Why Lindsay Must Go

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Oh! and also, why I like her: She's quiet and thoughtful, not as forceful as some of the others - a nice balance. She has a nice repoirtee with Mac, like the mentor/mentee thing. She seems like a real person to me, someone you could meet in your town. I think she's a lot diff from Aiden, a good idea since that character was beloved by many. I guess I'm interested in watching her grow. OK. Done now.
 
Audrina, thanks for posting - we do actually like it when someone else comes in and gives us an alternative viewpoint.

But about why you like her - I don't think Lindsey is quiet and thoughtful - especially towards the end of the series. Her bullying of a suspect in Cool Hunter, or her screaming outbursts in later episodes doesn't say "quiet and thoughtful" to me. It says "inconsistant".
She does have a nice relationship with Mac though, I can't argue that one. It would be nice if she had actual relations with the rest of the team other than him & Danny.
 
audrina said:
Oh! and also, why I like her: She's quiet and thoughtful, not as forceful as some of the others - a nice balance. She has a nice repoirtee with Mac, like the mentor/mentee thing. She seems like a real person to me, someone you could meet in your town. I think she's a lot diff from Aiden, a good idea since that character was beloved by many. I guess I'm interested in watching her grow. OK. Done now.
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I don't think Lindsay has ever been thoughtful, she joined the team as a showoff, and she ended the season as a banshee. She has raced Danny in the lab, tried to one up him when it comes to Mac's after hours doing, she failed to show compassion to the father that murdered his daughters thoughtless and selfish killer, she snatched, and on I could go but why.

Lindsay is actually quite forceful and not in a positive I'm a strong woman way but in a I'm a three-year-old not getting enough attention way, like her infamous crime scene tantrum. She exerts herself on people be they co-workers or suspects in order to feel superior, in fact all my examples of how she is not thoughtful also fit nicely as examples of how she is annoyingly and pathetically forceful.

I wouldn't want to meet Lindsay and I can't imagine I'd remember her longer than it took me to walk in the other direction. I like people of substance and intelligence, from what I saw over the course of 22 episodes she absolutly lacks the former and mostly lacks the latter.

As far as the comparison between Carmine being uncomfortable in the unconvincing flirting scenes and Anna being unconvincing always because she is uncomfortable with the way her character is written, well it just doesn't warrant much merit, because again Carmine pulls everything else off beautifully, other than the solitary bow and arrow scene Anna hasn't pulled off much.

Frankly, the converse of what you say could be true as well, and more than likely probably is, perhaps it is not the writers that have thrown Anna off balance, but Anna who has thrown the writers off balance. Maybe they spent the season searching for what her limited range could convey and they just never found it beyond the bouncy bubbly child or the scenes with Sinese. It is all well and good to blame the writers up to a point, but Anna must own responsibility for her lackluster and failed performances, when it comes to a teleplay, the writers make the words it is Anna's job to give those words life.

The talent of the portrayer limits the character’s growth, so I think if we are waiting for Lindsay's, we will be disappointed repeatedly. The background is where she belongs, truthfully, she belongs on another show, but any decrease in screen time is better than no decrease at all.

Ali
 
JDonne said:I don't think Lindsay has ever been thoughtful, she joined the team as a showoff, and she ended the season as a banshee. She has raced Danny in the lab, tried to one up him when it comes to Mac's after hours doing, she failed to show compassion to the father that murdered his daughters thoughtless and selfish killer, she snatched, and on I could go but why.
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I agree. I watched that episode yesterday when she tried to one up Danny and that pissed me off. All because she thought Mac really didn't like the line he told Mac. I thought Mac's laugh was genuine and that he really was amused by it. Linday was probably just pissed because she didn't think of it first. She had to try to prove that she knew Mac better than Danny. Yeah right, Danny's worked with Mac a lot longer than she has. She spends too much time kissing Mac's ass. There could be some good in that...maybe it will keep her and her lame flirting attempts away from Danny.
 
JDonne said:
Frankly, the converse of what you say could be true as well, and more than likely probably is, perhaps it is not the writers that have thrown Anna off balance, but Anna who has thrown the writers off balance. Maybe they spent the season searching for what her limited range could convey and they just never found it beyond the bouncy bubbly child or the scenes with Sinese. It is all well and good to blame the writers up to a point, but Anna must own responsibility for her lackluster and failed performances, when it comes to a teleplay, the writers make the words it is Anna's job to give those words life.

The talent of the portrayer limits the character’s growth, so I think if we are waiting for Lindsay's, we will be disappointed repeatedly. The background is where she belongs, truthfully, she belongs on another show, but any decrease in screen time is better than no decrease at all.

Ali
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I agree with this statement a lot. I'm positive the writers waaaay back during the initial pilot had no idea of the popularity Danny Messer's character would have and would probably have taken bets that Mac Taylor would be the most loved character, but Carmine used his talents and skill to put life into Danny in a way that connected with the viewers and made it easy for the writers to use him in a myriad of ways and stories. The most popular eps this last season have been centric to his character's development...Trapped and RSRD. This is from someone who isn't a Danny fan, but I can see how different and diminished the show would be without him. Carmine's talent is without question when it comes to the character of Danny Messer.

Enter Anna Belknap's portrayal of Lindsay Monroe. Anna should have had within the filming of at least three episodes a rudimentary grasp of what Lindsay was like, how she thought and how she would behave. This should have underscored whatever plot or story involved her character for the rest of the season. Call it the foundation of the character, if you want, but how Anna sees Lindsay and her feel for the character should be showing in her portrayal of her...in EVERY episode. Instead we have a frenetic and at times chaotic, portrayal of Lindsay. This is because the way the various writers see Lindsay and the way Lindsay would behave, superimposes itself over Anna Belknap's performance. Anna's lack of belief in Lindsay is at the core of the problem, compounded by the writers scattered attempts to find a comfortable niche for both actress and character. I see nothing of Anna invested in her performance of Lindsay. I see an actress who either needs to get back to the roots of her craft and learn how to act, or who needs to find a character she identifies with more and can portray with far more conviction than she can Lindsay.
 
Well, I'll hide back in my "I like Lindsay" hole now. Anyway, thanks for responding to my comments.

*On a side note, JDonne, found your comparison to a "I'm a three-year-old not getting enough attention way" funny. I have a 3-year-old and I know exactly what you mean. Gave me a chuckle.

At least we agree that Carmine rocks. Have a good one.
 
It seems like for a lot of us, it basically comes back to Anna's performance. Hill by far has the most underwritten character on the show, and yet I love watching him everytime he makes an appearance. Flack isn't underdeveloped in the same way--those snarky lines of his are one of the most memorable things about the show--but even without them, Eddie always gets across who Flack is.

I don't think Lindsay is any more underdeveloped than any other character on a CSI show. In fact, with the exception of Danny (who is, as Jaer pointed out, front and center because of Carmine's excellent performance), she may have gotten the most development of any character on the show this season. I felt like the writers really tried to make the character work. They tried so hard that they pretty much kept tacking on different personalities to see which one fit. And none of them really did, because of Anna. The kiss ass and screamer personalities were unbearable, and she lacks the charm and warmth to be the lab sweetheart like Calleigh is on Miami. The writers tried, but Anna just isn't the right fit.
 
^I agree when it comes right down to it if you can't make at least one personality fit then it is not a writing issue it is a capability issue. What is Anna capable of convincingly portraying or is she capable of convincingly portraying any character that meshes with what NY could and should be. I think about how excellent the first season was and ask myself could Anna or the character of Lindsay have been an integral and effective member of the team or cast. I have to say no, I don't think she possess the grit or gravitas necessary to pull off a show about death and the basest actions of society. Was Lindsay introduction as some fans of hers have mentioned about showing a small town girl adjusting to life in the big city, I guess it could have been but that is a stretch considering we are never supposed to go home with the characters so how would we know how she is adjusting. So, I guess I'm not buying that one and again.

Perhaps the point is to show how someone from a small community fits and copes with the large scale murder, death, destruction, rape, etc that is present in a large city. I guess that could be it, but I would then say are any of those acts easier to handle because they happen in Bozeman, Montana. I don't think so, horror is horror and terrible things happen everyday everywhere and as a crime scene investigator you shouldn't come in with wide eyes over the death and violence in NY. NY doesn't own death and violence and it certainly didn't invent it, all the acts she witnesses are part of the human condition, us doing to one another the worst that we can do, so the whole welcome to big bad dangerous NY small town country girl you are in for a bloody ride just never worked for me.

Besides, they did it with Calleigh and they did it well, Lindsay doesn't even register when compared to such a well-formed and written character. Not to mention Anna just doesn't hold a candle to Emily's performance.

The writers did try and Anna just doesn't work, it is time to make some decisions the life and quality of NY depend upon them.

Ali
 
In regards to the character of Lindsay...Do you think someone else could have pulled her off? I think so. I agree that it all boils down to Anna. She may be an actor, but she's obviously not good enough to pull of playing Lindsay. Just how many more personalities are they gonna try. The entire cast (except Anna) has a grip on their character and plays them well.

I agree that if she were in the first season she still wouldn't have fit in. And Aiden would have probably popped her right back to Montana.

Hill Harper is a pleasure to watch as Hawkes and he was so underused. He has way more talent than Anna ever will.

I was reading one of the previous chats on here with Carmine that was back in July 2005 and he was asked: We have heard that a new regular will be joining the show next season -- a female criminalist called Summer Hamilton. Have you heard anything about this, have you met the actress already? And Carmine answered with News to me... I haven't sat down with the producers/writers since last season... so still in the dark about what to expect.

Wonder why they changed it from Summer Hamilton to Lindsay? Sounds like they had a different agenda and then changed their minds because Summer Hamilton doesn't sound too much like a girl from Montana. :lol:

Calleigh is the perfect sweet girl and she plays it well. hmmmm..maybe they can trade Lindsay to Miami for Calleigh. I bet she'd fit in perfect with the NY gang. Could you imagine her souther accent in NY??
 
I don't think anybody could have pulled her off. It doesn't only come back to the actor, the writing has been just about as horrendous as her performance. Do you think that we would agree with a Mac/Stella ship if it was so blatantly shoved down our throats? I'm a fan of Danny/Aiden, but if they had been given the lines that Danny and Lindsay got, that ship would be out the window.

I think what the writers are forgetting is that, first and foremost, this is a crime drama, not a romance. I understand hints et all, but this has gone too far. Yes, I figured out that there was 'something' going on by all the bland flirting, you didn't have to ruin one of Hammerback's few scenes by slipping it in there, too.

I don't think that Lindsay should be the only one going. I say replace the Writers for Season 3. They hold as much of the blame as Anna does. Lets not forget the All Access atrocity, or the lack of closure Heroes brought.
 
Just my opinion but I think another actress could have pulled Lindsay off. I have no idea who, but I think it could have been done. Maybe they should have went with their first choice Summer and cast someone else to play her.

Maybe it's her horrendous performance that has led to the bad writing. It's obvious they've tried just about everything to make her character click and so far, nothing's really worked.

Personally, I'm against any ships on any of the CSI shows. Leave that to the fanfiction. I also think Hammerback's line should have been left out. We didn't need to hear that. The Danny/Aiden and Mac/Stella (very subtle) flirting never seems forced and the actors seem comfortable with it. Danny and Lindsay seem forced/fake.

I think if Danny and Aiden had been given the same lines as Danny and Lindsay that they wouldn't have seemed forced and they would have went over well. Super Men is a good example. When Danny finds out Lindsay knows something about football and he tells her that's dangerous, he might ask her to marry him. It just didn't fit with them but I think it would have been funny with Aiden. Hell, I even think it would have been funny with Hawkes.


With the exception of Lindsay/Anna, I thought the writing was good for season 2. I only blame TPTB for keeping her this long causing us more suffering. Let's just hope that they get their act together and either find a personality for Lindsay or get rid of her.
 
While I agree with Showtime that the writing has been horrendous for most of the season, I also tentatively agree with 1CSIMfan that a different actress could have pulled Lindsay off with less offence than Anna. Because, while the writing has been terrible for most of the season the rest of the cast has managed to overcome the poor quality and deliver some outstanding performances, however not Anna, she has not delivered or connected and that is inexcusable. Anna is the sole cast member that has failed to overcome some writing issues. Anna is also the sole cast member that has failed to deliver in episodes that were well written, so for me it always comes back to Anna and Anna alone. That doesn't excuse the writing, but I'm not willing to offer Lindsay or Anna the simple out of the writing failing her because I believe Anna failed both the audience and the writers. The writers seemed more than willing to search and seek out a character that was accessible to Anna, a character that was within the scope of her talent and it just never happened. Anna never meshed with any incarnation of her character, and I know it's been said before, save that one moment with the bow and arrow.

Do the writers need to be taken to task, yes, but for what is within their control. They delivered some poor scripts, weak plots, flat humour; little new in the way of character development, bored us to tears for the most part, and at times insulted our intelligence. However, they are not responsible for 22 episodes worth of bad performances, nor are the directors, or the editors, the only people responsible for Anna's constant offence is Anna and the producers who kept her around.

I agree that the football scene between Danny and Aiden would have produced a different result for many reasons. Carmine and Vanessa sparked on screen and that was obvious to the audience, whether you are a shipper or of the belief that they were simply friends. Aiden would have absolutely had a ballsy comeback for Danny after he made the comment, something that would have made them both smile, something that would have allowed the audience to enjoy the banter and wit.

Having said that I could have done without Summer, Lindsay, or any other character addition once Aiden left the show, there was no need to add anyone to the show, the writers had more than enough material. It would have been nice to see Hawkes adjust as the new CSI on the block, an opportunity that is now forever lost. It would have been nice to see the team cope with the loss of one of their members for the entire season, rather than immediately plugging the hole with someone so inadequate.

Ali
 
I think another actress could have pulled off Lindsay's character better. Particularly when we've heard from Anna herself that her audition wasn't great and Hill put in a good word for her to get the job. I'm sure TPTB thought that since Hill is such an excellent actor for him to recommend Anna Belknap she must be good as well and that maybe a subpar audition was simply nerves. And we, the viewers, have been paying for this ever since.

Lindsay as a character has had as much or more development than most of the cast and an actress with any kind of good talent could have used this the way other cast members have to make the most of what they got from the writers. Anna Belknap has been unable to make the most of what she's got and the whine that all Lindsay needs is more development, more backstory, more time to adjust, more of a tragic and secret past, is just a cop out to disguise poor acting.

JDonne said:
Having said that I could have done without Summer, Lindsay, or any other character addition once Aiden left the show, there was no need to add anyone to the show, the writers had more than enough material. It would have been nice to see Hawkes adjust as the new CSI on the block, an opportunity that is now forever lost. It would have been nice to see the team cope with the loss of one of their members for the entire season, rather than immediately plugging the hole with someone so inadequate.

Ali
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I understand that the CSI franchise prides itself on being a procedural, but their habit of completely divorcing themselves from a character once it's gone or completely ignoring major events in character's lives is a disservice to the fans. If we want to hear simply a murder tale, we can watch the evening news. We return because the characters (with the glaring exception of Lindsay) are compelling and we want to know how they deal with death week after week and what science and smarts they use to beat the bad guy.

Hawkes is a perfect example of lost potential. So much could be done with his character and nothing has been. If anyone has the right to complain about lack of back story and character development, it's Hawkes/Hill Harper fans.
 
I agree that there was no need to replace Aiden with a new female character immediately, they should have stuck to filling the vacant CSI position with Hawkes and let him have the screen time. While I would like Lindsay to have a sharp exit early in the third season, I don't think its going to happen. I only hope I'm wrong.
 
Well, the good news is there's, apparantly, another female character being added in, so TPTB won't feel the need to push Lindsay so front and center in attempts at being politically correct. That way all genders get equal screen time.

And, if CSI Files is correct, she's working with Danny and Hawkes. Could this mean less DL 'romance' shoved down our throats?

Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but if they think they have to introduce a new female character everytime one leaves, maybe Lindsay will be out by the start of Season 4.
 
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