Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[Kimmychu]

Lola86 said:
I'm a little bit confused because didn't the season 3 finale have DL stuff but the season 4 finale not? I'm not disputing what your saying about DL causing a drop in ratings - for all I know you could be right - but it sounds a little contradictory.

I can understand your confusion. :lol: People assumed the finale was going to have D/L due to spoilers released via TVGuide. Two, in fact, that heavily implied there was going to be a major D/L scene in the episode. One of the spoilers was even printed in the TVGuide magazine that hinted at an 'emotional turn for two of the team members', about a week before the episode aired, I think? Somebody correct that if I'm wrong.

So I just wanted to ask if the age thing bothered you when she first arrived?

Interesting question! I'm afraid my answer is a boring one though; I never knew TPTB intended the characters to be younger than their actors' ages, so I always presumed the characters were the same age as the actors. Age has nothing to do with my dislike for Lindsay as a character.

As far as that goes I would agree but I also think that the show doesn't need Hawkes or Danny or Flack.

Ohh, I think lots of people are going to disagree with you there. Then again, opinions are like a certain part of our posterior, everyone has one. I think even TPTB may disagree with you on the show not needing Danny because without him, they'd lose their cash cow/utility guy/whore of the show! :lol: Why else did TPTB turn Danny into a prop for Lindsay?

As for Hawkes, Zuiker actually stated in an interview that bringing Lindsay onto the show in season two was a mistake and it cost Hawkes a great deal in character development. So Hawkes having so little screen time, yeah, TPTB is definitely to blame for that. As for Flack, without his snark alone, much less being possibly the most New York-like character after Danny, there would be something vital missing from the show. The show is called CSI: New York for a reason.

 

[Faylinn]

Gah, Kimmy, I can't believe you linked to that convoluted post. :lol: Don't worry about being confused, Lola86. :lol:

Lindsay's age being different than Anna's age doesn't particularly bother me, but being expected to believe Lindsay was like 24 was a bit much because the timeline didn't match up (28, which is I think what they may have ended up implying in the end, is still pushing it). And now, yeah, Anna doesn't look as young as Lindsay is meant to be. But the show is bad about the age thing overall. I can buy Hawkes being in his early to mid 30s because he's a prodigy anyway, and Hill looks younger than he is. However, comparing Mac to Frank Grillo (I think that was his name, the guy that played his childhood friend in "The Thing about Heroes")? No way. And the actress that played Stella's foster mother was around Melina's age, wasn't she? It's all a bit hard to believe, so it's not just Lindsay there.

However, I wish SOMEONE would pay attention to the way things look in the end and stop being unflattering to Anna because seriously--I was looking at some screencaps from this season, and her makeup/hair/wardrobe wasn't doing her any favors. I don't know why they picked certain makeup colors, hair styles, etc. Seriously, what were people thinking? I'd probably look like the damn Crypt Keeper if I were ever on TV.

And no, that's not a 'ZOMG SHE'S NOT PRETTEH ENUFF GET RID OF HER!1!' comment, I'm just sayin'--one of the keys to having the character look the age she's supposed to be is not to be unflattering to the actress. Anna's not old and she shouldn't look old.

Anyway, moving on...

I can see people thinking other characters aren't worth having on the show, but therein lies differences of opinion. I think Hawkes has a distinct niche as the coroner-turned-CSI, and I wish they'd use that more. (His scenes with Sid are always a laugh.) Danny and Flack are real New York boys, and that doesn't get shown nearly enough. Flack's snark is vital if you ask me, and Danny's attitude is part of his draw--and the man is a big draw for the show.

I think my main problem with Lindsay is that, while others might not contribute much either, she's the only one I see that really detracts from the show.

And season 1 Danny wasn't a bad thing in my opinion--I wouldn't want to marry the guy, but I wouldn't want to marry lapdog Danny either. He's pretty and fun to watch on TV, but that's it. I think utilizing his season 1 attributes more is a good thing, but trying to go back and forth risks making him look inconsistent.

[/rambling]

 

[Kimmychu]

Faylinn said:
Gah, Kimmy, I can't believe you linked to that convoluted post. :lol:

Me sowwy, I can takes away if you likes. But it's a good post!

However, I wish SOMEONE would pay attention to the way things look in the end and stop being unflattering to Anna because seriously--I was looking at some screencaps from this season, and her makeup/hair/wardrobe wasn't doing her any favors. I don't know why they picked certain makeup colors, hair styles, etc.

She needs a change of stylist, stat! :lol: That screencap of Lindsay you showed me was excellent example of what you mentioned.

I think my main problem with Lindsay is that, while others might not contribute much either, she's the only one I see that really detracts from the show.

Detracting, it must be a Montana thing.

 

[Faylinn]

'IN MONTANA WE DETRACT IN THE RAIN!!!!'

Or something.

Me sowwy, I can takes away if you likes. But it's a good post!

Haha, I don't care, it just contains some dubious logic, that's all.

 

[miss_blue]

When I said that the ratings went down I had that post in mind. I understood the logic, so this means that my brain could grasp that logic, it ain't dubious

 

[Poppet]

Am I the only one who feels sorry for Anna? Lumbered with a character like Lindsey. It seems wierd to me that TPTB have such a clear defined ideas for who the other characters are like Danny, Flack, Hawkes - even Adam, but when it comes to Lindsey they keep changing their minds on who she is and what direction the character is going in. How is Anna supposed to portray Lindsey with any consistency when the character isn't written with any consistency. I am not saying I think Anna is the best actress in the world - I don't but even the best actress would struggle to make an audience empathise with such a badly written disjointed character.

I think the writers have destroyed a potentially good character and the best thing they could do now is write Lindsey out and concentrate on the characters they clearly find it easier to write for. If they got rid of Lindsey we could have more Flack, more Hawkes and more Adam - all characters who are alot more defined and alot more likable.

 

[vegaslights]

I honestly don't feel sorry for Anna. It isn't just TPTB to blame, it's Anna. She brings a very dull quality to Lindsay, and that's one of the reasons there's a problem with the character. There could be potential, if it were a different actress and if there was no romantic storyline for the character, but the thing is, Anna just don't bring game to the table.

Gah, I haven't been in here forever.

 

[miss_blue]

Am I the only one who feels sorry for Anna? Lumbered with a character like Lindsey. It seems wierd to me that TPTB have such a clear defined ideas for who the other characters are like Danny, Flack, Hawkes - even Adam, but when it comes to Lindsey they keep changing their minds on who she is and what direction the character is going in. How is Anna supposed to portray Lindsey with any consistency when the character isn't written with any consistency. I am not saying I think Anna is the best actress in the world - I don't but even the best actress would struggle to make an audience empathise with such a badly written disjointed character.

I think the writers have destroyed a potentially good character and the best thing they could do now is write Lindsey out and concentrate on the characters they clearly find it easier to write for. If they got rid of Lindsey we could have more Flack, more Hawkes and more Adam - all characters who are alot more defined and alot more likable.

Personally, I think that the writers are confused about Lindsay because they can't give Anna something to stand on her own. Carmine portrayed Danny with such passion, even when he had shitty material to do that. They tried giving Lindsay a story, but she needed Danny to stand on her own feet because Anna is not that passionate about what she does. At least that's how she come off to me. She just looks like she doesn't give a crap.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I don't feel sorry for Anna either. She's a professional actress so even if TPTB aren't doing the best things with her character she should still be able to pull off a good, believable performance. I feel sorry for Melina. She consistently brings her A game and TPTB throw "All Access," Drew, the HIV scare, her saying she grew up in an orphanage and then all of a sudden she was in foster care for a bit, at her. Those stories were crap but Melina was great in all of them. Anna is screwing herself over just as much as TPTB are screwing Lindsay over.

As far as Lindsay's age vs. Anna's age, I will echo Kimmy. I never thought about the characters' ages until there was something brought up that made me go :wtf:. Lindsay's age was never brought up until the trial, and even then they never came out and actually said how old she was at the time her friends were killed. Spoilers indicated that she was 18, and then 14. The kids in the flashback looked 12-14. Once that all came out it bothered me that we were supposed to believe Lindsay was 28 at the oldest.

 

[Curiosity]

Just my two cents on Lindsay....

I don't hate the character but have never really warmed up to her and am rather indifferent at this point. My impression (and I don't know if it's correct) is that LIndsay, as initially conceived, was supposed to provide a more youthful, girlish, small town perspective that would be a contrast of sorts to Stella.

I'm not sure what went wrong, but somewhere between the writing and the acting, those elements that could've given Lindsay some uniqueness within the team seem largely to have been lost, especially the youthfulness, fun, and enthusiasm. And this is not a slam against the actress, but I do think the character's appearance also is a factor. During the last season or more, LIndsay's wardrobe and hairstyles have made her appear older and more (for lack of a better word) matronly, which has taken away from the youthful aspect, as well as impacting the effectiveness of the romantic storyline, imo.

Having said that, I do think the producers/writers were on the right track in trying to bring in a female character who would be different than Stella. Whether LIndsay can still be that character or not, I don't know....But it does seem like a good time for the producers/writers and actress to take another look and see if they can get the character back on track, preferrably with better storylines.

Slightly OT, but that also relates to why I'm not really a proponent of bringing Quinn in as a CSI replacement. At this point, Quinn seems more in the mold of Stella to me, and I'd like to see a bit more diversity (in age, personality, etc.) among the regular female characters.
​

 

[origin-nknwn]

You know, all this talk of stage acting being the reason she can't set the screen alight with her presence really bothers me. Especially when there are some phenomenal stage actors and actresses who have made the transition to TV - and continue to switch between the screens and stage with ease - without any of the problems she has.

I mean, talk of stage actors includes the likes of Patrick Stewart - are we really sticking her in that class??? Because as a fan of his, I sure as hell hope not.

 

[stormymac]

You know, all this talk of stage acting being the reason she can't set the screen alight with her presence really bothers me. Especially when there are some phenomenal stage actors and actresses who have made the transition to TV - and continue to switch between the screens and stage with ease - without any of the problems she has.

I mean, talk of stage actors includes the likes of Patrick Stewart - are we really sticking her in that class??? Because as a fan of his, I sure as hell hope not.

I agree with this. With all do respect to Carmine, my choice for Best Supporting Actor this year is Robert Sean Leonard. He was absolutely heartbreaking in the season finale of House. This is a Tony Award winning actor who has always said that he feels most at home on the stage yet he has no problem translating his amazing talent to the tv screen.

 

[origin-nknwn]

I agree with this. With all do respect to Carmine, my choice for Best Supporting Actor this year is Robert Sean Leonard. He was absolutely heartbreaking in the season finale of House. This is a Tony Award winning actor who has always said that he feels most at home on the stage yet he has no problem translating his amazing talent to the tv screen.

Without spoiling House for anyone who might not have seen, and despite the fact that I would love to see Carmine win, I have to agree with this comment. House's season finale was the best of all the shows I watch and RSL totally nailed his scenes in that.

If either Robert or Carmine fail to be nominated after their performances in their episodes, it'll be criminal in my opinion.

 

[Top41]

Am I the only one who feels sorry for Anna? Lumbered with a character like Lindsey. It seems wierd to me that TPTB have such a clear defined ideas for who the other characters are like Danny, Flack, Hawkes - even Adam, but when it comes to Lindsey they keep changing their minds on who she is and what direction the character is going in. How is Anna supposed to portray Lindsey with any consistency when the character isn't written with any consistency. I am not saying I think Anna is the best actress in the world - I don't but even the best actress would struggle to make an audience empathise with such a badly written disjointed character.

While I agree that part of the fault for Lindsay's weakness as a character lies with TPTB, a good chunk of it lies with Anna, too. Yes, Lindsay has been written inconsistently as a character. But she had a chance to prove herself with the whole dark secret storyline and she really fell flat. "Silent Night" should have been a fantastic episode for Lindsay, but it wasn't, because Anna's delivery was just downright bad.

Lindsay isn't written to be an unsympathetic character, so it's Anna's job to make her sympathetic, and she just fails at that. Lindsay is wooden and stiff when she's meant to be emotional.

As others have mentioned, "All Access" really had a terrible storyline, but Melina was downright fantastic in it. A good actor can work with mediocre or even bad storylines. So no, I don't feel sorry for Anna. She's laughing all the way to the bank with the fat paycheck she gets for her abysmal work on CSI: NY.

Just my two cents on Lindsay....

I don't hate the character but have never really warmed up to her and am rather indifferent at this point. My impression (and I don't know if it's correct) is that LIndsay, as initially conceived, was supposed to provide a more youthful, girlish, small town perspective that would be a contrast of sorts to Stella.

I'm not sure what went wrong, but somewhere between the writing and the acting, those elements that could've given Lindsay some uniqueness within the team seem largely to have been lost, especially the youthfulness, fun, and enthusiasm. And this is not a slam against the actress, but I do think the character's appearance also is a factor. During the last season or more, LIndsay's wardrobe and hairstyles have made her appear older and more (for lack of a better word) matronly, which has taken away from the youthful aspect, as well as impacting the effectiveness of the romantic storyline, imo.

I agree completely with this assessment. Lindsay was supposed to be a young, fun character and the reason she's not comes down to miscasting. Anna doesn't really have the warmth and lightness as an actress to embody a role like that. There are actresses that do, but Anna is not one of them. Initially I think she looked the part which is probably why she got it, but personality-wise, no, she's not the right actress for a role like that. And yeah, Lindsay's hairstyle and wardrobe have done her no favors this season.

Having said that, I do think the producers/writers were on the right track in trying to bring in a female character who would be different than Stella. Whether LIndsay can still be that character or not, I don't know....But it does seem like a good time for the producers/writers and actress to take another look and see if they can get the character back on track, preferrably with better storylines.

Slightly OT, but that also relates to why I'm not really a proponent of bringing Quinn in as a CSI replacement. At this point, Quinn seems more in the mold of Stella to me, and I'd like to see a bit more diversity (in age, personality, etc.) among the regular female characters.

I think Kristen Dalton is 41, but she's got more verve and energy than Lindsay has ever had. I'd love to see Quinn replace Lindsay, because Quinn does truly bring something to the show that wasn't there before. She's got a different kind of energy, an edge without being overbearing, that's really appealing. And yeah, Quinn and Stella are the same age, but better than than watching Lindsay suck the life and energy out of scenes.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

You know, all this talk of stage acting being the reason she can't set the screen alight with her presence really bothers me. Especially when there are some phenomenal stage actors and actresses who have made the transition to TV - and continue to switch between the screens and stage with ease - without any of the problems she has.

I mean, talk of stage actors includes the likes of Patrick Stewart - are we really sticking her in that class??? Because as a fan of his, I sure as hell hope not.

I think what most of us are saying is it's surprising her being a stage actress and not being able to adapt well to TV. There are some phenomenal stage actors who have some difficulty when going from stage to screen at first (and there's nothing wrong with that at all, and most pick up fast).

The thing with Anna is while most people adapt fast she doesn't seem to have adapted well at all. And it's been three years.