Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[Top41]

I agree, her not getting called on her bratty behavior definitely makes her far less likable and sympathetic, rather than more. I think if she'd really been chewed out for her behavior and had changed, she'd be more sympathetic.

 

[roximonoxide]

I think you're right, we've never seen her take the kind of heat that Danny does, or Stella, or Aiden, or Hawkes etc, there was the ONCE when Stella bit back a little, but even that seemed tame compared to what we know Stella is capable of. Do you think the writers are consciously doing it? I would think that with the number of people their writing goes through before coming to a finished product someone would see this pattern. It definitely gives me less sympathy for her knowing anyone else doing the same thing would have been torn a new one.

I would hope if anyone gets to really dress her down it'd be Mac. She seems to walk around with this notion that she can do no wrong by him. That she knows him through and through. Maybe if he snapped at her she'd wake up and realize she's not as amazing as she seems to think.

 

[Shytownmofo]

Yeah. I agree, completely.

I'd love it for Mac or Danny to be the one to really give her what for over something. It's way overdue.

I'd like it to be Mac because as Roximonoxide said, she has this attitude that she knows him so well, and that he'd never call her on her mess. It would be so nice to see that notion ripped to smithereens. I'd love to see her launch one of her little demonstrations, and Mac just tell her to spit it out already.

I'd like it to be Danny simply because he's borne the brunt of her abuse over the years. The whole Season 3 debacle, and then what happened in Season 4 after Ruben got shot. The dream scene would be as I desrcribed above when she finds out about Rikki.

 

[Kimmychu]

Shytownmofo said:
What gets me is that she does this stuff, but she never gets called out on it.

Yeah, it really diminishes the believability of the character, which is bad news for Lindsay who has next to zero believability in the first place even after the writers' attempts to give her some background and chain her to Danny and use him as her prop for years. And like Top41 said, because of her getting away with all kinds of crap, she's far less likable and sympathetic.

At this point, it'll just make me LOL to see her getting told off by someone instead of making me feel sorry for her. After the various times she's walked away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist for actions others would have been ripped apart for, yeah, her finally getting told off (the real deal, not the pitiful "I'm worried about you," gibberish) will certainly be much more like, "What goes around, comes around," than, "Aw, don'tcha feel sorry for her?"

roximonoxide said:
I would hope if anyone gets to really dress her down it'd be Mac. She seems to walk around with this notion that she can do no wrong by him. That she knows him through and through. Maybe if he snapped at her she'd wake up and realize she's not as amazing as she seems to think.

After Mac going totally OOC and letting Lindsay off with nothing more than, "I'm worried about you."? I dunno if the writers will ever use Mac to tell Lindsay off after that, but I hope they will. He's her boss, after all. It doesn't even make sense why he'd tiptoe around her while the others on the team get the Big Scolding (and sometimes, they didn't even deserve it!). What, does he know something about Lindsay, like she has a psychotic side that makes her wanna kill people around her if you don't please her or something?

Shytownmofo said:
I'd love to see her launch one of her little demonstrations, and Mac just tell her to spit it out already.

I'd like it to be Danny simply because he's borne the brunt of her abuse over the years. The whole Season 3 debacle, and then what happened in Season 4 after Ruben got shot. The dream scene would be as I desrcribed above when she finds out about Rikki.

This.

 

[lilou]

I'm not again Anna but I think Lindsay is really boring. For me Lindsay and Danny (together or not) are the most boring characters. (sorry for the fan). I'm do't why. She's just not have. Stella and Mac have always be my favorite caracter but I loved Aiden too. I love Angell too and Adam. They have many chemistry they are sparkling. Lindsay are just boring and heir relationship with danny are boring too.
I just don't like their scene.

 

[Kimmychu]

lilou said:
For me Lindsay and Danny (together or not) are the most boring characters. (sorry for the fan). I'm do't why.

It's okay, no need to apologize for that. There are people who dislike Danny and Lindsay, individually or together, just like there are people who like Danny and Lindsay. Hey, there was even an anti-Danny thread in the past. :lol: I must say it became inactive quick though and faded into oblivion.

Lindsay are just boring and heir relationship with danny are boring too.
I just don't like their scene.

Just curious here; if you've watched season one, what is your opinion of Danny in that season? Is it Lindsay who's caused you to see Danny as a boring character now? I'm interested to know because in season one, Lindsay hadn't existed, which means his character hadn't been reduced to a prop and shortchanged yet at the time.

 

[lilou]

Just curious here; if you've watched season one, what is your opinion of Danny in that season? Is it Lindsay who's caused you to see Danny as a boring character now? I'm interested to know because in season one, Lindsay hadn't existed, which means his character hadn't been reduced to a prop and shortchanged yet at the time.

I prefer Danny during the season one but at this time he was already the character that I loved least. I do not like every mime which makes the actor with the face. That irritates me. I don't like already how he reacts when somethink happen. When he have problem with police and do what he wants and no what Mac says him....But i loved his interract with Aiden en Flack (but I was not for a Danny/Aiden ship). For me he's someone who always says "it's my bussiness let me alone. I don't need you..." now we have this scene and the boring scene with Lindsay and "I love but it's complicate..... But I liked him in the Taxi episode when he is with Flack and Angell. I loved the interract between us. It was a reel team and not a "I can do it alone".

 

[Top41]

^Danny and Flack work together really well, and both work great with Angell. Getting back to Lindsay, I think that's another one of the character's biggest problems--she doesn't have that natural rapport with anyone on the team. So much was made of building the "relationship" with Danny that her connections with the rest of the team were never developed. Given that there's not any natural chemistry with Danny, those interactions always come off as forced. So here we are, three years later, and she's still sticking out like a sore thumb, and not in a good way. It's more a "she doesn't fit in with the rest of the team" way rather than a "she's unique and brings a different perspective" way. I think she was meant to do the latter, but she never really has.

 

[Curiosity]

Getting back to Lindsay, I think that's another one of the character's biggest problems--she doesn't have that natural rapport with anyone on the team.

Agree. I think it would really benefit Lindsay as a character if the writers would build some type of connections -- whether friendship, partnership, or even rivalry -- with others on the team. Maybe Stella would be a good choice -- it'd be nice if there were at least one strong female to female bond on a show with such a male-dominated cast. Even Sid and Adam, who aren't main cast members (yet), have interesting and entertaining connections with other team members, so one would think this could be done for Lindsday as well.

It seems like some fans do like Lindsay's chemistry/rapport with Mac, but personally I don't really see anything special there. I do think some of Lindsay's scenes with Mac (especially in her first year) may come off more favorably compared to others because she seems to be written in a more enthusiastic, engaging way and Mac seems at times to be somewhat indulgent and protective of her.

So much was made of building the "relationship" with Danny that her connections with the rest of the team were never developed.

Agree again. And that is why

Spoiler: Lindsay in Season 5

I am a bit disappointed by the indications that she may be getting some type of different recurring love interest in S5. As has been said, I think the character would be better served by building connections with other team members. And I really, really hope this storyline won't evolve into any type of love triangle or quadrangle

 

[Kimmychu]

lilou said:
I prefer Danny during the season one but at this time he was already the character that I loved least. I do not like every mime which makes the actor with the face. That irritates me. I don't like already how he reacts when somethink happen. When he have problem with police and do what he wants and no what Mac says him....But i loved his interract with Aiden en Flack (but I was not for a Danny/Aiden ship). For me he's someone who always says "it's my bussiness let me alone. I don't need you..." now we have this scene and the boring scene with Lindsay and "I love but it's complicate..... But I liked him in the Taxi episode when he is with Flack and Angell. I loved the interract between us. It was a reel team and not a "I can do it alone".

Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate it. I'm always interested to know about varying opinions on characters in the show.

Top41 said:
So much was made of building the "relationship" with Danny that her connections with the rest of the team were never developed. Given that there's not any natural chemistry with Danny, those interactions always come off as forced.

The propping business was a bad idea from the start. The fact there was even a need for her to propped in the first place should have fired alarm bells in TPTB's heads right there and then. Even worse was that she was lobbed onto the most popular character on the cast in the really transparent attempt to get people to like her via, "Oh look! The popular character likes her so you should too!"

While that may have worked on a certain group of people (and it only worked because TPTB played on Danny's/Carmine's popularity with fangirls), the ongoing existence of this thread (and its predecessors) is proof that, in the end, it failed. I think the propping thing not only backfired but made things worse for Lindsay as time passed. When it wasn't enough for Danny to be her prop, Mac's character (and sometimes even Stella's) was turned OOC in more attempts to get the audience to like her. That, too, backfired big time.

And about the chemistry thing ... anyone remember what Anna Belknap said in an interview about it?

I remember it went something along the lines of, "It's ok if you don't have it, you just sort of act it."

:brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall:

So here we are, three years later, and she's still sticking out like a sore thumb, and not in a good way. It's more a "she doesn't fit in with the rest of the team" way rather than a "she's unique and brings a different perspective" way. I think she was meant to do the latter, but she never really has.

Agreed. TPTB tried very hard to paint her in the second image. The whole 'breath of fresh air', anyone? Ya just know something ain't right somewhere when she's still being touted as such when it's been already three years. Only so long the, "She's a newbie! Give her a chance and close an eye to her lack of acting ability!" excuse can be used.

Curiosity said:
I think it would really benefit Lindsay as a character if the writers would build some type of connections -- whether friendship, partnership, or even rivalry -- with others on the team.

Agreed very much. Wasn't that what CSI:Miami did with Ryan Wolfe when he was introduced? He had this rivalry thing going on with Eric Delko, right? If I recall, Ryan was never immediately chained up with another main character as a love interest. He got to grow as his own character first before any romantic angle came into play.

What a shame it's far too late for Lindsay's character, apart from separating her from her prop Danny and hoping the damage done is still repairable. I'm not surprised TPTB is bringing in a new guy for Lindsay now that it seems TPTB may be ending the propping business for Danny (once and for all, hopefully!). I bet he's the 'back up prop' to grant her more time to get onto her own feet. I just hope he's a decent actor because the last thing I want is to see two actors on screen incapable of emoting and having to fake liking each other. Yeesh.

And seriously, TPTB, no love triangle or quadrangle crap please. All that's going to do is damage Lindsay's character more than ever. I'm hopeful by the news indicating 'a lot of things happening to Danny won't involve Lindsay' means we won't ever see anything like that come to pass.

Even Sid and Adam, who aren't main cast members (yet), have interesting and entertaining connections with other team members, so one would think this could be done for Lindsday as well.

I think TPTB did try this with Stella and Lindsay in earlier seasons. One moment that comes to mind is ... hah, the time Stella tried to approach Lindsay and Lindsay told her off and ran off without any explanation. :lol: Gee, I guess TPTB killed any chances of a close friendship between them, huh? If I remember right, Lindsay didn't even apologize for it, and still remainded huffy later on when Stella talked to her about it.

 

[Top41]

I was in the "Politics of CSI: NY" thread and Lindsay was the only one I wasn't able to even take a guess on. So much of her character has been devoted to how she feels about Danny--she has a crush on him, she's pulling away from him, she's getting in his pants, she's heartbroken because he's pulling away from her. Seriously, dark secret aside--which was more or less neatly wrapped up in season three--we know so little about her. There's just no depth there.

 

[Kimmychu]

Top41 said:
I was in the "Politics of CSI: NY" thread and Lindsay was the only one I wasn't able to even take a guess on. So much of her character has been devoted to how she feels about Danny--she has a crush on him, she's pulling away from him, she's getting in his pants, she's heartbroken because he's pulling away from her. Seriously, dark secret aside--which was more or less neatly wrapped up in season three--we know so little about her. There's just no depth there.

Agreed. It's exactly why she has to be separated from Danny as much as possible now in order to become an independent character with depth. The longer he remains her prop, the more irreparable the damage to her character will be. Perhaps TPTB has finally acknowledged this by leaving Lindsay out of things happening to Danny this season as well as introducing a new recurring character for her to interact with.

As for her politics ... I dunno, is it possible for her to be interested in anything else at all apart from herself?

 

[Shytownmofo]

Top41 said:
I was in the "Politics of CSI: NY" thread and Lindsay was the only one I wasn't able to even take a guess on. So much of her character has been devoted to how she feels about Danny--she has a crush on him, she's pulling away from him, she's getting in his pants, she's heartbroken because he's pulling away from her. Seriously, dark secret aside--which was more or less neatly wrapped up in season three--we know so little about her. There's just no depth there.

Agreed. It's exactly why she has to be separated from Danny as much as possible now in order to become an independent character with depth. The longer he remains her prop, the more irreparable the damage to her character will be. Perhaps TPTB has finally acknowledged this by leaving Lindsay out of things happening to Danny this season as well as introducing a new recurring character for her to interact with.

As for her politics ... I dunno, is it possible for her to be interested in anything else at all apart from herself?

I just hope that they don't have this other person be her prop....I'd like to see her stand completely on her own. Then, I'd like to learn more about her, fill in her backstory. It was noted in another thread that with the "Deep Dark Secret" storyline in Season 3, there was nothing mentioned about her family at the trial. I would like to have an explanation as to why (other then Danny was just propping her).

If she can't stand on her own, I'd like to see her shown the door.

And, BTW, she's probably a Libertarian. She probably thinks that people should do whatever they want, especially her.

 

[Kimmychu]

So I've been reading this excellent website, The Critical Thinking Community. Fantastic place for discovering what critical thinking is and how you can apply it to your life and all that.

I'd like to post the following list from one of the website's articles called Becoming a Critic of Your Own Thinking:

A How-To List for Dysfunctional Living

Most people have no notion of what it means to take charge of their lives. They don’t realize that the quality of their lives depends on the quality of their thinking. We all engage in numerous dysfunctional practices to avoid facing problems in our thinking. Consider the following and ask yourself how many of these dysfunctional ways of thinking you engage in:

1. Surround yourself with people who think like you. Then no one will criticize you.

2. Don’t question your relationships. You then can avoid dealing with problems within them.

3. If critiqued by a friend or lover, look sad and dejected and say, “I thought you were my friend!” or “I thought you loved me!”

4. When you do something unreasonable, always be ready with an excuse. Then you won’t have to take responsibility. If you can’t think of an excuse, look sorry and say, “I can’t help how I am!”

5. Focus on the negative side of life. Then you can make yourself miserable and blame it on others.

6. Blame others for your mistakes. Then you won’t have to feel responsible for your mistakes. Nor will you have to do anything about them.

7. Verbally attack those who criticize you. Then you don’t have to bother listening to what they say.

8. Go along with the groups you are in. Then you won’t have to figure out anything for yourself.

9. Act out when you don’t get what you want. If questioned, look indignant and say, “I’m just an emotional person. At least I don’t keep my feelings bottled up!”

10. Focus on getting what you want. If questioned, say, “If I don’t look out for number one, who will?”

As you see, the list is almost laughable. And so it would be if these irrational ways of thinking didn’t lead to problems in life. But they do. And often. Only when we are faced with the absurdity of dysfunctional thinking, and can see it at work in our lives, do we have a chance to alter it.

So. From that list, how many of those traits do you think fits Lindsay?

 

[Shytownmofo]

So I've been reading this excellent website, The Critical Thinking Community. Fantastic place for discovering what critical thinking is and how you can apply it to your life and all that.

I'd like to post the following list from one of the website's articles called Becoming a Critic of Your Own Thinking:

So. From that list, how many of those traits do you think fits Lindsay?

I pulled Seven out of the Ten that fit Lindsay. Wow. Can you say dyfunctional?

Don’t question your relationships. You then can avoid dealing with problems within them.

Well, everything she and Danny never talked about. Then, after Ruben got shot...well, Kaboom!

If critiqued by a friend or lover, look sad and dejected and say, “I thought you were my friend!” or “I thought you loved me!”

Her getting pissed off at him for not going to lunch with her in "RND, coupled with her Monologue of Doom afterwards.

When you do something unreasonable, always be ready with an excuse. Then you won’t have to take responsibility. If you can’t think of an excuse, look sorry and say, “I can’t help how I am!”

Her excuse to Mac in "LWfM" and her MoD in "RND" Even the Phone call in "PF"

Blame others for your mistakes. Then you won’t have to feel responsible for your mistakes. Nor will you have to do anything about them.

"RND", "LRC", "LWfM" "PF" All instances where she tried to blame others/Danny.

Verbally attack those who criticize you. Then you don’t have to bother listening to what they say.

Act out when you don’t get what you want. If questioned, look indignant and say, “I’m just an emotional person. At least I don’t keep my feelings bottled up!”

Focus on getting what you want. If questioned, say, “If I don’t look out for number one, who will?”

All the scenes listed above, plus her little "Experiments" and times where she was INSISTENT that she was right, when she wasn't, or the evidence didn't back her up.

Yeah, Let's put the "Fun" back in Dysfunctional.