Why Angell must GO
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Springmoon
CSI Level Two
She hasn't been in any episodes yet this season but will be, if I understand correctly. I cannot wait.
She is a great actress and her chemistry with Flack is subtle yet palpable. Her relationship with Danny is sincere yet in the background. I love the work she has done on the show so far and I hope she is in many many episodes to come.
I don't understand: there is no real evidence of her lack of chemistry with the cast, or perhaps I've missed something somewhere? Just saying she is bad doesn't quite change my opinion of her. The scene where she was able to talk to Danny about Ruben (last season) was so touching to me. She reached out to him in a moment that could easily have been very inappropriate, but it worked because it established that they are friends beyond seeing each other occasionally outside of work.
Her and Flack together made my liver quiver. It was hawt without being tawdry.
She is a great actress and her chemistry with Flack is subtle yet palpable. Her relationship with Danny is sincere yet in the background. I love the work she has done on the show so far and I hope she is in many many episodes to come.
I don't understand: there is no real evidence of her lack of chemistry with the cast, or perhaps I've missed something somewhere? Just saying she is bad doesn't quite change my opinion of her. The scene where she was able to talk to Danny about Ruben (last season) was so touching to me. She reached out to him in a moment that could easily have been very inappropriate, but it worked because it established that they are friends beyond seeing each other occasionally outside of work.
Her and Flack together made my liver quiver. It was hawt without being tawdry.
csimania19
Rookie
i don't think angell should go. she brings a little something to the show.
and plus, flack would be dead if it weren't for her. lol. :lol:
and plus, flack would be dead if it weren't for her. lol. :lol:
PerfectAnomaly
Resident Smart Ass
Has Angell even been in season 5 so far?I think it's a bit premature to make any comments about her role this season (if the reason the thread was bumped was due to spoilers).
As for previous appearances - I think she has great chemistry with everybody, and she's a spunky, kickass detective who can hold her own opposite suspects and the rest of the cast. Her romantic chemistry with Flack is great, and while I hope they take things slow as far as that is concerned, I think Emmanuelle and Eddie are good actors who will do good things with whatever they get.
She hasn't gotten much individual development, but she has only been in a handful of episodes per season - she's hardly going to have as much development as the main cast members. I'm intrigued by the character and hope to see her more and to learn more about her.
I agree with everything you said. It would suck out loud if they reduce her character to a love interest for Flack. I'm just speculating and don't know for sure if they will. And I do know that even if she is reduced to that she will at least knock it out of the park performance wise. I think she has great chemistry with Danny, Flack, Stella, Mac and even Hawkes even though they haven't been in that many scenes together. I don't recall any scenes with Lindsay but Anna Belknap doesn't have chemistry with anyone but Mac and maybe Hawkes, so I wouldn't hold out that she'd be able to compare to Angell.
As far as not knowing anything about her, we really don't know too much about a few regular characters. We know Adam's father was a bully and he dated a suicide girl. We know Hawkes was a child prodigy who started as a surgeon and moved to the ME's office before becoming a CSI. We know Lindsay is from Montana and she survived a horrible crime when she was a teenager. We know Angell's dad was a cop and she has four brothers. Considering two of the four characters I mentioned have always been regulars with Adam just now becoming a regular I don't see that Angell has no development, especially since she's only recurring at this point.
I think she's a smart, strong take no bullshit woman who can hold her own with suspects as well as all of the men with whom she works. It's nice to have another kick ass female character on the show besides Stella.
I find it interesting that the reasons Angell must go are pretty much the same things people have been saying about why Lindsay must go, only without anything to back it up. I also find it interesting that it's great and wonderful for Lindsay and Danny to hook up and work together but not OK for Flack and Angell to hook up because they work together.
ETA: I'm slow - nice post, PA, particularly the bits about her chemistry with the cast and the fact that even if she and Flack hook up, the actors will undoubtedly do it justice. I wouldn't want her to be reduced to a love interest, but even now I don't think that's all she is, even with her limited appearances (although I have gnashed my teeth at the Flack/Angell stuff before, admittedly ).
). I'm interested to know more about her father being a cop - that could be an interesting storyline somewhere down the road.
At this point, I don't think there's any risk of her overtaking Flack. She's only in a limited number of episodes, and Flack's still the main guy.
Honestly, the comments about lack of chemistry and romantic attachments and whatnot remind me of all the stuff some of us have been saying about Lindsay for years. It's all subjective, and luckily for me, it doesn't seem that Angell is going anywhere at this point in time.
).Definitely. She fits well with the others - she doesn't clash with anybody, and she gets along in a way that makes it obvious they all know and are comfortable with each other. I can easily see her going out to get a beer with the guys (and gals
). I'm interested to know more about her father being a cop - that could be an interesting storyline somewhere down the road.At this point, I don't think there's any risk of her overtaking Flack. She's only in a limited number of episodes, and Flack's still the main guy.
Besides, all Peter Lenkov said was that it's possible she could become a regular. He didn't indicate that it was in the cards or that they were even thinking about it. He said they love Emmanuelle and her work on the show, and then he confirmed that she has some episodes coming up. That's it. It's hardly a signed contract. AJ had to work longer to get one, so I doubt they'll just hand her one.
AJ had to work longer to get one, so I doubt they'll just hand her one.Honestly, the comments about lack of chemistry and romantic attachments and whatnot remind me of all the stuff some of us have been saying about Lindsay for years. It's all subjective, and luckily for me, it doesn't seem that Angell is going anywhere at this point in time.
addictedtoSpeed
Judge
Faylinn said:Honestly, the comments about lack of chemistry and romantic attachments and whatnot remind me of all the stuff some of us have been saying about Lindsay for years. It's all subjective, and luckily for me, it doesn't seem that Angell is going anywhere at this point in time.
Wait, so it's ok to say all that about Lindsay but not about Angell?
What's with the double standard?
I'm not saying it's not okay to say it about Angell, I was simply making a comparison and pointing out that it's all subjective. Some people think Lindsay lacks chemistry with the rest of the cast, some apparently think Angell does, etc. It's nothing personal.
PerfectAnomaly
Resident Smart Ass
Faylinn said:Honestly, the comments about lack of chemistry and romantic attachments and whatnot remind me of all the stuff some of us have been saying about Lindsay for years. It's all subjective, and luckily for me, it doesn't seem that Angell is going anywhere at this point in time.
Wait, so it's ok to say all that about Lindsay but not about Angell?
She never said it wasn't OK. She (and I) said the comments are pretty much all the same ones used by other people for Lindsay. And there's nothing, no specific examples or clarifications, there to back up what is being said about Angell. It just seems a bit convenient that all of the comments about why Angell must go mirror the reasons some feel Lindsay must go.
Half
CSI Level Two
Faylinn said:Honestly, the comments about lack of chemistry and romantic attachments and whatnot remind me of all the stuff some of us have been saying about Lindsay for years. It's all subjective, and luckily for me, it doesn't seem that Angell is going anywhere at this point in time.
Wait, so it's ok to say all that about Lindsay but not about Angell?
I think the poster was saying that lack of chemistry is an opinion. Some find a lot where others find none. It's just a point of view. There's a parallel between what has been said about Lindsay and Angell.
Personally, I like Angell. She was in season three and four enough before the possible relationship between her and Flack was brought up to not be considered a ship-only character. While she hasn't necessarily done anything major, she's still been a part of the show. And I think she's done a good job. Her interactions work, and I do think that there is chemistry between her and Flack if TPTB ever decided to go down that road. This is all IMO.
I, too, would be interested in specific scenes/examples of why Angell should go or doesn't have chemistry with the rest of the team. The Why Lindsay Must Go thread is full of very specific examples, not just "she has no chemistry with the team and shouldn't be on the show." Arguments are always stronger with examples.
Radical618
Coroner
I'm a Lindsay fan, and even I can see why there would be a Lindsay hating thread, but an angell hating thread? I suppose I would just need evidence to see why she's no good, like Top said. I don't even think she's built up enough as a character to really know if she works or doesn't!
Why should people have to give specific examples of why they dont think she has chemistry with the rest of the cast? Like you said, chemistry is subjective. We see what we want to see.
Just like you think Anna is not a great actress, there are those people who think she is. So in turn, you might think Emanuelle is the best thing since sliced bread, some cant stand her. Who really cares. Its a matter of personal opinion.
I can see the point of some people here though, in regards to Angell the character. It matters not if she is recurring , if she is just there to be Flacks love interest and not to be developed in her own right, how does that make her any better than Lindsay? I mean she has been on the show for two and a bit seasons, and now suddenly there is apparently this thing between her and Flack. I mean isn't the norm here, if we dont see it on screen, it doesnt happen. We have seen 3 flirting scenes tops. So doesnt it seem a little rushed. Honestly I think there is a little thing called double standards going on here.
Tell me in the 2 and a bit seasons she has been there, what do we know about her apart from her father is a cop?
Then we have TPTB saying "we are going to play up her chemistry with Flack". hmmm. Interesting. Nothing about any other storyline for her.
And as for her and Danny. I have seen nothing that suggests they are friends out side of work. That covo betwen Danny and Angell, I saw as one collegue being concerned about another. No more no less. But hey. Thats just my PO.
Oh and to the Lindsay fan above. Please explain what you mean about understanding why there is a Lindsay hating thread? IMO there really shouldn't be any hating threads here.
I understand critisism, but having a seperate thread for why certain characters must go, I dont understand. Not when critisim can be expressed in the episode threads or reviews. Anyone care to explain?
Just like you think Anna is not a great actress, there are those people who think she is. So in turn, you might think Emanuelle is the best thing since sliced bread, some cant stand her. Who really cares. Its a matter of personal opinion.
I can see the point of some people here though, in regards to Angell the character. It matters not if she is recurring , if she is just there to be Flacks love interest and not to be developed in her own right, how does that make her any better than Lindsay? I mean she has been on the show for two and a bit seasons, and now suddenly there is apparently this thing between her and Flack. I mean isn't the norm here, if we dont see it on screen, it doesnt happen. We have seen 3 flirting scenes tops. So doesnt it seem a little rushed. Honestly I think there is a little thing called double standards going on here.
Tell me in the 2 and a bit seasons she has been there, what do we know about her apart from her father is a cop?
Then we have TPTB saying "we are going to play up her chemistry with Flack". hmmm. Interesting. Nothing about any other storyline for her.
And as for her and Danny. I have seen nothing that suggests they are friends out side of work. That covo betwen Danny and Angell, I saw as one collegue being concerned about another. No more no less. But hey. Thats just my PO.
Oh and to the Lindsay fan above. Please explain what you mean about understanding why there is a Lindsay hating thread? IMO there really shouldn't be any hating threads here.
I understand critisism, but having a seperate thread for why certain characters must go, I dont understand. Not when critisim can be expressed in the episode threads or reviews. Anyone care to explain?
Examples are what bolster an argument. It's all of course subjective because opinions aren't facts, but it looks pretty weak to just say "this character sucks" and not even be able to come up with a scene or a character trait to back that up.
Exactly, and that's completely fine. It just helps to say, you know, why since this is a discussion board.
Because if it's on topic for the show and there are arguments backing it up, it's a valid topic for this forum. If the Why Lindsay Must Go thread was just a bunch of posts saying "Lindsay sucks," it wouldn't exist. But that thread and this one exist because we allow both positive and negative opinions about the show here.
Let's get back on topic, please.
imaguestage
Dead on Arrival
I think the suggestion for actual examples was done to create a conversation/debate instead of people just saying "I like her!/I don't like her!" You can't really discuss anything if those are the only posts.
I think it does matter if she is recurring. Lindsay was created to be a main cast member from the beginning. Angell was created as merely a recurring character to come in and work the secondary cases when needed. HUGE difference. Recurring characters can have the sole purpose of being a love interest on a crime show. If a main character's sole purpose is to be a love interest on a crime show, that is a problem.
You point out that she has been on the show for two seasons...that equals two years she has known Flack. That is the EXACT same amount of time it took for Danny and Lindsay to hook up...was that rushed?
Also, I don't get what you mean about not happening if it is not onscreen. If you are referring to them having an interest in each other, you yourself pointed out that there have been three flirting scenes onscreen. They set it up last year that there might be something going on between them. People noticed way back then...hell, Angell point blank asked Flack if he was hitting on her.
I think there might be a bit of a double standard going on but I don't think it's coming from the people you think it is. You are putting development demands/expectations that belong on a main character on a recurring character. That't the double standard I see here.
Sure, there isn't much to know about her besides her father is a cop and she has four older brothers. That's probably because she's a recurring character which means less screentime and less development. It also could be because TPTB aren't the greatest when it comes to character development. Do we really know that much more about Hawkes? He's been there since the beginning and we don't know much about him other than why he left the hospital for the morgue. And since this seems to keep being brought back to Lindsay, what do we know about her aside from the fact that her friends were killed when she was a kid? She likes Danny. Anything else? Bueller?
How does adding a few more flirting scenes equal a storyline? Once again you are assuming that playing up her chemistry equals the two of them running off and getting married and have tons of babies. It is possible that it will merely be more flirting, a la Danny and Lindsay in season two.
After all, with Danny and Lindsay having a baby, the will they?/won't they? tension is gone. It's all going to be about raising the kid and TPTB need to get another will they?/won't they? couple on there. ALL the CSI shows have one of those couples and it looks like Flack and Angell are being set up for that now that Danny and Lindsay have the baby.
Colleagues have relationships with each other. No one said anything about Danny and Angell being best buds. If you saw that Angell was concerned about Danny then that equals her having a sincere relationship with him. Again, relationship doesn't equal friendship/dating. It is two people relating to one another, which we have seen Angell and Danny do since she came onscreen.
PerfectAnomaly
Resident Smart Ass
Most of what is posted on here is a matter of personal opinion. If you don't care, why are you even posting here? Discussions are better if people supply reasons for their opinions. To be brutally honest, in this case not backing up opinions and using the same reasons as what's in the WLMG thread comes off as "payback" for negative things said about Lindsay as a character. Most - not all - of the people who've posted negative things about Lindsay in the WLMG threads are people who like Angell. People who've posted negative things in here about Angell are for the most part the same people who defend Lindsay. Without examples/specific reasons of why people want Angell gone it makes their motivation look questionable.
The fact that she's recurring alone makes her a better candidate for a love interest character. She's not on the show that much so it's not shoved down people's throats like DL has been. Also, there is actual romantic chemistry between Eddie and Emmanuelle and Emmanuelle is a far better actress than Anna, so those things also make Angell better than Lindsay.
We've seen them flirt from the first episode they appeared on screen together. We can't say what is going to happen from there. Yes, we can speculate that TPTB are going to go past the flirting stage with them this season but we don't know that for sure. As of yet there is no proof they are going to rush things between them. Also, if Flack/Angell seems rushed then DL is going at warp speed. We haven't seen enough interaction between DL to validate what TPTB is trying to tell us about their relationship. So to say FA is rushed and DL isn't is a double standard.
We know she has four brothers and she is an NYPD Detective. Lindsay is on her fourth season and all we know about her is she's from Montana, she survived a tragedy when she was a teenager and she's supposedly Danny's "girlfriend." Considering Lindsay is a main character and Angell is not we should know a hell of a lot more about Lindsay than we do Angell and the truth is we don't.
They've shared friendly banter with each other and Angell showed concern for Danny when she didn't have to say anything. To me that shows they're friends or at least friendly co-workers. They don't have to have a friendship outside of work to be friends and have a good relationship.
Wait. You're asking someone to explain their opinion. I thought that everyone has their own opinion and no one cares about any body else's opinions?
If there shouldn't be any individual threads criticizing the actors/characters, then there shouldn't be any individual threads praising them either. This should just turn into a board for reviews and nothing else. You can't have one side without the other and still claim to be a discussion board. As far as I know the only reason the WLMG threads exist anyway is because some Lindsay fans couldn't handle actual discussion with opposing viewpoints in the Anna/Lindsay thread, so a separate thread was created so people who don't like Anna/Lindsay would be able to speak their minds like everyone else.