Why Lindsay Must Stay!

[Faylinn]

Surreal_44 said:
I actually didn't really care much about Lindsay until I got to this forum

So you didn't really care about her one way or the other, but when you saw that some of the people here didn't think she was sunshine and sparkles, you took it upon yourself to become her staunch defender in the face of oppression, etc etc. You then re-watched the show having let our opinions guide how you formed your own opinions, and now you're going to give us an unbiased character analysis based on your opinions and who you think Lindsay is and so-on and so-forth--which is essentially just your opinion and therefore anything but unbiased.

So why do you feel the need to act like you're taking the high road when you're doing nothing we haven't done (aka: expressing your opinion)? Sorry, but I'd rather just say "This is my opinion" instead of doing 'research projects' to present to the rest of the class. It's all just opinions at the end of the day. A "true, strict analysis of canon" doesn't make it better or any more correct.

Besides, what are you trying to accomplish? Call me psychic, but I can tell you right now that no amount of strict canon analysis is going to change my mind. I'll form my own opinions, thanks, and I'm sure most of the others probably feel the same. You don't honestly think your little essay will invalidate what anybody else says, do you?

Also: How can there be a 'true canon' when it's all down to personal interpretation for us mere mortals?

Moving on to something relevant:

Dawni said:
I've kind of liked her since she started mainly because she is different and brings a whole different way of looking at things

That was surely what they were going for, but after being on the show for two years, they haven't done much of anything with that besides making her look like a bumpkin (Captain Obvious moments, anyone?) and pointing out that she's from Montana--there have been a slew of missed opportunities. They had a few relevant moments to show that she's 'different' (the taking-off-your-shoes thing in "City of the Dolls" which led her to find that doll eye in the rug, etc), but now you wouldn't know she had a different background if they didn't tell you she's from Montana every week.

Her long explanations can be annoying at times

What I don't get is how they can write Sid going off on a tangent and it comes of completely differently--Sid seems to feel that information is meant to be shared whether the time is appropriate or not (random knowledge about necrophilia, anyone?), but with Lindsay it seems like she wants to show off--there's being excited and then there's "lookit me, lookit me!"

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Faylinn said:

Her long explanations can be annoying at times

What I don't get is how they can write Sid going off on a tangent and it comes of completely differently--Sid seems to feel that information is meant to be shared whether the time is appropriate or not (random knowledge about necrophilia, anyone?), but with Lindsay it seems like she wants to show off--there's being excited and then there's "lookit me, lookit me!"

IMO, it comes down to acting ability. Or in AB's case, lack there of. All of the characters, save Flack, have to give long stories regarding evidence or NY history or the tests they're doing from time to time. They all also have to be Captain Obvious at times. It's just the nature of the show because a lot of things will go over the viewers' head if it's not explained.

Whenever Lindsy has to do this, she comes off as being arrogant and snotty. A lot of what she says comes off as arrogant and snotty and I think it mostly has to do with Anna Belknap. Either she is purposely making Lindsay appear that way, or that's the only thing she can pull off with her limited ability.

I don't think TPTB intended for Lindsay to be this way. They wouldn't have paired her with Danny or made Stella seem amused by her explanations and willing to be there for her as a friend if the intention was for viewers to dislike her. Again, I think AB just has no handle on the character whatsoever and that makes everything about Lindsay seem off.

 

[snowbird]

I liked Anna Belknap much more when she was on Medical Investigation. Maybe that's because it was her character's job to share all the information with the press. Here it just doesn't fit. It comes off as attention-seeking and "look-at-me". And it seems completely unappropriate in episodes, such as the Amityville horror one, where she was just yelling information at Danny, as if she were better than her "love".

 

[carolina]

I would like those who are fans of Lindsay to tell us why you like her without ever mentioning or make any reference to her being in a relationship with Danny.

I like her because she brought lightness in the show (S1 was too dark to my liking)
I like her because of her child-like enthusiasm about the scientific part of her work
I like her because she is funny
I like her because she takes no shit from no one

 

[kinkapoodles]

I like her because she brought lightness in the show (S1 was too dark to my liking)

How did she bring lightness to the show? What exactly was missing that made Lindsay fill the void? Season 1 was lightened up long before Lindsay appeared. The first few episodes were dark and dreary (I didn't like that) but after about five or so, the blue coloring was gone and it seemed fine to me.

I like her because of her child-like enthusiasm about the scientific part of her work

Again, any canon examples of this? The only thing child-like to me is her tantrums like in Oedipus Hex when Danny said she could talk to the mother and she whined about it. Manhattan Manhunt when Mac told her to go back to the lab and she whined. Silent Night when she fled the crime scene.

I like her because she is funny

Yes, she's funny as in odd. But as for a sense of humor, she falls flat.

I like her because she takes no shit from no one

Of course, not only does she do that with suspects, she also does that with her co-workers.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

Faylinn said:
What I don't get is how they can write Sid going off on a tangent and it comes of completely differently--Sid seems to
feel that information is meant to be shared whether the time is appropriate or not (random knowledge about necrophilia, anyone?), but with Lindsay it seems like she wants to show off--there's being excited and then there's "lookit me, lookit me!"

I think another reason it doesn't work for Lindsay is because when she does it always sounds like she just memorized it straight out of an encyclopedia and is just spewing it out word for word, which anyone can do. When Sid goes on it just seems like the words are naturally coming to him. He seems very nonchalant about it. He's more "This is just another thing I might know that you might find interesting" where as Lindsay is more like... exactly what Fay said.

carolina said:
I like her because she brought lightness in the show (S1 was too dark to my liking)

You could have put her in season one and she wouldn't have made it any less blue. Plus glass and yellow walls seem to make the whole show a whole lot lighter as opposed to the dungeon like abyss which they had before.

I like her because she is funny

Don't get me wrong she makes me laugh but I don't think for the same reasons as you.

I like her because she takes no shit from no one

Of course, not only does she do that with suspects, she also does that with her co-workers.

Well selective suspects. Sometimes it seems she doesn't even give a damn about some of them unless she's convinced they're guilty or they don't affect her personal life.

 

[penguinpie]

I swore I wasn't going to post in this thread, but I have to say "I bloody love your new icon, WhosLaughingNow!" :lol: :lol: :lol: 'Tis a thing of beauty.

 

[carolina]

what I dont understand is why it is OK to dislike Lindsay because of Danny and its weird to like her because of him. it seems a little unfair

it was actually the other way around for me. I only start to like Danny after she came on the show

as for my !she is funny" comment - do you even listen to her when she is on-screen? she may not be as good as Flack but no one dooes sarcastic as good as Flack. I mean, you just need to watch Daze of Wine and roaches

and I thought we are talking opinions, not facts here

 

[Seren_y_Gogledd]

I like the scene at the end of Stuck On You, where she'd figured out that Mac played in the Jazz club, and it helped her get one over on Danny. Also the crossbow scene in the same episode.

I can see why some people don't like her, but I don't agree - she's easily my favourite of the female characters. (Well, apart from Aiden, but no amount of retconning is going to bring her back)

 

[Elsie]

Surreal_44 said:
What's challenging is proving either viewpoint with true, strict analysis of canon, which I will attempt (I may fail, who knows) to provide.....I'm sure everyone is just overly-anxious to read my character analysis. I'm also looking at complaints of Lindsay's character, and offering up analysis on whether I agree the particular complaints are true canon or not, as well as adding in character comparisons.

If something is my viewpoint then how would you intend to 'prove' whether or not it is valid? The only fact would be that it is my opinion, regardless of whether or not your own opinion is the same. Part of the joy I get from being a part of this forum is the discussions and interpretations of the episodes and the characters that we have, I don't personally feel the need to 'challenge' my own opinions of a TV show character, because I think my opinions are perfectly well informed without it. I'm happy to be here simply to enjoy the discussions and thoughts of other fans of the same show and to be part of a fun and active online community. I very much doubt that anyone can really provide a 'true, strict analysis of canon' without bringing in their own personal opinions and interpretations. Of course by reading the information in this thread and the WLMG thread (if you have read it) you will already have an idea of what you want to find (and you have indicated this), so your analysis will already be subjective rather than the objective.

This is just a guess, but for every single one of your comments about Lindsay's character analysis being 'true' or 'false' someone here can come up with an alternate canon example showing the opposite. If you decide to post the 'thing' you have already written about Danny, Stella and Hawkes, I personally think you will find, that there are far fewer canon examples of any character complaints that you have with Danny, Stella and Hawkes than you will find for Lindsay. Simply, she is the weakest link, and for me that is the reason I think she should go.

I'm not really sure what your point is with your character analysis, if in fact there is one. But have fun anyway, I'm sure that rewatching every episode Lindsay has appeared in and noting down every single character nuance will be intriguing for you, and I hope that you will appreciate that your opinions are interpretive and subjective and therefore not universal, just as others here appreciate that our opinions are interpretive, subjective and not shared by all. To be honest I find it some what patronising that you must think that other fans of the show are unable to form their own opinions or that unless it is 'true canon' it is invalid.

Anyway, as this is the 'Why Lindsay Must Stay' thread I feel obliged to join in the general discussion.

Lindsay must stay until we all love her. Surely that's why they keep inflicting her on us every week? I guess that TPTB don't like to admit that they were wrong.

Lindsay must stay to keep up the female quotient on the show.

Hmm, that's all I've got I'm afraid.

Carolina, I don't agree that Lindsay brought light to the show. The light was already there by then. I don't personally agree that she is 'funny', she's definitely never made me laugh. I do however think that she can be sarcastic, but it doesn't quite work as humour for me.

I'm not sure that people do dislike Lindsay particularly because of Danny, mostly people are discussing the individual characters rather than their interaction as a couple. If the only things people can like or dislike about Lindsay are regarding Danny then that's OK, but what does that really say for her as a stand alone character who is integral to the team? Which is what every character should be able to do in my opinion. But yes, indeed it's all opinion and everyone is entitled to their opinion, just as everyone is entitled to challenge other opinions if they want to, such is the nature of a discussion board.

As Kimmy asked Lindsay fans to say what they like about her without mentioning D/L I'm going to oblige, despite having no interest in D/L and not being a Lindsay fan. There are two things that I like about her (seriously), her hair and her clothes. I know that's very subjective, and that I have no taste, but seriously I actually, genuinely do like her hair and her clothes. It's sad, even to me, that those are the only two positive things I can think of for her.

 

[Seren_y_Gogledd]

I miss the curly hair though

 

[kinkapoodles]

what I dont understand is why it is OK to dislike Lindsay because of Danny and its weird to like her because of him. it seems a little unfair

Nobody said that. It just seems that the majority of Lindsay fans only seem to like her because she's with Danny. I don't dislike Lindsay because she's with Danny. I dislike her for a lot of reasons that has nothing to do with Danny or anybody else and they've been stated in the Why Lindsay Must Go threads. How much credibility can you give a character if you only like her because she's banging the hot guy?

as for my !she is funny" comment - do you even listen to her when she is on-screen? she may not be as good as Flack but no one dooes sarcastic as good as Flack. I mean, you just need to watch Daze of Wine and roaches

Lindsay does not and will not ever compare to Flack when it comes to jokes and one-liners. Yes, unfortunately, I listen to her but most of her jokes do not come off as funny to me.

it was actually the other way around for me. I only start to like Danny after she came on the show

I like all the characters except Lindsay but I like them as individuals, not because of another character and pairing her with Danny didn't make me like her. She was tolerable in Zoo York (maybe because I liked Danny picking on the new girl) and Stuck on You but then she started to annoy me and I honestly never saw anything shippy between Danny and Lindsay until TPTB decided to force it down my throat. I was shocked when Hammerback told Lindsay that Danny had a crush on her because it never appeared that way to me.

I like the scene at the end of Stuck On You, where she'd figured out that Mac played in the Jazz club, and it helped her get one over on Danny. Also the crossbow scene in the same episode.

That scene made me want to strangle her. I'm guessing it was supposed to have made her look cute. Like 'the new girl tricks Danny' but to me, it came off as nothing more than Lindsay proving to Danny she knew Mac better than he did which we all know is a bunch of crap. To me, it didn't prove she knew Mac better than Danny. It only proved that she didn't know Mac better because Mac is a very private person and I doubt if he would have appreciated Lindsay snooping into his private life. Danny never would have stooped so low. It also seemed like a lame attempt to get Danny out on what would look like a date, too.

I can see why some people don't like her, but I don't agree - she's easily my favourite of the female characters. (Well, apart from Aiden, but no amount of retconning is going to bring her back)

retconning - ??
I didn't have a favorite female character. I liked both Stella and Aiden. Never say never when it comes to Aiden. TV shows bring people back from the dead all the time when it is convenient for them.

If the only things people can like or dislike about Lindsay are regarding Danny then that's OK, but what does that really say for her as a stand alone character who is integral to the team?

It says to me that she's not much of a stand alone character. Take the three episodes she missed last season, did anybody actually miss her? Except for knowing she wasn't going to be there and not having to see her onscreen for those episodes, I honestly didn't miss her at all. Those episodes were proof that Lindsay isn't needed on the show.

I miss the curly hair though

After seeing this crap that she calls hair now, I have to agree.

Elsie, love your post.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

As far as Lindsay being funny I actually think that Lindsay does have some potentially funny lines. But it's one thing for them to be funny on paper and another thing for her to be able to execute them properly and make them funny on screen without having them fall flat. One reason I think that almost everything funny that comes out of Flacks mouth is good is because the lines are funny and most importantly Eddie has perfect timing. I personally think when it comes to the funny lines Lindsay is usually slightly off, which makes all the difference between it working and falling flat.

And thank you penguinpie

 

[carolina]

I like all the characters except Lindsay but I like them as individuals,

I didnt say I liked danny because of Lindsay. but with her being there I started to notice things I liked about him that either werent there before or I simply dindt recognize before

as for her (not) being funny - its a matter of taste. I like her comments and for me it is one of the reasons I like her, which was the question here

I was shocked when Hammerback told Lindsay that Danny had a crush on her because it never appeared that way to me.

I think a lot of poeple saw it as classic case of "pulling pigtails" - very kindergarden and very Danny. chemistry is also a matter of taste to a point. what one sees as sizzling on-screen chemistry other may see as creepy or even hard to digest.

It also seemed like a lame attempt to get Danny out on what would look like a date, too.

but he invited her first (CoD anyone) and then again and again so it wasnt like she dragged him there kicking and screaming.

she tried to prove a point. you dont know Mac as well as you think. it showed she had observation skills - she is a CSI after all. it wasnt like she pulled a file and stalked Mac to find something on him

the point is, i like Lindsay and I think she is an asset to the show. it is true that the writters are struggling with writting her as consistent character, but if you forget the eps 3.4-14, she developed quite nicely

 

[Kimmychu]

Firstly, kudos to those who gave the challenge a shot. This is, after all, the Why Lindsay Must Stay thread so naturally, there should be posts stating reasons for Lindsay staying on the show. But secondly ... *sigh* I figured my earlier post asking for reasonings excluding Danny/Lindsay would be misread. As I have mentioned before, the purpose of me requesting it is that this is the Why Lindsay Must Stay thread.

Lindsay.

Not D/L.

(Although I'm not surprised if that's the original motive for this thread being opened, what with the upcoming episode in just over a week.)

Lindsay is a regular character on the main cast. Ideally by now (after over two years!), she should be a well-developed, independant character. Emphasis on independant, because a regular character who has been on the main cast for so long should not need another main character to prop her up at all. Therefore, Danny or Danny/Lindsay should not ever be required as reasons for Lindsay staying on the show.

Consider the following:

Would you still like Lindsay if the Danny/Lindsay relationship ends, and there's no plan of them ever reentering a relationship again?

Would you still like Lindsay if Danny is paired up with another woman on the show?

If your knee-jerk reaction upon reading those questions is no, then you might want to seriously ponder on whether it's Lindsay you really like, or whether she's merely a proxy for your liking of Danny.

By the way, I have yet to read anyone saying they want Lindsay off the show simply because she's with Danny. The D/L relationship is brought up in the Why Lindsay Must Go thread because it is tied to one of the major reasonings there: that Lindsay being paired with Danny has caused significant negative impact on Danny's character and marginalized him and compromised him to the point quite a number of viewers felt he had lost the spark so integral to his personality as Danny Messer.

Saying that Lindsay should leave the show just because she's banging Danny is as silly as saying that Lindsay should stay just because she's banging Danny, in my opinion.

And also, the opinions stating disagreements are just that, opinions. They aren't personal attacks, just opinions that differ from those supporting Lindsay staying on the show.

carolina said:
... but if you forget the eps 3.4-14, she developed quite nicely.

So in other words, in order for Lindsay to be considered a well-developed, viable character, ten whole episodes should be ignored? If that logic is valid, then in all fairness, those who don't like the character have the right to ignore whichever Lindsay-centric episodes they felt were detrimental to Danny's character or the show, right?