Why Angell must GO

[csi_miami_babe]

I really don't like Angell at all. I think she's a very stuck up person. Sometimes when I'm watching her with Flack I feel like smacking her. Last night my mom and I were talking about it and she said she liked her on New York more than Two and a Half Men. I do not agree. I told my mom, I'd rather see her on Charlie, than on Flack. With all the other stuff coming up, they really shouldn't put these two together.

 

[Faylinn]

For the record, and to no one in particular:

IMDb (which can be inaccurate) has Emmanuelle listed in 15 episodes of CSI:NY.

7 in season 3
8 in season 4
------------
15 out of 45 for the two seasons, that's only 1/3 of the total episodes.

I don't think she and Flack even had any scenes together until "Commuted Sentences" (correct me if I'm wrong), which is also the first time that they flirted (their cute little scene in the car where Flack tried out his game ). "Commuted Sentences" was her ninth appearance on the show. I don't think they worked together in "Buzzkill" or "Happily Never After", nor did they share any scenes that I recall (again, correct me if I'm wrong because obviously my memory may not be accurate). They had two flirtatious scenes in "All in the Family" that I remember, but nothing in "Playing With Matches" if memory serves me correctly. In "DOA for a Day", Flack flirted with her about the kevlar vest. I know they had a few scenes in "Taxi", but I can't recall if they actually flirted or anything.

That's 15 episodes so far, approximately 3 or 4 with flirting, all of which took place in her second season on the show (and which works out to between 20 and 25% of her total episodes). That's not a majority, and it's really only about 1/2 of the episodes she had since the flirting itself was initiated.

So whatever they do from here on out, thus far the character has hardly been defined solely by her flirtation and chemistry with Flack.

As for what we know about her: we know she was a new detective at the start of season 3 but that she had already been working with the team (enough so that Danny and Hawkes felt comfortable teasing her). We know that she is quick and can think fast ("Playing with Matches", "Taxi"). We know that she doesn't take shit from suspects (including when they try to flirt with her) and that she can hold her own, just like one of the boys. We know that she has a cop father and four brothers. We know that she can and does bring the snark and the sarcasm, but she's not disrespectful to the CSIs. We know that she seems dismissive of her beauty ("Commuted Sentences"). We know that she can and has gone undercover, and she doesn't seem uncomfortable with it - that tells me she knows what she's capable of. We know that she will make a point of offering comfort to a coworker ("Happily Never After") without talking to them like a child.

So no, we don't know everything, or even a lot, but in 15 episodes we have learned some things about Angell. I think she has good chemistry with the other members of the cast and that she fits nicely with the team. She can hold her own as the only detective on a case, and she also works well when she and Flack have cases together. She provides a different dynamic with the CSIs than Flack provides, and I am interested to see what else they have in store for the character.

As a potential romantic interest, she's a good character and has value of her own so that the romance would hopefully not be the only thing that defines her (and she already had some definition before that became relevant anyway). If the writers decided to limit her role to that, the actress would do well and as a recurring character it would be a reasonable decision to make (unlike turning a series regular into nothing more than a romantic interest), whether I would like the limits or not. However, if the writers don't limit her role to that, whether they continue to pursue a romantic relationship between her and Flack or not, there are interesting places for the character to go.

All in all, I would say the benefits of keeping Angell around far outweigh the reasons for her to go. So to go back to the original purpose of the thread itself: I disagree that Angell must go. In fact, I'd be very disappointed if she did.

csi_miami_babe said:

Last night my mom and I were talking about it and she said she liked her on New York more than Two and a Half Men. I do not agree. I told my mom, I'd rather see her on Charlie, than on Flack.

But those are two completely different characters and two completely different shows. Angell isn't Mia and vice versa.

 

[Radical618]

Okay I'm the Lindsay fan, and the reason why I brought up the fact why I can understand that there's a hating thread is because there is enough known about that character to tell if you like her or don't liker her. There are ways she was introduced people don't and do like, there are things about her people do or don't like, there are ways she acts proplr don't and do like. Like I said before, with Angell, we don't know enough about her to tell what there is to like or dislike. Sure you can have a gut feeling, but is there really that much evidence you can use to explain why you don't like her? Like Fay said, she's only been in 15 episodes for a few minutes each, and we watch her be a detective, and only once (if I'm correct) do we here anything about her life. I'm not here to say your opinion of her is wrong, you're certainly entitled to feel anyway you wish abut her. I just don't think such a minor character in the scheme of the show is up for a hate thread.

 

[CSINYGal88]

Nah, Jess is great! I think Flack and Her would make a GREAT couple, don't you agree?

She's got the snark and she's witty. :thumbsup:

 

[Half]

Comparing Angell to Lindsay is like comparing Wendy to Catherine on the Vegas recipe. They're completely different cases. Like what has been said, Angell is a recurring character. It's perfectly okay to not know much about her. How much do we know about the recurring characters on the other CSIs? It's not much. All in all, I think it's unfair to say that Angell needs to leave the show because there's a possible romance with another character. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I'm getting from the anti-Angell posts. D/L is a major debate in the CSI:NY fandom, and that's regular/regular. If Lindsay didn't leave because of a possible romance with another character, why should Angell? Recurring characters are the easiest to work relationships with, so why is F/A such a necessarily bad thing? I know this isn't an F/A thread, but it's a relevant concept.

I have to agree with Radical here. I don't think it's worth worrying about Angell until we see more of her: enough to get a better look at how she's going to be this season. After all, we haven't seen her since Taxi if my memory serves me right.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

Wow, I'm late to this one.

Based on what we've seen of Angell so far, I don't really see any evidence of why she should leave the show. No, we don't know much about her--but are we supposed to right now? As others have said, she has only been on the show for what, maybe 15 episodes total? And even then, with her limited screen time as a reoccuring cast member, it makes sense that we wouldn't know much about her yet as we do other cast members. I know people have pointed out the comparison with how much we know about Angell compared to Lindsay, and it does ring true. Lindsay's been on the show as a full time cast member from the start of season two, and besides her relationship with Danny, her home state, and the death of her friends in her past, what do we really know about her?

Chemistry is relative--people have different opinions on whether or not certain characters have overwhelming chemistry with others. IMO, I think Angell has good chemistry with everyone she has shared screen time with, most of all with Flack. Whether or not TPTB decide to turn this into a relationship, that will still stand at any point I see them together. I hope that they don't reduce her character to Flack's girlfriend, since (as others have pointed out before, since I'm so late to post on this thread) I believe she has a lot of potential on the show, whether it be as a reoccuring character or full time. I'd rather wait and see what the writers can do with her as the seasons go on, rather than write her off now as an uneeded character (which I wholly believe she isn't.)



On another note....

I'm a hockey goalie. When I struggle in a game/practice people can't automatically assume I'll be like that every single time.

High five, dl_shipper34!:bolian: I thought I was the only one here. :lol:

 

[jolein]

I`m not really a Angell fan but I don`t see the need in an Angell must go thread.
We don`t know that much of her.
Besides,I never saw a Maka must go thread,so.

 

[Flackette]

I agree that Angell has to go. Nothing against my fellow Canuck, Emmanuelle Vaugier. Pretty girl but she always has the blankest stare on her face.

 

[roximonoxide]

Along with CSINYFREAK30, I feel a little late in joining this conversation, but I'll throw my two cents in this.

Personally, I don't think Emmanuelle Vaugier is a particularly good actress. Not that she's wretched mind you, she's tolerable. More tolerable than most, in fact, though some lines coming from her have been utterly cringe-worthy I haven't dissected them nearly enough to determine whether it just seemed like a horribly BAD line, or if it was her delivery, so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Also, she's rather a rare occurrence on the show so it's hard to guage her acting ability from that and I must admit some of my criticism is coming from other bodies of work I've seen her in and been none too impressed with, but those were older and there is good chance she's matured as an actor.

Like some of you already mentioned it'll be a sad thing if her sole purpose as a character is to serve Flack in ways a blow-up doll could, and I hope they don't reduce her to that.

If I have one problem with the character and it's casting is not something I would blame on Emmanuelle Vaugier but rather the franchise. As much as I like a character like Calleigh Duquesne, feisty, sharp witted and silver tongued female cop I wish they'd stop at one or two. After that I find myself struggling to accept these young woman, all of 100lbs soaking wet, as NYPD cops. It's one thing when they're a CSI, they could probably ride a long ways on the excuse that they're not REALLY cops they're scientists first, but Angell is a homicide detective. An officer through and through, and as an officer she would have to pass the same fitness qualifications the male officers would. Looking at Emmanuelle Vaugier I'm not buying it.

I think the most believable female cop on any of the CSI shows thus far is Sophia Curtis, hands down. If they're going to continue introducing a female detective for every one or two male cops, I'd like to see more of them look the part.

I'm not anti-Angell. I'm not singing her praises either, I suppose I'm pretty indifferent, but depending where they go with her character in the future I could be swayed.

 

[PepeBee]

I go hot and cold on Angell. Sometimes I like her, sometimes, I don't. I guess it depends on how her character is written per episode but I'd like to think I'm pretty neutral about her.

It's just quiet unnerving if her story/character should revolve around Flack since the writers threw in that kiss in "Dead Inside". I do wish that there's more to her than being Flack's partner/love interest/whatever you call it. Because I fear that the character development would be as shallow as Lindsay clinging on to Danny for a storyline. And then what, she'll get pregnant as well. I hope not.

Hopefully, there's more to her than being a sidekick if they want to develop her and focus more interest on her. So in the end, even if I'm indifferent to her character, with good writing and acting to go with it, she might work. But that's yet to be seen.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I think most of the female cops on CSI are unrealistic because of the way they dress and how sexy and glamorous they are. If that's a reason to get rid of Angell then Stella, Catherine, Calleigh and anyone else I'm forgetting should go as well. I don't see how Angell can be singled out as the one who exceeds the limit in that type of character, especially since she's only recurring.

 

[calleighspeedle]

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with Angell, she is a great addition to the show and is not in the least boring. I also agree that she brings the old witty Danny to the surface, she reminds me of Aiden in a way kind of streetwise. I hope we get to see more of her in the future.:thumbsup:

 

[Faylinn]

As a fan of Emmanuelle, I'll readily admit that she's not the best actress out there - I feel that she's certainly capable of holding her own on NY, but I would easily admit that Melina, for example, is a better actress. That being said, I do still like her - enough so to watch a crappy SciFi movie for her and another actor (who I also think is good but not fantastic).

As a fan of Angell, I think the character could use some improvement to make her more generally likable. I enjoy her snark and her sometimes deadpan delivery - I can see why people might not be a fan (that type of delivery can be love-it-or-hate-it for viewers), but I think the character has redeeming characteristics that should be shown more. I think she has interesting dynamics with various characters that we don't see nearly enough of. The problem is that she's a recurring character and therefore doesn't have anywhere near the same screentime as a character like Lindsay or Hawkes - both of whom haven't gotten enough individual development despite being in every episode (with a few minor exceptions due to Anna's first pregnancy of course).

 

[roximonoxide]

By no means did I mean Angell's character should be singled out as being this overly glamorized hollywood version of a female officer. CSI as well as other crime dramas across the board are guilty of that. I just find I'm LESS inclined to buy it when they're strictly cops and not CSI's first, which I suppose is why I can roll my eyes but just as soon forget that Calleigh and Stella fit that profile too. When they're straight up detectives I expect to see some truly tough women and I haven't seen that from anyone in the entire franchise save Sophia Curtis.

Also, I think that as actors Emily Procter and Melina Kanakaredes despite their similar physical attributes, better embody the personalities I would expect from a woman in their field. Things like Calleigh's weapons proficiency and subtly caustic rhetoric make her more believable to me. We've seen what she's got to back herself up in the field and I don't feel like I've seen anything but bravado from Angell yet. Which isn't to say we won't once the character is better developed, I just hope they give her that chance.

I wasn't suggesting that this point alone was enough to warrant getting rid of Angell. I'd rather she stuck around and they gave her amply opportunity to become a truly worth while character. I do quite like the way shes interacted with the others so far. For the short time she's been with us I've enjoyed seeing her dynamic with the team.

Either way, I have to say, I wish they'd ALL stop wearing the bloody 3 inch heels to work. For the love of God, no one is chasing down suspects in those things.

 

[Top41]

I've never seen anything wrong with Emmanuelle's acting, but I've only ever seen her in CSI: NY and Smallville. I've always liked her as an actress. As for the women on the shows being unrealistic...yeah, in the way they dress, sure. And those heels are nutty, but eh, it's a TV show and that's what you're going to get. I like Angell and think/hope no matter what happens between her and Flack, she's not going to just be reduced to his love interest.