Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[JellyBelly]

Carmine acknowledged that Danny was used to prop Lindsay up, but I don't think he implied that he was pissed about it. Was he 100% pleased? He obviously had things he didn't love, but I don't think he was whining about any of it--he's a smart guy, he's not going to trash his show and the people in charge.

Yep, no biting off the hand that feeds and all that.

JellyBelly, I can't remember which episode it was, but Mac came into the lab and told Adam off for giving results to Gerrard (who asked for them) instead of getting them to Mac first. Adam hadn't done anything wrong, and Stella stood up for him, but Mac still chewed him out. Adam's 'mistake' wouldn't get evidence thrown out of court, and Mac should know that Adam has an abusive past--if he's going to cut Lindsay slack for her personal shit, he should pay Adam the same courtesy. *shrug*

Ahh, right now I remember. Thank you. I agree that Mac should be consistent but I can't help but like the fact that he shows his human side every now and then. It'd be nice to see him cutting someone other than Danny or Lindsay some slack though.

 

[Top41]

I think if Lindsay had messed up once or twice and that was it, people would be willing to cut her a lot more slack. But the fact is, she messes up or throws attitude around a lot: she's fobbed her duties off on Danny, she left a crime scene, she's stormed out of an interrogation, she left evidence unattended. It's not just a once or twice thing--Lindsay is unprofessional. And that's why it's frustrating to see Mac cut her slack when characters who have only slipped up once like Hawkes or Adam are chewed out for their single missteps.

Danny was taken off the promotion grid when he messed up. It's ridiculous that Lindsay's many screw-ups aren't taken more seriously.

As for Carmine, I think he expressed his reservations with the storyline without insulting the writers or TPTB. It looks like he got what he wanted this season: an intense, passionate storyline for Danny. I think it's also worth noting that the writers did lay off the D/L pairing for the first half of the season.

Just wanted to add that I appreciate your perspective, JellyBelly. I might not be a fan of Lindsay, but I do see where you're coming from. And I do like that Mac has mellowed a bit, but I think the integrity of the lab is something that has always come first for him, so it seemed out of character for him to essentially give Lindsay a pass when he's come down so hard on others. That's not necessarily Lindsay's fault per se, but it did irritate me. Maybe if she'd actually suffered some consequences for her actions at any point, I might have more sympathy for her. So many people say they want to see Danny learn and grow, but what about Lindsay? I think she's got a lot of growing up to do, and her getting free passes clearly isn't helpful to that growth.

 

[JellyBelly]

I think if Lindsay had messed up once or twice and that was it, people would be willing to cut her a lot more slack. But the fact is, she messes up or throws attitude around a lot: she's fobbed her duties off on Danny, she left a crime scene, she's stormed out of an interrogation, she left evidence unattended. It's not just a once or twice thing--Lindsay is unprofessional. And that's why it's frustrating to see Mac cut her slack when characters who have only slipped up once like Hawkes or Adam are chewed out for their single missteps.

Danny was taken off the promotion grid when he messed up. It's ridiculous that Lindsay's many screw-ups aren't taken more seriously.

As for Carmine, I think he expressed his reservations with the storyline without insulting the writers or TPTB. It looks like he got what he wanted this season: an intense, passionate storyline for Danny. I think it's also worth noting that the writers did lay off the D/L pairing for the first half of the season.

Just wanted to add that I appreciate your perspective, JellyBelly. I might not be a fan of Lindsay, but I do see where you're coming from. And I do like that Mac has mellowed a bit, but I think the integrity of the lab is something that has always come first for him, so it seemed out of character for him to essentially give Lindsay a pass when he's come down so hard on others. That's not necessarily Lindsay's fault per se, but it did irritate me. Maybe if she'd actually suffered some consequences for her actions at any point, I might have more sympathy for her. So many people say they want to see Danny learn and grow, but what about Lindsay? I think she's got a lot of growing up to do, and her getting free passes clearly isn't helpful to that growth.

I can appreciate your irritation I guess in Mac's defense did he actually know about her other indiscretions? Stella covered for her when she left the crime scene and in fact I thought Stella dealt with the whole situation perfectly; let her know who's boss but once she knew there was something troubling her she offered her support.

 

[Top41]

^That's the problem with Lindsay: people are always covering for her and it means she's not accountable for her actions. Danny covered for her in "Oedipus Hex" and Stella in "Silent Night," so no, Mac probably didn't know about either incident. Still, he's Mac and Lindsay compromised the lab and I would have expected him to be more firm about that and not all, "I'm more worried about you than the fact that you left evidence out." That's not Mac. He holds his team to a high standard, and I'm not sure why Lindsay should be any different. I'm just sick of her getting passes when really, her behavior doesn't change. If Lindsay is ever to grow as a character, she should be called to the carpet and forced to face the consequences of what she's done. I'm tired of seeing her mess up and have other characters cover for her.

 

[miss_blue]

^Yeah, Oedipus Hex and Silent Night are the perfect examples. Is not only her messing up, but her inconsistency too. In All Access what happened to Stella struck Lindsay in a personal way, and she was so disturbed, that it also affected her work (luckily, Danny was there) and in Right Next Door, again when Stella was in trouble she couldn't give a crap, because eating out with Danny was far too important. Adam who seemed not to have any other connection with Stella other than boss-employee was concerned, affectionate and helpful.

I wouldn't have anything against seeing Lindsay development. And paying for her actions is one of them. Just one story line that can show that she is not leaning against Danny to actually have a personality. All Lindsay's actions were drawn by Danny. This has been going on since she first came. I think it's a bit late for her to have development, but if the writers decide to give her something major that will have nothing to do with Danny, I'd be more than happy to give her another chance (I've lost count, but I feel generous). I think people will respond better to Lindsay if she got her own personality, and not have 4 people mold their character along with her.

 

[Top41]

^Yeah, Oedipus Hex and Silent Night are the perfect examples. Is not only her messing up, but her inconsistency too. In All Access what happened to Stella struck Lindsay in a personal way, and she was so disturbed, that it also affected her work (luckily, Danny was there) and in Right Next Door, again when Stella was in trouble she couldn't give a crap, because eating out with Danny was far too important.

Good point. I hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah, that's definitely an example of both her inconsistency as a character and her pathological self-centered behavior. Danny's all like, "Tell Stella if there's anything she needs, I'm there!" and Lindsay's response is, "Yeah, yeah, can I buy you lunch and get in your pants?" :lol:

 

[JellyBelly]

^Yeah, Oedipus Hex and Silent Night are the perfect examples. Is not only her messing up, but her inconsistency too. In All Access what happened to Stella struck Lindsay in a personal way, and she was so disturbed, that it also affected her work (luckily, Danny was there) and in Right Next Door, again when Stella was in trouble she couldn't give a crap, because eating out with Danny was far too important.

Good point. I hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah, that's definitely an example of both her inconsistency as a character and her pathological self-centered behavior. Danny's all like, "Tell Stella if there's anything she needs, I'm there!" and Lindsay's response is, "Yeah, yeah, can I buy you lunch and get in your pants?" :lol:

See, now that's where my interpretation of that is different. Yes, Lindsay rushed through the 'yeah, yeah she's fine' routine but I took that as her being nervous about asking him to lunch (which says something about where their 'relationship' was at that point ). Also, to me, Danny's offer of help was rushed as tho he was trying to deflect the conversation (also very telling). And we can't ignore the fact that while Lindsay may have wanted to eat out with Danny or get into his pants, Danny was busy eating in (Messer's famous omelette) and shagging the neighbour. :lol:

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

^Yeah, Oedipus Hex and Silent Night are the perfect examples. Is not only her messing up, but her inconsistency too. In All Access what happened to Stella struck Lindsay in a personal way, and she was so disturbed, that it also affected her work (luckily, Danny was there) and in Right Next Door, again when Stella was in trouble she couldn't give a crap, because eating out with Danny was far too important.

Good point. I hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah, that's definitely an example of both her inconsistency as a character and her pathological self-centered behavior. Danny's all like, "Tell Stella if there's anything she needs, I'm there!" and Lindsay's response is, "Yeah, yeah, can I buy you lunch and get in your pants?" :lol:

See, now that's where my interpretation of that is different. Yes, Lindsay rushed through the 'yeah, yeah she's fine' routine but I took that as her being nervous about asking him to lunch (which says something about where their 'relationship' was at that point ). Also, to me, Danny's offer of help was rushed as tho he was trying to deflect the conversation (also very telling). And we can't ignore the fact that while Lindsay may have wanted to eat out with Danny or get into his pants, Danny was busy eating in (Messer's famous omelette) and shagging the neighbour. :lol:

Maybe Danny's offer to help was rushed - IMO, it wasn't - and yes, he was with Rikki. That's not the point. He still offered genuine help and showed genuine concern for Stella. Lindsay didn't and that's inconsistent with prior behavior. Also, Lindsay didn't sound or look "nervous" about asking Danny to lunch to me, but obviously that's up to interpretation. And Danny was trying to deflect the conversation, but that was after Lindsay asked him to lunch. He showed concern and offered help for Stella right away before the conversation even got going.

 

[JellyBelly]

Maybe Danny's offer to help was rushed - IMO, it wasn't - and yes, he was with Rikki. That's not the point. He still offered genuine help and showed genuine concern for Stella. Lindsay didn't and that's inconsistent with prior behavior. Also, Lindsay didn't sound or look "nervous" about asking Danny to lunch to me, but obviously that's up to interpretation. And Danny was trying to deflect the conversation, but that was after Lindsay asked him to lunch. He showed concern and offered help for Stella right away before the conversation even got going.

I don't think his offer was rushed per se, I think the words out of his mouth were tho. I don't doubt the offer was 100% genuine. The first thought that entered my mind when I saw the scene was that he seemed to rush into asking about Stella and I wondered if it was in part to do with some degree of discomfort at having Lindsay on the phone when Rikki was in the bedroom. I understand that for those of you who don't believe D/L were in a mutual relationship that it could be he had nothing to feel uncomfortable about but for me, as someone who believed D/L were together in some sort of mutual relationship it just seemed strange. Again with the different perceptions/interpretations.

As for Lindsay not showing genuine concern for Stella, she'd been working the case so had no reason at that point to suddenly express concern for Stella., she would have already seen her and would have known Stella was okay (not great but okay). And yes, to me Lindsay seemed nervous (and hopeful) when she asked him to lunch; the way she bit her lip made me think that while she really wanted him to say yes, she thought there was a chance he'd say no (which would fit with her sense that he was pushing her away).

 

[miss_blue]

See, now that's where my interpretation of that is different. Yes, Lindsay rushed through the 'yeah, yeah she's fine' routine but I took that as her being nervous about asking him to lunch (which says something about where their 'relationship' was at that point ). Also, to me, Danny's offer of help was rushed as tho he was trying to deflect the conversation (also very telling). And we can't ignore the fact that while Lindsay may have wanted to eat out with Danny or get into his pants, Danny was busy eating in (Messer's famous omelette) and shagging the neighbour. :lol:

Still, why she should be nervous in asking Danny for dinner when Stella was in trouble, and she obviously showed concern in S2 when she was attacked. Why everything should be tied with her relationship with Danny? Why is everything that Lindsay does (wrong most of the times) is tied to Danny? IMO that is the biggest drawback of the character. She's not convincing, she doesn't have a life outside of Danny. I agree with PerfectAnomaly, Danny rushed the call only after Lindsay asked him to lunch.

You said that Danny was busy shagging Rikki. But wasn't in Snow Day Lindsay was busy being emo, and remembering the night when she shagged Danny, while everyone was in danger, especially Danny.

ETA: I don't see any relationship because sex on a pool table does not automatically lead to a relationship, and there was no canon proof of a relationship between the two.

Exactly, Lindsay was at Stella's while she made the call, and that makes me even more mad about the inconsistency of the character. Lindsay steps on my nerves, because everyone around her molded on her needs, Danny was her pet in S3, and her mistakes are forgiven because she's hurting. If I screw up at my job and I justify to my boss that it's because of a relationship, I will be sacked, and my job doesn't involve life-changing decisions.

 

[JellyBelly]

See, now that's where my interpretation of that is different. Yes, Lindsay rushed through the 'yeah, yeah she's fine' routine but I took that as her being nervous about asking him to lunch (which says something about where their 'relationship' was at that point ). Also, to me, Danny's offer of help was rushed as tho he was trying to deflect the conversation (also very telling). And we can't ignore the fact that while Lindsay may have wanted to eat out with Danny or get into his pants, Danny was busy eating in (Messer's famous omelette) and shagging the neighbour. :lol:

Still, why she should be nervous in asking Danny for dinner when Stella was in trouble, and she obviously showed concern in S2 when she was attacked. Why everything should be tied with her relationship with Danny? Why is everything that Lindsay does (wrong most of the times) is tied to Danny? IMO that is the biggest drawback of the character. She's not convincing, she doesn't have a life outside of Danny. I agree with PerfectAnomaly, Danny rushed the call only after Lindsay asked him to lunch.

You said that Danny was busy shagging Rikki. But wasn't in Snow Day Lindsay was busy being emo, and remembering the night when she shagged Danny, while everyone was in danger, especially Danny.

I was being ironic re. my comment about Danny and Rikki, hence this --> :lol: at the end of my comment. It just made me laugh that people were talking about Lindsay being self-centred, wanting to get into his pants while Stella was in 'trouble' yet it was Danny who was getting a little somethin', somethin', again while Stella was in 'trouble'. Not that I expected Danny to go rushing to Stella's side, because obviously she was handling it at that point. And I am NOT saying I thought Danny was selfish, disingenuous or showing any such kind of disregard for Stella by being with Rikki, that's not what my comment was about.

Still, I don't get the whole 'self centred' Lindsay routine. But, I respectfully appreciate all of your views on the subject, hence this little debate that has the power to intrigue me re. our differing views and opinions.

As for Lindsay remembering shagging Danny while he was in danger, well she didn't know about that at the time so it would be hard to call her selfish for that wouldn't it?

 

[miss_blue]

I see her as selfish because of her actions in the past. In S2, Manhattan Manhunt was the beginning. In Heroes, while the team just found out that Aiden was dead, she was fishing for information about her from Hawkes and Stella like she could return from the dead and steal Danny away. Then, the whole S3 was full of selfishness.Love Run Cold, Oedipus Hex, Silent Night, The Lying Game, Sleight out of Hand, Snow Day, Boo, Child's Play, Right Next Door (and I'm talking about the Monologue of Doom) and Like Water for Murder. There are many examples besides those, but I can't remember the name of the episodes.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

As for Lindsay not showing genuine concern for Stella, she'd been working the case so had no reason at that point to suddenly express concern for Stella., she would have already seen her and would have known Stella was okay (not great but okay).

I'd buy that if Flack, Mac and Adam, who were all working the case as well, hadn't taken the time to show concern for Stella even though they could see she was okay. Lindsay not showing any concern didn't make sense based on her reaction in "All Access."

 

[eveninstarz14]

Just a quick question, I am really curious to see why you think Lindsay is considered to be selfish in Sleight Out of Hand. I just want to hear your side, I have my own version and it would be interesting to see why you think that.

 

[Faylinn]

Ok, now that "Admissions" has aired on the west coast...

DEAD FISH EYES AGAIN GRAAAAAH! :brickwall: