Why Lindsay REALLY Must Go (Pt. 2)

[chaostheory08]

there isn't much character analysis of Lindsay going on here aside from "OMG, she's so annoying and I hate her".

Change the words annoying and hate to adorable and cute and you have the thesis statement for the D/L fans. After all, skimming can only give you so much.

I haven't seen a convincing piece of writing that tells me anything except that there is great dislike for Lindsay, and most of this centers around Danny for some odd reason.

I can understand this. Since you (and anybody actually) who went into the threads with an idea of what it might contain. As for her centering around Danny.... well, isn't she? Is she even a character without Danny. Sure there are some scenes where she carries the frame and herself but once you place another person in the room -- may it be an extra just walking past or one of the cast to talk to her, she disappears.

1. Lindsay is hated because she replaced Aiden

Huh? There is not a single argument here saying that we do not like her because she's a mere replacement. We even talk about the possibility of them meeting if Aiden wasn't killed off.

2. Lindsay is hated because she was paired with Danny.

... and hindered Danny's development. He became a lapdog of the writers to prop up Lindsey. And after three seasons, still doesn't work.

My point: I don't think all the characters hate or are irritated by Lindsay nearly as much as people state they do. I even dare to suggest that people think this simply because they hate Lindsay.

Hate is such a strong word, ain't it? So if Mac, Stella, Flack and the others hate Lindsey, well they might be great actors too to hide it from her.

I think they are sometimes irritated and/or annoyed by her in certain occasions. Like when she decides to show-off. How many times did she show-off to Mac .... "That's THC", "Looks like your girlfriend might be on the clear", "It's DYNAMITE". But all the times, Mac seemed uninterested. Think of a less endearing Gil "get to the point" Grissom and Greg "the labtech" Sanders relationship.

Jon Togo does wonders on CSI: Miami with a character that often goes against the grain.

True. After some seasons, I get the vibe that he's still the new kid on the block from him. Even Boa Vista fits in better than he does.

The lack of crying on Lindsay's part when she's talking about her friends' murders is interesting, not bad acting. Someone I know happened to witness one of the most hideous car wrecks of all time (he still has nightmares seven years later) cried every time he talked about it, but eventually the tears have stopped. His voice trembles, he sounds teary, but he can't cry about it anymore.

Hey, my dad died four years ago and everyday for months I went into the ugly cry. Until now, I tear up at his memory. Lindsey not crying is not bad acting, I give you that, but Anna's delivery of that strong, determined, brave "little girl" didn't work.

As for her apologies in "Snow Day"... oh it's a tool by the writers. Imagine if it were Lindsey sent there to the warehouse, would the episode work? Nah.

 

[Surreal_44]

Before I respond to anything else, I'd like to see a well-reasoned character analysis of Lindsay and why her character is so horrible.

Since I am such an uber selective reader, I need to have one pointed out to me. ;-)

As for whether or not I like Lindsay...eh. If she died on the show I might be sad. I'd probably be sad even if Danny or Hawkes died.

What bothers me about this thread is that it's called "Why Lindsay Really Must Go", and I'm not seeing much beyond a great deal of fussing that she ruined Danny's character and that all the characters hate her. Oh and Anna is a bad actress.

Those aren't real reasons why Lindsay must go. I'd rather see the thread titled "I hate Lindsay and Here's Why", because the title of the thread makes it feel more like a FAQ than just opinions on why we dislike Lindsay. It feels a bit unfair.

And since people picked up on it; YES, I think that there is a double-standard for Carmine and Anna. Anna can't be a bad actress despite being pregnant and then being a new mother because that's no excuse. However, apparently Carmine can be lackluster and unenthusiastic in his acting because he's not enthusiastic about the relationship?

If Carmine's acting seems dull around Anna, then the fault is totally his, right? Because obviously there is NO EXCUSE for bad acting.

If the complaint that Danny has centered himself around Lindsay...is that Lindsay's fault? Or maybe it's Danny's and his desperate need for attention? Maybe it's because Lindsay makes him feel needed, so he goes after her. Maybe it's because he wants to start his own family...but it's not Lindsay's doing. It's Danny's. And the writers'.

So...where are the deep delving posts into Lindsay's character that I missed? I'd like to see them.

 

[Faylinn]

YES, I think that there is a double-standard for Carmine and Anna.

Oh, you mean where he does a consistently good job with a few misses that we're willing to overlook, whereas Anna does a consistently bad job that we aren't going to plug our ears and hum to ignore after more than two years on the show? Hmm.

You seem to be under the impression that the purpose of this thread is to tell other people what to think, or to express the opinion of the hive mind that we belong to--no, sorry, you missed the point by a mile.

However, apparently Carmine can be lackluster and unenthusiastic in his acting because he's not enthusiastic about the relationship?

I believe that was a casual suggestion to why Danny has been behaving the way he is this season--and it's been suggested by fewer people than the ones who believe it's the character, not the actor. Speculation about something in a few posts is not the same as the overwhelming attitude of every person taking part in a discussion.

If Carmine's acting seems dull around Anna, then the fault is totally his, right?

People have said it's unprofessional if that is, in fact, the case. People have also said they don't think that's likely. Different people have said all sorts of things during the course of a discussion where individuals give various opinions. A poster can suggest things that others agree with, things that others disagree with, things the poster herself (or himself) will disagree with later--this thread is full of OPINIONS. Opinions change and evolve.

What are you honestly expecting us to say when you come in here and post? 'Oh, you're so right, Surreal, I'm glad you brought us The Truth. Here, let me lick your shoes'? I'm afraid that's not likely to happen, so I hope you aren't disappointed.

Before I respond to anything else, I'd like to see a well-reasoned character analysis of Lindsay and why her character is so horrible.

Are we making requests now? While we're at it, why doesn't somebody ask for a detailed character analysis of Lindsay 'I'm the Awesome-Sauce Girl from Montana' Monroe, to tell us why her character is so great? No? Nobody wants to ask for one? Well, can't say I didn't suggest it.

1000+ posts about why we dislike her, what doesn't work, what we think falls flat, how she interferes negatively with the rest of the cast, how her characterization is spotty, how she reacts inconsistently, how she seems selfish and self-centered, how she sucks Danny's character dry being in the same room, blah blah blah, etc etc--we're not going to sit down and write an essay for Ms. Surreal so she can grade us and tell us if we get an A+. Sorry, but the thread doesn't work that way. If you claim to have read the thread and don't at least see where we're coming from--well, you're not likely to, and I'm not wasting my time spelling it out in big, bold, capital letters for you.

As for the title of the thread--the title I gave the Adam/AJ thread is 'Lab Geeks Can Be Hot', but the thread is certainly not all about the reasons why lab techs can, in fact, be attractive. A thread should be judged on its content, not its name, and at the very least, the title of this thread does nothing if not warn potential readers of the kind of sentiment they'll find inside.

If they can't wrap their head around it, I apologize, but that's just too frickin' bad.

So...where are the deep delving posts into Lindsay's character that I missed? I'd like to see them.

Read the thread again or keep your fingers to yourself because I'm not the only one who is tired of your smug happy faces and your apparent desire to be intentionally difficult. I'm not here to entertain you.

Now, can we please get back to a discussion about Lindsay's merits--or lack thereof--as a character, rather than having to debate the fact that we don't worship at the altar of TPTB?

 

[Top41]

Surreal_44 said:
Before I respond to anything else, I'd like to see a well-reasoned character analysis of Lindsay and why her character is so horrible.

Let me get this straight--before you read or respond to any of the well thought out responses to your post, you want a character analysis of Lindsay and why her character is so horrible?

I don't blame you for not wanting to go through two threads worth of material to cobble a comprehensive argument together yourself, but the fact that you aren't going to acknowledge the points made in response to what you did bring up suggests to me that you don't really have any interest in discussion here. You seem to be metaphorically holding your fingers in your ears and going, "I've decided you all are just picking on poor Lindsay, and I'm not going to listen to a word you say, but I've come in here to dismiss your arguments and not listen!!!!"

Not the most mature or effective debating technique.

What bothers me about this thread is that it's called "Why Lindsay Really Must Go", and I'm not seeing much beyond a great deal of fussing that she ruined Danny's character and that all the characters hate her. Oh and Anna is a bad actress.

Those aren't real reasons why Lindsay must go. I'd rather see the thread titled "I hate Lindsay and Here's Why", because the title of the thread makes it feel more like a FAQ than just opinions on why we dislike Lindsay. It feels a bit unfair.

It's a thread title. It's powerfully worded because it's more interesting that way, and indicative of how many people who post in here feel. Don't let it keep you up at night; as others have said, no one expects TPTB to drop kick the character to the curb over it.

And since people picked up on it; YES, I think that there is a double-standard for Carmine and Anna. Anna can't be a bad actress despite being pregnant and then being a new mother because that's no excuse. However, apparently Carmine can be lackluster and unenthusiastic in his acting because he's not enthusiastic about the relationship?

Oh, the old pregnancy excuse--it might work if she hadn't sucked before and after her pregnancy. It's not just the pregnancy excuse--it's a laundry list of excuses, from "she's new" to "she's getting a handle on being a new mother" to everything in between. When will the well of excuses for her poor performances run dry?

If Carmine's acting seems dull around Anna, then the fault is totally his, right? Because obviously there is NO EXCUSE for bad acting.

Sure it is, though we're talking about a few scenes here and not his entire performance, unlike with Anna. And if you'd read the thread carefully (oh, we keep coming back to this!), you'd see that there's plenty of speculation that it might have to do with Danny suffering PTSD from being taken hostage last season. That's what a good actor does--thinks about character continuity and emotional rammifications.

If the complaint that Danny has centered himself around Lindsay...is that Lindsay's fault? Or maybe it's Danny's and his desperate need for attention? Maybe it's because Lindsay makes him feel needed, so he goes after her. Maybe it's because he wants to start his own family...but it's not Lindsay's doing. It's Danny's. And the writers'.

Were I to employ your debate techniques, I might say that all I see here is, "Stop picking on Lindsay! It's not her fault, it's the writers!"

No one is blaming Anna or Lindsay for the storyline. It actually fits well with Danny's "wangsty" character--he seeks out people who mistreat him, so I wouldn't even call the romance out of character. It's just poorly developed and there's a lack of chemistry between the actors. It's a tool they used to prop up Lindsay because clearly, she needed propping up.

So...where are the deep delving posts into Lindsay's character that I missed? I'd like to see them.

And I'd like to see a genuine attempt at discussion from you.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I'd like to add to what Fay and Top said.

Surreal_44 said:
I'd like to see a well-reasoned character analysis of Lindsay and why her character is so horrible.

[/b]

It appears to me that you're confusing "well-reasoned character analysis" with "character analysis that matches my opinion." Just because you don't agree with some people's posts doesn't mean those posts are not "well-reasoned." I've seen posts that talk about Flack's obvious dislike of Lindsay, and I don't agree with them. I just think they haven't worked together as long as Flack has worked with the other team members, so they aren't as close. I don't see any animosity from Flack at all, yet I have seen many posts on the topic that are "well-reasoned." They won't change my opinion on the relationship, nor do I think they were intended to change my opinion, but the posters express their opinions very well.

I said this before but I'll say it again, going into a discussion that has had over 1,000 posts and boiling down the analyses to basic generalizations that fit with your preconceived notions is insulting and confrontational.

ETA: Bad acting, sucking the life out of another character and not sparking with the other characters/actors are very valid reasons for wanting the character/actress off the show. Your declaration that they're not is childish and arrogant. Posting reasons we think the character/actress should be booted doesn't mean that we think TPTB will do what we say or that everyone will agree, we just don't feel the need to pretend everything about the show is perfect and lovely when we don't think it is.

 

[Carmeena]

Carmine, a bad actor... ??? CARMINE???... *does not compute, does not compute!!!*

You hate Hawkes? Seriously?
You hate Adam? Seriously?

SERIOUSLY?!?!

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

Surreal_44 said:
Before I respond to anything else, I'd like to see a well-reasoned character analysis of Lindsay and why her character is so horrible.

Since I am such an uber selective reader, I need to have one pointed out to me. ;-)

That sounds like something one of my high school teachers would tell me to do...

*raises hand* I'm sorry Miss but you would you like that in essay form or would point form be better for your selective reading style?

And since people picked up on it; YES, I think that there is a double-standard for Carmine and Anna. Anna can't be a bad actress despite being pregnant and then being a new mother because that's no excuse. However, apparently Carmine can be lackluster and unenthusiastic in his acting because he's not enthusiastic about the relationship?

If Carmine's acting seems dull around Anna, then the fault is totally his, right? Because obviously there is NO EXCUSE for bad acting.

I'm going to say this as an actor. If you don't have chemistry with the people you work with, if you don't mesh well with them, if you're not pleased with what you're given no matter how hard you try it will always show even if you're a talented actor your acting will still be affected. For all we know that's the best Carmine can do with what he's been given (And IMO he does a good job at it too). You can't just force chemistry on actors.

It's like me putting you with the one person you despised most in the world and then getting you two to act like best friends. No matter how hard you tried I bet you still would never come off as best friends.

So...where are the deep delving posts into Lindsay's character that I missed? I'd like to see them.

Oh man, were they due today???

 

[Carmeena]

A.J. = BIG time audience favourite
Hill = receives truck loads of panties

A.J. + Hill = sucking

*recalculates using all 10 fingers & all 10 toes*
*ERROR ERROR ERROR ERROR ERROR ERROR ERROR ERROR*

 

[adorelo]

Okies, I'm back.

I confess, I've not read everything you guys have said because, well, you've written A LOT since I was last here :lol: Not complaining, it's great!

But when the big emotional pay off came at the trial, when Lindsay was to give evidence against the fiend who brutally slaughtered her friends, the emotion fell flat as a tack. She failed dismally to convey any true deep feeling, though she did try.

I both agree and disagree with this. The whole 'no emotion' thing, while unusual, is not abnormal. I am 18 years old, I have not cried since I was 9. I wont give you a psychology lesson because that will just bore most of you to death but she's repressed. Plain and simple, which explains the lack of emotion.

However, she is an actress so she should have been able to show this. Show that her character can't show emotion. I'm not sure if that made sense so I'll try to explain. In the most recent episodes of Miami, Stand Your Ground, Calleigh cried. Now this is a character who, up until this point had shown very little negative emotion (like Lindsay). BUT the difference is Emily shows the audience that she is hiding her emotions by allowing little flashes of pain to flit across her eyes every now and then. Lindsay does not.

If that didn't make sense, please ask me and I'll try to make it clearer.

I'm going to say this as an actor. If you don't have chemistry with the people you work with, if you don't mesh well with them, if you're not pleased with what you're given no matter how hard you try it will always show even if you're a talented actor your acting will still be affected.

Oh, most definitely!! But the casting people are supposed to work this out before hiring them. Figuring it out three years down the line is no good to anyone. A guy who I was working with got pulled out of his part because we had little chemistry, we just didn't get on. He was replaced with a great guy and the production got some great reviews. Chemistry is all important. Some actors can't have it with anyone.

The point of this discussion, is Lindsay a worthwhile cast member

That's not an exact quote. I'm just lazy :lol: .

I have been up and down with Lindsay’s character and I am currently down. She is not giving me anything that suggests she is human. At the moment, she is 'acting' like a machine who is programmed to give a response, but it's as though she is not sure how to give it. She's not quite grasped how to portray her actions in a meaningful way. They are just actions, with no empathy or compassion behind them and, unless they are trying to portray Lindsay as an affectionless psychopath, something needs to change.

I'm not sure if it's Anna or Lindsay who is making me feel this way. I hope it's Lindsay, Anna can perhaps recover.


Okay, I'm gonna stay caught up with you guys this time. :lol:

Until next time...

 

[Faylinn]

A.J. + Hill = sucking

*snickers like a 13 year old* Sorry, totally irrelevant and off-topic, but I couldn't help it.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

^^ Oh my

adorelo said:

But when the big emotional pay off came at the trial, when Lindsay was to give evidence against the fiend who brutally slaughtered her friends, the emotion fell flat as a tack. She failed dismally to convey any true deep feeling, though she did try.

However, she is an actress so she should have been able to show this. Show that her character can't show emotion.

THANK YOU! I want to hug you! :lol:

Oh, most definitely!! But the casting people are supposed to work this out before hiring them. Figuring it out three years down the line is no good to anyone. A guy who I was working with got pulled out of his part because we had little chemistry, we just didn't get on. He was replaced with a great guy and the production got some great reviews. Chemistry is all important. Some actors can't have it with anyone.

That's true. It's a shame though, especially after her being on for so long. And it's a little late now to just cut her out suddenly.

 

[Lampdor]

That's true. It's a shame though, especially after her being on for so long. And it's a little late now to just cut her out suddenly.

WHAT? No, no, no, it's NEVER too late for Lindsay to leave :lol: Sara Sidle left in season 8. When the writers return from their strike, maybe Lindsay will have some more issues she'll have to deal with back in Montanna and can't stay in NY. Hmmm wishful thinking.

Hi all, glad I'm not the only one to not like Lindsay and my reasons for not liking her everyone has pretty much said so no need to repeat. I have to admit ... those episodes when she took leave due to being pregnent was soooooooo good. I didn't miss her at all. Sometimes I watch it on mute when she's on and my mom thinks that the t.v broke

 

[chaostheory08]

Oh, a "very selective" reader, you say? Then you're not a good researcher at all , dearie. In order for a fair conclusion to be made, one must read all the material provided to her -- may it be helpful or irrelevant. It is up to the researcher to go through ALL of them, process, and evaluate to get to that conclusion.

And such results should be ACCEPTED may it be favorable to the researcher or not.

So for you starting off your post with "I need to have one pointed out to me" tells me that you just don't want to read posts that might (or not necessarily) provide a very good argument. I say, take your pick!

Before I respond to anything else, I'd like to see a well-reasoned character analysis of Lindsay and why her character is so horrible.

You come in here with a pre-disposed notion that (1)Lindsey's not horrible; (2)we hate her coz she's with Danny. And then you want us to prove you wrong? Come on, anything we say will bounce off you. Just the same that what you say will bounce off us.

It appears to me that you're confusing "well-reasoned character analysis" with "character analysis that matches my opinion."

AMEN!

*snickers like a 13 year old* Sorry, totally irrelevant and off-topic, but I couldn't help it.

LMAO! I knew it :lol:

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

Lampdor said:

That's true. It's a shame though, especially after her being on for so long. And it's a little late now to just cut her out suddenly.

WHAT? No, no, no, it's NEVER too late for Lindsay to leave :lol: Sara Sidle left in season 8. When the writers return from their strike, maybe Lindsay will have some more issues she'll have to deal with back in Montanna and can't stay in NY. Hmmm wishful thinking.

Well I never said we couldn't ease her out :lol:. What I meant though was it would be horrible if they did a scene like this:

Mac: Where's Lindsay?
Danny: She's over there crossing the street.
[car hits Lindsay as she crosses the street]
Danny: Damn.

You know just randomly cutting her out, out of no where. She's been there too long for them to just randomly get rid of her for no apparent reason. Well at least I just don't see that working with her personally. But that's just me

 

[magicmunchies]

Mac: Where's Lindsay?
Danny: She's over there crossing the street.
[car hits Lindsay as she crosses the street]
Danny: Damn.

:devil: Wishful thinking, if that happened it would be like Christmas and birthday together!

I think they can get rid of her, Sara Sidle is one example also Radar O'Reilly from MASH! He was in MASH for 7-8 seasons. Lindsay is on her 3rd season. Leave Lindsay leave