the potential to make her a stronger character was wasted. Then again, I also believe the writers had to write Danny there because Anna Belknap just couldn't carry that court scene on her own without it bombing big time.

Good point on Mac/Peyton, guys. I found Peyton alright until that one line of hers in Snow Day that made me grimace. But still, Mac/Peyton was definitely convincing and much more real. Much like Danny/Lindsay, we found out about Mac/Peyton by seeing them together in an apartment in the morning after. The major difference like you guys have pointed out is that the writers gave us many moments outside and inside the labs that there was a definite romantic relationship between Mac and Peyton, while with Danny and Lindsay ... nada.

Lessien_Tinuviel said:
I've always found it weird that that the writers never bothered to inform us (so to speak) about the status of their relationship as of Season 4. It's almost as if they think that if they don't say anything about it, people will forget what happened with D/L in Season 3. :lol:

:lol: You know, you have an interesting point there. It's possible that might be the case. "Yeah, we'll just put it behind us, okay, okay? Listen! Nobody is to ever mention it again, and God help us, if you must, call it That-Scene-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named or a curse will befall us all!" *cue dramatic lightning and thunder*

I too, hope that Ep 4.13 would shed some light on where exactly does their relationship stand right now. Let's just hope it wouldn't turn out to be a big angsty scene.

Ah, do you know about the spoilers in detail?

 

[Faylinn]

Carrieattheprom said:
Isn't this the episode that's airing this week?

Yep, that's the one that's coming on tonight. I won't be watching it either. If I'm going to watch it, I'll take out my tape from last season so I can fast-forward through commercials and whatnot (gah, Fay needs to get the DVDs for Christmas :lol.

My problems with Lindsay's court scene, beyond the fact that Danny flying to Montana was straight out of fanfiction, was that it could have been a much bigger moment for her. Even if she didn't sell it, if they don't give it to her, she can't even try. A scene of her standing up and walking out of the courtroom, symbolically putting her past behind her and keeping her head up as she goes back to her life in New York (maybe even showing her arrive back in the city, and coming into the lab where everybody is working and they give her a smile/wave/etc to welcome her)--something like that I think I would have enjoyed. It's like with "Not What it Looks Like"--having Lindsay step up and put herself in danger to save the girl that was being held hostage should have been a big moment, but it ended up being overshadowed by the 'hug'. I would have liked to see her helping the hostage out of the room, and the whole team together--maybe Mac coming to the scene. As much as I hate the way they tried to have everybody be like YAY LINDSAY WE THINK UR AWESUM at some points, it a situation like that, some pride is called for (and can be expressed without cheesy dialogue).

Honestly, I know if I can come up with something better for a character that would take the same amount of time, the writers are more than capable. I just wish Lindsay had been the focus of Lindsay's character to begin with.

Ah well...

Lessien_Tinuviel said:
Fay, I'm pretty sure that it was during Season 4.

Ah, ok, thanks. I thought it went something like that. If people want to count what the PTB say as law, they should probably take a look at that for reference that things are 1.) not always what they seem, and 2.) not set in stone.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

Carrieattheprom said:
I have no desire to watch Danny imagine an annoymous lab tech morph into Lindsay or watch Lindsay & Danny almost kiss and I especially don't want to see those scenes in slow motion.

Well at least we know it was Lindsay initiated their interrupted almost kiss. Carmine did say in the Talk CSI interview that Danny was more or less saying "Look, I'm here for you, I came here because you're in trouble and I came here because I care, but not more than that."

I dunno why I find it weird that she would wanna kiss him then at that moment. I mean you've just been reliving all these horrific memories and the killer is right there. What's going through you're head? "Wow what an emotionally draining few weeks. Maybe now is the perfect time to begin luring Danny in to my love nest"