Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[CSI_in_training]

From what I've read, quite a few people here would like Lindsay better if she was played by a better actress. Not to diss Anna, but some of her scenes make me think that there has to be someone who could've played her better.
As for the D/L thing, the reason I think it's rushed might be that it took seven seasons so really get into Sara/Grissom on Vegas, and last time I watched it there still weren't a lot of real and lasting relationships on Miami (except around Natalia), and yet it took barely two seasons for Danny and Lindsay to hook up. Not that relationships like that don't happen, just not like that.
And as Fay said, there has to be a reason there are 2000+ post here, and that reason has to be bigger than "we don't like her".

 

[kinkapoodles]

Sometimes I feel like you guys are over-focused in your dislike.

This is the Why Lindsay Must Go Thread. I would expect dislike in here and whether it's over focused or not, is just an opinion. I find it fascinating that we are now on the third thread with over 2000 posts on the subject. That should say something about the character of Lindsay.

Also, your point that Carmine sits down and discusses his role with the authors ... note that he also says that in the end its their choice. He doesn't get his way either.

Yes, I know he says that but at least he seems to make more of an effort when it comes to his character and he has said before they use their ad-libs a lot of the time. IMO, Anna just either doesn't care much about Lindsay and/or she just didn't bother to take them time to give a good enough reason but my real point was that other actors on the show have mentioned more than once how they discuss their characters with the writers. It's not always necessarily to change things. It could very well just be to understand where the writers are coming from.

Also this season the bad editing made Lindsay look happy after Danny's loss in Child's Play. That was editing gone bad--if you follow the lines in conversation, its all out of order.

I don't agree that bad editing can be blamed for Lindsay being a bad character. I think it's several things. I know that bad editing isn't what makes her have that one single scrunch faced looked for almost every emotion.

I don't think any other character has ever needed as many excuses as Lindsay--emotional scenes aren't her strong point in one instance, it's all the writers' fault in another instance, editing is to blame in yet another instance. All of the characters have bad lines, bad scenes that make you scratch your head, delivery that makes you cringe--but never as much as Lindsay seems to have.

I've noticed that too. I've also never seen another character where her fans also complain about a lot of the stuff others who don't like her complain about.

 

[Top41]

*Ahem, ahem* Let's do away with the graphics. Name calling doesn't generally make for good discussion.

That being said, neither does coming in and saying people are "over-focused on their dislike." This is a message board about a TV show--we're all a little over-focused. Take that as a given.

Danny was able to shine in the Child's Play arc, but before that he was watered down plot wise as is Hawkes. I think Flack comes out differently because he has a different role. It's funny that when it comes to Danny, its the writers that are blamed.

This is actually the only point in your post that I vehemently disagree with. Danny was neglected in season three, but by no means did he fade into the background or feel entirely "watered down." Carmine injected what he could into the scenes--Danny would make a face at something or appear wide-eyed about something else. I can name several episodes off the top of my head where he gave memorable performances--"Not What It Looks Like," "Hung Out to Dry," "Raising Shane," "Past Imperfect," "Comes Around," and of course, "Snow Day." Even if you take "Snow Day" and "Raising Shane," where Danny had a larger roles, you've still got a handful of episodes where Carmine managed to work depth into smaller moments in his performance. Carmine is so good that he deserves an arc like the "Child's Play" one, but that doesn't mean he flounders or fades into the background without it.

I agree that writing/editing/etc impact character as much as (or sometimes more than) acting--but while that (possibly) excuses the actor, it doesn't change the fact that the character comes across badly. Anna's acting is part of the reason why Lindsay is a bad character IMO, but the character itself is a combination of acting, writing, editing, etc.

I don't think any other character has ever needed as many excuses as Lindsay--emotional scenes aren't her strong point in one instance, it's all the writers' fault in another instance, editing is to blame in yet another instance. All of the characters have bad lines, bad scenes that make you scratch your head, delivery that makes you cringe--but never as much as Lindsay seems to have.

The laundry list of excuses gets me, too. One or two, maybe, but come on! It's just endless with her:

There have been so many excuses given for her inability to be a multi-dimensional character -- the actress is new, the actress was pregnant, the actress just had a baby, the editors cut her funny, the writers write her wrong, she has had too many personalities, she doesn't get good storylines. And all those things are valid points -- although I would argue that the pregnancy and baby are not valid excuses for not doing a good job. Anyway, if she is such a great character, she should be able to stand on her own merits without excuse after excuse being trotted out.

privatename pretty much lays them all out. And I have to echo what she says--if Lindsay was a great character, would even half of these excuses be needed? Has anyone ever fallen back on any of them for any of the other characters?

 

[Faylinn]

*Ahem, ahem* Let's do away with the graphics. Name calling doesn't generally make for good discussion.

*hangs head* Yes, ma'am.

Has anyone ever fallen back on any of them for any of the other characters?

I don't think so, no. People often complain that Hawkes doesn't get storylines, for example, but his relevance and importance are never questioned--what I see is generally people wanting more because Hill/Hawkes is just good like that. :lol:

 

[chaostheory08]

If we were all alike and liked everyone, the world would be a very boring place.

Oh I know some place that is like this. With fluff and pinks and fogs and everything.

Sometimes I feel like you guys are over-focused in your dislike.

Oh? Well, what else is there to talk about with Lindsey? And hey... *see thread title

But it's funny because you find out from the writers where it's going and then you make it work for yourself. I was like, "Why am I standing him up? I've been going after him for ages!" But it makes it more fun.

Huh? How does that make it fun? Makes it confusing, that's what it does.

 

[MichelleK]

I'm coming back into the thread after a little while.
We are currently just about to have Child's Play in the UK and Lindsay to be fair hasn't be as annoying a character this year. She seems to be in the background more which is fine by me.
I think the main problem is no one really understands what kind of CSI she is. She isn't compassionate or edgy and I don't know, she doesn't make me feel any sympathy at all to her character. If anyone else had her storylines they would knock it out of the ball park.
I think we all are finding it hard to relate with her as Lindsay because the interviews that Anna is doing shows she doesn't really have a clue about the character either. We have read several interviews with Carmine, Eddie and even AJ and they seem to know there characters inside out and have aspects of themselves thrown in there. Anna just seems to turn up to work and just read her lines. It's just a job to her nothing more, nothing less.
That maybe completely wrong but that's my take on it.

 

[baker_grad]

I suppose I wasn't refering to this thread in particular, but the way the same people from this thread will jump on anything positive said about Lindsay anywhere on this board. I get that that's why this thread is here.

I feel like Lindsay acts like Lindsay and I like Lindsay. Most of the people I talk to, blog with, don't like the fluffy D/L stuff, but the consistent relationship and her view of being a CSI--it's not Danny's or Stellas or Macs. It doesn't make sense to you, it does make sense to others. She's accused of being self centered, I suppose its a little self-centered to title a thread "why Lindsay must go" so the show can be as you want it. I know! I know! It's the purpose of the thread

Some of the things I see from the discussion are things like ... hey, look how she left Adam alone with the puzzle and jumped in when Mac showed up. But come on. She was working with a rock and a cardboard box. If it had been the other way around, it would have been said that Lindsay left Adam with the rock and a cardboard box and got the more exciting puzzle ... hey. It had mediam velocity blood spatter on it.

Or in dealing with the case with her friends. If she had been really emotional, I'm sure people would have complained (rightly so) that she's been a CSI and involved with this for years, dealing with it. She became a CSI to deal with it. She should have a better handle on it. She did get more emotional on day 1 ... the second day she had control. Too much Drama is just melodrama.

That's what I mean by over focused. You can look at everything you say from two different ways.

And FYI ... this post has gotten to 2000 plus not because 2000 plus people have had a lot to say, but because the same people keep jumping in and saying the same things. Look from today and yesterday. That's okay. The same people that usually post, posted again. Numbers mean very little and I tend to stay away from them in trying to prove a point.

FYI I am a fan of old TV. I like when the relationships take a back seat and are part of who the characters are as a whole. I work with people who are in healthy relationships, are married, and they act (at work) just like Danny and Lindsay do on the job. I think its important for that type of healthy relationship to be seen in the workplace and as scientists, I'm sure in real life it happens. I don't like the drama and the focus to be about the relationships. Especially a crime show. So I support the relationship of Danny and Lindsay and I think if you accepted that Lindsay is supposed to be different from her counterparts, you could accept the acting. She just acts like Lindsay.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I suppose I wasn't refering to this thread in particular, but the way the same people from this thread will jump on anything positive said about Lindsay anywhere on this board. I get that that's why this thread is here.

When people who don't like Lindsay respond to points made about why someone likes Lindsay it's more often than not seen as "jumping on" the poster or the character. Yet, when people who like Lindsay come in and make accusations/generalizations about the people who don't like Lindsay, that is somehow OK. That makes no sense to me.

I feel like Lindsay acts like Lindsay and I like Lindsay. Most of the people I talk to, blog with, don't like the fluffy D/L stuff, but the consistent relationship and her view of being a CSI--it's not Danny's or Stellas or Macs. It doesn't make sense to you, it does make sense to others.

You're right. Some people like her and see her as consistent and others don't. Thus the reason for this thread - some people don't like her and the character doesn't make sense to them. If you understand that I don't see what your problem is with this thread or those who dislike Lindsay. It's all opinion - no one is claiming to have the right answer.

She's accused of being self centered, I suppose its a little self-centered to title a thread "why Lindsay must go" so the show can be as you want it. I know! I know! It's the purpose of the thread

People who like Lindsay make posts on how they'd like Lindsay to behave, what story lines they'd like to see for her, how they'd like DL to develop so the show can be as they want it. People who do and don't like Lindsay talk about what they want from other characters and their story lines. You talk about how you like the show with Lindsay as she is. I guess we're all selfish and want the show to be what we like, aren't we?

Some of the things I see from the discussion are things like ... hey, look how she left Adam alone with the puzzle and jumped in when Mac showed up. But come on. She was working with a rock and a cardboard box. If it had been the other way around, it would have been said that Lindsay left Adam with the rock and a cardboard box and got the more exciting puzzle ... hey. It had mediam velocity blood spatter on it.

And from people who like Lindsay you'll get a complaint about her needing to have things explained to her like she's stupid. But then when she explains something, the same people will complain about her being used as a Captain Obvious. What you're describing is hardly unique to people who dislike Lindsay or even unique to complaining about a particular character.

Or in dealing with the case with her friends. If she had been really emotional, I'm sure people would have complained (rightly so) that she's been a CSI and involved with this for years, dealing with it. She became a CSI to deal with it. She should have a better handle on it. She did get more emotional on day 1 ... the second day she had control. Too much Drama is just melodrama.

People mostly complained about inconsistency and bad acting. The story and portrayal weren't convincing to some.

That's what I mean by over focused. You can look at everything you say from two different ways.

You can look at anything anyone says from more than one angle. And as Top said, it's a message board - everyone here is over focused on CSI: NY and its characters and stories. From what I've seen, most of your posts to this forum have been concentrated on people who don't like Lindsay and their motivations. I would call that over focused.

And FYI ... this post has gotten to 2000 plus not because 2000 plus people have had a lot to say, but because the same people keep jumping in and saying the same things. Look from today and yesterday. That's okay. The same people that usually post, posted again. Numbers mean very little and I tend to stay away from them in trying to prove a point.

You're right. Just like there haven't been four Anna/Lindsay threads because 3000+ people like her. The same people ususally post over and over in that thread and the same points are discussed repeatedly. That happens with all topics of discussion, not just those about Lindsay. The point isn't that 2000+ people dislike Lindsay. The point is that the dislike is strong enough from people who do dislike her to keep the discussion going.

FYI I am a fan of old TV. I like when the relationships take a back seat and are part of who the characters are as a whole. I work with people who are in healthy relationships, are married, and they act (at work) just like Danny and Lindsay do on the job. I think its important for that type of healthy relationship to be seen in the workplace and as scientists, I'm sure in real life it happens.

Yeah, it does happen. But seeing Danny and Lindsay's relationship as healthy is just another opinion. I personally don't see it that way and I don't think it's been convincing as to how or why these two would be together or how they relate to each other now that they are together.

So I support the relationship of Danny and Lindsay and I think if you accepted that Lindsay is supposed to be different from her counterparts, you could accept the acting. She just acts like Lindsay.

We all know Lindsay is supposed to be different from her counterparts. TPTB take every opportunity to shove her being from Montana down our throats. That has nothing to do with the acting. What you're basically saying is that if we all accept your opinion everything would be fine. Sorry, I have my own brain and I'm not afraid to use it.

 

[privatename]

So I support the relationship of Danny and Lindsay and I think if you accepted that Lindsay is supposed to be different from her counterparts, you could accept the acting. She just acts like Lindsay.

I am sorry, but this doesn't make any sense to me. Like PerfectAnomoly brought up: we know that Lindsay is supposed to be different from her counterparts. She should be. Why would they put another character in who was just like a character they already had?

The implication in your statement is that all her counterparts are the same when they clearly aren't. They are all different; different from Lindsay and different from each other. They are supposed to be. And yet, I like all the others. Granted I like them to differing degrees, but there is no other character that I dislike. So, the fact that she is different from her counterparts has nothing to with anything about why I dislike her. As a matter of fact, it would be pretty weird if she came in and tried to be the same as Stella or any one else in the lab. Of course, if she did, then we could point out on this thread that her character serves no purpose at all because she is just like "x" character

 

[Top41]

I suppose I wasn't refering to this thread in particular, but the way the same people from this thread will jump on anything positive said about Lindsay anywhere on this board. I get that that's why this thread is here.

Again, let's stay on topic and not make accusations or assumptions about people who might not hold the same views as you. It's great to come in here and discuss this, but doing it without making accusations about the "other side" would be much more constructive.

I feel like Lindsay acts like Lindsay and I like Lindsay. Most of the people I talk to, blog with, don't like the fluffy D/L stuff, but the consistent relationship and her view of being a CSI--it's not Danny's or Stellas or Macs. It doesn't make sense to you, it does make sense to others. She's accused of being self centered, I suppose its a little self-centered to title a thread "why Lindsay must go" so the show can be as you want it. I know! I know! It's the purpose of the thread

That's just debate rhetoric.

Or in dealing with the case with her friends. If she had been really emotional, I'm sure people would have complained (rightly so) that she's been a CSI and involved with this for years, dealing with it. She became a CSI to deal with it. She should have a better handle on it. She did get more emotional on day 1 ... the second day she had control. Too much Drama is just melodrama.

It's not so much that she didn't get emotional, it's more that she wasn't convincing when she did--like in "Silent Night" when she cried in the morgue--and there was no depth to her performance, no layers. In "The Lying Game," it was fine that she didn't cry with Mac and Stella. I'm glad she didn't, both for the character's sake and because Anna doesn't do that well. But I should have been able to see Lindsay's struggle in her performance and I just didn't.

That's what I mean by over focused. You can look at everything you say from two different ways.

Sure you can, but that's the beauty of debate and discussion and differing opinions.

So I support the relationship of Danny and Lindsay and I think if you accepted that Lindsay is supposed to be different from her counterparts, you could accept the acting. She just acts like Lindsay.

Yeah, but Lindsay is all over the place. One day she's happy and funny and light, the next she's down and dark and brooding, the next she's obsessed, and so on. One season she's chasing Danny, the next she's pulling away. She's just... contradictory in a way real people aren't. Her whole personality changes from episode to episode--or did before season four.

As for "accepting the acting"--it's the actor or actress's responsibility to convince us that the character is real. You can hate a character, but a lot of times that's in part because a character is portrayed well by the actor/actress playing him/her. Think Ben on Lost or J.R. Ewing on Dallas. Two bad, bad dudes that are utterly fantastic characters.

That's not the problem here. Anna's acting is unconvincing at times. Like I've said before, she's gotten better this year, and while I still don't like the character, I do usually get where she's coming from. The selfishness isn't a good quality, but it's one that they've kept consistent for Lindsay, and that's something.

You're right. Just like there haven't been four Anna/Lindsay threads because 3000+ people like her. The same people ususally post over and over in that thread and the same points are discussed repeatedly. That happens with all topics of discussion, not just those about Lindsay. The point isn't that 2000+ people dislike Lindsay. The point is that the dislike is strong enough from people who do dislike her to keep the discussion going.

Yep. Again, this is true of any thread. Even the Danny thread has the same people posting it in--and he's the most popular character. That's just the nature of a message board.

 

[Showtime]

I'm on the of the original Lindsay-haters. I watched the first season religiously, and though I found Aiden somewhat bland and grating (and also pretty poorly acted), I was still intrigued. I figure this has something to do with the natural chemistry VF had with the other actors. Nonetheless, I wasn't too choked up when she left. I understand that Lindsay is an entirely separate character than Aiden, but it doesn't come off that way -- to me, Lindsay was introduced so Stella would not be the only female on the team. Unnecessary, in my opinion, as Stella is strong enough for the show and has so far been portrayed as such (besides, of course, the cringe worthy All Access).

I would have been much more receptive to the character had she not come off as so self-insisting. There's always been a "Ooh, look at me! I'm your all-American girl-next-door but I kick ass, take names and settle down for a dish of deep fried spider after!" quality about her, and after the first ten seconds it gets kind of annoying. I wouldn't mind Lindsay as a lab tech, detective or coroner who got minimal screen time and even less story lines, but instead I get spoonfed this nonsense about her tr00 luv with Danny and AB's piss-poor acting.

In short: No thanks. If I was looking for sappy rating grabs I'd watch Degrassi. All the same drama, just aimed at an appropriate age group without the pretentiousness.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

So I support the relationship of Danny and Lindsay and I think if you accepted that Lindsay is supposed to be different from her counterparts, you could accept the acting. She just acts like Lindsay.

I'll "accept the acting" the minute I believe Anna isn't Anna but she IS Lindsay. Not acting like Lindsay.

 

[CSI_DannyFan]

I Have no complaints.lol I Love her and much more then Aiden.I Didn't connect with her character at all.And I like Anna much better as a actress and so far im enjoying her.

 

[miss_blue]

I didn't like Aiden, but I didn't dislike her either. She was sort of "just a babbling character". I realized a few days ago that I actually watched many episodes of Medical Investigation (the one Anna was in) way back before I started watching NY. My conclusion? Until I rewatched M.I. after CSI I realized that was Anna playing the part of that journalist. So I just thought why I didn't even notice her on MI but on CSI she stands out in a negative way? Found multiple reasons. One of them is that she was pushed to stand out since the first episode, and quite frankly I didn't like her from Zoo York. Too many Montana references (that went on and on throughout the seasons till present day). Silent Night was the episode that sealed my dislike for Lindsay.

 

[Top41]

I saw Anna in MI both before and after NY. To be honest, I was really curious about MI, but the first episode turned me off, and Anna's character was part of that. I thought the thing in the first episode where she flirts and tricks the guy into the garage was a little demeaning for a professional female character, but I don't think it had anything to do with Anna's acting. I've since rewatched that episode and watched several more, and I think she was fine in MI. Not Emmy-award-winning by any means, but certainly not downright bad like she has been in CSI: NY.

Anna herself said her NY audition sucked. Maybe she wasn't able to get a handle on the role. I'm still not really confident that she has, but she hasn't had any cringe-worthy moments this season like she did in her first two. But then, she hasn't been called upon to emote, either. She's better with the light stuff, so it's good they've just been giving her light stuff and nothing else this season. I guess if the season gets more dramatic, we'll see how she handles it.